How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 Love should be respected unclouded by di   [ Page: 1  2  ]
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Love should be respected unclouded by discrimination such as Prop 8

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
rhia_5779
Senior Member
since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


0 posted 11-28-2008 02:34 AM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

Prop 8 is was, and always will be, unconstitutional and wrongfully discriminatory. Love is precious and not something we have the right to judge others for having. Love sees past gender, race, color, religion and is a gift rather than hating on others for having it. Prop 8 is wrong and is taking away rights!
I wrote this to a Yes on 8 website and would be interested in discussing points with someone- civilly without slurs or insults. I don't know what peoples views about it are on here.


ear Yes on 8 people,

I'm a fifteen year old girl who was raised in tolerance and
acceptance. All my life I've been taught to listen and to learn and
that some things aren't something people can control. Race, gender,what family one is born to , and sexual orientation. You believe some people choose- tell me why? Why someone chooses to go to school and get spit on- told they are inferior-hated- discriminated against-
bullied- told they aren't good enough- thrown out of their religion or community ? Why would someone choose that? I am who I am and I've learned to live with that and learned how to live with how others are. I won't condemn someone for something they do anything about because that is wrong as I was raised to believe.

Also- in the 60s there were laws preventing people of mixed races from marrying- that was discrimination and something I'm ashamed to know my country had a part in. HOw is this any different?
Discrimination is discrimination no matter who you are discriminating against- blacks, whites, latinos, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, Christians,Jews, or Muslims.

Its fine for you to have your own beliefs but don't take away others
rights for them. Also Prop 8 doesn't affect the schools because 1) in all the years I've been a student I've never taken a class on marriage and never heard of it being offered and 2) anything related to sex or sexual orientation is under the command of parents- if they don't want their children learning it they are allowed to pull their kids out of the class.

Please don't think you are helping the schools! You want to protect kids? Like me? From what though- I have friends and family members who are lesbian and bisexuals  and gay and believe me it wasn't an easy transition into finding themselves. They are all good people- they believe in doing the right thing- sticking up to ones morals and accepting responsibility. That's something I've learned from them- especially about staying true to oneself - is that what I need to be protected from?

God created marriage to be between man and woman?
1) It isn't relevant to humanity since humans are more than capable of having kids without marriage and plenty do and whatever your personal beliefs on that are you don't have the right to condemn them for it.
2) Some of us don't believe in your god and  or don't believe in God. I personally don't after being raised Jewish and Catholic - I've made a conscious choice to be non religious and that one religion isn't right for me.  Marriage means something different to everyone- to me it means to people who love each other being legally recognized. Love is so hard to find and its one of those things you dream about and think about as a teenager. Love isn't lust- its not peer pressure, its something different. Why would you condemn someone for loving someone when almost no one gets to decide who they love? I"m a fifteen year old teenager and believe me - you can want to not feel something but you still feel it- love doesn't follow any rules.

If marriage is sacred , do you mean a 55 hr marriage is sacred? Or
marriages where the wives are beaten half to death is sacred?
Marriages where little girls lose their innocence and hope forever
because their mother married someone who was a bad person because her community says being an unmarried mother is wrong.   I don't know what you judge as sacred but to me- children terrified of everything because they see their father beat their mother is not sacred- girls who grow up beaten and scarred only able to expect the same cycle to continue is certainly not sacred. Marriage is what it is- it should be people who love each other not relying on gender because a straight marriage is very capable of not being sacred.

Stop judging, stop hating, stop discriminating!
A proud member of GSA who believes in doing the right thing which is why she is speaking up right now.  I'm fifteen but my eyes are open and I'm willing to accept people who are different than me- Are you?
This discrimination is wrong- no one has the right to take away rights from someone else- regardless of what they believe! Everyone is entitled to a voice but not when it silences others.
moonbeam
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 12-24-2005
Posts 2038


1 posted 11-28-2008 12:59 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Rhia

I’m not sure I’m the one to discuss this with you because I agree with almost everything you say.   And you said it very well, especially the points about love not being lust etc.  This is an issue I feel strongly about as my sister is in a same sex relationship not based on a physical relationship yet of a “romantic” nature, if I can put it that way.  In the UK at least I feel that the gay agenda has been hijacked by rather left wing politically driven personalities who tend to flaunt the sexual side of such relationships almost as a challenge to the conservative, and usually religiously driven, section of the community.  This in my view has done the cause of gay people no good at all.  

Nevertheless that is absolutely no reason to deny same sex couples the right to express their union formally in a marriage ceremony.  I suppose I’d have to say that if the religious mainstream wanted to deny gay people the right to marry in their churches then that is their prerogative.  I happen to think it’s mean and wrong, but I guess that at the end of the day, if their interpretation is that the bible says gay marriage is wrong then they should be able to prevent such marriage in god’s “house”.

But aside from that I can see absolutely no reason at all for religious people, or anyone else, to seek to impose their cruel and selfish beliefs on consenting adults in this matter.   Gay people should be allowed to marry in a civil setting and to benefit from all the civil, social and economic rights that straight married couples benefit from.

As to whether Prop8 is “unconstitutional” I don’t know.  Denise might be able to help here?

Thanks for a thoughtful post.

M
rhia_5779
Senior Member
since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


2 posted 11-28-2008 01:41 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

It is actually because according to the equal protection clause, everyone is allowed equal protection under the law. Marriage is a right as it is a way many find happiness and taking it a way is wrong.
SEA
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 01-18-2000
Posts 24152
with you


3 posted 11-28-2008 02:31 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

honestly? I think it's sad. I have no idea why everyone is so freaked out by it....I'm fine with it and really, I think its not up to me or a court,and for sure not a church!! I think it is up to two consenting adults. I think if they love each other and are in a loving committed relationship, they should be allowed to marry.
moonbeam
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 12-24-2005
Posts 2038


4 posted 11-28-2008 03:35 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Ahh I think I see.  I recently read this on someone's blog:

"The California Supreme Court can NOT overturn Prop 8.  It is now part of the California Constitution.  However, the US Supreme Court CAN find that the CA constitution violates the US Constitution's Equal Protection clause.

And someday they will do just that."

Is that a correct statement of the position?
rhia_5779
Senior Member
since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


5 posted 11-28-2008 07:31 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

Agreed- marriage should be open to anyone who loves each other. I am not religions so what the churches are going to do I don't really have a point to stand on there- I think if someone is christian and gay or lesbian they shouldn't lose their rights to being married.
Thats what I meant that the U.S constitution talks about equal protection
freeand2sexy
Senior Member
since 09-12-2008
Posts 703
CA, USA


6 posted 11-28-2008 10:44 PM       View Profile for freeand2sexy   Email freeand2sexy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit freeand2sexy's Home Page   View IP for freeand2sexy

Wow this is a very strong topic for me and i'm kinda scared how you may view me by what i'm about to say, but i want to show you my point of view

I'm only 16 and i happen to live in california, i grew up in a Christian family, but i also happen to be in a same sex relationship, and believe it or not i was all for prop 8.

Yeah some ppl even friends at school viewed me as a hypocrite, but the truth is even though i was for prop 8 didn't mean that i had problems with gays or lesbians or bisexual, i respect everyones beliefs, decision, or whatever.

But, marriage has all ways been defined as between a man and a woman, since Adam and Eve, and i don't think its right to change that for everyone else. Yes it has a  lot to do with religion and its all ways going to be that way.

What gives us the right to change this for everyone else?




I love pancakes!!!
rhia_5779
Senior Member
since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


7 posted 11-29-2008 01:25 AM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

Wow this is a very strong topic for me and i'm kinda scared how you may view me by what i'm about to say, but i want to show you my point of view
YOu have every right to your beliefs.

I'm only 16 and i happen to live in california, i grew up in a Christian family, but i also happen to be in a same sex relationship, and believe it or not i was all for prop 8.

Yeah some ppl even friends at school viewed me as a hypocrite, but the truth is even though i was for prop 8 didn't mean that i had problems with gays or lesbians or bisexual, i respect everyones beliefs, decision, or whatever.

But, marriage has all ways been defined as between a man and a woman, since Adam and Eve, and i don't think its right to change that for everyone else. Yes it has a  lot to do with religion and its all ways going to be that way.

Yes, but we aren't changing the religious definition which can stay the way it wants- we are just changing it so people who love each other can be together.  Christianity is not the religion that governs our country and so it doesn't have a place in the laws- it doesn't harm christians to  let gays and lesbians marry. Marriage wasn't around when Adam and Eve were- and marriage is a ceremony but is not crucial to having kids.

What gives us the right to change this for everyone else?
What gives Christianity to take rights from those who want to be married?
You can choose to not be but others may want to.
freeand2sexy
Senior Member
since 09-12-2008
Posts 703
CA, USA


8 posted 11-29-2008 03:47 AM       View Profile for freeand2sexy   Email freeand2sexy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit freeand2sexy's Home Page   View IP for freeand2sexy

Its not just Christianity, not even religion. there are those who are not Christian or anything for that matter, that don't believe in same sex marriage.

quote:
I think if someone is christian and gay or lesbian they shouldn't lose their rights to being married.
Thats what I meant that the U.S constitution talks about equal protection

What gives Christianity to take rights from those who want to be married?


Prop 8 didn't take any rights away from Gays etc. Tho i don't believe in same sex marriage, i think they should have that same rights, 'equal protection', thats why i'm all for civil unions.

I love pancakes!!!

rhia_5779
Senior Member
since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


9 posted 11-29-2008 01:13 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

Yea it did take rights away- marriage is a right and it took that away. I'm curious how do you define marriage verus  civil unions?
freeand2sexy
Senior Member
since 09-12-2008
Posts 703
CA, USA


10 posted 11-29-2008 02:20 PM       View Profile for freeand2sexy   Email freeand2sexy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit freeand2sexy's Home Page   View IP for freeand2sexy

Civil unions are legally recognized unions similar to marraige. The way i view it is they're the same as same sex marraige, just without calling it so.

I love pancakes!!!
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


11 posted 11-29-2008 02:51 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

quote:
Its not just Christianity, not even religion. there are those who are not Christian or anything for that matter, that don't believe in same sex marriage.


Likewise, there are still people that don't believe in treating people of different races equally in certain things.  But that does not make it right.  Not believing in something does not justify discriminating against people based on race, nor does it do so for gender.

freeand2sexy
Senior Member
since 09-12-2008
Posts 703
CA, USA


12 posted 11-29-2008 03:13 PM       View Profile for freeand2sexy   Email freeand2sexy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit freeand2sexy's Home Page   View IP for freeand2sexy

Well Essorant,

You have a good point, no one should be discriminated against because of race, gender, age, etc

But let me ask you this, where do we draw the line? What's next, a 20 year old, marrying a 12 year old, if thats what they want, why shouldn't we let them, isnt that discrimination against people because of age?

I think the bigger point for me is to respect what has been a tradition for so long. i've seen and understand both sides of this, i've been on both sides , and what i see, is that both sides are right to a certain extent. Gays should have the same rights, they should have equal protection, but why should the definition of marriage change for those who view it in the traditional way, Believe it or not it would affect ppl and what they believe. i think that we should be respectful of those beliefs and fight for equal protection, but not to change what marriage means.


I love pancakes!!!
rhia_5779
Senior Member
since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


13 posted 11-29-2008 03:47 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

Well Essorant,

You have a good point, no one should be discriminated against because of race, gender, age, etc

But let me ask you this, where do we draw the line? What's next, a 20 year old, marrying a 12 year old, if thats what they want, why shouldn't we let them, isnt that discrimination against people because of age?

But theres a difference between discriminating on gender when the two people are at least 18 and following the other laws regarding it and bending them.  Two people who are adults and can sign a legal contract should be allowed to marry if they love each other. The laws in the 60s where inter racial marriages were wrong and so is Prop 8.,
Civil unions don't have the same rights as marriage- its not like we would be telling any of you t hat your marriage is invalid so its not fair for people to tell gays that they can't marry or call it marriage. OUr country is secular so the bible doesn't really apply

I think the bigger point for me is to respect what has been a tradition for so long.
No one is disrespecting it by saying that it needs to coexist with tolerance. We want to open it up but we aren't disrespecting it. WE are being intolerant of intolerance, and trying to secure equal rights.

i've seen and understand both sides of this, i've been on both sides , and what i see, is that both sides are right to a certain extent.
Well its wrongful discrimination if you don't believe that being gay is a choice- which its not., If being gay is believed to be a choice, which its still not btw, then many people are anti it because of their religion and background and they are still allowed to have their beliefs but are not allowed to take rights because of it. Marriage affects the two people marrying- it doesn't harm anyone else.

Gays should have the same rights, they should have equal protection, but why should the definition of marriage change for those who view it in the traditional way, Believe it or not it would affect ppl and what they believe. i think that we should be respectful of those beliefs and fight for equal protection, but not to change what marriage means.
So what about gays who want to be married? WE can't respect their wishes?
There are people who say inter racial marriages are wrong- should we respect their beliefs by reinstating laws that prevent those.
How is race different than gender?

I love pancakes!!!
freeand2sexy
Senior Member
since 09-12-2008
Posts 703
CA, USA


14 posted 11-29-2008 04:35 PM       View Profile for freeand2sexy   Email freeand2sexy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit freeand2sexy's Home Page   View IP for freeand2sexy

quote:
Civil unions don't have the same rights as marriage


Thats why we should fight to change civil unions so that it gives the same rights as marriage

quote:
OUr country is secular so the bible doesn't really apply


Our coutries law were based on the Bible, so yes it does apply. Religion itself does apply, it applies to everything.

quote:
We want to open it up but we aren't disrespecting it.


By changing something you do disrespect it. For example my parents don't respect some of my beliefs, so they tried to change it. (they failed by the way)

quote:
If being gay is believed to be a choice, which its still not btw, then many people are anti it because of their religion and background and they are still allowed to have their beliefs but are not allowed to take rights because of it. Marriage affects the two people marrying- it doesn't harm anyone else.


I understand what you are saying, i truely do and i respect what you believe because i know it comes from your heart, as do my beliefs, but you can't truely understand what i believe unless you understand both sides

quote:
So what about gays who want to be married? WE can't respect their wishes?


I respect what poeple want, but i now  realize that in life its not just about you want, there's a whole bigger picture.


I love pancakes!!!
moonbeam
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 12-24-2005
Posts 2038


15 posted 11-29-2008 05:01 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Rhia

Are you saying that churches/religious movements should be forced by law to allow same sex marriages?

For a start churches are effectively a "special interest group" and I am not sure that it's wise to legislate to force special interest groups to make their facilities available to everyone.  Secondly if I was wanting to get married to someone of the same sex and I knew that christians (for instance) were very opposed to such unions, the very last place I'd want to go would be one of their churches.

And let's face it, what are these christians, or any other religion for that matter, actually offering.  Some guy in black or white robes or whatever acting as a conduit to god, and an assurance that god has blessed the union.  I think it's sad for christian same sex couples who truly believe the mumbo jumbo to miss out, but for the remaining majority I suspect a church wedding mainly adds romance and not much else - most rational people aren't going to believe the patent falsity that just because a marriage isn't conducted by some vicar, minister or father, they are somehow unblessed by god.  It's surely got to be the case that any union based upon true and deep love is going to be blessed whether it's conducted by Donald Duck or an Archbishop and whether it's in a cowshed or in Westminster Abbey.

So my view is that provided the union is in all respects granted the same status in law as a church marriage I can't see the problem.  

And Freeand2sexy

I think you are attaching far too much importance to the concepts of "tradition" and "religion".

In the former case, I am all for respecting tradition PROVIDED THAT tradition has a logical relevance to the modern day.  For instance it was traditional to import African people to act as slaves, but no-one would today argue that such a practice should be re-started.  

I think what you need to ask yourself when you invoke the argument "it's traditional" is: "is there any other reason APART from historic custom to continue this practise?".  If the answer to that question is "no" then I think there is some serious doubt as to whether the practice is still relevant to today.  

In the latter case you need to consider what you mean by "religion".  There are many many religions out there now.  Are you going to pick christianity and say that the populace of the US should abide by christian based principles and no others?  Sure that used to be the case.  When the Mayflower landed, and for some time subsequently I believe the Puritan influence was strong.  But over time this has been diluted by multicultural influxes and divergences of thought to the point where I don't think you can seriously argue that the whole of the US should be, and is, "governed" by the "rules" of christianity.

When you say "religion applies to everything" I am therefore struggling to understand where you are coming from?

freeand2sexy
Senior Member
since 09-12-2008
Posts 703
CA, USA


16 posted 11-29-2008 05:33 PM       View Profile for freeand2sexy   Email freeand2sexy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit freeand2sexy's Home Page   View IP for freeand2sexy

quote:
When you say "religion applies to everything" I am therefore struggling to understand where you are coming from?


Religion is what you believe, i'm saying it applies to everything, because it can't be disregarded. Whether is Christianiy, satanism, or atheism, religion is always going to be apart of life.

I love pancakes!!!

freeand2sexy
Senior Member
since 09-12-2008
Posts 703
CA, USA


17 posted 11-29-2008 05:38 PM       View Profile for freeand2sexy   Email freeand2sexy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit freeand2sexy's Home Page   View IP for freeand2sexy

Even though this is a big topic for me because i am in a same sex relationship, i really think there are bigger issues than this. Tho i'm sure ppl will disgree. i jus think our focus, whether gay, bi, or straight, should be on the most important issues. I respect everyones beliefs but again, i see both sides, and think the best solution would be a compromise.

I love pancakes!!!

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


18 posted 11-29-2008 06:26 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Hi -- One thing that is missing from this so far is the fact that marriage is not solely a sacrament within the context of a religion. I got married by a judge.  Religious belief or disbelief had nothing to do with it me or at least hundreds of thousands of other married people.  It's not a civil union, it's a legal marriage without interference or objection from the religious.

The issue is a legal one.  Some groups of people try to make it a moral one.  That's their opionion, they're entitled to it, and it doesn't count for those who disagree.

The extention of same sex marriage with it's legal ramifications, of which there are many, and the older one gets, the more there are, to the notion that it will lead to 20 year olds marrying 12 year olds is almost as silly as the thought that taking a drink leads to heroin addiction, except, it already happens in wacko religious cults.  I put the emphasis on wacko.

My suggestion is that "civil unions" are just another form of discrimination, and in the end, it's nobody's business except the two people who want to get married for whatever reason, and the judge or minister who agrees to honor their wishes.

What could it possibly matter to anyone else?

Best, Jimbeaux  
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


19 posted 11-29-2008 07:56 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Freeand2sexy,

quote:
But let me ask you this, where do we draw the line? What's next, a 20 year old, marrying a 12 year old, if thats what they want, why shouldn't we let them, isnt that discrimination against people because of age?


Yes, it is discrimination, but not wrongful discrimination.  For age, unlike gender and race, at certain points (extremes of youth and old age being the most distinct) implies levels of mental and physical maturity and ability to understand and do things.  A very young child is not mentally or bodily as developed and mature or understanding as a twenty year old generally is.  Such is not found between genders and races.  A man and a woman are not more physically or mentally devoloped because they are man and woman instead of man and man or woman and woman.  Nor is a race because it is this race instead of that race.  That is why age has points at which it is a virtue to discriminate, because  we simply aren't either able at some points or likely enough at others to to deal with some things conciously, responsiblely, or very understandingly.  Gender however does not imply such things.  Nor does marriage show that it needs a specific gender-combination in order to be marriage.  For sharing sacred vows, sharing a celebration of love, a special bond, etc. all these things may be done as well in any gender combination, just as in any race combination.


Moonbeam

quote:
Are you saying that churches/religious movements should be forced by law to allow same sex marriages?



If you don't mind me answering, I would say they ought to be.  It should not be much different, I believe, from beginning a business of my own.  If I run a store, should I have the right not to sell to homosexuals or to people of a certain race?  No.  Not at all.  In like wise religion, should not be able wrongly to discriminate against people in this way.  You would not accept the government giving right to religions to discriminate against people of a particular race would you?  Why then to discriminate against particular gender (s)?   On the other hand, I am not against things such as allboy schools or allgirl schools, because it does not deny either gender education, nor does it deny the choice of a school that has boys and girls together.  Instead it gives people another choice, rather than denying people the choice.  Another example is a Chinese food restaurant.  I am not against Chinese people only being hired at Chinese food restaurants, because there is a cultural connection and family aspect involved. And that does not deny other people the ability to run restaurants, participating in the same thing, but respects a certain cultural "area".   Since there is so much room and freedom for people elsewheres, there is no need to demand Chinese restaurants to hire people that are not Chinese.  But many hire other peoples anyway, of course.

[This message has been edited by Essorant (11-29-2008 08:52 PM).]

Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


20 posted 11-29-2008 08:48 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
If I run a store, should I have the right not to sell to homosexuals or to people of a certain race?


Based on your reasoning if you ran a store you’d have the right to sell or not to sell to whoever you wanted to, after all denying someone the right to buy at your store doesn’t deny them the right to go shopping.

quote:
On the other hand, I am not against things such as allboy schools or allgirl schools, because it does not deny either gender education


To my mind there’s a simple answer to the conundrum of marital status, remove the financial incentives and legal status that married couples enjoy and treat every couple, regardless of gender, as human beings who just happen to live together.

With all the legal and financial discrimination out of the way the couples could exchange whatever personal vows they want to in any type of ceremony they like in whatever Church, Mosque, Synagogue, Temple, Shrine or Ale house that’ll take them.

Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


21 posted 11-29-2008 09:25 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Grinch,

I don't think you understand my reasoning then.  I think when the general right is established, there are some reasonable exceptions that may be within the general right, when it is like a luxury of choice.  Both genders have equal the right to education.  But they should also have the right to some special atmospheres, when those are wellmeaning and respectful.  An allboy school for example is not based on a doctrine that education should only be among boys, but it is based on something that may be respected such as a special educational atmosphere where people shall be far less likely to be distracted by sexual inclinations and sexual relationships and the many problems that often come from them.  And personally I find that comes true, especially in contrast with the kind behaviour we see among many young people that attend highschools now a days.  But in any case it is a special exception to a general right that is already there, and that is not about denying the other gender the equal right.  


  

Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


22 posted 11-29-2008 09:53 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Ess,

So if you had an education shop that only sold education to girls and an education shop that only sold education to boys that would be ok because there are also shops that sell education to anyone?

Got it.

Education shops can discriminate - sorry  I thought your point was that shops couldn’t discriminate.

My bad.

freeand2sexy
Senior Member
since 09-12-2008
Posts 703
CA, USA


23 posted 11-29-2008 10:08 PM       View Profile for freeand2sexy   Email freeand2sexy   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit freeand2sexy's Home Page   View IP for freeand2sexy

quote:
It should not be much different, I believe, from beginning a business of my own.


There is a difference, because a church is not a business. A business is formed to make profit and a church is not.


I love pancakes!!!
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


24 posted 11-29-2008 10:48 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Grinch

Yes I did say so because I was implying wrongful discrimination, a discrimination that is disrespectful.   A shop not "selling" education to a man because it thinks that education should only be given to a woman is unreasonable and disrespectful discrimination.  It is sexism and no one should be wrongly discriminated against in such a way.  

But a shop not "selling" education to a man because it is an exception to a general majority of shops that already sell to men and women, and because it thinks that both men and women deserve the further luxury to be able to have the choice of special enviroments, such as allboy and allgirl schools, has reasonable grounds and is not disrespecting other people's rights.  It is a reasonable and respectful discrimination within already acknowledging and respecting that both deserve and have a right to education.
rhia_5779 will be notified of replies
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> Love should be respected unclouded by di   [ Page: 1  2  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors