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Not a Neener Neener Neener Post.

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oceanvu2
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0 posted 11-04-2008 09:19 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Hi all!  Despite having threatened to put up a post which simply said, "Neener, Neener,Neener,"
more seriously, I hope those newly elected recieve the support and respect they are entitlted to.

Best, Jimbeaux  

[This message has been edited by oceanvu2 (11-05-2008 12:43 PM).]

JenniferMaxwell
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1 posted 11-04-2008 10:23 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Ditto
serenity blaze
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2 posted 11-05-2008 03:42 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

voting a YES.



Balladeer
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3 posted 11-05-2008 07:50 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Obama has become president on pure rhetoric. He has talked the talk and now it will soon be time to walk the walk. I give him the respect for making it this far and I will watch with an unprejudiced eye what happens when he assumes command.

He has my best wishes at heart, although I will fear the worst and hope for the best. I do not disrespect a man simply because he belongs to an opposing party. If he succeeds, America succeeds and my applause will be as loud as anyone else's.

We live in interesting times....
oceanvu2
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4 posted 11-05-2008 01:05 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Aw, c'mon, Mike.  Obama became President on sheeer more votes than McCain.  McCain didn't/doesn't have a speech impediment; one can't say he lost beause he couldn't make a decent speech.  He was amBUSHed.  A case of terrible timing.  So it goes, or went.

These ARE interesting times, unimaginable as few as 15 years ago.  I think our generation, yours and mine, just got poked in the eye.  So, we'll see what the new kids, the 35-50 year olds can do.  It was going to be their turn sooner or later, Republican or Democrat, and that time appears to be now.

The US is an astounding country, full of contradictions, inconsistencies, and it's share of flaws, but ulimately magnificent.

I follow the path of a major religion.  It just isn't a Judeo/Christian/Islamic one.  But I can still say with sincerity, God bless us one and all!

Best, Jimbeaux
Mistletoe Angel
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5 posted 11-05-2008 02:56 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

This is not intended as a "neener-neener-neener" post, but rather my perception as to why McCain's campaign failed to gain traction and why Obama's succeeded.

McCain's campaign struggled because their message was inconsistent and seen to most as a negative-toned one, spending much more time attacking his opponent than explaining in detail what he would do to resolve our economic crisis, among other things. In addition, Sarah Palin's lack of qualifications in the eyes of most Americans hindered McCain's campaign, with the polls even suggesting it hurt his campaign more than George W. Bush.

For months before yesterday voters were saying unanimously that they thought McCain was spending too much time attacking his opponent. Yet what did the McCain campaign, the Republican National Committee and their allied 527's do in the final three days? They were playing the Jeremiah Wright card, despite the fact that the public had already been exposed heavily to this issue and it did not sink Obama's campaign. ABC News first broke the story, NOT the Clinton campaign, and more than 3,000 news stories had been published during April on his controversial remarks. For one week in late April Obama dipped slightly in the polls due to the Wright controversy, but by the following week in early May his popularity had returned to its previous level.

There's a reason why, despite his opponents tirelessly pushing that, William Ayers, Tony Rezko, Michael Pfleger, "Bittergate", Rashid Khalidi, his canceled appearance to Landstuhl Army Hospital, Obama's opting out from public financing, ACORN, not wearing lapel pins or crossing his heart during the National Anthem, his birth certificate, about being a Muslim when he's clearly a Christian (even if he was a Muslim, who cares? ), his "lipstick" comment, accusations of him being some rabid socialist, comments he made about charging coal companies for greenhouse gas emissions, falsehoods about him taxing everyone with 401(k)s and complaining about him flying over to Hawaii to visit his now-late grandmother during the final days of the campaign...............Obama's approval rating is higher than it has ever been. Because while his campaign certainly wasn't free of going negative (he had a good share of that as well), regardless of how much you agreed or disagreed with him on the issues or had reservations about his lack of experience and not having enough substance to what he says, the prominent message and demeanor of his campaign was seen as optimistic, uplifting, visionary, forward-looking, cooperative.........qualities that traditionally move electors.

I reluctantly voted Kerry in 2004 and I can certainly see why he lost nonetheless. Because he came across as too elitist, thus unconvincing and unpersuasive, to the populace that he would lift the country and move it forward. I voted for Obama this cycle and while I have some criticisms of him, I nonetheless felt comfortable voting for him and while everything may certainly prove to be wishful thinking in the end, I think there's potential he can be a very successful president. I gauge that perception on how he's able to often keep a cool, disciplined temperament in a tense environment, but at the same time he's unmistakably strong-willed, but in a more pragmatic sense.

Regardless, we'll begin to have an idea about three months or so going into his first term if he more or less lives up to his soaring rhetoric or not. As John Wayne once said: "I didn't vote for him, but he's my president, and I hope he does a good job.", when he learned that John F. Kennedy had edged Richard Nixon in the 1960 presidential election. I certainly offered Bush the chance to prove himself despite my concerns at the time that he had stolen the 2000 election, and at one point, following September 11th, I truly believed his leadership was strong and commendable, speaking from the megaphone at Ground Zero saying that he could hear us, and that we would be hearing from those responsible as soon as possible and, at least from what we knew at the time, continuing to govern this country in a bi-partisan, engaging manner. Sadly he betrayed the trust of most Americans, which is something I'm not going to go through here again, and most will look back and believe he did not do a good job, but the point is I ignored his partisanship after having been elected, I put aside my prejudices, and gave him the chance to prove himself.........and I would hope everyone whose candidate didn't win this election cycle allows this president-elect the chance to prove himself in the first months of his presidency............just as I would have done had John McCain been elected, regardless of the accusations I've tossed at him these past eighteen months............or had Bob Barr had elected, or Ralph Nader, or Cynthia McKinney, or Mickey Mouse, etc.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Denise
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6 posted 11-05-2008 03:49 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Hi Noah,

The first to break the Jeremaih Wright story was Sean Hannity of Fox News. Check it out when you get a chance. He broke the story sometime in 2007.
threadbear
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7 posted 11-05-2008 05:18 PM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

Today, I am sad.  Sad that John Murtha was re-elected due to voter stupidity.  Sad that another man whose main accomplishment was that he gave a good speech in the DNC is now our sitting President.  I am still not sold at all on his 'credentials.'  He has a very unimpressive resume that is no better or even different in substance than any other politician with limited Senate experience.  I am sold on the fact that his group of limited friends is as circumspect of any political circle I've ever seen.  I am scared that the very thing that the public railed against:  one party running the government into the ground, is EXACTLY what they elected!!  This country has a history of running the best when there is a balance of power IN power.

   Yeah, I'm a bit disappointed in the voting populace.  They were sold a 'Presidency' by someone who is argueably the best salesman in the US.  He told them everything they wanted to hear - and they bought it, hook line and sinker.  He promised them untold riches and entitlements during a major economic crisis, and they bought it.   Obama's first year will be wrought with every manner of mooch with their palms out.

  I feel I haven't watched a politician run:  I saw a minister preaching hope; the political equivalent of Joel Osteen or Rick Warren.   I see a man who openly said: I will bring the troops home, now, no matter what; flip his position, ignore the success of the Surge, and will now take complete credit for the end-game which is all but over.  

   The best news of the war, only 13 casulties in the month of September, was sent to page 7A on USA Today a couple of weeks ago; briefly mentioned on newscasts, and then de-emphasized on purpose so Obama wouldn't look so stupid.  Every grizzly death was reported until Obama ran - now, the media can't even report the best news of the war on page 1.  

  I saw a candidate who didn't get a bit of bad press in his final month.  Even the occasional negative story was explained away immediately: not by his staff -no - the media did it for him, providing excuse after excuse and not running the same story twice.  Hell, they too eagerly ran the SNL tapes of Palin until my ears exploded, and that wasn't even real news.  

      I even feel a bit sorry for Hilary Clinton, the sacrificial pawn of the Democratic party who can kiss off any Presidential bid until at least 2012, and probably 2016.  She has been degendered by her own political party; good or bad, the reign of the Clintons is over for good.

   And now, the Democrats will effectively be able to repeal or enact any law they wish.  If that doesn't put some trepidation in your heart, then perhaps you didn't learn the lesson of the Republicans.

[This message has been edited by threadbear (11-05-2008 05:50 PM).]

Balladeer
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8 posted 11-05-2008 07:34 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I agree with you, Jimbeaux and i share your disappointment, Threadbear, about Murtha. It seems incredible that such a person would get re-elected.

Obama won the presidency for mainly four reasons...

He was the beneficiary of the overwhelming public disapproval of Bush

That is a given. Hillary or anyone else would have received it equally.

He was the beneficiary of the timing of the economic crisis

At the beginning of the campaign, Iraq and foreign policy were the top topics of the election. McCain held a clear advantage at that time. When Lincoln, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac exploded, the focus shifted to the economic side, which favored Obama.

He bribed the lower class to vote for him

He offered to give an immediate rebate to everyone, including over 40% of working Americans who do not pay income taxes. He basically said, "Vote for me and you've got a thousands bucks coming in the mail". Anyone care to debate that this was not enticing to the poor?

He ran a magnificent campaign financed by more money than any candidate had ever had

His campaign manager was a genius at his job, and, aided by unlimited funds, got the job done.

Those are the main four things I see. True, there are other intangibles. He's an excellent orator (as one senator said 'He could tell you to go to hell and make you look forward to the trip'), he has the ability to instill hope in people, and he broke the color barrier.

Will any if these things insure he will be a good or effective president? of course not, but they have served to give him a shot at it. Now it's up to him. As I said, I hope he does well because that would mean the country would also benefit.

Time will tell.
Huan Yi
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9 posted 11-05-2008 08:28 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


The one good thing
for the Boomers
is that most of us
will be dead
or beyond caring . . .


.
threadbear
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10 posted 11-05-2008 08:49 PM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

One month ago, a radio talk show host went out and did a man-on-the-street interview informal poll.  He asked 50 random people who supported Obama to list one platform that they liked about him, and to mention one specific of it.

ZERO for 50 was the result.  They said: hope, change, he's not Bush.  But not one could enuciate a single specific about the Obama platform.    

Obama is THE candy-coated candidate-elect of our generation.  Now, everybody wants a lick.  
Ron
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11 posted 11-05-2008 10:16 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

It's so nice to see America coming together again. I'm glad everyone has chosen to emulate the same class both candidates demonstrated Tuesday night.

(I'm guessing some of you guys didn't have to give out much candy this Halloween?)


Denise
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12 posted 11-06-2008 07:57 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I don't see it happening anytime soon, Ron.

I personally can't "come together' with those of a socialist bent and with those vehemently intolerant of views other than their own. What I can do is be civil with them, as much as I can be, but that's about it.

And that's quite a bit more than they gave conservatives and President Bush over the past eight years.

I still can't fathom why more that half the country voted for someone they know next to nothing about. He's a mystery. Nobody knows anything about him other than a flimsy sketch, and his associations with extreme American-hating radicals. And yet it didn't seem to matter to the majority of the people.

I think they have gotten what they deserve. It's too bad the rest of us will be along for the painful ride.

JenniferMaxwell
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13 posted 11-06-2008 08:10 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Sorry, Jim, couldn't resist:

Party’s over for Palin: GOP goes to collect leftovers from her shopping spree.»
After controversy erupted over Gov. Sarah Palin’s (R-AK) largely unauthorized spending spree, Palin announced that she would no longer be wearing the expensive clothing: “Those clothes, they are not my property. … I’m not taking them with me.” However, it seems that a few items did make it back to Alaska with her, and the GOP is coming to reclaim them:

Sarah Palin left the national stage Wednesday, but the controversy over her role on the ticket flared as aides to John McCain disclosed new details about her expensive wardrobe purchases and revealed that a Republican Party lawyer would be dispatched to Alaska to inventory and retrieve the clothes still in her possession.

A new story in Newsweek reveals that Palin “spent ‘tens of thousands’ more than the reported $150,000, and that $20,000 to $40,000 went to buy clothes for her husband.”
Grinch
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14 posted 11-06-2008 08:19 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
I personally can't "come together' with those of a socialist bent and with those vehemently intolerant of views other than their own.


You’re seem to either be saying that you can’t come together with yourself or that socialists are anti-social - I’m not quite sure which.

Denise
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15 posted 11-06-2008 08:25 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

A Palin aide said: "Governor Palin was not directing staffers to put anything on their personal credit cards, and anything that staffers put on their credit cards has been reimbursed, like an expense. Nasty and false accusations following a defeat say more about the person who made them than they do about Governor Palin."
http://www.newsweek.com/id/167581

Both sides of the story would be considered fair and balanced, Jen. And I wouldn't give credence to unnamed sources. It makes it kind of difficult to question them about their comments.
JenniferMaxwell
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16 posted 11-06-2008 08:43 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Fair and balanced, hmmmm. How about this from fair and balanced FOX News correspondent Carl Cameron:

Cameron also said she (Palin) was unaware who the members of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) were, or that the United States - along with Canada and Mexico - was one of them.

"We're told by folks that she didn't know what countries were in NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement, that being Canada, the US, and Mexico," Cameron told presenter Shepard Smith.

"I wish I could have told you more at the time but all of it was put off the record until after the election.

"There was great concern in the McCain campaign that Sarah Palin lack the degree of knowledgeability necessary to be a running mate, a vice president, and a heartbeat away from the presidency."

The Alaskan Governor's big spend on clothes emerged publicly last month, but McCain's aides also said that she spent "thousands more" than the reported $US150,000 on clothes during the campaign, much to the shock of the donor that footed the bill, the US magazine Newsweek reported.

An angry aide, quoted in Newsweek, described the shopping spree as "Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast", and predicted that the truth would eventually come out when the Republican Party audits its books.

Newsweek reported that Palin was told she could buy three suits and hire a stylist, but that she instead started shopping for her family at top clothing stores, and also used the credit cards of low-level staffers to do some of the shopping.

A McCain aide reportedly told the magazine that $US20,000 to $US40,000 was spent by Palin on her husband's clothes.

Cameron also said the Alaskan Governor started to "go rogue" early on, as shown by her first disastrous CBS interview with Katie Couric in September.

"She got very angry at staff, thought that she was mishandled, was particularly angry about the way the Katie Couric interview went," he said.

The moment was then satirised by Tina Fey on Saturday Night Live in a video clip watched by millions.

"She didn't accept preparation for that interview and the aides say that that was part of the problem. And there were times that she was hard to control emotionally - there's talk of temper tantrums at bad news clippings," he said.

Cameron said there was a "truncated" vetting process for Palin's selection, after McCain's camp decided the then-shortlist was inadequate to "change the game" in the race for the presidency.

So they opted instead for a candidate who reportedly once addressed McCain aides wearing nothing but a towel and another on her wet hair, Newsweek reported.

The relationship between McCain and Palin was further strained after she was recorded falling for a prank call by two Canadian comedians pretending to be French president Nicolas Sarkozy.

"Her staff didn't know the name of the French President," Sebastien Trudel told The Globe and Mail. "They asked us to spell it."

McCain and Palin both left Phoenix in separate cars yesterday but Palin, for her part, "bears no ill-will to staff", Cameron said.
Denise
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17 posted 11-06-2008 08:57 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

As I said, Jen, the source was unnamed.
JenniferMaxwell
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18 posted 11-06-2008 09:28 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Unnamed for sure, that is until the first tell all book comes out. That's gonna be a doozy!


Balladeer
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19 posted 11-07-2008 12:48 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

The day after the election, the stock market fropped almost 500 points, setting a record for the biggest drop the day after any election in history. In the two days following the election, the market is down almost 1000 points, the biggest two day drop since the crash of 1986. Main Street may be cheering Obama. Wall Street isn't, neither are businesses or investors. dick Morris states the main reason is the capital gains increase that Obama will implement. People are selling now before the rate almost doubles. He predicts it will continue to tank, with the exception of a day or so when speculators take advantage of low stock prices and it will drop until and unless Obama rescinds his plan to raise capital gains taxes. Is he right? It will be easy to see....keep watching the big board.
Grinch
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20 posted 11-07-2008 05:00 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Starting early Mike?
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum6/HTML/001742.html#000054

Balladeer
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21 posted 11-07-2008 08:53 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

a little too cryptic for me this morning, Grinch..

I've done nothing but post the facts that the market has gone down drastically in the past two days (which it has), that it has set records (which it has), and that Dick Morris opines that it is partially due to the capital gains taxes, which are due to almost double. I have no idea if he is right or not but it has a plausibility to it and the days to come will be interesting.

Whatever you think I may be "starting" is beyond me. I've not trashed Obama. The rise in capital gains taxes is his policy. Any connection between them and the movement of the market will become obvious in the days ahead.

Undoubtedly, if McCain had been elected and the market nose-dived for the next two days, your tune would be a lot different. Don't wrack your brain, trying to read what isn't there. As you folks like to say, the proof will be in the pudding.

[This message has been edited by Balladeer (11-07-2008 10:06 AM).]

oceanvu2
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22 posted 11-08-2008 08:09 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Chocolate pudding!  What a MARVELOUS idea! Jiminey Cricket, even some of our European friends seem to think so.  They seem to think that the US has somehow reasserted it's core values on a grand scale.

Of course, the proof will be in the pudding, it always is.  

Can we take a poll?  How many people think we the taxpayers, will float the Big Three auto makers to the tune of billions under George the (lame) Duck?

I'm thinking we don't need to send Big Three executives to Japan to learn how to build cars for the 21st Century.  We could just send them to Tennessee, where the Japanese build cars for the 21st century.  Cheaper in the long run.

And yes, I would hate to see the US auto industry fail, but then, it already HAS failed.  Twice!  And this is the taxpayer's fault?

Here's a real question to which I do not know the answer:  When we hear talk of the US auto industry losses, is that a reflection of business in the US market only, or does it include global operations where they make more efficient and popular cars under other marques?  I dunno.  Things are so international, as is fine, I just can't figure out if there is a difference between Divisional profit/loss and global profit/loss.  Nobody is screaming about this yet, so maybe it's a non-issue, or a quiet issue.

Anyway, whatever happens, it's clearly going to be all radical leftist socialist anarchist and not yet President Obama's fault.  Glory forbid any good things should happen -- they won't be good enough.

Some folks seem to have forgotten already under who's watch the stock market tanked, the real estate market collapsed, bank failures skyrocketed, the chief economist "goofed," retail sucks, and the unemploymnent rate is the highest in decades.

Oh, I forgot.  It's all Obama's fault.  Or his fellow travelers.  

Yeesh, if we just concede now that it's all the Democrat's fault, can we possibly get on to something else?

Best, Jimbeaux
Denise
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23 posted 11-08-2008 09:17 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

And just what would those core values be, that our European friends think have been reasserted in a big way, Jim? Maybe you or they could jot down a few here.

Denise
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24 posted 11-08-2008 11:07 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Are we to support and respect those who have stated they will bring us:

Redistribution of Wealth? You can call it Marxism, Socialism, Communism, "fair" or "patriotic", but you can't call it "American".

There is a difference between voluntarily sharing your peanut butter sandwich with a classmate and having it forcibly taken from you by the teacher and given to someone else. I'm so surprised that someone in the MSM didn't point that out to Obama since that subtlety seems to elude him.

Can someone tell me how someone who is currently paying 32% of their income in Federal income taxes (slated to go up to at least 41%) is not already paying their "fair share" over against those in the 15% bracket or the 10% or 0% brackets? And when you add in the Social Security, Medicare, state and local income taxes the higher level income earners are currently paying over 50% or more of their income in taxes. Why is it "fair" to take more from them and write a check to the people who pay 0% in Federal taxes?

Articial inflation of Electicity/Gas prices by the government to regulate our behavior?

Banning of incadescent light bulbs and probably anything else that is deemed by the government to be bad for the environment? I have a feeling that will be an ever-increasing list. So buy those lightbulbs now. They won't be on the shelves much longer.
  
Plans to Bankrupt the Coal Industry? That will go a long way to help Pennsylvania, Ohio, and West Virginia, won't it?

No off-shore drilling (at least not where the majority of the oil is located)?

No nuclear power plants?

A Civilian Securty Force funded at the same level as the military?

Civilan Youth Corps, required 50 hours service per year for middle school and high school students, 100 hours per year for college students?

A Classroom Corps, A Health Corps, A Clean Energy Corps, A Veterans Corps?

Nationalized Healthcare for everyone, including illegal aliens, judging by the number of people promised coverage?

How has government run health care been working in Europe and Canada? I've heard nightmare stories of waiting lists of 6 months or more, denial of life-saving coverage based on age, people having to sell their homes and/or coming to the U.S. to get the life-saving treatments they need. Is this the direction we want to go? I guess as we get older we will be hearing that it is our "duty to die".

Sex "education" beginning in kindergarten?  It remains to be seen whether parents will have an opt-out option as some schools have now in the older grades. It wouldn't surprise me if that option is taken away from parents, which would be a real shame for the parents who don't want their children exposed to it, but can't afford private school.

And last but not least we will see a return to partial birth abortion, the most tragic result of the recent election.

Support and respect? Nope, I can't seem to conjure up any.

And yeah, the economy tanked on Bush's watch, with a few months left to go in his term. But you left out the fact that he tried, in 2005, to reign in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, as did McCain in 2006, citing a coming catastrophe if they weren't. But Democrats in Congress blocked their efforts.


  
 
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