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Passions in Poetry

What Are Obama's Major Accomplishments?

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Bob K
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25 posted 10-29-2008 03:16 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Threadbear,

           You can afford a house, I cannot.

     The money that you should be paying in taxes to support our mutual enterprise is returned in large part to you because you can afford to buy the house.  You may in fact be paying less money than I am on a monthly basis but because my costs are higher I must live in a more run down, more dangerous part of the city, where the grocery costs are higher and where my children's education will be poorer.  I may in fact be working more hours per week than you do to earn my money.

     Your lifestyle is subsidized by the government to help it maintain a level of luxury.  My lifestyle is or may be subsidized by the government to prevent me from being a potentially large drain on the economy in case I lose my job.  The larger the corporate entity either of us work for, the more likely it will have some sort of governmental support, for example, an auto maker or a petrochemical company or a defense industry of some sort, especially in wartime.  It's possible that these industries or companies will get in trouble, but the larger they get the easier it is for them to bend governmental policy in their direction.

     The more money you or I have, the more easily we can afford to have people who will make sure that our annual tax bite is minimal.  Given what V.P. Cheney makes in total per year, do you really think he pays anything like the full bite on it?  Do you think there are a lot of folks percentage-wise in that bracket who do?

     In the case of drug research, how much of the drug research do you think is actually original drug research funded by the companies exclusively and how much of it is funded by government grants to university scientists working at University affiliated and hospital affiliated labs, paid for by you and me?

     What do you call the Government allowing the drug companies to set their own prices in dealing with the new elder care drug benefits when in the VA drug companies must bid for the right to sell those drugs to the government at the best possible prices?  That sounds like corporate welfare to me Threadbear.  Your dough supporting the lifestyles of the rich and infamous.

     When I have to fill out my income taxes, there aren't a lot of deductions I can take.  The more money I have, the more deductions are possible.  At the bottom of the heap, there's only the standard deduction, and a lot of people don't know enough to know they can often do better to itemize.  The government takes advantage of those folks because it can.  Toward the top of the heap, the government spent years paying people not to grow things.

     Man those folks had it rough.  They sure earned every penny they didn't make.

     But enough of this for now.  Nonsense it was their money.  They had the power to make sure the tax code got written the way it was, and they did it.  There's nothing righteous about it.

Sincerely, Bob Kaven


Bob K
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26 posted 10-29-2008 03:24 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K




By the way, as a writer, I want my work to be cited with credit given to me for having written it and to the publication in which it appeared for having published it.  If I allow it to appear without the citation, I may be in danger of losing control of it, I believe.  There's also the matter of moral responsibility of making sure that you are not taking credit for somebody else's work, and that somebody else's work gets the credit it deserves when you use it.  I think that is at least as important as the money issues involves.  Then there are the potential money issues involved.

     It is intellectual property.  If you take somebody else's property without permission, what's that boil down to?

     That's my take on the matter.
Balladeer
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27 posted 10-29-2008 05:26 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I did list the source, Bob. It's here....
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum6/HTML/001743-2.html
Bob K
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28 posted 10-29-2008 09:02 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Mike,

          Thanks, Mike, I appreciate that.  I do enjoy the cartoons and I think Mr. Ramirez's wit is biting and worthy.  Thank you for bringing him up.  I'll be looking for his stuff on my own.

All my best, Bob Kaven
threadbear
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29 posted 10-30-2008 12:53 AM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

Man, I'll be honest with you, Bob, on your last post.  It gave me a headache, bigtime.  It went everywhere at once, and nowhere in particular (humming Chuck Berry's 'No Particular Place to Go.)  This is not a cricitism; i just need some summary statement.  You kept saying 'you', and I didn't really know if you meant me, or some other 2nd person anonymous.  Just about all your assumptions about me were incorrect, if that was the gist.  

The company I worked for was very heavily regulated, with both state and federally mandated tax rates.  Our beloved government totally illegally even went so far as to break up my company into smaller entities and the country is much worse off and farther behind in years in technology because of it.  (that's a different story for another day)

Your statements that they didn't earn the money they made is, in my opinion, is not very accurate.  To say all the big companies don't earn their money, or should be disparaged or envied into some sort of private guilt is really reaching into some kind of extended hyperbole based on a false premise.

  "Nonsense, it was their money."  you wrote.
Wait a minute, they earned it!  Even with your premise, they will earn 100% of their money thru sale of goods or services UNTIL the government decides WHICH percentage (hi,low,moderate) to deduct from their gross profits.  It simply becomes a shell-game of what number they chose.  Irregardless, unless you are accusing all companies of overcharging, they earned the gross monetary amount.

I can't even begin to tell you how hard I had to work, how many jobs I had to work simultaneously, or refused government assistance when I could have taken a free check.  I was 40 before I bought my first new car, and it was a Saturn. Still have it! LOL

There's a great verse from  the Charlie Daniels Band that has sort of been my personal motto:

    "I ain't asking nobody for nothing
      If I can't get it on my own.
    If you don't like the way I'm livin'
    You just leave this long-haired country boy alone."

Guess what I am saying is: please don't make the false assumption that everyone (or even 'most') rich people didn't earn their money.  Yeah, I have my own business, but 99% of the people wouldn't have worked half as hard to get there or put in the hours.  

I'm not a big fan of the word 'fair' when it comes to 'fair shares.'  What's fair to someone who envies my wealth asking for their 'fair share' of it is far different than what 'fair share' means to me - who knows what it took to get there in b,s,& tears.

If you make the argument: but their NEED is greater!  Be careful, that's the chief tenet of Marxist philosophy.  
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." -Karl Marx
or as Wikipedia interprets the above statement:
"every person should contribute to society to the best of their ability and consume from society in proportion to their needs, regardless of how much they have contributed."

Nothing would annoy me more, seriously, than some able bodied person, not working, coming up to me and telling me I didn't pay enough, and they want their fair share of my income!

You see, to me, THAT would be theft.

I couldn't even write the word: GRR with enough R's!

Do you understand where I'm coming from, Bob?
Much obliged for your thoughts,
ThreadBear
rwood
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30 posted 10-30-2008 08:49 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

threadbear,

I hear you.

quote:
Nothing would annoy me more, seriously, than some able bodied person, not working, coming up to me and telling me I didn't pay enough, and they want their fair share of my income!


Many Americans are contributing to that mentality by allowing those able bodied adults to still live at home at the age of 30+ to play video games.

So we have some on top of the hill who are playing benefactor to those I've affectionately nicknamed "the people under the stairs."

My daughter calls them losers, she's 20 and having a hard time finding a date/boyfriend that's working and trying to make his own way too. She says so many young men are perfectly happy still living at home, taking money from mom and dad to take out a date!!

I wonder if this could be a factor in why so many Americans are having a tough time making it if they are still raising their adult children, and possibly their grandchildren, too. I don't know. I'm sure there are exceptions because it is tough to make it, but while I was in college, most of my fellow students still lived at home. At least they were trying to better themselves, but some resented "having to be in class" because their parents made them come or they'd take away their car. These students were 2O+ years old!

threadbear
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31 posted 10-30-2008 11:01 AM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

I hate to be such a stickler for honesty, but isn't ACORN the same as this?

Here are a group of people advocating that we, the working, should BUY HOUSES for the poor!

When will it stop?!  When every last dime has been removed from the corporation and tax payers pocket?

It used to be Affirmative Action was used to find jobs.  Heck, now folks just openly DEMAND that you pay for their lifestyle.  Has anyone contemplated the effect that the huge Hispanic contingent could have if THEY demand Affirmative-Action for their group?  It could, and probably WILL happen, soon.

Now you have people demanding a tax rebate when they don't pay any taxes, health care free, and housing that they can't pay for.  If that's not Marxist philosophy, I don't what it is then.  
JenniferMaxwell
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32 posted 10-30-2008 01:06 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Matthew 25:40
threadbear
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33 posted 10-30-2008 01:25 PM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

John 12:8

Jesus:  You always have the poor with you.

saying there will be poor, always.  It's a fact of life.  We can't legislate this fact of life away.  We can help them, but we can't fix the poor.  We also can't help them if they don't seek their own way out either.

The line between 'enabling someone detrimentily' and 'helping someone' is a thin one.  Some people say it's too much
others say it's too little.

Helping is still helping, and the amount of the help shouldn't be dictated by ANY government.
Jeff

[This message has been edited by threadbear (10-30-2008 03:16 PM).]

JenniferMaxwell
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34 posted 10-30-2008 02:06 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Just so you know, Jeff, I didn't say a word. It's not me you're arguing with, it's Jesus who spoke the words in Matthew 25:40 So erase my name in your post and type in Jesus instead. I wonder what His response might be...

Matthew 6:1-4

1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

[This message has been edited by JenniferMaxwell (10-30-2008 02:38 PM).]

threadbear
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35 posted 10-30-2008 02:18 PM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

That's cool, Jennifer, but I won't even presume to know what Jesus would say to me.  That would be blasphemy, pure and simple.

But I do know what my priest would say:  you tried, Jeff, to make a difference.  That's all anyone can ask of people with the power to help.

It's high time the Left got off their high horse about the 'Rich.'  That's what my post was all about.  The well-off aren't the demons Liberals profess they are in EVERY speech I hear nowadays.  It's sickening, wrong, and totally ignores their silent charity.
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36 posted 10-30-2008 06:22 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Obama gave a speech in Florida last night and, after the speech, some members of the audience were asked questions. When one black lady was asked why she was for Obama, she said, very happily, that she wouldn't have to pay mortgage payments or car payments any more. This was broadcast on tv!!!

Hopefully a lot of people saw it.....
serenity blaze
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37 posted 10-30-2008 06:40 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Oh Mike..

like if a lot of people saw it, then that would make it true...sigh, and with some careful editing...who knows?

I bought that with the same grain of salt I...nevermind. But wow, a two-for-one deal with one grain of salt. That should help the economy!

But speaking of salt? I came upon your mention of that accidentally...

since we're painting such a great big canvas with such broadstrokes--all this scripture quoting stirred a little tempest in my little pot head. ( )

If we refuse to follow the lead of our legacy from our founding fathers regarding seperation of church and state--can we just get rid of the word "taxes" and call it "tithing"?

Balladeer
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38 posted 10-30-2008 06:47 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

wow...the thing is broadcast for all to see and you suggest editing. I'm amazed at the lengths people will go to in order to not believe what they see.

Ok, I give and you win. This liberal press, which is so one-sided toward Obama the entire country is aware of it, takes interviews and go into the back room, edit them, and then go out and release them for public viewing, detrimental to Obama.

The only thing you show with such a comment, serenity gal, is that reason and logic have no place in this election. Facts are unimportant and people are so close-minded that even news reports are doctored if they portray something a particular side doesn't want to believe.

Go Obama.
Bob K
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39 posted 10-30-2008 07:04 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

Dear Threadbear,

           I don't know you.  I didn't know you actually had a house.  I didn't know you had a business.  Further, you don't know me.  While I don't have a house now, I have had and will probably have one again.  I could as well have turned the examples around, and probably should have to avoid the chance of stepping on toes, which was not my intention.

     You are apparently making assumptions about how I feel about the rich and their charity or lack of it.  I know rich folks who are charitable and deft enough about it so that most other folks know nothing about it.  Most of them have very little complaint to make about the poor and less fortunate because their viewpoint is more complex about the economic and social situation.  Usually they're pretty modest about how hard they've worked as well, even though I know how difficult things have been for them on occasion.  Usually they love the work they do.  At least the folks that I know.  They're about evenly divided between Democrats and Republicans, by the way.

     I'm not a Christian, but all these folks whether they are Christian or not seem to do naturally what the Christians call Bearing Witness to something kind and decent in human nature.  This doesn't mean they aren't human and can't be jerks on occasion; I'm not talking about saints.

     I have limited sympathy for the rich because they're rich in the same way that the poor have no inherent nobility because of their poverty.  But to the poor I have an additional obligation.  While the poor may always be with us, I suspect that Jesus didn't mean that since they would always be there, you were free to treat them however you wanted.  Or even that treating them with other than respect all right.  

     In this country, we are lucky enough to be able to say we have government programs that can be something of a help in our individual efforts to help the poor and the disadvantaged.  I can't say how well you are doing in your individual efforts to help the poor.  I won't ask you.  I won't talk about my own.  But I can say that our governmental efforts to help the poor are beset with quarrels that our charity is too great at a time when children and single mothers and disable folks and people who are out of work are going to bed hungry, and cannot pay for medical care and cannot pay for medication.  We know from studies of poverty that the number of people who require government help varies with the state of the economy, but we still persist in blaming the people who are out of work or ill or children or disabled for the situations that we know will tend to improve as the economy improves.  This assumption makes us feel better for not helping them out,  it makes us feel self-righteous.

     This is very unattractive.

     Do I have anything against the rich?  Not actually.  I do have considerable against those who got rich and forgot what it was like to be poor.  I think that those who think they did it by themselves probably got their educations from somebody else's schools and drove to their jobs on somebody else's highways, and attended colleges where many of the places weren't paid for by tax dollars, and used bridges that were privately built, and used computers and phones that weren't in part paid for by federal defense financing and didn't use drugs paid for in part by people who got science grants from Federal programs and whose research that was federally funded, and didn't eat food that was safe by federal standards and weren't using electricity that didn't come from Federal dam and rural electrification projects.  Many of these people live in places where life wouldn't be possible without government subsidy of water projects.

     We haven't even gotten into the military, mind you.

     And when these projects aren't funded properly, sometimes big things go wrong.  

     The people who make the most money are the ones who frequently draw the most on these resources, public resources.  There is nothing wrong with that.  The pretense that it was all done by one's self, however, is an illusion, and a damaging one at that.  To be rich is, as the chinese say, glorious.  To lose perspective, however, not so much.  This has nothing to do with Marx, it has to do with remaining a part of society as a person among people.

Sincerely,  Bob Kaven  

    
serenity blaze
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40 posted 10-30-2008 07:04 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I didn't say it was edited, Mike.
Grinch
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41 posted 10-30-2008 07:20 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Mike,

I didnít see it - have you got a link?

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42 posted 10-30-2008 11:45 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

It wasn't on the internet, Grinch. It was on the local news.
Balladeer
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43 posted 10-30-2008 11:51 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Karen, no, you didn't. You said "and with some careful editing...who knows?", which leaves enough wiggle room to be able to say you didn't say it was edited.

When I said I hope a lot of people saw it, I didn't mean that a lot of people seeing it would make it true. What I meant was that I hope a lot of people could see exactly what some poor and blacks feel that Obama is promising them by his "spreading the wealth" comments and what they expect if he is elected.
Bob K
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44 posted 10-31-2008 04:57 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Mike,

          What network of the local liberal news?  Might that have been the local Fox affiliate of the Liberal news channels, Mike.  It's not like you watch a wide spectrum of local Liberal news sources, is it?  Perhaps PBS?  Or CSPAN?  CNBC?  BBC?  ABC?  CBS?  How many of these guys do you pay attention to on a regular basis?

     And if it were such a great story, perhaps there's another channel that's running follow up?  If you could find such a thing, it'd be really fascinating to see what your idea of balanced news is.

     Oh, By the way,  the idiot who had the effigy of Sarah Palin up here in Hollywood was pretty much in the news for days, and deputies took it down.  Apparently they thought it was simply too much of an incitement and they were generally disgusted with the guy.

     I can hardly wait to hear how you manage to account for the negative press the idiot got from the "Liberal media."  

Yours,  Bob Kaven
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45 posted 10-31-2008 10:43 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Bob, just as you told Tbear how he really doesn't know that much about you, let me make it as equally clear you don't know that much about my private life, either. For example, you have no idea what I watch on television and to claim it is "not like me" to watch mainstream news programs is making an assumption with no basis in fact. While it is true I watch fox news to get realistic political coverage, fox doesn't carry our local news as the mainstream stations do and perhaps you may not find it that hard to believe that I like to know what's happening locally, too. I actually watch every news station you mentioned in your testy reply, even if you find that shocking to learn. For the record, in case it ever comes up, I also watch American Idol, dancing with the Stars and Boston Legal.

As far as my idea of "balanced news", it was simply a taped segment of a question asked a lady at the rally. That's it, as simple as that. Try to turn it into what you want, or build any conspiracy around it you may, but it remains a 10 second clip presented on the news and nothing more.

It's encouraging to learn that your press was "generally disgusted" with the idiot and the Palin hanging in effigy. That's really big of them to show such emotion. Would they also have been "generally disgusted" if it had been a dummy of Obama or would it have been front page news, lead-in to every news program,spawning editorials of the evil right-wingers and the despicable tactics they use, and playing the race card. Would they have opined that it could have been a republican-endorsed action, and would the occupant of the house have his entire history gone over with a fine-tooth comb - you know, employment records, financial records, tax returns. medical history, interviews with neighbors, family members, and old high school teachers - sort of like all of the things they have done with Joe the plumber? I mentioned the action here and  you are the only person to reference it, probably because you live in the area. How many of our upstanding democrats or Obama-supporters here would have posted and shown outrage if it had been a hanging Obama? The answer would be ALL. But it was only Sarah Palin. so let's disregard it here, allow the local media there to be "generally  disgusted" and forget the whole thing.

The police there said they can't report it as a "hate crime" because hate crimes only deal with minorities. So...hate the white or the woman, hang them with a noose from your house and you are home free in that wonderful state.

As far as OUR wonderful local news coverage, it barely got a mention....not surprising to anyone here.
serenity blaze
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46 posted 10-31-2008 11:46 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

"wiggle room"???

*smiling serenely*

I knew a room like that once. It was covered in plastic, vinyl, and rubber...

My implication was, and I certainly should have been clearer, was that I took that moment with a grain of salt because, in living up to my Karenoid name, I thought it was staged.

I also thought the previous moment of decency by McCain was staged, but this one did come off a bit better, I admit.

My first thought when I saw that, was "Let's Make a Deal"...I figured she'd been paid.

Forgive my cynicism regarding tv.

And yeah, my cynicism swings both ways. I don't think it was "sandbagging" to ask Joe Biden the Marxist question--but I thought he handled that okay.

If you are watching folks on tv? KNOW that they are wearing make-up.

Every thing you see is orchestrated. Call me Karenoid, but y'ever notice that you very seldom see three red shirts in a row in the audience? (That's cause it is BAD TV.)

And yes, even "Oprah" asks her audience attendees to refrain from wearing white.

Bad for the lighting.

If I can admit that twenty thou for two weeks of McMakeup is money wisely spent?

It's 'cause the man did not look ALIVE.

it's tv.

tv.

and my ellipses..."for future editing" was meant precisely as that.

Sound bytes, buzz words, all nasty nasty politics, put together in snarky little pundit clips that do indeed make me laugh sometimes, but I consider them as entertainment, and NOT NEWS.

And I don't care if anyone's pom poms are blue or red. It's carefully crafted visually misleading malarkey.

And that clip didn't get airplay, because it is embarrassing (and a fatuous backfire) when the obvious ploy doesn't work. The only way that could have been more obvious was if the woman was fanning herself with hundred dollar bills in front of Monty Hall.

JMHO

I could be wrong. It's been known to happen.

But in the meantime, allow me to have my say without taking it as personal injury, or some disloyalty to friendship or even country.

Let my opinion stand.

It's just my opinion based on observation.

It is not a personal attack on anyone.

PEACE
 
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