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Biden at his Best..

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Balladeer
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0 posted 10-21-2008 02:06 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


.Biden to Supporters: "Gird Your Loins", For the Next President "It's Like Cleaning Augean Stables"


October 20, 2008 7:35 AM

ABC News' Matthew Jaffe Reports: Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., on Sunday guaranteed that if elected, Sen. Barack Obama., D-Ill., will be tested by an international crisis within his first six months in power and he will need supporters to stand by him as he makes tough, and possibly unpopular, decisions.

"Mark my words," the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. "It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/biden-to-suppor.html

The article goes on..........

"And he's gonna need help. And the kind of help he's gonna need is, he's gonna need you - not financially to help him - we're gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right."

"I've forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know, so I'm not being falsely humble with you. I think I can be value added, but this guy has it," the Senate Foreign Relations chairman said of Obama. "This guy has it. But he's gonna need your help. Because I promise you, you all are gonna be sitting here a year from now going, 'Oh my God, why are they there in the polls? Why is the polling so down? Why is this thing so tough?' We're gonna have to make some incredibly tough decisions in the first two years. So I'm asking you now, I'm asking you now, be prepared to stick with us. Remember the faith you had at this point because you're going to have to reinforce us."

"There are gonna be a lot of you who want to go, 'Whoa, wait a minute, yo, whoa, whoa, I don't know about that decision'," Biden continued. "Because if you think the decision is sound when they're made, which I believe you will when they're made, they're not likely to be as popular as they are sound. Because if they're popular, they're probably not sound."


Well, there you have it. Biden is already warning that the actions they are going to take after the elections may cause people, even their own supporters< to say "Wait a minute! What's this...?" He's warning that the "tough decisions in the first two years" may be hard to understand so disregard what you will be seeing and keep the blind faith that what they are going to do is really for the good of the country.

If that doesn't scare the bejesus out of you, there's something wrong....

Democratic strategist and pollster Doug Schoen said Biden's comments are "probably an uncomfortable truth, certainly not what you want as a Democratic strategist for your vice presidential candidate to say.... http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/20/biden-obama-tested-world-months-administration/

That's an understatement, to say the least. Get the democratic team of podiatrists ready. Shooting in the foot has begun...

Btw, Biden has been taken off the campaign trail. Gee, wonder why......

People, open your eyes............

Ron
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1 posted 10-21-2008 02:22 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
"Because if you think the decision is sound when they're made, which I believe you will when they're made, they're not likely to be as popular as they are sound. Because if they're popular, they're probably not sound." (emphasize added)

Sorry, Mike, but that makes a lot of sense to me. I think if EITHER candidate wanted to be popular, they probably picked a bad moment in history to make their run for office. These are tough times.

That should be good news to Republicans, though. It gives them a chance to recapture Congress in 2010. It is, after all, exactly why they lost Congress in 2006?  


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2 posted 10-21-2008 02:32 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Could be, Ron, but the flavor of that speech seems more like a warning that "You're not gonna like what we do to you after we're in" or Momma saying "I'm doing this for your own good" as she punished you or Dad saying "This hurts me more than it hurts you" as he takes a belt to your behind. I can assure you that one was a lie!
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3 posted 10-21-2008 03:32 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


I wasn’t too sure about Biden, until now.

This is the first real indication that one of the candidates is serious about facing the years of financial irresponsibility that has plagued the US government and making the tough choices that need to be made.

I’m impressed, I’ll be even more impressed if he, and Obama, turn the words into deeds.
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4 posted 10-21-2008 03:41 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

I agree totally with you Grinch, and saw him on Ellen as well the other day and was impressed with him finally explaining what they are going to "do" and how.  Now I like the entire package.  Sharon leaves ducking spitballs for Balladeer.
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5 posted 10-21-2008 03:44 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Interesting how people either see what they want to see or arrive at conclusions they want to be true...yes, I will include myself there.

If these futuristic actions are going to be so necessary to the country, why then is Obama afraid to mention them now? Why is it that Biden has to warn the public of them now, beforehand, and encourage them not to turn against the democratic leadership when they come? There's nothing wrong with making tough decisions and I agree that some tough decisions are not popular but you have two situations going here....Obama on one hand telling the middle and lower classes how they are going to better off due to his policies and Biden warning people they may not like the changes that will be made.

There have been jokes about Obama considering himself the Messiah....sounds like they may not be jokes.

If this kind of good cop - bad cop lingo appeals to you, grinch, then so be it. You don't have to be here to live through it.

Neither do you, Mysteria

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6 posted 10-21-2008 04:46 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
why then is Obama afraid to mention them now


For the same reason McCain isn’t mentioning them, they’re following the standard rules to win an election.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_S_htlp6Ps

Politics.
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7 posted 10-22-2008 03:24 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Mule muffins, Grinch. Besides, you're missing the point. Biden claims we will be attacked within six months. He claims we will do something that many Americans may not agree with. What in the world would that be? If we were talking economy, then one could read a lot into a comment like that. Higher taxes, government controls, wage and price freezing all would qualify. He's not talking about the economy, though. He's referring to our being attacked. What, then, would be this action that Americans, even democrats, would not agree with. Surrender?
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8 posted 10-22-2008 07:33 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

quote:
He's referring to our being attacked. What, then, would be this action that Americans, even democrats, would not agree with. Surrender?


Nay! How about a complete reinstatement of our constitution? That scares the hell out of many on the hill.

How about retiring some members of Congress?? They’re already sharing each other’s teeth!

I feel like the man is thinking outside the box. I mean the ‘world is looking.” We’re in over our heads. It’s obvious to all, I believe, and apathy scares me more than anything.
I hope whoever wins extinguishes the apathy and inspires a change so extraordinary that foundations for attacks on our integrity or safety will be reduced to nill.

quote:
There have been jokes about Obama considering himself the Messiah....sounds like they may not be jokes.


No way! I heard Tom Cruise was the messiah.
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9 posted 10-22-2008 07:57 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Mike,

          Did I just hear you manage to imply, with absolutely no evidence that I can see, that Obama is both a coward and a traitor in advance of actions that would lead us to suspect either thing?  

      I must reluctantly overlook these statements unless you can put them into some form that can be addressed objectively, in terms of the reality of your assertions, where they can be tested where everybody might see them.  In this form, where the statements are made in such a conditional and "as if" fashion, there are in effect no real statements for me to confront and debate.

     Should you actually wish to make a direct statement about Senator Obama's courage or patriotism, I would be happy to discuss nature of whatever charges you wish to make at that time with you.  At this time, the rules of this discussion board discourage me from attempting such a discussion because no actual clear assertion has been made, and I can only discuss the problem with the ill-formedness of your statements.  That is, in appearing to make some, you have in fact made none.

Sincerely yours,

Bob Kaven

    
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10 posted 10-23-2008 02:26 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Bob, I have made absolutely no reference to Obama being either a coward or traitor in this thread. I have always been amazed by the inferences you always seem to derive from my comments but this one is much more off the wall than the others. it happens so frequently that I must surmise that it is by design. I don't know why it is such a favorite tactic of yours but I would appreciate it if you would control it. You are on the edge of personal insults, no matter how you try to camouflage it with bewilderment and feigned innocence, and it has no place here.

[This message has been edited by Balladeer (10-23-2008 03:05 AM).]

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11 posted 10-23-2008 06:06 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Perhaps, Balladeer, using inflammatory words suggesting "surrender" to an "attack" might be construed by some readers as implying the person being referred to is a coward and a traitor?  

Been a little under the weather again so I'm a bit behind in my reading. Did Biden actually use the word "attack"?
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12 posted 10-23-2008 10:40 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Perhaps you are right, Jennifer, although I would consider it to be a stretch worthy of Michael Jordan to make.

I was referring to what Biden could possibly be referring to in his comments. The "surrender?" was simply a word of outrageousness like one saying to a spouse after not taking out the garbage and getting chastized for it.."So whaddya want me to do...shoot myself???"   Surely we do not have such a shortage of gray cells here that something like that would be taken literally? As I said, this is not the first time. People will read what they want to into a comment, or even word, and use it in whatever manner they wish.

Did Biden use the actual word attack? I'll have to look. Attack would not necessarily mean militarily, anyway. He could also be speaking of financially or in a "muscle-flexing" way, although referred to the "testing" as being conducted by terrorist groups, possibly, which would certainly lend it's way toward a terroristic avenue.

Obama is trying hard to do damage control concerning the comment, saying that Biden wasn't referring to him, but to any president stepping into the Oval office....which is, of course, completely not what Biden said. Obama just wants it to go away.....and I think it's a general consensus among the Obama camp that they wish BIDEN would go away, too!
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13 posted 10-23-2008 11:26 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

It's interesting to see how some of the responders think what the "testing" could mean. True, they are not pro-Biden but they offer an interesting array of thought.

Biden said that Obama will need your help turning this country socialist through martial law and military takeover. He will also need your help declaring all elections over after the democrats get the majority. So, this is how democracy dies, to thunderous applause.

Is anyone else not disturbed by these comments? I feel like we are going to experience a large loss of our freedoms in this country very quickly in the name of international security.

In short,if we Democrats win, be prepared for us to go back on our word on day one.
Biden should be commended for this unusual display of honesty.

Biden, why don't you and the rest of the men and women who call yourselves Senators just tell the American people the truth: You have enabled and encouraged the folly that you would have all of us believe is American foreign and domestic policy. Manufactured crises or warnings of same that produce no other results except to continue to strip Americans of their Civil Liberties, foment continued hatred of America abroad and lead us into a world wide socialist system packaged and sold to unaware Americans as compassion and decency...You should be ashamed of yourself, sir. You and all the rest who stand completely at odds with the will of the people.

This is a thinly veiled way of saying that the kool-aid drinkers need to keep quaffing when Obama's oppressive tax policy bankrupts thousands of small business and sends the country into a depression. I could not care less what the "tax calculator" app on his website says, "spreading the wealth" means that small and medium sized business are going to be forced to lay off workers.



Probably one of the most telling things is what Biden said at the end....

"I probably shouldn't have said all this because it dawned on me that the press is here," he joked.
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14 posted 10-23-2008 12:33 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I’ve now had a chance to read Biden’s speech in its entirety and what it says to me is that, thanks mainly to the Bush Administration screw-ups, i.e., Gitmo, Iraq, the deficit, failed economic policies, etc., there are going to be tough times ahead and difficult decisions to be made. And, of course, that scenario isn’t going to change no matter who is elected.

Mischaracterize Biden’s speech however you wish with inflammatory and fear mongering words like attack and surrender meant to raise hackles on the neocons, but all he’s really saying is clearly expressed in his closing lines:

"All kidding aside, these guys have left us in a God-awful place," he then said of the Bush regime, promptly wrapping up his remarks. "We have the ability to straighten it out. It's gonna take a little bit of time, so I ask you to stay with us. Stay with us."

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15 posted 10-23-2008 01:27 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

That's fine, Jennifer. You have the right interpret it any way you want.

guaranteed that if elected, Sen. Barack Obama., D-Ill., will be tested by an international crisis within his first six months in power and he will need supporters to stand by him as he makes tough, and possibly unpopular, decisions.

He did not mention "the president, whoever it is" - he mentioned Obama specifically and he warned that the decisions will probably be unpopular and make even democrats turn against them. In other words, they are going to implement actions they will not tell you about now and warn you you're not going to like them to the point of even questioning THEM. If that doesn't bother you, then so be it.

Two things are certain....(1)Obama will not do the things he pledges to do now and (2) he will blame it on the mess left by the Bush adminstration, as you have just done here.
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16 posted 10-23-2008 01:34 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I don't know what all the fuss is about.

I think it's fairly obvious that either candidate, if elected, will face a "testing" period.

It happens every time, doesn't it.

These periods last about four years, don't they?

OW. I just typed a thought that hurt myself.



*wince*
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17 posted 10-23-2008 01:46 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

True enough, serenity gal, but what is uncommon is the president or vice-presidential candidate warning the American people that their decisions may shake their belief in their party and will have to take them on faith. I would even call that unpresidented.

Need relief? Call me at 1-800 -Ikissowies
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18 posted 10-23-2008 02:15 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

and you may not wanna go there...it's not like I put a head on a stick at the entrance to the cave, but the very idea that the very idea amuses me makes me a bit dangerous, methinks.

As for whether or not it's common or uncommon (the topic I mean) even if I knew my history before, I can't remember it now, and I'd love to go researching for a while, but sigh--I have to cook supper, do laundry, shrink some heads--you know, the usual stuff.
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19 posted 10-23-2008 08:01 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

well I got to vote early today

I'm sick to death of hearing them say that obama is already elected...not by my vote he isn't....
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20 posted 10-23-2008 08:56 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Mike,

          Surrender to what, then Mike?  If the statement is to be a clear one, you need to specify what you think Biden will surrender to.  Is there some attack that I am unaware of that Senator Biden may surrender to?  Perhaps there has been a rise in the defcon level or some other clear measure of increased danger that we may all agree upon that you might point to?  I had not noticed one.

     If there is danger, surely there should be some measure of it?  I mean other than the approach of elections.  I have noticed that emergencies do tend to cluster around elections.

     But why would you suggest Biden would surrender to an unnamed threat if you weren't questioning his patriotism and his courage?  And why would you get offended if I asked you what that threat might be?

     If I am in danger and you aren't telling me about it, I would suspect I have a right to ask you where the danger is coming from, don't I?  And on what basis you make that judgement?  And expect you to give me an answer that has some sort of verifiable objective answer, so I can decide if I need to dig a bomb shelter or move to Florida or something drastic like that.

     So how about some objective information, if you want to try to throw a scare into me, Mike?  Doesn't it seem fair?

Sincerely yours,

Bob Kaven  

    

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21 posted 10-23-2008 11:15 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Bob, if you want to know what danger we may be in, don't ask me - ask Biden. He is the one announcing it. He is the one specifying that the actions of the new administration  may not be popular with the citizenry.

My question is the same as yours....what could this international "testing' be? Beats me. Economic? Military? What? And, if it were military, since he mentions afghanistan, what actions could they do with would possibly turn the populace against them? What in the world could that mean? I threw in the word "surrender" just as an example of something I know the American people would not stand for. There could be something else. I don't know. Biden isn't telling us - he's just warning us. If you want your mind set as ease, don't ask me....ask him.
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22 posted 10-24-2008 02:14 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Mike,

          I've always felt that political rhetoric is rich in vocabulary such as being "tested," or being "challenged."  I don't tend to think too much about it myself.  Every administration, Republican or Democrat, seems to find itself in a situation of this sort.  Perhaps your memory is different about this than mine is, but I have fairly clear memories going back at least five years or so of this sort of stuff.  Maybe longer.  Maybe much longer.

     Right after Bush won the 2000 election, if I recall correctly, he started talking about the recession.  I was pretty bewildered to hear him talk like that, but that was the rhetoric Bush was leading with at the time.

     To hear talk about being tested in a new administration, if in fact elections are carried off (I do worry about damage to the Nation from the past eight years, especially from The Patriot Act) would be a given, even without the temptations laid out in front of any new administration by The Patriot Act.  With The Patriot Act in Place (The Gift That Keeps on Giving) the country now has an issue with an out of balance executive branch in an economic emergency.  Oh goody.

     That would be enough for me.

     That much is pretty much based on an unstable recent power shift in the country and a predictable wrestling match over how to deal with the incredible deficit run up by the war and the recent governmental give-aways to drug companies and profit-making contractors who are trying to make money by making cost-cutting measures on how food is distributed to the army.  

     Costs less to serve more troops in larger mess halls in central locations.  You get those traditional old business savings Republicans are always talking about, and you paint huge targets on the troops gathered in the huge bullseyes they call mess-halls.  I'd rather pay more money and not pay with as many dead troops, myself, and I understand that's the army position as well.  But I guess when you Republicans talk about cutting to the bone, I should really take you literally, shouldn't I?

     These are predictable tests as well, aren't they?

     I don't think the tests will be as huge as you do, because I think Obama is well meaning, but basically a center of the road type, and not a very serious Democrat at all.  You may be right about how liberal he is in the Senate, but I suspect that says more about how far right the senate has drifted over the past 30 years than what a firebrand Obama himself may be.

     But lets keep things straight here.  "Tested" if I understand things correctly, was what Biden said.  Anyone who's elected in 2008 will be tested, one way or another.  If you can let me know how this might not happen, I'd be interested to hear how.

     "Surrender" was your coinage.  The word has baggage.  I'm sorry you used it about Biden and Obama, but I'm pleased to hear you understand the difference.  I get carried away myself from time to time, people tell me.
Correctly enough.

All my best, Bob Kaven
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23 posted 10-24-2008 03:30 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I've always felt that political rhetoric is rich in vocabulary such as being "tested," or being "challenged."  I don't tend to think too much about it myself.

Bob, in case you have forgotten Biden's words, I'll redisplay them.....

"It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

Now, are you seriously going to tell me that his comment refers to nothing more than the normal testing talk all new presidents go through...just a little political rhetoric to throw around? Biden is speaking specifically and he is warning that their actions will not be met with approval. You are making the claim that "anyone's who's elected will be tested"?

My memory, yes, must be different than yours. I have NEVER seen this type of warning given to the American people, especially with a definite timetable, about what is going to happen when their candidate wins the election.

You may not think too much about it, as it came from a Democrat but I can make an educated guess that, if it had come from a republican, you may very well accuse him of fear mongering, spreading rumors and inciting the public for political purposes.

The interesting thing about it is that it is a statement very unfavorable for the Democrats. Biden is warning of something to happen if OBAMA  is elected, not anyone else. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

No one can convince me right now that Obama does not want to strangle his running mate for this "routine political rhetoric."
 
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