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Passions in Poetry

The Presidential "Race"

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Mistletoe Angel
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75 posted 10-24-2008 08:11 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I want to take this moment to sojourn on an initial point made here, and that is how the Obama campaign is deliberately "playing to the poor".

Of course I believe we can safely claim that politicians, no matter what, are going to work to play to all demographics, backgrounds and populaces as best they can, so besides the obvious point that politicians in GENERAL are going to be "playing" to the poor, along with every other key constituency, when you examine the long-term history of how poorer Americans vote, they have for the last thirty years leaned Democratic.

Exit Polls: 2004 Election

  Exit Polls: 2000 Election

Exit Polls: 1996 Election

Exit Polls: 1992 Election

Exit Polls: 1988 Election

Exit Polls: 1984 Election

Exit Polls: 1980 Election

It is easy to claim plainly that they "play" to the poor, but when you consider a history as extensively as this, I think it would be irresponsible to assume that's all there is to this pattern, and there are surely well-ingrained reasons and motivators to why those with low incomes regularly tend to favor the Democratic candidate, regardless of how sincere or insincere the Democrat is.

And with this cycle, the mindset appears to be the same. Here's one new poll statistic that suggests it:

CBS News Poll: October 23, 2008



And I believe many Americans are right to feel this way. I already explained many reasons before in this thread on why McCain's campaign shouldn't be surprised their economic agenda is falling on deaf ears, behaving as though our problems are "psychological" and there aren't any uninsured Americans and if they talked about the economy they'd lose, etc.

Does that make Obama any more right on economic policy? That's up for debate. But what's clear is, there are historical factors that lead many Americans to believe the GOP doesn't appear to be sympathetic to their needs and issues that affect people like them, and so I believe simply calling it "playing to the poor" would be irresponsible.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
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76 posted 10-24-2008 10:17 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Noah,

I've missed reading your poetry. But on to the topic:

I believe I heard repeated today that Obama does not "listen to the polls, they mean nothing." I found that quite interesting. It's like the cat is in the bag, tied up, and nearly near the water's end.

I am having a problem with that kind of attitude.

To me, it's not positive. It's egotistic.

And yes, I've voted early, because it became an option that I could use in my discretion. BUT, as I have told a friend, "I voted a split ticket" because it's not all about the White House. There has to be a even balance; there has to be voice on "all" sides.

As most of elder PiP members might know, I dislike discordance. So you may all dismiss this note, that's just fine with me.

But for those of you who might believe in a tolerant nation with rules, regs and order: we must come together to weather not only the economy, but certain ruin if we cannot work together to be one Nation again. America is a belief that so many of our younger people take as granted; and we of "my" generation have allowed them to do just that.

Be ready to prepare gardens and raise your own food, people. Bartering could soon become the master of the US economy. I do not mean to place a dire notion into what might be; but I listened well to the woman who said a year before she died, "we're going to see another depression."

We tried to tell her she was wrong; but it seems we were wrong; I mean, after all, with a mere 99 years under her skirts, she truly knew her history!

So many of our children won't even know how to bake, let alone break, bread.

Bob K
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77 posted 10-25-2008 04:00 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Threadbear,

     About your comments about Mahoney and Foley in your posting in #66 of this thread, I have already posted a reply to your thread about Mahoney and Foley, #12 in that thread.  Should you have a comment to make, I'd be interested to hear it.  I believe there is a substantial difference between the two situations, and I go into that difference there.

     I suspect you missed it the first time around.

Sincerely, Bob Kaven
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78 posted 10-25-2008 04:10 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Sunshine,

          About the economy, you may be right.  There's a scarey thought for you.

     About listening to surveys, I heard McCain say the same thing the other day.  Are you about to draw the same conclusion about him, or were you just looking to get another shot in at Obama?  Bush said the same when he was down in the poles about the Iraq war.  It's a disingenuous thing that almost all politicians say becaquse poles matter to all of them and yet they know that poles do change.

     I'll try not to go out of my way to bad-mouth McCain; I'll just focus on his policies  and the way his statements reflect them.  I really will try for all the reasons that you seemed so sensibly to advocate in your last entry.  I found it moving and sincere.

     Thanks for writing it.

Bob Kaven
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79 posted 10-25-2008 09:05 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

After all of the rhetoric, Bob, which you present in fine fashion, the difference between foley and Mahoney is that one is republican and one is a democrat. This fuzzy logic is nothing new.

Hillary made millions writing her book while in office BUT Gingrich got chastised and fined for it.

Byrd was a member of the KKK BUT Lott made an off-the-cuff racial joke. Bye bye, Lott.

Clinton lied under oath BUT it was over a personal issue.

Amazing how many defenses can come up for Democrats when caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Even when democrats are unarguably guilty, somehow it's never quite as bad as a Republican's similar actions.

Mahoney carried on affairs BUT Foley send e-mails to young boys BUT Mahoney actually carried out these liasons while there was no evidence that Foley did BUT Foley disgraced his party.....etc, etc. etc.

Foley was drummed out of office in disgrace. Mahoney stated in the papers the other day he is undecided about running for re-election.

The main point, though, that Threadbear made was that Foley was butchered in the press daily for weeks and weeks on end while Mahoney received very little notice at all and has already all but disappeared.

I suppose the Democrats and the liberal press simply must have bigger BUTS than republicans.
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80 posted 10-25-2008 10:04 AM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

Hi, Bob.  I didn't ignore it.  I couldn't edit my own post after submitting it.  My cyber filter is tuned to filter out words such as 's*x scandel'.  It will let me write them, but I can't edit a pre-existing post with those words in them.  I thought it was pretty ironic, myself!  I just haven't asked my McAfee guys to adjust my filter.  I'll try to find some time later and post my response to your comments in this thread, ok?  Gotta laugh at my dilemma, though, huh?  I did!  I'm just sick up and fed with getting splattered with false links, viruses, etc, and after my UTube virus hit me on a normal political video, I tightened everything up.  I backed out my register one day and my computer went back to normal after installing McAfee filter.

Laughing at Mike's 'kicker line' about Dem's having 'bigger but's.'  :
Jeff
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81 posted 10-25-2008 11:16 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Regina,

I think Acorn has quite a history of arrests, indictments and convictions nationwide.
http://www.rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html
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82 posted 10-25-2008 11:32 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Wow! Nice link, denise..

I can see why Obama's almost million dollar donation to them to get the vote out would be considered money well spent.

Wonder how much he donated to charity this year? just curious.....
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83 posted 10-25-2008 12:01 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
I think Acorn has quite a history of arrests, indictments and convictions nationwide.



Really? Are you saying ACORN itself has been found guilty of registration fraud or are you simply listing cases where people who ripped off ACORN have been arrested and convicted?
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/22/voter.fraud/?imw=Y&iref=mpstoryemail

Using your logic the American postal service is guilty of killing people based on the fact that a couple of their employees have been found guilty of “going postal“.

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84 posted 10-25-2008 02:02 PM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

I do...I am ready to throw a rock thru my television screen again.

8 million hits on Palin Shopping spree on Google.

A woman and her wardrobe, from middle income to running as 2nd most important person in the country and people are screaming about her replacing her wardrobe with a more suitable outfit befitting her role.  

STILL think the media isn't blowing smoke at the Republicans?  Mahoney vs. Palin story is now running at a ratio of  53 shopping stories to 1 for Mahoney.  

Never ever have I seen a Presidential candidate more savaged than Palin.  Simply disgraceful.  

There is simply NO explanation other than outright bias for this discrepency about coverage.  One story is an outright scandel of huge proportions, the other is simply a shrug.  The shrug is getting ALL the coverage, even more than the economy.

People:  you are being manipulated.
JenniferMaxwell
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85 posted 10-25-2008 02:35 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Good grief, the RNC spent $150,000 on Palin's wardrobe and $22,000 for her sytlist? And they dare call Obama an elitist.

serenity blaze
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86 posted 10-25-2008 02:57 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Kari?

I've never really understood the money system.

But I can barter me arse off!

JenniferMaxwell
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87 posted 10-25-2008 02:58 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

LOL - Karen, too funny! How ya doin'?
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88 posted 10-25-2008 03:27 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Serenity, bartering is still a system used by a lot of folk in the midwest. It's going to become even more necessary, I think, and it's not an art that's easily learned. As you well know, one must have a great idea of the value of what is to be bartered.

And you watch: more and more people are going to have to be NICE to one another.

BobK, I truly do not think I took a dig at Obama; in fact, it was just the reverse. I was appalled to learn about the "B" on the face story by the woman who fabricated it. I believe I said that did not do McCain any good.

I pretty much did take a dig at both the government and our people in that we've let the government take "care" of us. Maybe not in so many words, but that's where my thinking lies at the moment. It's time we started taking care of ourselves.

Denise? You're really coming up with some fine links. Keep up the good work!!


JenniferMaxwell
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89 posted 10-25-2008 03:39 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Maybe Caribou Barbie could start bartering for her outfits and stylist service. Perhaps a stuffed moosehead and wolf paw might seal the bargain?

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90 posted 10-25-2008 04:02 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

And I wonder what the "value" was for Oprah's makeup artists and hair stylists to makeover Michelle Obama? I wonder if they were donated services, even though Michelle and Barack are millionaires and could certainly pay for the services themselves. It would be interesting to find out if Michelle actually opened up her own wallet, or if the services she received were a gift from Oprah.  

Palin is the only non-millionaire on either ticket. All the other candidates can afford to buy their own appropriate campaign clothes and can afford to pay their own stylists.

If I recall correctly, someone here derided Palin earlier for her hair style and for wearing fleece, the ususal clothing worn in Alaska. I guess there is no pleasing some folks.

And the clothes are not Palin's "property". And she didn't do the shopping. A campaign aide did and after the election they will be given to charity or auctioned off for charity (something I'm sure you wouldn't know without watching Fox News). That's a good "spreading of the wealth", don'tcha think? Obama should approve.   But, at least in this case it will be voluntary, and not stolen out of our paychecks, as it would with Obama.

Tax cuts from Obama for 95% of working Americans? How does that happen when he will abolish Bush's tax cuts? Please. Clinton promised tax cuts too. And as soon as he was elected he raised taxes.

Obama doesn't have a very good track record of being a man of his word. Just ask Joe Biden, whom Obama promised that he wouldn't vote against the troop funding when Biden told him he would be putting the troops lives at risk if he did vote against it, but then "changed his mind" and voted against it, and John McCain, whom Obama promised to avail himself of the public election financing if McCain did, and then after McCain signed onto it, Obama "changed his mind", so why believe him on this?

Grinch, ACORN has been promising for years to clean up their act. How long can they continue to use the excuse of "it's not us, it's the people we hired"? I'd say that boat can't float too much longer.

Thanks Karilea!


[This message has been edited by Ron (10-25-2008 04:43 PM).]

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91 posted 10-25-2008 04:09 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

quote:
And you watch: more and more people are going to have to be NICE to one another


huh?

Surely you're not saying that NICE will become a necessity of manipulation?

I'm shocked!

and um, newsflash--some people pay more for abuse.

*chuckle*

Let's not play the ambiguity game though.

It ain't nice.

But the best rule of bartering is "FAIR DEAL." (google lagniappe, too.) A little local business custom of incentive in N'awlins--we like to keep 'em comin'.

(oh, I'm killin' me over here...)

(and Jenn? How nice of you to ask--as you can probably tell, I'm still me. Sometimes nice, sometimes not, but ever striving for peace.)

Now. Excuse me while I go get ready. I've been feeling so much better I actually started going outside, and I accidentally made friends with the neighbors.

(They LIKE me--they really LIKE me!!!) <--The Sally Field smilie.

We'll be on the porch to the left of my door if anyone cares to join us.


JenniferMaxwell
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92 posted 10-25-2008 04:22 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"Palin is the only non-millionaire on either ticket."

Since her assets top a million, why do you say she isn't a millionaire? And since she is a millionaire, surely she can afford a few good outfits. If the Gap is good enough for Michelle Obama, why isn't is good enough for Palin? For $150,000 Palin could clothe nearly the whole town of Wasilla.

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93 posted 10-25-2008 04:24 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

So glad to hear you're feeling better, Karen.
Grinch
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94 posted 10-25-2008 04:29 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
Grinch, ACORN has been promising for years to clean up their act. How long can they continue to use the excuse of "it's not us, it's the people we hired"? I'd say that boat can't float too much longer.


Denise,

Is that what ACORN were convicted of, employing the wrong people?

I agree ACORN would be better off taking a little more time selecting who they employ to collect registrations, for one thing it’d save them some money but that isn‘t what you accused them of.

quote:
I think Acorn has quite a history of arrests, indictments and convictions nationwide.


I think you’re wrong.

If you’re looking for real registration fraud I think you need to check out Nathan Sproul - so does Republican Congressman Chris Cannon:

"The difference between ACORN and Sproul is that ACORN doesn't throw away or change registration documents after they have been filled out."
rwood
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95 posted 10-25-2008 04:45 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Count the number of people who are listed on the new link you posted, Denise.

Again. The Justice Department has the record of convictions, which is still under 100.

Less than 100 people in 5 years have been convicted of voter fraud, out of 300 million.

And it's not just from ACORN.

quote:
Take what’s happened this past weekend in California, where the head of Young Political Majors—a signature-gathering firm hired by the state GOP—was arrested on suspicion of voter registration fraud. The firm’s owner, Mark Jacoby, has been charged with fraudulently registering himself to vote at a Los Angeles address where he no longer resides. As the Los Angeles Times reports, Jacoby’s firm is also under investigation. Dozens of Democratic voters in California say that YPM duped them into joining the GOP through a bait-and-switch scheme:
A Pockmark Upon Both Houses

I'm sorry, but to say that ACORN, as a company, has been convicted of voter fraud is a lie.


Denise
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96 posted 10-25-2008 04:50 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Palin's favorite store is "Out of the Closet" in Anchorage. I believe it is a consignment shop. And as I said previously, the $150,000 of clothes are not her property to keep, and she didn't shop for the clothes. The RNC paid for them and will give them to charity or auction them off for charity after the campaign is over.

My house has an estimated assessed value too. I wouldn't include that in my net worth unless the mortgage were paid off and it were mine free and clear, and if I actually sold it for that assessed value. And, well, we've seen what can happen in the real estate and the stock markets. I'm sure they've been hit as hard as anyone else with money in the market. So I wouldn't add them in either just to try to push up the value of their "assets" to a million.  

I also wouldn't add into her salary the reimbursed travel expenses that she put out on commercial flights for approved "first family" functions. And Todd's plane is over 25+ years old, I believe, that has been in his family for years. It's probably not worth much.  
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97 posted 10-25-2008 05:02 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Can I venture a guess here?

It's just a hunch on my part--but I suspect that the outrage is more that McCain spoke out against such expenditures prior to this campaign.

This is more distraction too.

Personally? I don't care that much, but I did love the red leather jacket.

Even with free showtime, I had little to watch on tv last night, so I amused me by watching MSNBC for part of the evening, then FOX, and a bit of CNN.

After doing that it occurred to me that watching only one source of election coverage was a bit like watching a ballgame only when your team has the ball.

Denise
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98 posted 10-25-2008 05:31 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

McCain spoke out against the pork that the legislators tack on to every bill in the House and Senate, money that ends up costing the taxpayer. The expenditures for Palin's campaign wardrobe are not going to come out of our pockets. I think that's the difference.

I'm glad you're feeling better Karen!
Denise
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99 posted 10-25-2008 05:36 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Grinch and Regina,

ACORN has a disgraceful record of employing people at all levels of the organization that have been found guilty of fraud. When they were investigated in past years they promised to clean up their act. It doesn't seem they have been too successful, whether by design or ineptitude. Perhaps they should get out of the business.
 
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