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Susan Caldwell
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Florida


100 posted 11-07-2008 11:20 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

This is an any topic thread, right?

I am having trouble sleeping...racing thoughts....herbal/holistic help?  

please.

I will go back to my corner fetal position now.  

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

Mysteria
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101 posted 11-07-2008 01:52 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

I just feel so very, very, sad, and yes even a little mad for 18,000 couples in California today, especially Ellen, whom I adore, and three couples I know down there that "tied the knot."  

I thought the Supreme Court held the last word in the United States, so I learned something today. I guess twice voting on it, makes it clear this is one "change" we are not ready to see happen.

Please don't turn this into a religious discussion that was not my intent.  I just really feel for those having experienced a severe loss on this day, of something given to them that was important to them, then taken away.
Denise
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102 posted 11-07-2008 02:17 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Not to worry Sharon. All those who were already married are still married. They are grandfathered, so to speak. It just won't be allowed going forward, unless the courts get involved and turn it around again.
Mysteria
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103 posted 11-07-2008 02:42 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Oh good!  Thanks Denise     One couple I know has been together over 25 years, and are the nicest people you ever would wish to meet.  They got married finally and were so happy when the day came that they could make it legal.  They paid for all of us who lived elsewhere to attend their ceremony in San Diego, and I was worried that day was now going to be taken away from them. Whew!  I didn't quite know what to say when I called next time.
moonbeam
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104 posted 11-08-2008 05:16 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam



quote:
I just feel so very, very, sad, and yes even a little mad for 18,000 couples in California today

In a week when the election of Obama smashed one glass ceiling it's indeed very sad to see another closed up.  God's tears will be bouncing on the glass.  And regrettably, as I read past history, there IS indeed a risk that existing marriages could be annulled.  
Susan Caldwell
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since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


105 posted 11-08-2008 10:16 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Florida voted the same way and I was so disappointed.  

This will change and that change is soon.

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

Mistletoe Angel
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City of Roses


106 posted 11-10-2008 04:31 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

As much as I am immensely disappointed in Californians for backing Proposition 8, I also applaud them for backing Proposition 2!

Proposition 2 Overview

For those of you unaware with this measure, Proposition 2 will add a chapter to Division 20 of the California Health and Safety Code to prohibit the confinement of certain farm animals in a manner that does not allow them to turn around freely, lie down, stand up, and fully extend their limbs. The measure deals with three types of confinement: veal crates, battery cages, and sow gestation crates.

Now that Proposition 2 has passed, the statute will become operative on January 1, 2015. In the six years beforehand, farming operations will be required to implement the new space requirements for their animals, and the measure prevents animals in California from being confined in these ways in the future.

Many communities worldwide have taken strong action against battery caging recently as it is. In fact, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, and Austria have all banned battery cages for egg-laying hens, and the entire European Union is phasing out battery cages by 2012.

Intensive confinement has proven to have adverse effects on the health of all living things. Scientific research has consistently found that the immune systems of animals are weakened when under intense stress and, consequentially, develop higher levels of pathogens, including the infamous Salmonella.

Beyond the concern of animal welfare, in addition, this measure is crucially important because smaller, local, family farms have in recent years continued to decline due to intensive competition by factory farms, and now that Proposition 2 passed, smaller farms will enjoy a rejuvenated competitive edge over the bigger farms, which sadly many agribusiness industries tend to be more profit-based and in effect are more likely to compromise animal welfare, environmental and public health standards.

*

I'm just very optimistic that this common-sense animal welfare campaign will continue to pick up momentum and we'll see a domino effect take place in other states very soon!

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
moonbeam
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107 posted 11-10-2008 12:36 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Yes that is good news Noah.  It would be even better news if governments would tilt the board in favour of free range farming methods and organic production.

Meantime the citizens of California seem to be schizophrenic.  Seeking to free their animals, while building cages round some of their own people.  Weird.

M

PS Noah, often what you write is very interesting and very good sense.  Unfortunately the centre justification and colour mean I have to wear shades and cross my eyes.  Any chance of a nice unpretentious, black, left justified font?

Oops, I mean blue! I was forgetting, nothing in PiP is black and white.
Susan Caldwell
Member Rara Avis
since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


108 posted 11-10-2008 01:15 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Here is the problem I had when I voted:

There were several "props" on my ballet.  And shame on me, I didn't get the time to research before I went to the polls (on the props, that is).  In any case, when I read each prop, I literally had to read them several times to make sure of the wording.  Now, at the risk of sounding a bit pretentious, I am more formally educated than the average American.  If I had to read them several times to understand exactly what was being asked, then I am inclined to believe it isn't all that clear and may just cause erroneous voting.  

For example: I would read one of the props and think to myself, "are they asking me to vote yes if I agree or yes if I don't?"  And that was the case with most of the props.  

Is it just me or did anyone else find this to be the case?

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


109 posted 11-15-2008 09:05 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Susan, on sleeping: When I am having the twitchies, can't find my spot, etc, I think about baseball.  Sarandon and Costner aside, the snore sets in about the middle of the second inning...

Best, Jimbeaux
Susan Caldwell
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since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


110 posted 11-17-2008 08:29 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell



thanks.  I am sleeping better..

Baseball didn't work but rather a realization that "it's" Okay.  

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


111 posted 11-19-2008 03:34 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Hi All -- Anyone know how to cure a dog of a destructive digging habit, short of shooting it?

In the main, I am a good doggy daddy, feeding ol' Maggie regularly, and spend quality time with her each day.  In return, she digs my garden beds, digs under the cross fence to wreak havoc in my nascent nursery, and digs under the front fence to play in the fields of the Lord and risk getting shot by those who don't appreciate her sense of humor.

PS --  Maggie is a pit bull, but don't tell her.  She thinks she's a family pet.  Also she has the front acre to wander around it, so it's not like she's chained to a tree and tossed the occasional bone.

Pit bullied, Jimbeaux
Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


112 posted 11-19-2008 06:52 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Jim,

Here are two tricks to dissuade unwanted behaviour in dogs, they’re both based on negative association.

The first is to squirt water at them while they’re doing the unwanted deed, accompanied by a stern, but not shouted, “no”.

The second is to put a few pebbles into a plastic water bottle and shake it near them accompanied by a stern “no”.

Personally I’d be tempted to report your dog as a suspected terrierist to the local authorities and sit back and wait for the inevitable extraordinary rendition. If three years in gitmo doesn’t cure the dog the Blackhawk helicopter and 15 special forces personnel rappelling onto the lawn might at least distract it from it‘s excavationary tendencies.

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


113 posted 11-23-2008 07:28 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Grinch: I shot the(insert something blasphemous here)dog.

Best, Jimbeaux
Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


114 posted 11-24-2008 05:02 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Ah!

You went for the CIA dog training manual solution (page 19), you need to follow the instructions on page 20 though and be sure to include he words “while attempting to escape” when reporting the incident.

Otherwise those namby-pamby liberal bleeding heart do-gooders will try to make out you’ve done something wrong.

oceanvu2
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since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


115 posted 11-24-2008 02:17 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Grinch -- OK, I lied.  Don't want to bring the wrath of the Animal Rights people down on my head.  Still considering contracting the job out.  (CIA manual, page one, under CYA.)

Best, Jimbeaux
oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


116 posted 11-24-2008 02:20 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

New thought:  If a doctor confirmed that you had less than thirty days to live, what would you do besides seek a second opinion?

Why aren't you doing it now?

Best, Jimbeaux

Ron
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since 05-19-99
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Michigan, US


117 posted 11-24-2008 09:16 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Why aren't you doing it now?

Because the consequences come due on day thirty-one?
rhia_5779
Senior Member
since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


118 posted 11-28-2008 02:45 AM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

I'm going to change the subject if people don't mind..
What are feelings\thoughts on Israel-Palestine?
I personally am not pro either- I'm pro peace and what it takes to get there.
Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


119 posted 11-28-2008 06:23 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


I think America should ease back on it’s support of Israel. America’s backing of Israel is causing an asymmetric balance of power in my view and is allowing Israel to avoid moving towards a two state solution to the problem.

I’m not saying America should abandon Israel altogether, just ease off enough to leave enough room for each side to look at the alternatives.

rwood
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since 02-29-2000
Posts 3797
Tennessee


120 posted 12-05-2008 05:39 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Okay, I gotta back up to Denise’s concern on the natural born citizen* nbczn * thing. She’s piqued my curiosity. I heard a radio announcement today that the U.S. Supreme Court will be addressing the issue on Monday. Most courts threw out the cases, so I wonder why they are entertaining the issue. Some of the vids I watched are mixed covers of pshaw sarcasm to genuine concern to disgust and back again.

It would be nice if they’d do something to put this thing to rest or what can/will they do if they can’t??

McCain received a “non-binding” resolution back in April by the US Senate for his nbczn issues, which is still coming under attack.

Then there’s Hill. Her appointment would be null and void?? Which she has her own issues. Constitutionally, she’s barred from serving such appointment because of the “emoluments” clause while serving a current term, Article 1, section 6. Plainly explained, (a pay raise which began in January 2007, cabinet salaries were increased from $186,600 to $191,300.) Niiiice.

Some close advisor said that the Supreme Court judges were still very raw over the Bush/Gore ordeal and they probably would not give much attention at all to the case? Huh?

Me oh my.

I didn’t post linkage because I have a headache, and that song “Should I stay or should I go” from the Clash has gotten into my brain over all of this.
Denise
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121 posted 12-06-2008 01:35 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Aside from the serious questions raised over Obama's eligibility, if, in Obama selecting Hillary for Secretary of State, and she accepting, both knowing that the Constitution forbids it under the circumstances, doesn't highlight the fact that we have people in power who don't view the Constitution as something to be obeyed, I don't know what would. To me it shows they have no respect for the Constitution nor the process for amending it, or they don't know the Constitution. And we know that they are well versed in the Constitution, being lawyers.

And, in addition, given Obama's own statement as to his disappointment that the Supreme Court "...didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, as least as it's been interpreted..." regarding redistribution of wealth in the Civil Rights issue, I'm not confident that he respects the Constitution.

If the requirements of the Constitution aren't taken seriously by our leaders, what other Constitutional requirements or guarantees may fall by the wayside at their whim? If the rule of law, based in the Constitution falls, we will be a nation 'ruled by men', the very thing the Constitution was set up to prevent.

I hope that the members of the Supreme Court exibit some intestinal fortitude and address any and all of the issues that may wind up on their doorstep in the near future. If not, they may find that their very life-time appointed positions, authorized by the Constitution, disappear.

I also read something about that non-binding resolution regarding McCain. This explanation makes the most sense of anything I've read about the Senators (all Democrats) going to the trouble of even bothering with something that was non-binding anyway. Political games.

"Why were Democratic Senators trying to pass a Resolution making Senator McCain undoubtedly LEGALLY ELIGIBLE when this issue had already been cleared up in 2000 & again in 2004?

And why did Senators McCaskill and Obama reportedly INSERT the following clause?

******"Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President"******

This Clause has no particular relevance to McCain and the following Clause, which it is reported McCaskill & Obama ATTEMPTED TO REMOVE shows that:

"; and Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936:"

It seems clear that McCaskill and Obama were attempting to create a blanket Resolution covering ALL FOREIGN BORN candidates.

Why do that if not to benefit a Foreign Born Democratic Candidate, who DID NOT HAVE A (PARENTAL) MILITARY BACKGROUND? McCain & (Dem Gov) Richardson did not need this resolution... nobody needed this Resolution UNLESS SOMEBODY IN THE RACE WAS BORN OUTSIDE THE USA & was "covering his/her (profanity removed)" and the only individual in the race that could apply to was Senator Obama! This in turn would show that the Senator is a liar who has been peddling untruths about his birth for at least 16 years!

The full article is here:

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/obama-born-in-kenya-new-information/#  
Grinch
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Whoville


122 posted 12-06-2008 05:35 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
I heard a radio announcement today that the U.S. Supreme Court will be addressing the issue on Monday.


I wouldn’t hold your breath if I were you. As I understand the situation it would be unconstitutional for the Supreme Court to hear a claim of ineligibility, they’ll have to throw it out for the same reason they threw out the challenge against McCain - the plaintiff has no standing to sue.

The Constitution seems clear regarding the process for determining eligibility and the procedure for any challenge, a written challenge must be presented to Congress, the Supreme Court would only get involved if the process laid out in the Constitution wasn’t followed.

For he Supreme Court to intercede they’d have to ignore the Constitution and act outside their Jurisdiction.
Denise
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123 posted 12-06-2008 10:41 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Here's an article that expresses perfectly my views on this matter.

What happens if it turns out that Barack Obama is not a "natural born" citizen of the United States? Does it really matter? He has won the popular vote; he has, in effect, won the Electoral College vote; and he has nominated an impressive array of high-powered people to lead the nation.

Should he be forced to relinquish the presidency simply because his mother reportedly was too pregnant to fly and was forced to deliver Obama in Kenya? What difference does it really make? Is he not the same person that he would have been had his mother actually made it back to Hawaii before he was born?

What would be the public reaction if the Supreme Court forced the state of Hawaii to release his birth certificate that revealed that he was actually born in Kenya and his birth "registered" in Hawaii? Would the millions of people who voted for Obama respect the Constitution and demand that he step aside? Or would they demand that the Constitution be ignored so Obama could take the oath to "… preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States"?

This scenario – in the unlikely event that it should unfold – would reveal just how deep and wide is the chasm between the two Americas that occupy the 50 now-divided states of America.

Every elected official takes an oath to "… preserve, protect and defend the Constitution …" and then many of them proceed to ignore both the oath and the Constitution. Hillary Clinton's reaction to Al Gore's failure to win the Electoral College was to declare that she would work to abandon the Constitutional system. Congress has repeatedly rejected efforts to establish rules or law that require every new legislative proposal to cite the constitutional authority for the proposal. Every time a new Congress convenes, the Constitution is pushed a little further back into irrelevance.

The system of governance created by the U.S. Constitution is unique in the world. It was created expressly to recognize that the government is limited by the Constitution and is empowered only by the consent of the people.

This government created by the Constitution no longer exists.

The America that would ignore the Constitution in order to welcome Obama into the White House now dominates the political machinery of both the executive and legislative branches of government. So thorough is this domination that the very sovereignty of the United States is in jeopardy.

The Americans who would demand inauguration of President Obama, whether he is a citizen or not, would not hesitate to subject the United States to a power that is not limited by the consent of the governed. If the "natural born" provision in the Constitution is irrelevant, then so is the provision that limits the power of the government.

Obama and his high-powered team have already declared their willingness to subject the sovereignty of the United States to the supreme power of the United Nations. The United Nations is constructed on the belief that government is the source of power – and grants, or denies, rights to individuals. Individuals have no rights that are not granted by government, and government has the innate power to enforce those rights by whatever means it may deem necessary.

The system of governance created by the U.S. Constitution cannot exist under the authority of the U.N. Obama and his team will embrace U.N. treaties that have been successfully stalled for years. They will embrace U.N. initiatives such as a new emissions-reduction scheme, a new global central banking system, new funding mechanisms for the U.N. and submission to the International Criminal Court.

On the other hand, the people who say Obama must step aside if he is not a natural born citizen have much work to do. It is too late to undo what the November election did, but it's not too late to begin to limit the damage. Every elected official who is an Obama supporter should be challenged to declare whether they would support inauguration of Obama were it proven that he is not a natural born citizen. Those who would support Obama in violation of the Constitution should be targeted now for removal in the next election.

Every parent who has a child in middle school or beyond should see that their children read and understand the U.S. Constitution. This essential knowledge cannot be left to the public schools. Every Parent-Teacher Association, every church and civic club, and every community organization should undertake a study of the Constitution, with emphasis on current policies that are not authorized by the Constitution.

If there is ever to be a United States of American again, it must begin with a united respect for our founding documents.



http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=82822
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


124 posted 12-06-2008 12:02 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
What happens if it turns out that Barack Obama is not a "natural born" citizen of the United States?


According to the Constitution Biden gets sworn in as President.

 
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