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Passions in Poetry

John McCain - The Keating Five

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JenniferMaxwell
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0 posted 10-01-2008 05:53 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

This site has links to a lot of interesting articles dealing with McCain's involvement in the Keating Five scandal.
http://mccainkeatingfive.com/
Huan Yi
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1 posted 10-01-2008 06:43 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

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McCain became enmeshed in a scandal during the 1980s as one of five United States Senators comprising the so-called "Keating Five".[89] Between 1982 and 1987, McCain had received $112,000 in lawful[90] political contributions from Charles Keating Jr. and his associates at Lincoln Savings and Loan Association, along with trips on Keating's jets[89] that McCain belatedly repaid two years later.[91] In 1987, McCain was one of the five senators from whom Keating contacted in order to prevent the government's seizure of Lincoln, and McCain met twice with federal regulators to discuss the government's investigation of Lincoln.[89] On his Keating Five experience, McCain has said: "The appearance of it was wrong. It's a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators, because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do."[92] In the end, McCain was cleared by the Senate Ethics Committee of acting improperly or violating any law or Senate rule, but was mildly rebuked for exercising "poor judgment".[92][90] In his 1992 re-election bid, the Keating Five affair was not a major issue,[93] and he won handily, gaining 56 percent of the vote to defeat Democratic community and civil rights activist Claire Sargent and independent former Governor Evan Mecham.[94]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain


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JenniferMaxwell
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2 posted 10-01-2008 06:48 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Thanks for the info and link, Huan. Was there any mention in that article about the following?

1. John McCain admitted to intentionally filing false income tax returns to defraud the IRS by not claiming thousands of dollars in gifts McCain and his family received from Charles Keating and Keating’s company. Years later, when the IRS noticed Keating’s company had written off the gifts to McCain as business expenses, McCain fessed up and admitted filing false returns and made a “donation” to the U.S. Treasury to cover the amount he defrauded American tax payers. (Committing tax fraud is one of the least offensive things John McCain has done over his career, but this article just focuses on his role in the Keating Five, and the Lincoln Savings and Loan scandal of the late 1980’s-early 1990’s). McCain also leaked information about the Keating Five to the press multiple times in an effort to appear above the other Senators in the scandal. A 1989 Phoenix New Times article summed it up best with their title - McCain: The Most Reprehensible of the Keating Five.


2. John McCain’s wife, Cindy McCain, along with her father, made a $359,000 investment in retail property owned by Charles Keating in 1986, a year before John McCain first met with federal regulators on behalf of Keating. Keating was later convicted on 73 counts of fraud, conspiracy, and other crimes. Years later, Cindy McCain sold her investment for $15,000,000.
JenniferMaxwell
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3 posted 10-01-2008 07:17 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

The penalties for tax fraud are pretty severe since it's considered a felony. Was McCain ever fined? Were charges ever filed? I mean, if he admitted filing fraudulent taxes, shouldn't he have been charged? I'm having trouble finding info on the tax fraud part. Anybody got a link or know about it?

Any person who willfully attempts to evade or defeat any tax imposed by this title or the payment thereof shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof:

Shall be imprisoned not more than 5 years
Or fined not more than $250,000 for individuals ($500,000 for corporations)
Or both, together with the costs of prosecution.
Denise
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4 posted 10-03-2008 02:53 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Were you able to dig up any dirt on Obama to share with us or do only Republicans come under your microscope, Jen?
Mysteria
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5 posted 10-03-2008 03:27 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Here you go Denise - there is a little mud on everyone sometime, but it all comes off in the wash.     How you keeping?

Barackwater

Here are more:
Barack Scandals

I would still vote for him, but that is my own choice.     I find it sad that mud slinging even exists to be honest, but it has for generations of politicians, and will continue.
oceanvu2
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6 posted 10-03-2008 04:02 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Hi Denise  -- Aw, Jennifer doesn't need much help digging up dirt on Obama.  The Alley is full of it, dirt, that is, on Obama, ranging from the almost credible to the completely inane.

Huan Yi -- It was indeed a interesting victory for McCain over Claire Sargent.  

Arizona is somewhat odd, having a majority of conservatives in its population, but not adverse to electing Democrats. Evan Mecham ran as an "independent," because he was a disgraced Republican.  Recall proceedings were started even before his inauguration as Governor of Arizona. He was duly investigated, impeached and removed from office by the overwhelmingly Republican State House and Senate.  McCain's "victory" over Mecham was a predictable repudiation by Republicans and Democrats alike of a rather dubious "character."

Mecham's impeachment and Keating's imprisonment were part of the theater of the absurd that dominated Arizona politics at the time.  To be fair, Mecham was acquitted of the criminal charges brought against him, but the impeachment rested on his misuse of state funds and obstruction of justice.

All:  When one goes to right wing web sites for "research," one gets a right wing view point.  And vice versa.  This is pretty much to be expected, and much of it is nonsense on both sides.  Spouting nonsense also seems to be part of American politics, as does an unseemly amount of downright hatred and vitriol based not on a candidates record, accomplishments or lack thereof, but on some sort of fear that if things change, life is goig to be terrible, or if things remain the same, life is going to be terrible.

Because I'm a registered voter, a citizen, and probably at least as opinionated as anyone else, I do care who becomes the next President.  Personally, I'm sorry it won't be Hillary Clinton, but I don't think either Obama or McCain need to be characterized as devils incarnate.

Jim

[This message has been edited by oceanvu2 (10-03-2008 06:25 PM).]

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7 posted 10-03-2008 04:09 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Bless your buttons, Jimbeaux!
JenniferMaxwell
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8 posted 10-03-2008 04:40 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

In the Obama threads on this site we’ve seen a blatant racial slur and a couple of “poems” comparing Obama to Hitler get a pass from the mods and site owner. I think bringing up questions regarding McCain’s ethics violation in the Keating Five and Paxon scandals plus his admitted tax fraud, pales in comparison on the mud slinging scale.  

Which reminds me, when is Palin, who is also under investigation for two possible ethics violations, going to release her tax returns?


[This message has been edited by JenniferMaxwell (10-03-2008 05:26 PM).]

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9 posted 10-03-2008 06:49 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

She did release them. I saw them about an hour ago on Fox News. It's amazing what you can find out if you watch a REAL news channel.

Hey Sharon and Jim, I'm fine, how are you? I wasn't asking if anyone could provide dirt on Obama, I was asking if Jen had uncovered any herself, or if she only reserves her microscope for Republicans.
JenniferMaxwell
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10 posted 10-03-2008 07:05 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Yes, it's up on Reuters now. She released 2006 and 2007 just today. Why only those two years? Not absolutely sure but think Obama released all his from 2000 on and Biden for the last ten years.
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11 posted 10-03-2008 08:23 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Jenn, don't "think", but please, be sure.



Thanks!

JenniferMaxwell
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12 posted 10-03-2008 08:42 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Don't worry, Sunshine, I'm sure if my facts are wrong, someone's going to speak up, perhaps a Fox News watcher.

Denise
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13 posted 10-03-2008 10:15 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

The only thing I'll be watching for, Jen, is a straight answer to my previous question.
threadbear
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14 posted 10-03-2008 10:26 PM       View Profile for threadbear   Email threadbear   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for threadbear

  As far as choice of sources for link posting, I would have to agree with you, Jim.  Daily KOS, Huffington Post, Right-Wing  News:  none of these sites EVER give you the balanced story.  All stories are told from the same decided slant without regard to the ‘other side of the coin.’  Nope, never gets flipped, at least from what I see, and I usually am on one of these sites daily.  Maybe I’m just weird, but I get almost as much joy reading the flippant responses on these sites as I do in a logical debate.   If you want to mount a good defense, you have to know what your enemy thinks.  A lot of it is just youthful opposition, but most of it is pretty mean-spirited ad hominem blog posts meant to please the choir.

       Oh, I HAVE to mention the tremendous repartee that occurred between my anti-hero, Barney Frank, and self-professed hero, Bill O’Reilly.  You don’t have to love or hate either of them to enjoy this swashbuckling in your face
interview.   I, for one, was glad to see Barney get it, for exactly the reasons described in an earlier post:  about he is a coward and refused to atone for his stupidity while still blaming the Repub’s. They have enough troubles on their own, Barn-Dog, without your lies and lack of commiseration falsely adding to them. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,432173,00.html.

   As far as the Keating Five scenario went down, there are moral laws and criminal laws.  McCain broke moral laws, admitted to them, and started to understand the necessity for passing laws to limit lobbyist influence.  I don’t have a problem with a politician who owns up to his mistake then tries to atone for it later with a correct action bill.   Most political people don’t even bring up the K-5 anymore since McCain/Feingold Act was a direct result of politicians fighting the old boys club in order to do something right for the general public.  He was censured for it.  As was Joe Biden for his multiple plagiarisms.  And JB also said he was wrong and sorry.   Bully for both of them.   To be honest, I’ve come sooooo close to running for public office on two different occasions, but my own past demons/skeletons are not ‘clean enough’ to run.  I dare say most of us would probably get wet under that umbrella.  We’ve made it our own to say that politicians have to be squeaky clean any more, unless of course, you have the media’s arm around your shoulder.
JenniferMaxwell
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15 posted 10-03-2008 10:44 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"Were you able to dig up any dirt on Obama to share with us or do only Republicans come under your microscope, Jen?"

If by "dirt" you mean something like McCain's womanizing, adultery and ethics violations, tax fraud, nope, haven't found anything like that on Obama. Have you?

Just so you know, I don't discriminate or promote on basis of party membership alone as some seem to do. I eliminated several Democratic candidates because of what I discovered after putting them under my "microscope" and kept a Republican on my list of would support.

Hope that answers your question, Denise.

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16 posted 10-03-2008 10:54 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I watched that video, tb. O'Reilly is really pretty rude, loud and kept interrupting Franks. Seemed a little silly to me and hardly the way to conduct a proper interview, but what the heck, like Ann Coulter, O'Reilly's only real claim to fame is his sensationalism and obnoxiousness.

The thing about McCain and the Keating Five, well, I know he keeps saying he learned his lesson, but then he turned around and did the same darn thing again with the Paxson scandal.


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17 posted 10-04-2008 11:00 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

If I were so inclined to "dig up dirt" on Obama, I wouldn't have to exert too much energy, starting with his own statement on the question of when life begins being above his pay grade. Yet admitting that he  can't even attempt to answer that question with any degree of certainty, how can he support abortion if he has any doubt that it may actually be a life that is being exterminated by that procedure, let alone vote against legislation protecting children already born alive after botched abortions? He also stated that he wouldn't want his daughters "punished with a baby" if they found themselves to be pregnant but didn't want to be pregnant for whatever reason. I don't know, where does personal responsibility for one's actions come into play?

To me, Obama has the moral integrity of a flea, without even delving into his political, business, spiritual and/or personal associations with people or groups like Rezko, Ayers, Dorne, the Rev. Wright, and ACORN (arguably a big player in our current national financial crisis, not to mention their involvement in registration and voter fraud benefiting the Democratic party).

Personally, I'll take McCain any day, even knowing that if McCain is elected, we will be subject to at least another four years of venemous verbal vomit from the Left.
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18 posted 10-04-2008 12:01 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

Hi Denise!  I really like "venomous verbal vomit."  A great phrase.  The rest of the post expresses a belief not universally held to attack a belief not universally held, which seems to be part of the alley process, but has little to do with facts.  Obama said he was not qualified to make a definitive statement on the abortion issue.  OK.  Sounds like a pretty straightforward statement, agreed with or not.

BEAR:  My wife is a politics junkie, and because I like to keep her company, I watch my share of the cable news clowns from Billo and Beck and Dobbs through Keitho.  Olberman is my favorite because I find him to be the funniest of the lot, and when he chooses to go off on one of his tirades, he lets viewers know up front that he's about to go off on a tirade.

Also, if skeletons in the closet disqualify one from running from office, there probably wouldn't be any politicians at all, except for Barney Frank, who let his skeleton out of the closet so many years ago I'm not sure he was ever in one.  Even Jimmy Carter admitted in a Playboy (gasp) interview, that he had lusted in his heart. If that were a disqualification for running for office, it would kick out just about every man and woman on earth.

I don't think that the Presidential election is a joke.  I do think it's more important to pay attention to the candidates than to pay much attention to what self aggrandizing pundits on either side have to say about them.  But I laugh anyway.  Probably disqualifies me from office.

Jimbeaux
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19 posted 10-04-2008 12:20 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

What you seem to be saying, Denise, is that since Obama doesn’t agree with your personal belief on when life begins, that makes him an immoral man. Conversely, if he doesn’t agree with one of your personal beliefs would that make you an immoral woman?

Even theologians struggle with the question of when life begins, what makes you so certain you know the “right” answer? Does God whisper in your ear and tell you things He doesn’t tell Obama? Can you enlighten me and give me a biblical reference that deals specifically with abortion?

Perhaps Obama, being the thinking man he is, pondered the question of why God allows natural abortions (miscarriages) to happen ending the “life” of a fetus and in some cases actually ordered the slaughter of infants and fetuses, (see quotes from Samuel and Hosea below) and came to the conclusion that indeed the question of when life begins in God’s view was beyond his knowing - above his pay grade.

"their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." (Hosea 13:16)
"slay both man and woman, infant and suckling...." (I Samuel 15:3)

Thanks for mentioning Carter, Jim. To me he’s the perfect example of a true Christian.


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20 posted 10-04-2008 01:15 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

There's plenty to laugh about in politics, that's for sure, Jim. But Obama did not say he could not make a definite statement on the abortion issue, he said he couldn't make a difinitive statement on the issue of when life begins. I see a distinction there.

No, Jen, I take issue with Obama's moral integrity, not because he doesn't agree with me, but because not being sure of when life begins himself, he would still condone the practice of abortion at all. If someone were convinced in their own mind that life doesn't begin until birth, then I could at least understand their approval of abortion. That's not the case with Obama, according to his own words. If I were not sure, I would err on the side of life, and not risk terminating a life. That is what should be considered above our pay grade.

In my view, God is the only legitimate arbiter of life and death. He gives and takes away according to His purposes. I believe in the sanctity of life, that life is His gift to us and that we are usurpers of His authority when we attempt to interject ourselves into these issues, whether it be in the abortion issue, infanticide (which allowing babies born alive to die after botched abortions is) or euthenasia.

And lest we forget, Obama is not God.  
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21 posted 10-04-2008 01:36 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

So, Denise, you’ve decided to vote for a self-admitted fornicator instead of a guy who simply admits to not knowing the answer to the question of when life begins. Are there only nine Commandments in your Bible or something?

And of course, since you believe that “God is the only legitimate arbiter of life and death” you must also oppose the death penalty. Correct? You’re one of those people who’d be willing to spend ten of thousands of dollars a year of tax payer money to provide for the housing and feeding of a convicted child rapist/killer. Right?
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22 posted 10-04-2008 02:24 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Except for Barney Frank, Jimbeaux? What about his lover who was a bigwig at Fannie May while it was going down the tubes and while Barney was giving outraged speeches in Congress on how Fannie and Freddie were fine and the warnings against them were simply a Republican bashing aiming to discredit them?

Btw, the "lover" is now in the private sector, dedicating his life to the world of pottery. Not even Robert Ludlum could have made this stuff up

Denise, I applaud your efforts but you're wasting your time here.
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23 posted 10-04-2008 02:38 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"Our economy, I think still—the fundamentals of our economy are strong." —John McCain, speaking on the morning of September 15

Are you better off today than you were 7 years ago when the Republicans took over Washington DC?

Then: Overall debt was $5.7 trillion.
Now: The National Debt is $9.5 Trillion!

Then: - A gallon of gas cost $1.56
Now: - A gallon of gas costs over $4.00

Then: - Federal budget surplus over $200 billion
Now: - FY-2008 federal deficit over $407 billion

Then: - Unemployment was 3.4%
Now: - Unemployment hits 5-year high, 6.1%

"One of the giant mortgage companies at the heart of the credit crisis paid $15,000 a month from the end of 2005 through last month to a firm owned by Senator John McCain’s campaign manager"
...........................................

By wagging a finger at Denise, Balladeer, are you trying to silence her, take away her right to voice her opinion?

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24 posted 10-04-2008 02:49 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Of course not...and she knows exactly what I mean.

This ends any direct message exchange with you, btw.
 
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