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Passions in Poetry

Gimmick or genius?

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moonbeam
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0 posted 08-30-2008 05:21 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam



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1 posted 08-30-2008 08:25 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Depends who you ask. Democrats will say gimmick and republicans will say genius.

You expect something different?
moonbeam
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2 posted 08-30-2008 09:59 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Yes, due to testosterone, amongst other possibilities.

Is American politics really so simple?  Lucky you.
JenniferMaxwell
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3 posted 08-30-2008 10:39 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I'm a Dem and my first thought is the same as you have about Obama, Balladeer. She's unqualified, plus she needs a serious makeover. Pearls with fleece, get real! And the do, that went out in the 80's. No McCain and no big hair!  

Not A Poet
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4 posted 08-30-2008 10:57 AM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

The real irony I see is some of the Obama compaign have already been attacking her lack of experience! And she has how much more than Obama?
JenniferMaxwell
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5 posted 08-30-2008 11:12 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

She has 0 level experience on the national/international level, far less than Obama has.

My feeling is that like McCain, she's a GOP sacrificial lamb. The Republicans aren't going to waste a potential 2012 presidential candidate on an election it now looks like they're going to lose.

The only draw this woman has is to the fundie base. She's already under investigation for an ethics violation, and her managerial style is the same as Bush's, agree with me no matter how wrong I am or you're out.

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6 posted 08-30-2008 11:37 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Unqualified?
Her "qualifications":
1) The chief executive of Alaska
2) She invested 5 billion in state savings
3) Overhauled Education in Alaska
4) Implimented the Seniors Benefits Program
5) Started the oversight for the big oil in Alaska
6) She overhauled the state ethics laws
7) She chairs the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission (concerve resources while still drilling)
8) Chairs NGA Natural Resources Committe (Environmental protection)
9) While mayor, reduced taxes and increased services, and brought businesses to town.
10) Chairs the Alaska Conservation Commission (Geez, all this conservation, you'd think she was a democrat)
11) President of the Alaska Conference of Mayors
12) Served on numerous boards and commissions throughout the state.
13) Head of the Christian Fellowhip of Atheletes
14) Degree in Political Science (a minor; however...)

Barack Obama's "Qualifications":
1) Illinios State Senate
2) Senator from Illinios to the US Senate
3) Co-sponsored a bill to put the US budget online
4) Worked as a community organizer with low income families
5) A member of the Foriegn Relations Committee
6) Member of the Veteran's Affairs Committee
7) Member of the Committee on Health Education labor and pensions
8) Member of the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs

I don't see Sen. Obama doing too much leadership, whereas, I see Gov .Palin leading damned near everything she comes into contact with. She has had to work with members on both sides of the isle to pass legislation. In order to get between 65% and 80% (depending on the polls) approval rating, she MUST work well with people of all types. She has taken on people of her own party in order to further what was right for the constituents...
Sen. Obama chose a long-time Washington insider as his running mate.

So, where is he more qualified than she is? Just because he has worked within the "good-ol-boy network" lon ger than she has? She has been in leadership positions since high school.. NONE of the biographies that I found online had him leading ANYTHING other than being a senator... and in follower roles during that time.

What would you attempt to do...if you knew you could not fail?.
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JenniferMaxwell
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7 posted 08-30-2008 11:49 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Oh please, nothing like skewing a list to try to make your point, Ringo.

I'm sure her being the head of the Christian Fellowship of Athletes is really going to put the fear of God into countries like Russia and Iran.
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8 posted 08-30-2008 02:26 PM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

Jennifer,

While I don't expect you to embrace Sarah Palen as Vice Presidential candidate, I would hope that you would put up a valid arguement as to why she should not be.

Her style of dress is very Alaskan.  We wear polar fleece with everything.  That picture was taken at a building site which would be very informal dress.  Maybe (gasp) she is wearing jeans too!!!

As far as the investigation, I think that if anyone sat down and actually read what is being investigated they would understand that it (like many political investigations is a huge drain of money).  The media finally had something to write about in Alaksa - and the story is interesting.  Did she do something wrong?  It's pretty much been determined that she hasn't.

So, I'll sit back and watch this debate for awhile.  However, I'd like to see it debated on her merits - not her hairstyle or fashion (or lack of) fashion sense.  If you have ever been to Alaska you'd understand that neither is of high priority among Alaskans.

I suggest that anyone who wants to understand what Governor Palen has done is to google the Alaksa Daily News.  It is the main newspaper in the state (and yes, we only have one main newspaper).  She does not deserve to be deified as a political saint, but she does deserve to have issues discussed, not one picture that may, or may not, be flattering.

Gimmick or genius?  Could it be both?

Alison
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9 posted 08-30-2008 03:44 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

A gimmick is an object/device, not a being.  Therefore by process of elimination she must needs be a genius if locked between only those two possibilities.
Grinch
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10 posted 08-30-2008 04:02 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
Democrats will say gimmick and republicans will say genius.


And if you’re neither Democrat or Republican, like me, you might say it’s neither gimmick nor genius. It’s just common sense.

I think she’d make a good VP for the same reason I think Obama would make a good President. They both seem honestly committed to making a difference. I also think they care about people and that their inexperience, so far seen as a hindrance, is a possible advantage when it comes to reviewing an established and perhaps entrenched system with an unbiased eye.

As an outsider looking in and disregarding political lines my ideal would be Sarah Palin as as VP and Obama as President - or oddly enough vice-versa.

[This message has been edited by Grinch (08-30-2008 06:32 PM).]

Not A Poet
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11 posted 08-30-2008 04:03 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

Well, it was Hillary, a fellow democrat, who said "and Obama made a speach in 2002." As far as I can see, that is the sum total of his "experience." So he's been a senator for almost 4 years now. Trouble is, the only thing he has done since then is run for president.
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12 posted 08-30-2008 04:33 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

lol Ess, I wasn't of course referring to the person, but to the motivation behind her appointment i.e. is it a short termist ploy which may backfire in the long term or an idea of pure genius, a win win decision all round.

Gimmick n.

"1. An innovative stratagem or scheme employed especially to promote a project"
JenniferMaxwell
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13 posted 08-30-2008 05:14 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Alison, just so you know, I was kidding about the makeover thing, that's why I put the smiley face after big hair.

Of course her looks and how she dresses aren't important but what she stands for and what she believes, is. And, were she a Democrat and had Obama chosen her for his running mate, I still wouldn't support her. Cross my heart and hope to die if I'm telling a lie.  

I haven't read the Alaska Daily News, but I have read enough about her to know how to spell her name and figure out that what she stands for won’t get her my vote. She’s opposed to a woman’s right to choose, even in cases of incest or rape, she supports drilling in ANWR, and wants creationism taught in public schools. She doesn’t believe global climate change is a real issue, and for heavens sake she even opposed having polar bears put on the endangered species list so it wouldn’t interfere with big oil’s interests, and she kills animals for sport. How cruel!  

According to her own words, she has no idea what a VP is supposed to do and has never shown any interest in or knowledge of foreign policy or international affairs:

"In an interview with Alaska Business Monthly shortly after she took office in 2007, Palin was asked about the upcoming surge. She said she hadn't thought about it. "I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq,"

She may be good for Alaska, though that remains to be seen since she’s only served something like a year and a half as Governor, but to my way of thinking she just isn’t qualified either by experience or interest to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency.
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14 posted 08-30-2008 06:41 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


“Is American politics really so simple?”

Unfortunately, for enough to decide an election,
yes,

how else would Obama be a candidate?

Without the color of his skin, Obama would
be, or less than, John Edwards before his fling thing .


.
JenniferMaxwell
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15 posted 08-30-2008 06:54 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Nothing like tossing a little racism into the mix to muddy the issue.

Palin just said NUK-U-LER. Please, not four more years of Bushisms! Send the big hair hockey Mom back to moose country!

JenniferMaxwell
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16 posted 08-30-2008 07:15 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


“I think she is the most inexperienced person on a major party ticket in modern history,” said presidential historian Matthew Dallek.
Huan Yi
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17 posted 08-30-2008 07:18 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"Nothing like tossing a little racism into the mix to muddy the issue"


Obama has done more than that
which has worked very well for him.


.
Alison
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18 posted 08-30-2008 07:23 PM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

Kidding or not, Jennifer, I am insulted by your last post.  The fact is that you have a limited perspective on issues that involve Alaska.  Most people do.  We are an isolated state that deals with environmental, cultural, isolation and ignorance issues like few in states in our nation.  Your response to me only serves to show the truth in my statement.  After you have read about the issues in Alaska and you stop speaking long enough for the woman to actually speak, you might be surprised to find out that your immediate bias was unfounded.  She has been in the national lime light what one day?  Give her a chance.

I am not asking that you vote for McCain.  I am not even stating that I am voting for McCain.  I think that your humor is not very funny.  It's easy to toss out insults and then hide behind the use of humor.

We are not a stupid state, Jennifer.  We are a very wealthy state with a lot of in state issues that involve all aspects of our lives.  If the Governor was a land raping ruler, we would not be in a hot debate over the Pebble Mine right now?  Have you heard of the Pebble Mine, Jennifer?  Do you know that as Governor she has not pushed her personal issues on this state?  We are a very large pro choice, right to choose area.  Governor Palen is answering questions about her beliefs - that does not mean that she forces down the throats of Alaskans while acting as Governor.  We are not that stupid.  She has an extremely high approval rating as Governor.  We are not thrilled on many levels to see her possibly leave the state to serve in Washingtong.  Alaska happens to be fiercely proud of her, and we have every reason to be.

What do you know about the Polar bear issue other than that she does not support it being place on the ESL by the Federal Government?  What do you know about the investigation that she has been under?  What do you actually know about drilling in Alaska and the impacts on the environment?  I am not being sarcastic.  I am truly interested.  What did you know about Alaska prior to yesterday?

The fact is you have a right to your opinion, just becareful how you voice it.

Alison
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19 posted 08-30-2008 07:25 PM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

quote:
Palin just said NUK-U-LER. Please, not four more years of Bushisms! Send the big hair hockey Mom back to moose country!



My apologies.  Our posts crossed.  That is the quote that I found to be totally out of line.

A
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20 posted 08-30-2008 08:11 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I'm sorry if what was meant to be light hearted banter offended you Alison. I truly am and I most humbly apologize.

Ok, let's get serious. First of all the investigation into her possible ethics violation isn't over yet as you seemed to imply in a previous post or perhaps I misunderstood you. I'll check your post again later. The investigation is still ongoing and just recently she admitted that indeed she wasn't telling the truth about some of the facts. In other words, she lied. She also lied today when she said she opposed the "bridge to nowhere". She was a staunch supporter from the very beginning and then later flip flopped when the pork barrel project was exposed.

Secondly, as for shoving her beliefs down peoples throats, she's already fired many who disagreed with her or won't do her bidding. Not only "troopergate" but the librarian who wouldn't give her a "yes" on imposing censorship. Do you believe in censorship, that libraries should be forced to follow a politcal or religious agenda? There are many other instances, but please, save my poor typing fingers and do a little googling.

I've already listed the policies that are part of her agenda that I disagree with. Could you tell me which of those you support? Do you think a 13 year old victim of incest or violent rape should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term if she doesn't want to, if it puts her physical, mental or emotional well being at serious risk? Do you think that creationism should be taught in public schools - what about the separation of church and state? Do you think it's ok to kill sentient beings for sport?

I'm really interested in hearing why you think she would be a good VP. Could you list her positions on national issues, foreign policy issues, list her credentials and experience in those areas?

[This message has been edited by JenniferMaxwell (08-30-2008 08:42 PM).]

Alison
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21 posted 08-30-2008 08:46 PM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

Actually, Jennifer, I don't believe that I said that she would be a good VP.  I believe I said to not form bias based on appearance and where she is from.  What I did say is she has a very high approval rating here in the state that she governs.  What I did ask is your level of information about the examples that you are referring to.  It's easy to base opinions on sound bites.  What I did say is let her speak and form your opinions based on what she says, not based on the information that you have gathered since yesterday.

I'll make up my mind the same as everyone else.  I'll filter information and try to make the most informed deciscion that I can.  I have no intentions of jumping on a flurry of hastily formed opinions by those who have limited view of the issues.

Humor is easily misinterpreted in a discussion like this.  Perhaps you meant to be funny.  Perhaps some were amused.  I like to think that I have a pretty good sense of humor - guess I just didn't think you were being very funny.  

So, Jennifer, this is my suggestion - don't jump to opinions.  McCain made his decison.  It's a done deal.  Now the campaign is on and we'll all be learning a lot about both Presidential candidates and their running mates.  

There is some good that I see coming out of McCain's choice.  People are interested.  We can not say that we don't have choices and we can not say that the candidates are clones of candidates of the past.  Is this good or bad?  

I have no idea anymore than anyone else who has responded on this thread.  So, I am going to put my money where my mouth is and shut up and listen.  I have no intentions in changing my original plan how to vote, but it won't hurt me to listen.

And, I'll also say that if our Governor remains in Alaska, the working class Alaskans that I know will be happy.  

Alison
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22 posted 08-30-2008 08:47 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

It's easy enough to be led down a garden path when being asked to support something, and then find out after other things come to light that things were "otherwise dispersed, renamed or misplaced". It happens often, and it happens in most of our lives, only they are not governmentally beneficial to anyone else but us.

Too many people get wrapped up in the "they didn't KNOW?" category to not realize that we are all human, and we all make mistakes.

Everyone wants our governmental folk to walk on water.

Can you?

Give the woman 10 minutes of your time, folks, before you start casting stones.

And I mean, 10 REAL TIME minutes, not sound bites.

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23 posted 08-30-2008 10:23 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

There is a roost somewhere waiting for the chickens to come home. I have to say in all sincerity...I LOVE It! All of the Democrats who poo-poo'd anyone saying that Obama was inexperienced, that Washington needed new faces, new ideas, Washington outsiders...now cry about the same supposed lack of experience in McCain's choice. Who says there is no humor in politics??? She's governed more people than Obama. She's commanded more military than Obama. All the side-steppin you all did with Obama's lack of experience is coming back to say hello.

It's a wonderful thing to watch.

Sure, the Democrats will mud-sling at her, just like they did for so many judge appointees. That's what they do. I think she can handle it.
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24 posted 08-30-2008 10:28 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

'm really interested in hearing why you think she would be a good VP. Could you list her positions on national issues, foreign policy issues, list her credentials and experience in those areas?

Gee, Jennifer, can you list Obama's experience in those areas?

You seem to have done a lot of digging on her. Did you do that much digging on Obama's VP choice, too, or did you just accept him without bothering because he's a Democrat?

She doesn’t believe global climate change is a real issue, and for heavens sake she even opposed having polar bears put on the endangered species list so it wouldn’t interfere with big oil’s interests, and she kills animals for sport. How cruel!  

I have to say, Jennifer, in all of the posts you've made in the Alley, I've never seen you so flustered! That makes me thing she is the right choice for sure
 
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