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Gimmick or genius?

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Balladeer
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150 posted 09-04-2008 01:33 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

You accused JM of losing it a while back.  At least she was getting hyped up about what she had researched on Palin.  You were simply lashing out at another poster.  Putting words into the mouth of someone else is a bit below the belt.  Posting something that looks like a quote from a young lady which includes coarse references to genitalia is completely out of order.  I always thought of you as a model gentleman for the younger members here to emulate - I hope you think on this, and then do the gentlemanly thing and apologise to Jennifer.

I see nothing wrong with my assessment. Ms. Maxwell has taken sound bytes, innuendos, insults and right-wing websites to do everything possible to villify Governor Palen in any way she can. Arguments she has presented have been corrected several times by Alison with actual facts, which she did in a polite and respectful manner and it didn't really matter. To project that someone with that agenda would find some way to create an adverse scenario should the decision to have the boy onstage be rejected, I think it is reasonable to assume, by her record in this thread. I presented the avenue that type of scenario would possibly take. If you consider sausage a coarse reference to genitalia, I apologize. The sausage was thrown in the trash

I always thought of you as a model gentleman for the younger members here to emulate - I hope you think on this, and then do the gentlemanly thing and apologise to Jennifer.

I try to be a gentleman a good representative of the site whenever I can.  I am nice to nice people. I am decent to decent people.  I show respect to people I believe deserve respect.

dragging your pregnant unmarried teen and your special needs infant along on the campaign trial and using them for photo ops

No one who would write something like that fits any of the above categories. It is a vile, personal, indecent,  factless attack on a decent mother who has raised a large family, with one child who needs special attention, and has managed to have a good career at the same time. I cannot imagine one woman saying that against another woman, especially when the only motivation is due to the fact that the person attacked is a candidate of an opposing political party. Being the father of a special needs daughter myself, I find it even more abhorrent. Perhaps if she had such a child herself, she would understand better how reprehensible such a statement is, but I would not wish that on anyone.

Apologize? If this lowers your opinion of me in your eyes, I'm sorry, but that's something that will not happen to anyone who would make such comments.

Bob K
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151 posted 09-04-2008 01:40 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


Dear Alison,

          I am glad you asked.  I hate being ambiguous and being misunderstood if I can avoid it.  I am in fact stating my personal values here.  I find that unless I state them they  get, from time to time, misunderstood.  I have found no evidence of you doing so, but I have found examples of this within this thread from other writers, such as Balladeer, and on other threads from other writers.  Balladeer and I have reached a place where we are pretty much mutually respectful in calling attention to such things, but this has not always been the case.  I find that if I let folks know what the standards are that I think are appropriate and to which I try to hold myself, it keeps the whole dialogue more adult when I try to suggest they might try to keep to similar standards.  I hate political smears, no matter who originates them, and confronting them seems generally a useful policy.  That's a personal standard as well, but I find that folks don't get so upset with me when they find I get angry at Democrats who use slurs and who don't stand up for human rights values as easily as I do Republicans or martians for that matter.  One Person on another forum suggested that I kept bringing up the same old stuff and that s/he was tired of it.  (It's on another current thread, one about sleaze, as I recall; so you can have a look yourself, should you be so moved.)  I keep coming back to the same points because they never seem to get settled.  And one of them has to do with being willing to quote sources to make a point.

     Another has to do with making sure the sources are trustworthy.  

     I've had this discussion with Balladeer and I think it's useful to open it up to you and whomever wishes to join it.  All of us have our favorite sources.  Many of them are politically biased, however, and we need to use those with caution.  I, for example, tend to limit my quotes from The Nation to places where I find them absolutely necessary for expression of opinions.  If I use them to establish fact, I will try to use other more objective sources as well.  It makes what I have to say more understandable and more believable to people who aren't disposed to agree with me in the first place.  It's courteous.  I was also trying top find a list of publications that both Balladeer and I thought were mutually respectable, that both of us would accept as having a good loyalty to the truth more than to political vantage points.  The Christian Science Monitor  and [i}The Economist[/i]  both seemed pretty solid to both of us at the time, though I won't speak for how Balladeer feels about them now.  I think Wikipedia is generally pretty solid, though it does have flaws; Balladeer was somewhat more dubious the last I checked.

     Simply because I don't agree with everything that Balladeer says doesn't mean that I think he doesn't have valid or interesting things to say.  I am sometimes interested in his source material.  I sometimes will want to check it out myself, even if I don't agree with him or it.  This is because I'm a Liberal and believe in informing myself on as many side of a discussion as possible.  I can always learn something, and often I can learn the most from people who don't agree with me.  If I start pretending they're silly or stupid, I loose all sense of proportion on the issue and get a bloated sense of my own importance, which is always a great deal less than I think it is.  I restate that because I can't afford to get carried away by the false grandeur of my own arguements or the sound of my own voice.

     And even if I agree with people and the things they say, this doesn't mean that I have to agree that the sources they use or the particular argument they make is correct.  I may be obligated to disagree on the particulars, even if I agree in general.  My loyalty is in the end not to a party but to the best view of the truth that I can come up with.
    
  Even if you may not agree with what people say, they may be able to give you useful sources you wouldn't find otherwise.  Even if you do agree with people, you may need to use other sources than they recommend.

     I have been restating my basic point of view here.  It's often misunderstood.  I hope I haven't left you puzzled yet again; it's never been my intention.

Yours, Bob Kaven.
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152 posted 09-04-2008 02:09 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp


Bob, to stick in my two cents (and to show how far offline a topic can get ), you are correct in requesting proof about Gore's comment. According to Snopes,....

The "Al Gore said he 'invented' the Internet" put-downs were misleading, out-of-context distortions of something he said during an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN's "Late Edition" program on 9 March 1999. When asked to describe what distinguished him from his challenger for the Democratic presidential nomination, Senator Bill Bradley of New Jersey, Gore replied (in part):

During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

Clearly, although Gore's phrasing might have been a bit clumsy (and perhaps self-serving), he was not claiming that he "invented" the Internet (in the sense of having designed or implemented it), but that he was responsible, in an economic and legislative sense, for fostering the development the technology that we now know as the Internet.

So there you have it. Does saying "taking the initiative to create the internet" means he claimed to create the Internet? Well, a Republican would say yes if they wanted to use it and a Democrat would say no, trying to reject it. It's all politics, Bob, and you know how that goes. As we have come to have Bush-isms, that was a Gore-ism. Nothing more, nothing less...

Mysteria
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153 posted 09-04-2008 02:27 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Dang, said I was going to read and stay out of this, but here goes...

For what it’s worth, I know Balladeer (Michael) personally, and wasn’t going to say a word, but I think we all know how passionate he is about his politics, but he is equally passionate about people.  He is one of the kindest, smartest, and caring people I know.  This thread serves as a good example of how the internet can distort words, how they are said, or taken, and tarnish any person’s halo.  The beauty of this site is that Ron has given us all a forum to voice our opinions while showing respect for each other’s opinion while we do it.  I think if you show respect - you get it back.

I remember a saying my mom taught me and I still pull out of my bags of tricks, and it was, "Well honey, if they are talking about you then at least they are leaving someone else alone."      

I think a lot of people are talking Palin today and leaving Obama alone.  So, is that a good or bad thing?  Palin's speech is going to dig up a lot of things to research that may do her some good, but in my opinion, more bad once you start digging as I did.   What I find amazing is that any research on both candidates in question will surface both bad and good judgment, because they are human.  So, back to square one – who will do the best job for the country and forget digging up “stuff” about them.  I remember a time when who a candidate was personally didn’t even matter, it was the party that counted and their platform of change.  

I watched Palin’s speech again this morning on TiVo before writing this.  She is like just about every hockey mom I know living here too, strong, educated, independent, and over-opinionated.  She just needed to be wearing Lululemon head to toe, and she could have been any mom I see at Ringette hockey here.  Just like the moms here, Palin is confident, obviously well-educated, and the simple fact is, she will be subject to severe criticism if she could win.  All the things she says she stands for would indeed suffer, like her family, a special needs child, her country, and even herself.  They say women rule with their hearts, men with their heads, and these times require serious head sense if you ask me, but who is right?  

Here are just a few things I didn't like about Palin’s sarcastic attacks on Obama, and the Democrats.  I still was as I said very impressed with her delivery, confidence, and presentation, who would not be?  

Firstly, taking shots at people that do public service or demeaning that role was unfair.  I have done my dues over the years for my community and it is every bit as important as what McCain did for his country, so that is a poor leg to be standing on.  Both were necessary positions to be filled.   Both leave obvious scars, some visible, some not.  Obama could have left college and started a great career but instead went into the masses to help the poor, because it was needed.  The remark about using the election and change to benefit his career doesn’t fly with me one bit.

To also forget the fact that Badin suffered trauma equally as disturbing as McCain’s, in loosing a wife and child really bugged me.  Just because someone serves in war, no matter how honorable that is, and I really respect those that do, does not to me in anyway make it any less than serving one’s country at home.  Both are necessary.

What I simply hope after all the dust settles and the arguments are done, is that the President you elect is the best candidate to take care of business, and I do mean business.  There is a huge debt in the USA, a mess that needs cleaning up from that awful war, and an energy crisis that needs addressing.  The future of the USA and their neighbours is at stake more than ever before, in my opinion.

There is not a day goes by I don’t think of New York and 911, and when this election rolls around, picture who you think could stand there on your behalf, or somewhere similar if it ever happened again, heaven forbid!

I guess I am a diehard, as I made a thread in the lounge when Obama first became Senator, and I told my son the day it happened, that man will be President one day, you watch!  He said, “Dream on!”  I didn’t say, “First African American President, I simply said, President.”   My son for what it is worth is a businessman, and has a company also in the USA as well as Canada, and the “Republican” if you will in our family, and I am as you can tell the “Democrat” or Liberal here.   We argue nicely all the time, it is acute stimulation for the mind I started with him very early in life. I respect his mind, his integrity, and his business sense, but this time we are sure butting heads here.  

Poetdevine (Sharon) Nice to “see” you.  I loved that clip of the daughter wetting the baby's hair myself, and it sure was a precious moment and the one that screamed to me, PANIC!  Palin has her hands full, and although she is strong, educated, and determined, do you actually think if something happened to John McCain she could run your country?  Just curious?  She is a good speaker I will give her that, but the argument would be – well, so is Obama, and that he is!


[This message has been edited by Mysteria (09-04-2008 03:12 PM).]

moonbeam
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154 posted 09-04-2008 02:39 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

I think we'll have to agree to disagree Mike.  Specifically I think the manner you presented your argument in this case was way beyond "respectful", and I think you know it full well or you wouldn't make such a disingenuous statement as: "if you consider sausage a coarse reference to genitalia". I suppose Mike, when you said: "he's good enough to slip the sausage to the daughter" you were talking about that time they visited the salami store together?!

Sorry, I don't mean to be sarcastic (well I do actually), but really.  Anyway never mind.  I guess we move on.

M
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155 posted 09-04-2008 02:47 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Mysteria

I don't know Mike personally but I have "known" him for a longish while.  This is the first time I have ever felt he was out of line, and I s'pose I was kind of disappointed about it.  I just feel that he's let Jennifer's spirited attack on Palin spill over into a personal disrespect for her, a disrespect I absolutely know she doesn't deserve.  Anyway, like I say, never mind.

I agree with you about Obama totally .

As for Palin, I'm in the wait and see camp, but I have serious reservations about her wildlife record.  The family thing isn't so much a worry for me as I am pretty sure she'll "neglect" her kids in favour of doing a good job for America (or a disasterous job! )

M
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156 posted 09-04-2008 03:02 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Thank you, Sharon, for your kind words and support. I wish I would have been able to do half the things for people that you have. How are the ladies of the Evergreen?

Moonbeam, agreeing to disagree is always acceptable, respectfully. The sausage thing which i'm sure you know was an attempt at humor (it went over well in Grumpy Old Men) and not an attempt to be coarsely vulgar...and I suppose we have different definitions of "spirited attack". That's ok. By the way, I've disappointed many people in my life so you join a long list Peace...
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157 posted 09-04-2008 03:05 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I really don’t understand why that statement upsets you, Balladeer. I was not attacking, mocking or belittling the children. Quite the opposite.

I think lying to your teens and forcing them into situations where they may choose not to be, that might make them anxious or extremely uncomfortable is wrong. It’s a blatant betrayal of trust. More so when that teen is facing all the emotional and physical trials and issues that go along with pregnancy.

I also think it shows extremely poor judgment to expose a four month old infant with health issues to crowds, passing that child from person to person is putting that infant at risk unnecessarily.

If my statement triggered issues for you that are upsetting, I do apologize. However, the way to respond was not by posting vulgarity and attributing it to me.

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158 posted 09-04-2008 03:07 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

By the way, Sharon, I noted your points and misgivings about Palin. You may be right and I cannot state that she would be good or not for the country. The only thing I'm making clear is that she deserves the respect any decent human being should have. I have no doubt you agree with that
Mysteria
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159 posted 09-04-2008 03:09 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

I do!
JenniferMaxwell
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160 posted 09-04-2008 03:36 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


Perhaps in future, Balladeer, you could show your respect for a decent human being and stop referring to President Carter as the peanut farmer.


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161 posted 09-04-2008 04:10 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Jennifer, excuse me, but

quote:
Jimmy from Plains, Georgia
James (Jimmy) Earl Carter, Jr., grew up on a peanut farm in Plains, Georgia. In 1946, Carter graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis and married Rosalynn Smith, also from Plains. He joined the nuclear-submarine fleet, but when his father died in 1953, Carter returned home. He and his mother formed a partnership to run the family peanut business, which prospered.


Source: http://ap.grolier.com/article?assetid=atb011b02&templatename=/article/article.html  

Apparently he's a successful peanut farmer.
Mysteria
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162 posted 09-04-2008 04:11 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

  I never knew that expression until I googled it under images.  Check out the second picture.  You are right Sunshine, Jimmy was one heck of a successful peanut farmer!    I am sure glad to see you all have such a great sense of humor in all this seriousness.

It will be interesting to hear McCain tonight, your future along with mine will hinge on his delivery.  Okay gotta run, great day in Vancouver, take care everyone.
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163 posted 09-04-2008 04:35 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


Oh good, guess you won't have any problem then with me calling Palin Car Wash Sarah. Thanks guys!

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164 posted 09-04-2008 04:41 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

quote:
Palin Scrubbing Turns Up
Updated 7:28 p.m.
By Matthew Mosk
ST. PAUL -- In addition to being a mayor and raising four children, Sarah Palin found time for another venture in her Wasilla years -- she was part-owner of an Anchorage car wash.
Source: Washington Post.

Not when it's the absolute truth, Jennifer.  

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165 posted 09-04-2008 04:48 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Sunshine and Mysteria

I think it depends on context.

Jimmy Carter was indeed a peanut farmer before he was President. But if Mike persisted in labelling him "that peanut farmer" following his term of office - I'd call that disrespectful.  

Think of it this way.  If you two reached the top of the legal profession as two eminent female judges, having previously started your careers as latrine cleaners, you might think it a bit disrespectful, not to mention derogatory, if I was to refer to you a "that pair of wc cleaners" instead of your honours - or whatever you call judges over there.

And you know, in some respects calling Jimmy Carter a peanut farmer is less accurate (by degree) than calling Palin a wolf and moose slaughterer.  And they are both about as funny.   
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166 posted 09-04-2008 04:53 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

And Jennifer? It's all over the Net that the car wash business failed. So, before you pull that cat out of the bag, consider:
quote:
Henry Ford went bankrupt five times before he became an automotive industry leader.

Walt Disney's first cartoon production company went bankrupt.

Oprah Winfrey was fired from her television reporter's job because she was "unfit for tv."

A lot of people fail before they learn better.

Note the failure of several past presidents:
quote:
Abraham Lincoln's first business as the owner of a dry goods store was a flop. He was later appointed postmaster in his township and had the worst efficiency record in the United States.

Franklin D. Roosevelt began his career in public service after flunking out of Columbia Law School. He then decided to run for governor of New York.

Dwight D. Eisenhower was rejected three times for command positions before being appointed Supreme Allied Commander in 1942.

Harry Truman opened a hat and shirt shop at age 35 that went bankrupt after just two years. Truman worked 15 years to pay off the debt.
Source: Associated Content.


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167 posted 09-04-2008 05:18 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Well, actually I wasn't going to bring it up, the part about her first, or was it the second, failed business. Though I suppose if you think about it, maybe it does sort of reflect on her management skills. Nah, I really don't think it's that important especially when she's currently facing two possible ethics violations.

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168 posted 09-04-2008 05:44 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Jennifer, you just don't get it. You can call her Car Wash Sara. You can call her Moose Hunting Momma or Moose Stew Sara or anything you want. Just leave her family out of it. No, you didn't insult the family. You simply used them as tools to attack her and attack her credentials as a  mother...and all because she is a Republican candidate. I can't believe you can't see how morally wrong that is. There are rules of common decency that responsible people should follow. Leaving children out of personal attacks is one of them. I'm sorry you can't see that.
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169 posted 09-04-2008 05:46 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

quote:
ANCHORAGE, Alaska — Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin wants a state board to review the circumstances surrounding the dismissal of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan — taking the unusual step of making an ethics complaint against herself.

Her lawyer sent an “ethics disclosure” Monday night to Attorney General Talis Colberg. The governor asked that it go to the three-person Personnel Board as a complaint. While ethics complaints are usually confidential, Palin wants the matter open.
Source: McClatchy Newspapers
[Emphasis added]

About as above board as anyone can get.  
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170 posted 09-04-2008 05:54 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Oh come on Mike, stop acting "shocked and horrified of Florida".  When someone posted an attack on Obama likening him to a massmurdering, racist madman you simply responded:

"Well, he is entitled to his opinion and no one is forced to respond and that's the bottom line. Can it be found distasteful? Sure, but I can go the archives and find things said about Bush that equal it with no complaints.

Obama is a one-term senator who has spent a big part of that term running for president and has done little else.
Hillary is a senator who has done nothing in the senate, is married to an ex-president,and was put in charge of revamping a health care policy which she couldn't do.
These two claim to have qualifications to run the country. I find THAT distasteful enough..."

Well?  Why isn't Jenn entitled to HERS without this whining?

M
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171 posted 09-04-2008 05:55 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Actually, this discussion is beginning to annoy me a little.

Let's look at what been happening.  

JM has pulled out a number of reports about Palin's views, actions and attitudes.  She's also pointed out her view of Palin's recent actions viz a viz family, children etc.  

Mike disagrees with almost all she says and his disagreement culminates in a personal attack on JM which he later, thankfully, edits, but does not apologise for, stating as his reason for not doing so that he does not respect someone who in turn does not respect a "decent human being".  The said "decent human being" in this case being Palin.

I respectfully submit that whether Palin is a decent human being is a matter of opinion.  Admittedly it's not clear what Mike means by "decent", but I'm guessing that it will be something along the lines of being a moral person.  Problem is, that one man's morality is not necessarily another's.

Despite what Mike says, most of the main issues (for me at least) remain unanswered:

The killing wolves issue
The endangered bear issue
The sport hunting issue
And the pro-life (rape and incest) issue

These have still not been satisfactorily laid to rest in this thread and for me these are all issues, any one of which would render Palin NOT a "decent human being" in my book.

The ecological/global warming issue
And the family in the limelight issue

are issues that make me worry about her motives, but not to the same extent as the ones above.

We are all different.  

JM clearly attaches more significance to the family thing.  She's perfectly entitled to do that imo.  She's quite within her rights as a young woman to be shocked that Palin lied to her daughter.  (I remember my mother lying to me to get me to take ice skating lessons nearly 40 years ago and it still hurts and embarrasses me when I think of it).

And how anyone cannot be shocked, no distraught, at the wolf killing is beyond me.  No one has denied that Palin condoned and promoted it, and on that count alone I think her morality is questionable.

This is a forum for flaming and complaining.  JM hasn't, as far as I can see, been disrespectful to anyone here, but she clearly feels that Palin isn't deserving of respect, and right now I'm inclined to agree with her.  That's her and my opinion and prerogative.

Not so long ago a member here posted a "poem" in the Alley which suggested overtly that Obama was like Hitler, thereby comparing him to a mass-murderer, racist and madman.  THAT in my view was utterly disgusting and how the post was allowed to remain here I have no idea ~shakes head~, but I didn't see a bevy of senior members descend on the perpetrator let alone level personal attacks.  Oh, wait, actually they DID descend eventually to pat him on the back and reassure him that he was entitled to his opinion!

Please let's have some respect for an intelligent and lively participant and quit these snide remarks and disingenuous tittering masquerading as "humour".

M
    
JenniferMaxwell
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172 posted 09-04-2008 06:26 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Oh please, Balladeer, and I suppose those rules of common decency include you being allowed to make personal attacks on a PIP poster using vulgar language?

Palin is a public figure, a politician. She's seeking our vote to allow her to hold the second highest office in the land. Every aspect of her life is now under the microscope and that's the way it should be.

This is a woman we know very little about. We need to learn everything about her, her character, her judgment, her beliefs, feelings on issues, etc.. I've read a lot and let me tell you, I'm seeing red flags popping up all over the place.

All we saw last night was a snarky attack directed at Obama. Now she's not available to the press. Makes me very suspicious. Doesn't she know enough even to do a morning talk show? Is McCain keeping her under wraps until she can be coached to produce a few talking points or they finally get around to doing a proper vetting and background check?

Her resume's thin, and there are issues of cronyism, and possilble ethics violations hanging over her head. If you're offended by my drawing attention to what I see as red flags, tough. Start posting some actual facts and show why you think she passes the sniff test.

Yep, Snowe, (for one) would have been an excellent choice. Though I don't agree with her on every issue, I sure would have supported her as being a good choice for VP and given McCain the thumbs up on his choice. Sorry but I just can't do the same for Palin.


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173 posted 09-04-2008 07:06 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ok, moonbeam, you win. There is no more that I can say here that will matter, I'm sure. I made no "attack" on Jenn before her comments about the family. Apparently, I am unable to convince either her or you that that should be below anyone's standards and, if I can't do that, then what's the use of continuing?

Yes, I have said many things about Clinton and Gore and Kerry and Pelosi and the list goes on. You have NEVER heard me say a word about their family or whether or not they are good parents or villifying them for not being good parents. You have never seen a word coming from me about Chelsea or Clinton's brother, a very colorful character in his own right. You've never seen a word from me attacking Theresa Kerry, another colorful character. I have made no references to anyone's family life.

You make a big deal about her not telling her family until the last minute. Obviously, no one has ever thrown you a surprise birthday party or anything like that. She wanted to surprise them in a good way. Average people actually do that. Her husband laughed about it afterwards. Jenn, on the other hand, in another attempt to go after her, set it up as a "horrible" thing to do, providing trauma that may affect them for their entire lives. If I were one of those children, it would be a treasured memory. You prefer to paint it as a horrible thing. Fine. We will leave it at that. You are not the only disappointed one here.

Alison said something a few pages back that was very pertinent but ignored.

I play poker 5 nights a week on an average and make a fair living at it. Occasionally, someone will make a call that they have no business making based on the percentages against them, and they catch a card and win. Does this make a good player angry, even though they lost a hand they should have rightfully won? No, it doesn't because we know that, in the long run, that type of player who takes improbable chances at long odds are the same people who will provide us with a nice profit. The poker term for this type of player is "donkey". (No, I'm not making that up and not claiming that it has a political base.)

The novice player will get angry at these "luck" players and insult and berate them for playing in a hand they should have logically not been in. The good players will just smile and wait with a "Nice hand, fella. You're good."..and we wait to clean out their wallets.

Regarding the selection of Sara Palin, people here lambaste the decision and claim that she is a terrible choice....and then do their best to villify every part of her life. If they really feel that she presents no problem and is a bad choice, they should be sitting there smiling, saying, "Nice choice, McCain. you done good!" and then sit back and watch them get beat. The fact is that, with all of the attacks on her, all of the almost hatred displayed here toward her, it must be concluded that she IS indeed considered a threat, someone who must be taken down, someone who would present a realistic challenge.....otherwise, why bother tearing her down? You don't attack losers. You smile and watch them lose.

At any rate, this thread has gone the route, I think. We don't speak the same language on things and any type of agreement seems to be out of the realm of possibility so, for me, it's time to move on. Have fun.....

JenniferMaxwell
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174 posted 09-04-2008 07:33 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

A lot of steamy rhetoric and a quick exit but still no facts? Oh well, guess push came to shove.

Smiling at a bad choice who just might get elected?  Sorry, that just doesn’t make any sense if you care about the country and the future.

We’ve been stuck with a bad choice for the last eight years and it’s going to take generations to recover. Bush got a pass, all the red flags about him were whitewashed, hidden and buried. I’d really hate to see that happen again. That's the real threat, being hoodwinked again and stuck with four or eight more years of war mongering, cronyism, and incompetence.


 
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