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Passions in Poetry

Gimmick or genius?

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JenniferMaxwell
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125 posted 09-03-2008 10:13 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

You posted something offensive making it look like you were quoting or paraphrasing something I actually said. That's crossing the line, Balladeer. Please remove it.
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126 posted 09-03-2008 10:22 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

You posted something offensive making it look like you were quoting or paraphrasing something I actually said. That's crossing the line, Balladeer. Please remove it.
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127 posted 09-03-2008 10:29 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Actually, I quoted something that I said you might say if the decision to have the boy appear were made. I certainly never made the claim you said it. Based on the many insults you have thrown at her personally and the lengths you have gone to disagree with everything about her, it seemed realistic enough you might say something similar, just to get your personal digs in, which apparently is your main motivation now.

I mean, if you can say Sure there is, Pete, like dragging your pregnant unmarried teen and your special needs infant along on the campaign trial and using them for photo ops., then I doubt there is any limit to the extremes you would go.
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128 posted 09-03-2008 10:33 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Your offensive and misleading post is still on the board,Balladeer. Please remove it.
JenniferMaxwell
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129 posted 09-03-2008 11:06 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

The language in your post is offensive, Balladeer. Using offensive language and labeling it as something I might say is  nothing more than poorly disguised personal attack. Please remove that post.

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130 posted 09-03-2008 11:17 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ok, I changed it to where it does not refer to you. Good night.
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131 posted 09-03-2008 11:31 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

The rules on the top of this posting box state:
"No personal attacks, vulgarity, or obscenity will be tolerated."

The language in your post is without a doubt vulgar, Balladeer, and even with the edit, it's still a personal attack. Please remove the post. It's extremely inappropriate coming from a moderator and it violates the rules.

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132 posted 09-04-2008 12:02 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Good grief! ok, then. There is now no vulgarity nor any reference to you. The post conforms to policy.

If you want vulgarity, just check out your posts, like the one above about her parading her sick daughter for photo ops. You will find plenty of vulgarity there.

Now, good night for sure!
JenniferMaxwell
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133 posted 09-04-2008 12:13 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I've asked you very politely numerous times to remove your offensive post, Balladeer and you've refused.

You edited the post but didn't remove the vulgar language and are still suggesting that your offensive post is something I might say.

Well I didn't say anything of the sort and I never would, I simply don't use that kind of gutter language in a public forum. That you did speaks volumes about you, not me.

So I withdraw my request to have the post removed. Let everyone see the kind of vulgarity you resort to and the personal attacks you make on those who disagree with your politics.

JenniferMaxwell
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134 posted 09-04-2008 12:17 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I see you've finally edited out my name and the gutter language from your offensive post, Balladeer. Pity it took you nearly two hours to do so, but thank you, anyway.
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135 posted 09-04-2008 01:33 AM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

I would like to answer the question first asked by this thread if I may. McCain knew exactly what he was doing when he appointed Palin as his running mate, and it was sheer genius.  I am not American, but have always been more interested in your politics than my own.  Were I down there up until tonight my money was on Obama as you know Michael.     However, after hearing Palin tonight, she has "balls" and is definitely in the right game for sure. She spoke well, looked great, and can throw a political punch just as well as the big boys, so this is sure going to be interesting now.  I can't wait until November to see what y'all decide down there.

I know one thing, I am very excited that so many citizens are going to vote in this election, and also that they are thinking good and hard this time around.  That is one big debt to clear up, and an ugly situation to get out of down there.  It surely will affect us up here too I imagine.  Take care everyone.

I enjoy your discussions in the Alley very much for what it is worth.  What a great forum to hear all points of view.  

Bob K
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136 posted 09-04-2008 02:43 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     I walked away for a few hours and came back to see what appears to be the smoke of a large stink bomb clearing from the areas of the forum...   It looks, from what I can see of the wreckage, that Balladeer was putting words into JM's mouth that JM did not utter; and that, confronted, Balladeer defended himself by saying that it was the sort of thing he thought she'd say, because that was the kind of a person he thought she was.

     I wonder if actually asking might not save a lot of hard feelings, Mike?  As in "JM, are you actually saying you believe X, which I think is outrageous?" instead of simply assuming that she feels and thinks that, only to find you're mistaken and you've accidently insulted somebody for no decent reason?  How painful can it be to find out in advance that you're making the right assumptions?  And if you're not, you'll have saved yourself a situation that takes time away from points you actually should be making, if you want to further your case.  From what I've seen, you're a guy who likes to make righteous points.

     If you're going to hurt somebody's feelings, why not make sure it's about a real point of disagreement, and not something which helps nobody and only serves to make you look careless.  A guy who's a meticulous with his technique as you are has got to hate the wasted elegance that goes into careless argumentation.

     And you've got to understand that Democrats are not about to see themselves being the liars they see the Republican operatives being.  Among other things, they know how anti-Democratic Party the press actually is, and they can point to the number of conservative writers writing for so called liberal papers as evidence.  They can also look at the Conservative press and notice the difficulty in finding more than one or two liberal voices scattered amongst them.  They can look at the radio networks and notice the number of conservative talk shows versus the number of liberal talk shows, even in areas where the liberal talk shows previously on have out-rated the conservative talk shows by significant margins.

     For you to expect Democrats with any sort of ability or wish to do research to roll over and play dead in the face of conservative canards (Exactly when and where did Gore say he "invented the Internet?" and what is your sourcing on that?) is a bit much.  That you do it yourself is something I am at a loss to explain.  Specifically to go after JM is simply ill conceived.

Sincerely, Bob Kaven
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137 posted 09-04-2008 03:24 AM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

quote:
(Exactly when and where did Gore say he "invented the Internet?" and what is your sourcing on that?)


Bob,

Just for point of clarification, I think I was the one who made the statement about Gore in a tounge-in-cheek post comparing Palin to past VP's.

While I am here, Jennifer, Todd Palin has never run the Iditarod.  That is a sled dog race.  He is a snowmachine racer and has run the Iron Dog.

A
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138 posted 09-04-2008 04:26 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Well she has proved she can wow a partisan crowd.  Good start.

Now, does she approve aerial hunting of wolves or not?

......

Mike

You accused JM of losing it a while back.  At least she was getting hyped up about what she had researched on Palin.  You were simply lashing out at another poster.  Putting words into the mouth of someone else is a bit below the belt.  Posting something that looks like a quote from a young lady which includes coarse references to genitalia is completely out of order.  I always thought of you as a model gentleman for the younger members here to emulate - I hope you think on this, and then do the gentlemanly thing and apologise to Jennifer.

......

And Bob

Just her NAME (omg!)  is enough.  She'd have my vote - Olympia Snowe Olympia Snowe Olympia Snowe - I'm recurringly in love!   - how shallow is that, lol.

......

Any takers on telling me about Palin and wolves?  Alison? ~waving~
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139 posted 09-04-2008 05:59 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Toss out McCain and Palin for President? I'd vote for her in a heartbeat. She was refreshing! She has experience but most of all she has conviction! She's a true grassroots candidate!

(loved the pitbull/hockey mom joke - and the shot of her little girl licking her hand to smooth down her baby brother's hair! Just precious!)
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140 posted 09-04-2008 06:26 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

That's nice Sharon  

I'm kind of hopeful though that a site full emotionally overdosed poets isn't representative of the average voter in the world's greatest (only) superpower. Gawd help the rest of us if it is!

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141 posted 09-04-2008 07:20 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Yep, the woman is a real pit bull. Now she's even attacking herself.

"Sarah Palin files ethics complaint against self in ‘troopergate’."
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142 posted 09-04-2008 07:35 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


Since no one has responded to your question about whether Palin supports aerial hunting, MB, I’ll be glad to give you the facts I found and a link to a video about aerial hunting.

Governor Sarah Palin has an extreme anti-conservation record on issues ranging from global warming, energy and drilling to wildlife and habitat protection.

Aerial hunting of wolves and bearsGovernor Palin is an active promoter of Alaska's aerial hunting program whereby wolves and bears are shot from the air or chased by airplanes to the point of exhaustion before the pilot lands the plane and a gunner shoots the animals point blank.  

Palin offered a $150 bounty for wolves to entice hunters to kill more wolves in certain parts of the state, with hunters having to present a wolf's foreleg to collect the bounty.  

She actively opposed a ballot measure campaign seeking to end the aerial hunting of wolves by private hunters and approved a $400,000 state-funded campaign aimed at swaying people's votes on the issue.  

She also introduced legislation to make it easier to kill wolves and bears and which would have also removed the aerial hunting initiative from the ballot and block the ability of citizens to vote on the issue.

The Board of Game, which she appoints, has approved the killing of black bear sows with cubs as part of the program and expanded the aerial control programs.

The media is currently looking into reports that state officials implementing one of the aerial wolf killing programs illegally killed five-week old wolf pups just outside their dens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mu_rqmFpL8

And this is the short version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr183lk-wQk&feature=user

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143 posted 09-04-2008 10:06 AM       View Profile for Misty Lilacs   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Misty Lilacs

Let's not forget she was on the PTA!

My concern with her is who is going to take care of her Downs Syndrome baby? I think all women have the right to work but I'm concerned about the baby.  
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144 posted 09-04-2008 10:07 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

quote:
Governor Sarah Palin has an extreme anti-conservation record on issues ranging from global warming, energy and drilling to wildlife and habitat protection.

Thisw is from the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission website:
The IOGCC advocates for environmentally-sound ways to increase the supply of American energy. We accomplish this by providing governors of member states with a clear and unified voice to Congress, while also serving as the authority on issues surrounding these vital resources.
Gov. Palin is the head of this commision... How can you hate concervation and lead an organization who is finding environmentally sound ways to increase energy independence?

As the head of the National Governor's Association's Natural Resources Committee.. she is leading the fight for cleaner drinking water, ( click here for the webpage ), to save the endangered species ( click here ), and environmentally responsible energy independence ( click here ) among other environmetally saving policies.

As for the animals: she introduced a bill to the Alaska legislature (House Bill 256 and Senate Bill 176,). The bill, clarifies and simplifies the language of what is known as the “intensive management” law (AS 16.05.255 (e-g)), which requires the Alaska Board of Game to adopt regulations to restore populations of moose, caribou and deer in parts of the state where they have been depleted over time.

The arial hunting issue is actually an issue for people who are not affected by it, and not by the people who benefit most... and is not a Gov .Palin initiative. Alaska's preditor control program is mandated by the Alaskan Legislature and not the governor's office. It is regulated by the independent Alaska Board of Game, and is implimented by world renowned scientists at the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. Wolf "hunting" is not hunting at all... it is predator control. Before another tangent is started by anyone on here: The moose, caribou, and other such creatures that the wolves and bears prey on are also food for the local human population. When the predators (such as wolves) bring the level of the game down to where they are insufficient to allow the humans to feed their families, then something has got to be done.
Jennifer, by your own admission, it was only permitted in certain parts of the state. It was done to help bring the amount of game back to acceptable levels.

Yes, Gov. Palin does appoint people to the Alaskan Board of Game... however, it is akin to President Bush appointing someone tot he Supreme Court.. just because he says so, does not make it a fact the legislature must approve the appointees... so, if she appointed someone who was not worthy.. then the legislature should have voted him/her out.

Very simply, the facts you found are not ALL of the facts, and the video you present was made by an organization who makes its money by scaring the population into thinking the animals will be all dead if they do not stop it from happening. It is no different than the conservative groups saying that the country will corrode into chaos, lawlessness and anarchistic immorality if we do not cancel Roe V Wade immediately.

Very simply, the facts of the matter are that the State of Alaska has been widely recognized for their excellence and effectiveness in fish and game management... and a large part of that is Gov. Palin.

I do not believe she is the second coming for the Republican Party; however, I am willing to give the woman her due.


What would you attempt to do...if you knew you could not fail?. www.myspace.com/mindlesspoet
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145 posted 09-04-2008 10:07 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

Dear Alison,

           You are repeating a slur about Vice President Gore that you have heard other places as though it were a confirmed truth.  One of the places I have seen it passed on multiple times before I saw it passed on by you was by Balladeer.

     To pass on a slur by calling it tongue in cheek is to pretend the people you are insulting should enjoy being insulted.  And should pretend that you're such a person of privilege that you have the perfect right to do that.  If everybody is enjoying the joke, everybody should be laughing happily together.  Not the case here.  So the question remains:  What are the facts, what is the source and what is the actual quote?

     Alison, you might have made the thing up out of the whole cloth, but you're basically too honest to do that.  I suspect you're passing on unquestioned some piece of feel-great puffery you heard someplace without actually checking out the facts to be sure it's true.

     So if Gore said it, and it's not some distortion that he's too well mannered not to correct, where did he say it, what were the actual words he said, and when?  And who is reporting it?  That is, is the source trustworthy?

     These are the questions I believe you were right in asking about governor Palin and the flurry of claims and counterclaims about her.  I asked you where I might find good sources about her because trustworthy sources are important period, no matter what side of a debate you're on.  Even if you may not agree with what people say, they may be able to give you useful sources you wouldn't find otherwise.  Even if you do agree with people, you may need to use other sources than they recommend.

     It might be instructive to check out what part Vice-President did have in the development of the inter-net.  Then compare that to what he actually did say.

Yours, Bob Kaven
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146 posted 09-04-2008 10:58 AM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

Bob,

It's an interesting topic for further research and I am happy to take it on.  Slur or uban legend, it was a tired piece of information that may or may not have merit.  I made reference to three points that were an issue regarding three VP's (or found humorous by a large group of people at one time) in response to slam after slam about Palin.  I would not call it a 'slur', but I respect your opinion and will follow up on this subject later.  Ain't it amazing that we don't all have the same sense of humor and what one can think is quick and witty can be deemed offensive or a slur to others?

If an apology is due to ex Vice President Gore, I'll be happy to post it.

quote:
I asked you where I might find good sources about her because trustworthy sources are important period, no matter what side of a debate you're on.  Even if you may not agree with what people say, they may be able to give you useful sources you wouldn't find otherwise.  Even if you do agree with people, you may need to use other sources than they recommend.



Would you elaborate on the comment above?  I don't understand what you are saying.  Have I ignored references in this thread?  Have I been offered some that I have not responded to?  Truly, I am puzzled.

A general comment in regards to the children of Sarah and Todd Palin.  She is not a single mother and it looks like their father is quite capable of caring for their child when she is working.  Is this an issue or is this cultural bias?  Have we asked this question of past Vice Presidents?

A
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147 posted 09-04-2008 11:59 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

"an organization who makes its money by scaring the population into thinking the animals will be all dead if they do not stop it from happening."

Defenders of Wildlife is a not for profit organization so your post about making money is very misleading. Was that intentional?

The purpose of the video was not to "scare" anyone, it was to show the wanton cruelty of aerial hunting and that no one actually knows the number of wolves being killed or wounded and left to die.

Perhaps instead of torturing wolves who take the weakest of the moose and caribou packs that are most likely not going to survive anyway, Palin, trophy hunters, non-subsistence hunters should stop moose and caribou hunting and concentrate their energies on working on all the other issues that directly affect the wildlife population.

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148 posted 09-04-2008 12:16 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Ringo

I don't believe you specifically countered a single one of JM's points:

Did she offer a $150 bounty?
Did the wolf's foreleg have to be presented as evidence?
Did she oppose a ballot measure seeking the end of wolf control?
Did she approve $400,000 campaign aimed at swaying peoples votes her way?
Did she introduce legislation to make it easier to kill wolves and bears?

What you did Ringo was believe a delusion that many ordinary people do.  If you are an oil executive or a hunter wanting to preserve your commercial interests the very first thing you do is form some official body with a grand sounding title and all sorts of wonderful ecological goals, and then put yourself at the head of it.  Thereafter every time your commercial interests conflict with environmental issues you simply point at this committee or that commission, and everyone says: oh, it must be ok then.

And also you are saying that wolf "hunting" is not hunting at all... it is predator control.  And you go on: "The moose, caribou, and other such creatures that the wolves and bears prey on are also food for the local human population. When the predators (such as wolves) bring the level of the game down to where they are insufficient to allow the humans to feed their families ..."

So in 2008 you are seriously telling me that there are so many families up there in Alaska dependant upon Moose and Caribou meat that they HAVE to kill them to live?  You're saying that there are no sport hunters?  These are families who haven't got access to a local store, and it's caribou or moose or starvation?  Basically then wolves are being killed so these humans can live?  I see.

M

Good point Alison.  Maybe he is indeed a house husband.

M
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149 posted 09-04-2008 12:27 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Actually, MB, he's not. Last I read he was only home every other week and spends his weekends fishing. That may have changed, but I haven't heard anything different.

I'm sure the children will be properly farmed out. What upset me was knowing that Bristol was lied to and sort of tricked into appearing in the limelight. And the baby, what in the world are they thinking when they subject a four month old infant with health issues to the chaos and germiness of a convention.


 
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