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Gimmick or genius?

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Balladeer
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75 posted 09-02-2008 08:35 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

ah, Jennifer, the "unqualified" comment again. At least the unqualified candidate on the republican side is in the second spot and not the first.

Besides, as Grinch, a man we all know and respect highly, claimed earlier, experience for a job  you've never had is unnecessary and not a requirement.

So what's the problem?  

BTW, Alison is right. Instead of responding, you just seem to continue to disregard and go off on other attacks. She asked you why you don't speak of why you think Obama is the best choice instead of just spending your time villifying Palin. You ignored it. I asked you a couple of pages ago if you put as much investigation into Obama's choice for VP as you did on Palin and you ignored that also.

Well, continue the attack on her and be sure people know how evil she really is. Democrats count on you...

off to work, too
moonbeam
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76 posted 09-02-2008 09:23 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

I personally thought that the main thrust of Jenn's arguments over the last few posts wasn't heading towards a charge of "unqualified", but indicating a charge something along the lines of "morally questionable for high office".  In my view that's a much more serious charge in any case.

Not that it's by any means proven of course.
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77 posted 09-02-2008 10:08 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
They were protesting whatever they were protesting by causing personal damage randomly to victims who had little or nothing to do with the Iraq war.



ďThe Boston Tea Party was an act of direct action protest by the American colonists against the British Government in which they destroyed many crates of tea bricks belonging to the British East India Company on ships in Boston Harbor.Ē
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party

quote:
General lawlessness and vandalism can be right or wrong depending on political views? It might be interesting in your mind but all i can say is "You can't be serious."


Actually I am, you see the only difference I can discern between the protesters against Iraq and the men throwing somebody elseís tea into the harbour is the perspective from which both are viewed. Both are acts of vandalism based on your own criteria, yet one is acceptable and one isnít depending on your politics or perspective.

quote:
Besides, as Grinch, a man we all know and respect highly, claimed earlier, experience for a job you've never had is unnecessary and not a requirement.


Actually thatís not what I said, if you want to paraphrase it correctly I said that having more or less experience when it came to being President was an invalid argument when applied to anybody who hasnít already held that position.

It holds true for VP too. As I said earlier I think Palin is as good a candidate for VP as Obama is for President and vice versa. Itís the other two I have a problem with.

Iím about to board a flight to Spain and wonít be around for a while, but I look forward to catching up with this and other threads on my return.

moonbeam
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78 posted 09-02-2008 10:40 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam



quote:
I'm about to board a flight to Spain

Lol.  Start planting LOTS of trees, bad boy.
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79 posted 09-02-2008 11:04 AM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

MB, darling -

I tip my hat to you in your efforts to help the environment.  I do many of those things myself, and hope to implement more changes in the fairly new future.  I, too, am concerned about the climate, the impacts on plants, animals, and the diminshing pack ice.

It's been nice conversing with you on this thread.

Alison
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80 posted 09-02-2008 01:28 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I do think I replied to your query, Balladeer, by stating my opposition to Palin was basically the same as yours concerning Obama. Goose and Gander, no? And, though this thread isnít about Obama, I did indeed post a quickie c & c that clearly shows on foreign policy, national concerns, etc., Obama leaves Palin eating his dust. Since I clearly indicated in the Obama thread that Biden was my personal choice for President with Obama in the VP slot, of course Iíve researched Biden. But I get the distinct impression, like McCain, you really have done your homework on Palin.

Not trying to vilify Palin, just stating the facts as I see them. As far as I recall, unless I missed a post, youíve added nothing to the discussion that disproves those facts or, as a matter of fact, nothing that has much to do with the actual topic. What I see is just more of your ususal off topic posts. But thatís ok, you certainly have a right to express your dislike of all things NOT Republican.

Must get back to work. Have a good one.  
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81 posted 09-02-2008 03:44 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


ďThe third most frequently used term involved an ethics charge against Palin that she fired the state public safety commissioner because he wouldn't fire Palin's former brother-in-law. Some 90 percent of these stories failed to mention that the brother-in-law was in trouble for threatening to kill people.Ē

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,414943,00.html


.
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82 posted 09-02-2008 04:41 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Interesting that you bring up that point, Huan Yi. My personal opinion, yep, the BIL is a redneck and it was one heck of a messy divorce.

But, regarding that threat, why didn't Palin tell her father or law enforcement about it for I think it was something like two weeks? Neither did her sister. Would you wait two weeks before reporting a threat like that or warning the target? Something about that sound a bit fishy to you?

In her statement Palin admits practically all the information regarding her BIL's activities came second hand - that she hadn't actually witnessed the events herself. And who gave her that information, none other than her sister, the one embroiled in the messy divorce with the redneck BIL.
moonbeam
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83 posted 09-02-2008 04:54 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

I'm gonna rename you "Miss Marple" Jenn , you and that computer of yours, both.  

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84 posted 09-02-2008 05:01 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


Fast typing, speed reading, just a few of my many, many gifts, MB.
moonbeam
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85 posted 09-02-2008 06:03 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Or maybe Miss Modesty!

G'night!
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86 posted 09-02-2008 06:08 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

You know I'm only kidding, MB. After all, I am a blonde and you know what that means - a bit on the dim side, right, Balladeer?
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87 posted 09-02-2008 06:28 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Have you seen this one?

"WASILLA, Alaska - Bristol Palin's boyfriend plans to join the family of the Republican vice presidential candidate at the convention in Minnesota.

Levi Johnston's mother said her 18-year-old son left Alaska on Tuesday morning to join the Palin family in St. Paul."


So much for not setting the candidates children up for public scrutiny. McCain and Palin ought to be ashamed.

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88 posted 09-02-2008 07:02 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Actually I am, you see the only difference I can discern between the protesters against Iraq and the men throwing somebody else’s tea into the harbour is the perspective from which both are viewed. Both are acts of vandalism based on your own criteria, yet one is acceptable and one isn’t depending on your politics or perspective.

Grinch, you can type until you are blue in the fingers, you can take as many detours and side roads as you want and you are never going to convince me that destruction, vandalism or unlawful acts against innocents is justifiable. If you want to compare the Boston Tea Party, fine. The rebels threw the Queen's tea into the ocean in protest. They did not stop passersby on the streets and beat them. They did not commit any actions against anyone else. If the protesters there had snuck into the parking garage and flattened the tires of McCain or other congressmen, you would have a better argument. They didn't. They attacked randomly people who had nothing to do with our being in Iraq. You want to claim that it could be considered justifiable...go ahead. Perhaps you would feel differently if it were your car or windows being vandalized.

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89 posted 09-02-2008 07:18 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Not trying to vilify Palin

Ok, let's review...


She's already under investigation for an ethics violation, and her managerial style is the same as Bush's, agree with me no matter how wrong I am or you're out.

She's unqualified, plus she needs a serious makeover. Pearls with fleece, get real! And the do, that went out in the 80's. No McCain and no big hair!  

Send the big hair hockey Mom back to moose country!

Oh she's the right choice for sure, no doubt about that, Balladeer. Now that all eyes are focused on her, voters won't even notice Gramps McSame nodding off on the campaign trail. Brilliant strategy, no?

Lying about the polar bear population, what’s she got against polar bears? Isn’t killing moose enough for her? And aerial hunting - fly by killing, no need to get your Bean boots muddy or bloody.

Well, I’m off to make a big bowl of popcorn to munch on while I wait for the next episode of the Johnny and (she's his "soulmate") Sarah Show.

Do you think maybe she's one of those infiltrators the AIP is trying to place in the two major parties, sort of like Alaska's own Manchurian Candidate?


Certainly glad you are not trying to villify her, Jennifer.  One can argue whether or not she would be a good vice-president and have valid debates but there is one thing for sure. She is a woman deserving of respect. She has had a good career, raised a family has many good qualities as a decent human being, whether she is VP qualified or not. You are not even interested in showing her respect, as evidenced by the comments noted here. You are more interested in conducting a smear campaign with as many personal insults as you can throw in. Your comments do no reflect on her. They reflect on you.
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90 posted 09-02-2008 07:42 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Don't worry, Jennifer. You're not alone. On Good Morning America this morning they had a panel discussing Palin's daughter's baby and the question of whether or not Palin could be an effective VP while raising a child with Downe's Syndrome. So much for Obama's call for decency.

If you listen closely you will hear the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot yet again. Championed by their liberal press, they are going to find out that there are actually decent people out there who are going to be turned off by these pathetic attacks and attempts at negativity. I would even bet they are going to steer votes McCain's way with their complete lack of class and decency. It couldn't happen to a better group of people.....
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91 posted 09-02-2008 07:49 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Mike

The girl is seventeen.  Her mother is the governor
of Alaska.   Birth control has been around for forty years
or didnít anyone tell her?  Is that stupidity, a cry for help,
or something else?  Who is her role model?
Sarah Palin will seem a prime example of the consequences
of a woman being something other, not merely beyond,
the mother of her many children.   She will appear
an Energizer Bunny gone awry. She is a mistake that
John McCain will regret.

John

.
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92 posted 09-02-2008 08:11 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I hope you are wrong, John, because that would be a very sad testament to American politics.

Would you like a list of all children of American politicians who have gotten into trouble in one way or another? I doubt Ron has enough bandwidth to handle it.

Sure, the Democratic sleaze machine will go into high gear. They already sent a team to Alaska to dig up any dirt they can find on her. As I stated earlier, I have enough faith in the decency of the American people that they will see through the sleaze and tune out the sleazers.

As far as Palin is concerned, when they advised her about the dirt-digging teams, she responded by saying "Do you know the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull?" "Lipstick".

I think she will handle herself quite well....
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93 posted 09-02-2008 08:18 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"Would you like a list of all children of American politicians who have gotten into trouble in one way or another?"


Who then ran for President or a heartbeat there from I think would be a very short list.


.
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94 posted 09-02-2008 08:31 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/barone/2008/09/02/palins-fans-not-troubled-by-news-of-daughters-pregnancy.html
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95 posted 09-02-2008 09:26 PM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

John,

Do you remember being 16 and 17?  I do and it was a wonderful and exciting time.  My parents brought me up very well - but, while a teenager, I took chances that I would never take now.

I think there is a period of a few years when teenagers are convinced that things like pregnancy, injury and death can not happen to them.  No parent can be watching 24/7.  Mine gave me the tools to make decisions because they knew that they would not always be there when I had to use them.  I thought I was above anything happening to me.  After all what are the chances?  Really what are the chances?  I was a teenager and caught up in the joy of discovery and that was my thought process.

I don't hold my parents responsible for the stupid decisions that I made when I was a teenager.  I made mistakes and I was lucky to survive those years.  

My Mother was not a working Mom and she still had no idea what her children did when were not home under her watchful eyes.

Alison
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96 posted 09-02-2008 10:29 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

A few things you failed to mention, Balladeer, hypocrisy, hypocrisy and hypocrisy.

First instance, the latest right wing talking point according to the memo, with which I totally, completely and whole-heartedly agree, was leave the kids alone. But what do big hair hockey Mom and McShame decide to do, they decide to drag Bristolís bf into the pic and put even more attention and pressure on those kids. They are the real sleaze machine, the heck with the kids, theyíre just props for a photo op.

Any woman so shallow as to risk the well being of her pre-mature special needs infant by not immediately seeking medical attention when she knows sheís in labor, and later by subjecting him to campaign crowds, plus exposing her pregnant unmarried teen to public scrutiny isnít much of a mother or a woman in my book. Thatís the real lack of class and decency.

Secondly, Miss Alaska Runner Up stated that she and Iditarod Dad allowed their daughter to make her own choice, yet Palin wants to take that right to choose away from all American women and their daughters by banning abortion and even birth control for married couples.

Failing to instruct her daughter about safe sex as well as birth control put her child at serious risk. Instead of a five month fetus, Bristol could be carrying HIV/AIDS.

Finally, please donít lecture me about vilifying, Iíve already learned enough about that by reading your posts. Youíre still trashing Jimmy Carter and heís been out of office for more than a quarter of a century. You keep using slick willy, peanut farmer and Iíll stick with McShame and big hair hockey Mom and weíll just call it even.

You may want a dominionist, a rapture ready fundie a heartbeat away from the Armageddon button, a person with no national security or foreign policy knowledge or experience second at the helm of the ship Bush has done his best to sink, but I certainly donít, no thinking person would.

No indeed, parents aren't responsible for the mistakes their children make, but they certainly are partially responsible when they fail to give their children the tools and the knowledge they need to help prevent life altering and potentially fatal mistakes like teen pregnancy and HIV.

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97 posted 09-02-2008 10:58 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ok, John, you are right. There ARE people out there who will not respond to Obama's call for decency because they simply do not have it in them. I see that now. You win.
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98 posted 09-02-2008 11:03 PM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

Jennifer, you say ďNot trying to vilify Palin, just stating the facts as I see them.Ē  Perhaps you see your remarks regarding Palin and Alaska as humorous.  I donít.
  
I have said repeatedly that I donít expect you to vote for Palin or believe all she says.  I did say that I think you never gave her a chance.  Many of the comments that you have written are insensitive and ignorant.  

We are a state embroiled in political investigations and we have watched quite few politicians fall by the ways inside into courtrooms and jail.  As an Alaskan, I expect our elected officials to be held accountable.  Palin is no different in my eyes.  I think this is an interesting investigation Ė I also think that the reasons she is being investigated are very interesting.  I have thought so since July or whenever she removed the Commissioner from his position.  Perhaps I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the Governors assign people to the Commissioner positions and can, as easily, remove them.  Time will tell if she was within her rights to act as she did.  I donít have enough information to say.  My personal opinion is that we are spending money unnecessarily, but that is simply my opinion.  I have issues with the fact that the State Trooper that is in the middle of the controversy remains working with the public.  Yes, Jennifer, he was reprimanded and, I believe, suspended for some time.  If the accusations had been groundless as you imply, he would not have been punished in any way.

Alaska is also a state that has huge environmental issues that we contend with as part of our daily life.  The state is the largest state and one of our favorite expressions is if Alaska was divided in half, Texas would be the third largest state.  With all this space, only three percent of the land is under private ownership.  We have a very limited road system and travel within state is extremely expensive.  We pay as much, or more, for gas and oil as any State in the US.  The electric bills in the interior and remote areas are sky-rocketing in the summer when we normally donít pay much for power.  Over half of my electric bill has additional charges for fuel charges.  We are not exempt from the issues of high prices that everyone else faces.  Yes, we receive an annual dividend for living here, but most of us use it on bills.  We are like everyone who is struggling with rising costs.  We need to heat our homes just like you do.  When temperatures plummet to minus twenty and colder, we have no choice but to burn wood, coal, gas or oil.  Wood and coal burning is under scrutiny by the EPA because of emissions that get trapped by temperature inversions.  So we do what we can to keep our air clean, and not go broke trying to keep up with the basic necessities of life.  I have no reason to believe that Sarah Palin wants to irresponsibly rape Alaska for its resources and leave devastation in developmentís wake.  I do think that she has been working to help us find some respite from escalating costs.

The State is split on issues like ANWR, Pebble Mine, aerial wolf hunting, and if land should continue to be largely inaccessible or opened up for people to actually see and enjoy.  We are a huge state in terms of land and a small state in terms of population.  We are unique in many ways.  We dress very informally.  Itís not uncommon to see Alaskans in polar fleece and jeans at any social event.  We have our share of fashionable people; they are just harder to find here.  Many of us eat wild game Ė and since it cannot be purchased, we hunt.  Moose meat is a very healthy meat.  Itís naturally lean and some of us prefer it to beef and pork.  I am not fond of caribou, but have friends who are.  Hunting is something people do for cultural reasons, economic reasons, or they just like the meat.  Not all people hunt, but many people here do.  As I said in an earlier post, I am pretty turned off by how animals are treated as they are raised to be butchered, or for their milk or their eggs.  I think that responsible hunting is a heck of a lot more humane than many places that raise animals for slaughter or what they can give to be sold.  The hunters that I know take pride in killing humanely, taking care of the meat, and not wasting meat.  I have no reason to believe that the Palin family is any different.

Alaskans live here because we love the land, we love the animals and it is our home. My father raised his children to hunt for one reason Ė to fill a freezer.  I see very few animal heads displayed on walls.  Most of us are not trophy hunters.  Sport hunting is not about sports Ė itís about integrity and sportsmanlike behavior.
  
I do want to address a couple of things that you have said.  First, the poster that you linked us to in response to my question about your source of information regarding aerial wolf kills was in poor taste.  It was a slight against a state filled with wonderful people.  We are some of the most giving people that I know.  We pride ourselves on having differences of opinions and differences of beliefs while still getting along.  We are passionate in our beliefs.

Letís recap some of your comments, Jennifer

ē She's unqualified, plus she needs a serious makeover. Pearls with fleece, get real! And the do, that went out in the 80's. No McCain and no big hair!
ē The only draw this woman has is to the fundie base.
ē I'm sure her being the head of the Christian Fellowship of Athletes is really going to put the fear of God into countries like Russia and Iran.
ē Palin just said NUK-U-LER. Please, not four more years of Bushisms! Send the big hair hockey Mom back to moose country!
ē Lying about the polar bear population, whatís she got against polar bears? Isnít killing moose enough for her? And aerial hunting - fly by killing, no need to get your Bean boots muddy or bloody.
ē Well, Iím off to make a big bowl of popcorn to munch on while I wait for the next episode of the Johnny and (she's his "soulmate") Sarah Show. Itís gonna be a real doozy!
ē Do you think a secessionist belongs on the ticket, doesn't make much sense to me. Do you think maybe she's one of those infiltrators the AIP is trying to place in the two major parties, sort of like Alaska's own Manchurian Candidate?
ē As for the wolves, aerial hunting http://www.bentbay.dk/dyr/wolf-ad-200603.gif
ē My personal opinion, yep, the BIL is a redneck Ö

And you took exception to me calling you ďdarliníĒ?

Jennifer, I told you from the onset that I was not debating the merits of Palen and her abilities to be Vice President.  But, what you think is clever and funny, I find dismissive and negative.  I can understand concerns about ANWR, experience (or lack thereof), suits against the Feds, and some of the other points that you have made.  I might even have responded to them in a more upfront manner if I didnít find your responses mocking. It's not the issues that have led me to respond to you, Jennifer, it's your belittling attitude towards Palin.  You didn't even give her twenty-four hours before you started in.  

You want to know what I think, Jennifer?  I think that making her Vice President was premature.  I am concerned about her lack of experience, but I also think that the American people are tired of what we have had for so long.  People have said that they want a change.  Well, we are getting it Ė now we donít like our choices.  Letís take the issue to vote.  McCain made his choice.  Do you think you are going to change his mind?  

For the record, I did not vote for Palin when she ran for Governor.  The reasons that I voted for Knowles are the same reasons that I am reading about now.  She was Mayor of Wasilla.  Big deal.  I didnít find that enough experience to run the State of Alaska.  She won.  She ran against Ex-Senator/Ex-Governor Murkowski and later against Ex-Governor Knowles.  Alaskans wanted a change and we got it with Sarah Palin.  She has been a person that has been good for the State.  Yes, you can Google all the reasons that she should not be considered good (and I think some of your reasons are valid and some are actually pretty funny); but she does not have such an exceptionally high approval rating because we are stupid people.  She has earned it.

I did not vote for aerial wolf hunting.  I did not vote for Pebble mine.  As much as you want to ignore that fact that these issues were on a ballot, they were recently voted on.

Do I believe that Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party?  Yes, if she wasnít she seemed to have attended meetings.  She has a right to explore her political affiliations and just because she was a part of the party, it does not necessarily mean that she was a supporter of Alaska succeeding from the US as a state.  Itís not that an unusual subject of discussion up here Ė and I believe that California has the same thoughts from time to time.  Do I think that this means she should not be VP.  No, not really. I guess I am not that hysterical over this issue.  

Will I vote for McCain because Palin is on the ticket?  Will I not vote for Obama because you have gone on some pretty ridiculous tirades?  Nope.  Iíll vote based on what I read and hear.  Iíll listen to McCain and Palen and to Obama and Biden Ė and then, Iíll make my decision.

Thank you for my introduction to the Ally.  I am now returning to the poetry side of the house.

Alison
JenniferMaxwell
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You didnít think Palin had enough experience even to be Governor of Alaska, Alison, yet youíre ok with McSame wanting her to be the next VP?  Honestly, and no offense, but that makes absolutely no sense at all.

Balladeer, the first to fail to respond to Obamaís call for decency was the Gramps McSame team. Think about it. Obamaís call for decency first went out when his wife was being attacked, being called Obamaís Baby Mama, a fist jabbing terrorist. Guess itís not vilifying in your book when the attack is being directed at a non Republican.
 
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