How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 Gimmick or genius?   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  ]
 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Gimmick or genius?

  Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Alison
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Rara Avis
since 01-27-2008
Posts 9055
Lumpy oatmeal makes me crazy!


225 posted 09-06-2008 11:38 AM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

Jennifer,

Many of your posts have been insulting towards an entire state - not just its governor.  You linked me to an extremely offensive poster in response to a question I had to one of your prior statements.

You have not posted any facts about what is going on up here in terms of development or numbers of animals impacted or even in regards to the plight of the polar bear.  You play on people's emotions.

Sneering references to Alaska being "moose country", referring to someone in a post as a redneck, well, the list goes on and if you read any of my posts you would have understood long ago that you were crossing a line.  

How many wolves have  been killed by aerial hunters?  How many moose are killed by wolves?  How do wolves kill moose?  How many polar bear have died because of climate changes?  Where is potential oil exploration to take place?  What impacts has the existing pipeline had on the environment?  How many moose are taken by hunters?  HOw many moose are there in Alaska?  Which areas are closed off to hunting?  How are hunting allowances determined?  Who makes these decisions?  What other issues could be of concern with Alaska other and how do these impact the environment, the people of Alaska and the country and world?  What were the impacts of a cut bugdet?  Who has suffered from it and how?  Why was it cut?  What occurred in the prior administration that hurt Alaskan elderly that was restored under the Palin administration?  What was the response of the agencies who were impacted by a budget cut?  How did Alaskans feel?  

Please, show us your Google skills and enlighten us with facts.

You don't want answers, Jennifer.  You don't even want questions that don't fit into your snowglobe fantasy of how perfect this state should be for you.

You insult a state by mocking decisions you claim are made by its Governor - even after being told that they were voted on by the people.  You have painted us with your little paint-by-nuber brush - and, thank God, you know nothing of what you write about.

Let's be fair.  Why don't you post which state you are from and we can make a game of it.  I'll see how much unfounded information I can post on your state and you can continue bashing mine.  I bet I can read and type just as fast as you - but I try to comprehend the issues.  So, I guess I'd end up being more fair than you.

A

PS - Jennifer, I respect the moderators too much to expect them to run in and smooth my ruffled feathers over your ill-informed posts.
Tim
Senior Member
since 06-08-99
Posts 1801


226 posted 09-06-2008 11:47 AM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

The Beluga's were overhunted in the Cook inlet and I believe it was somewhere around 2000 that a ban was placed on the practice.

It was hoped by the ban of hunting by the native whalers, the population would increase due to the overhunting.  The numbers have not increased as was hoped.

Part of the problem is the 35 year life span, single births, and 12 to 14 month gestation periods which means it is not like jackrabbits reproducing.

Between 96 and 97 there was an increase of 75 Begula which considering the numbers and reproduction capabilities would be a fairly significant increase in numbers.

I understand there is much to be determined as to why the Cook Inlet (it is the Cook inlet and St. Lawrence Belugas in trouble) but no doubt the fact the majority of Alaskans live on the Cook inlet has impact.  I disagree with a blanket statement pollution has created the problem as I think the unbiased evidence shows otherwise.  The problem was clearly initiated by the hunting and I suspect the native whalers liked to eat.

I also have not doubt the environmental groups will object to about anything and it is not hard to cut and paste their views.

I personally suspect as in most areas, it is a balancing test and I also suspect the reason the majority of Alaskans support Gov. Palen is they think she is attempting to do what is in their best interests and the interests of their state.

From what I know about Alaskans, (I know a couple) they are a proud and independent group of folks who aren't too keen on people on the outside trying to tell them what to do.

Just from a personal perspective, I prefer to rely on the judgment of those there rather than those espousing a political agenda.  

Is Gov. Palen the second coming? Hardly.  Do you have to admire what she has accomplished?  I think it would be hard not to unless your sole objective is defeat.
Alison
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Rara Avis
since 01-27-2008
Posts 9055
Lumpy oatmeal makes me crazy!


227 posted 09-06-2008 11:51 AM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

MB,

quote:
So, in my view, should all good Alaskans, but then I do have a good deal of sympathy because perhaps if I was being promised a $2000 cheque I might overlook some of the stickier issues.


Thank you for the apology, but it is remarks like above that I find so insulting.

Yes, we are so shallow that we are going to let our votes be bought, turn our heads from environmental devastation, and allow the Governor to do as she pleases.

I suggest you Google History of the Alaska Permanent Fund.  It has a history that goes back to Governor Hammond.  It's a sharing of investments of oil revenues.

Let me help you get your facts straight so you can come out against us from another angle.

Hint - $1200 energy rebate.

A
JenniferMaxwell
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 09-14-2006
Posts 2275


228 posted 09-06-2008 12:04 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Alison, the thread isn't about Alaska, it's about Palin and whether or not McCain's choice of Palin was a gimmick or a stroke of genius.  

Since the McCain campaign is refusing to let Palin take questions from the press or even ordinary citizens, sure seems like even they don't think she she has the background or the experience to address the real issues concerning voters in this campaign.

Nope, my intention was never to attack your state and I really don't think I have even though you don't see it that way. My concern is that if by some quirk of fate, McCain should be elected, I like to see his VP at have at least a minimal understanding of national and foreign policy issues, and Palin hasn't shown that she has.

If you'd like to address issues regarding your state and not about Palin, perhaps you should start your own thread where we could move discussions about aerial hunting, wildlife management, etc. I'd love to see those issues discussed in greater detail, but this just isn't the right place to do it.
moonbeam
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 12-24-2005
Posts 2038


229 posted 09-06-2008 12:50 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

~sigh~ Alison

Did I apologise for something?  

Anyway I will now.  Sorry that remark about the cheque insulted you.  It's simple.  It's fact over here that wind farm developers bribe local communities not to object to them developing, big corporations the world over do the same them to develop.  It's not black and white and I was genuinely saying that if I was in the position of being offered money and at the same time being given assurances then I might be tempted to allow my fears to be calmed.  Perhaps the whole of the Alaskan population is so moral and so well informed (with all the facts that Palin and her oil company associates have at their fingertips) that they can make a judgement to share oil revenues without any qualms.

All those questions you have asked could usefully be answered by you.  If you were able to tell me that only one wolf was accidentally killed, for instance, then that would indeed make a difference.  

But as Jenn said, the thread is about Palin.  Thankfully as you so rightly point out, the people or other politicians of Alaska are a sensible lot, and they seem to have thrown out her proposal for a bounty on the heads of wolves and production of a wolf leg.  That's truly great, and says a lot about the compassion of the people.  But what does it say about Palin?  What do her extreme views on abortion say about her?  What do her inflexible views on gay marriage say?

Alaska is wonderful.  It's people are no doubt wonderful.  Palin possibly isn't so, imo.

That's all I'm saying Alison, and I'm sorry again if I upset you.
moonbeam
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 12-24-2005
Posts 2038


230 posted 09-06-2008 04:12 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Alison

This afternoon I googled History of the Alaska Permanent Fund as you suggested.  And I understand about how the principal sum which I believe has now reached about $26 billion came into being as levy on oil companies.  It is totally understandable that Alaskans view the fund as wonderful.  It is also understandable that many other citizens of the US and indeed the world view it as unfair.  For the fund has grown to such as size now that it is necessary to invest in the assets of other countries and states.  To be honest I don't really see the problem myself, as plenty of other countries, the UK included, invest in other parts of the world and draw wealth from them as part of a global trading and investment cycle.  Clearly there are winners and losers, but it strikes me as a bit simplistic to suggest that Alaskans are getting an unfair advantage in these circumstances.

However there are critics of the fund.  Here's another view:

"Sarah Palin's Taken $125,000 Cash from Oil Companies
Posted August 31, 2008 - Richard Arthur, The Huffington Post Blog

How is America to take Sarah Palin seriously when, since 1983, she and her husband have taken $125,000 from the oil companies because she has lived in Alaska?

While the rest of America has been held hostage by high gas prices, her family has actually made a profit. Big Oil, as part of an institutionalized bribe, have paid every resident including children, well over $1000 a year (average) since 1982. This is part of the Alaska program known as the innocuous sounding Permanent Fund Dividend and is the main reason why the oil companies know that Alaska residents will consistently favor oil company policies. Just like Cosa Nostra, Big Oil knows that it's easier to pay off people than convince them especially in a state like Alaska with a tiny population the size of Baltimore. By my estimate, since 1982, Sarah Palin and her husband have received $27,536.41 each and her children collectively $69,766.09 -- all just for living in Alaska and tacitly supporting the Big Oil agenda.

It's no surprise that she's in favor of drilling in ANWR. It should come as no surprise that Sarah Palin has taken every opportunity to further the interests of the oil companies in Alaska - after all, she's been taking oil money since she was on the beauty pageant circuit in 1984 and she's been taking oil money while she was a part time mayor.

While America's families have been struggling to cover the 300% rise of gas at the pump, Palin's family has made out like bandits. Since 9/11, her family has been paid $36,000 in bribes from the oil companies.

Is it normal for policy to be made by leaders who have gotten payouts by big oil? I guess if you're part of the Saudi royal family it is. But this is America. Shouldn't Americans demand that their energy policy be written by a leader who (unlike BUSH or CHENEY or PALIN) has not been supported by oil revenues their entire lives. Maybe now, for once in eight years, America can reject the influence of Big Oil in the White House."
Alison
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Rara Avis
since 01-27-2008
Posts 9055
Lumpy oatmeal makes me crazy!


231 posted 09-06-2008 07:04 PM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

Jennifer,

How is this poster about Palin's ability to be or not be VP?  How am I to not consider it a 'slam' against the state of Alaska, and an offensive one at that?



You are not sticking to issues that have solid foundation.  You are a creating alarmist posts and then hiding behind 'humor' when they are found objectionable.  I didn't make this thread about Alaska - information that is being posted by others in the guise of showing weaknesses in Palin have made it about Alaska.

You just don't get it do you?  And, I am wasting time trying to get you to see how unfair you are being.

A
Alison
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Rara Avis
since 01-27-2008
Posts 9055
Lumpy oatmeal makes me crazy!


232 posted 09-06-2008 07:08 PM       View Profile for Alison   Email Alison   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alison

MB,

You are right about the apology - you didn't make one.  My apologies for misreading something that wasn't there.  It was not meant to be a jab - I just was caught up on the first part of your post that I was responding to.  I think that you really care - and I think that you genuinely want to know.  I'll try to answer your questions, but I won't post on this thread any longer.

I seem to remember you once telling someone that your email is often pretty full.  If you want more information from me, or if you want to me to try to answer your questions, feel free to drop me an email and I'll send my response on to you.

One thing that Jennifer was right about is that this is not about Alaska.  It's about Palin.  Too bad she can't seperate the two.

Wishing you well on a beautiful fall day in Alaska.

Alison

PS - One thought to consider from your article about Alaskans accepting bribes from oil companies.  Alaska sell oil.  We have made huge profits in recent years and this is a way to give money (profits) back to the people in the state.  It is a huge boom for our economy -- and it is a budgeted part of our state budget.  Do you have to understand it?  Not really.  But to say that it is part of the Palin issue when it stems from a fund that was put in place in the 1970's is a bit extreme.  Would you not agree with that?  Don't we have an obligation as readers of newspapers to not take everything at face value?

Posting something that says I accept bribes from oil companies is - again - insulting to say the least.

Sorry, I did say that I would email you if you wanted, but I do get heated up about what I am reading here.  

I came here to enjoy the poetry - and am taking a few days out of here to get my frame of mind out of the Alley.  

To all readers of this thread - Vote as you like - if you are a citizen.  It's your responsibility to do so - if you are a citizen.

A
JenniferMaxwell
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 09-14-2006
Posts 2275


233 posted 09-06-2008 08:04 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Alison, Iíve already apologized to you sincerely, personally and publically in this thread for any of my posts that might have offended you. I honestly donít know what more I can do to make peace with you, so I guess maybe itís best just to say thank you for your opinion and let it go at that.

Have a lovely evening.

Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


234 posted 09-06-2008 09:07 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


Dear Alison,

          In about 1975 I ran across a button put out by a wildlife group.  It showed a bear with a bandoleer and an AK-74 held out in his paw in mockery of some of the then recent right wing posters put out by the NRA.  When I was a child, about the time Alaska became a state, I was a member.  The NRA posters said, Support Your Right to Bear Arms, which made sense to me at the time.  I'm still fond of guns, by the way, I simply don't think there's a really good way to make sure folks use them safelyóbut that's a side issue.

     I loved the poster with the bear holding the AK-74 because that caption read, Support Your Right To Arm Bears.  I thought that was funny.  I didn't actually think it would reduce hunting, mind you; my experience is that humans seem to get hysterical, form packs and try to hunt down and kill anything that they see as dangerous.  Sharks are a primary example.  Every now and again a shark kills somebody and everybody within 200 miles things it's open season on sharks.  Meantime we kill large numbers of them every year for sport and soup and everybody thinks that's fine.  Well, not everybody.

     To see the situation turned around on a button was a classic "man bites dog" turnaround, which is where a lot of humor comes from.  I think I still have that button someplace, here in my L.A. digs.  It's still cute, and still sort of funny, at least to me.  Man bites dog is still news and still a bit unusual.

     As for Alaska, I know very little about it.  I do care about it.  I know there are a lot of folks up there with an independent frame of mind.  I happen to enjoy that in people.  Last I heard women were substantially outnumbered by men, but that may have changed recently.  I did know there were a lot of public lands, but didn't know that it amounted to 97%.  I know that Alaska is not unique in having to deal with indigenous peoples and their customs.  As far as I know Alaska has to deal with the rights of native folks to kill and eat the occasional whale because that is allowed by treaty, and that there has been some discussion about this, lively on occasion.  So far as I know, however, there hasn't been any solid discussion of ceding land back to native peoples as there has been in Canada, nor has there been any talk about the right or, if fact, the obligation of indigenous peoples in Alaska to carry traditional weapons at all times, as there has been in South Africa with the Zulus.

     Frankly, I think that these things are actually not to the point.    

quote:
Alison:

We are not out slaying the wildlife.  We are concerned about the future of Alaska, maintaining the cultures of the indigenous people, and being responsible caretakers for the children to come and those who hope to come here some day.




     But Alison, while I suppose one can try to make nice with other vocabulary, you are hunting animals.  Of course many of you may, at the end of a long stalk, pull out a camera and take a pictureóthat's hunting too, isn't itóbut many of you do in fact "slay wildlife."  You do it for food, among other things.  I myself enjoy a nice steak every now and again, I'm not saying you're a terrible person for doing so.  I don't have the heart to kill and animal that I'm going to eat, but I certainly have the heart to eat him.  Or her.  That makes me a hypocrite, and uncomfortable with the fact.  

     It is in fact one of my many personal flaws as a human being.

     At no point did I suggest that you are not "concerned about the future of Alaska, maintaining the cultures of the indigenous people, and being responsible caretakers for the children to come and those who hope to come here some day."  Not only did I not say such things, I don't happen to agree with them.

     I did make a joke about bears.  Facing enemies that shoot back tends to make everybody more respectful.  This is in fact the linchpin of the NRA argument for allowing everybody to have a handgun.  The joke extended to The CIA, The FBI, the level of paranoia in the country in general today, and the thought of  animals being terrorists with machine guns.  All in all the level of absurdity was in my estimation pretty high.  The fact that I suggested that the place this absurd phony plot might happen would be in Alaska piles an absurdity on top of the already absurd premise.

     Exactly how you might construe this as a remark disparaging Alaska remains to be seen.  Unless you do not see this as a remark disparaging Alaska and simply seek to say something uncomfortable to me while to take a general broad swipe at other people as well, such as Moonbeam, and JM.  When you tend to us the all-inclusive "people" without specifying, such conclusions are not only possible, but likely.

     Please tell me how I belittled "others."  Please tell me who "they" are.  If you are, as I suspect, speaking of yourself, I need to know exactly what I said that belittled you, because there is nothing in my text that I can see that does so, nor was there anything there intended to do so.  If there is something that I said that hurt you, such blindness on my part is inexcusable and was not intended.  But, unless I know, it is impossible to put the force of feeling behind such an apology and clearly you deserve better.

Yours, Bob Kaven

      
Dear Alison,

           Sorry, I wrote this before I saw that you'd decided not to respond to this thread any more.  Of course you shouldn't feel obligated to respond.  Yours, Bob Kaven
JenniferMaxwell
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 09-14-2006
Posts 2275


235 posted 09-06-2008 10:50 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Small town adherents love to talk up the positives of the small town experience, how everyone knows each other and is likely to help out in a crisis. True, but the flip side is that local leaders, who are generally not trained in public administration, are more likely to cross the line between official responsibilities and personal agendas.


Sarah Palin and the Experience Argument to Nowhere
http://www.poppolitics.com/archives/2008/09/sarah-palin-and-the-experience-argument-to-nowhere
moonbeam
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 12-24-2005
Posts 2038


236 posted 09-07-2008 04:43 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam



quote:
PS - One thought to consider from your article about Alaskans accepting bribes from oil companies.  Alaska sell oil.  We have made huge profits in recent years and this is a way to give money (profits) back to the people in the state.  It is a huge boom for our economy -- and it is a budgeted part of our state budget.  Do you have to understand it?  Not really.  But to say that it is part of the Palin issue when it stems from a fund that was put in place in the 1970's is a bit extreme.  Would you not agree with that?  Don't we have an obligation as readers of newspapers to not take everything at face value?

Posting something that says I accept bribes from oil companies is - again - insulting to say the least.


Alison!  Wow, Jenn's, er, energetic approach is rubbing off on you.  I did NOT say YOU took bribes.  That was someone else's viewpoint, and in any case I certainly wouldn't personalise it.  Can we agree that "you" means a collective you, not you personally please.

The point is that I don't think any decent person knowingly takes a bribe.  The key word is "knowingly".  I speak from long personal experience Alison, 32 years in business, law and finance.  Perhaps it's made me overly cynical, but the point is that I examine systems, mechanisms, legal processes - call them what you will - against the patterns, the templates, that my experiences show me as recurring.  The Permanent Fund loosely fits a model whereby a powerful special interest group will more or less directly fund payments to people who could stand in the way of its interests.  

Now note this!  I am NOT saying that this necessarily is a BAD thing, but one thing I do know (because I have seen it several times) is that it is a mechanism open to abuse which relies very heavily on the integrity and morality of the parties closely involved in the calculation and transfer of funds and, more important, what is given in return for those funds.  For example in one instance I can think of the totally innocent locals were sold the idea of a hydro dam in their stream, without being given all the facts of the consequences or the small print of the agreement with the developer.  They were effectively "paid off" without knowing this was happening to them.  That is why Palin is so important to the current situation, because as I understand it (and please correct me if I am wrong) she is quite a powerful force in the ongoing negotiations with the oil companies.

It's HER motives and integrity I'm interested in Alison, NOT the prescience of a Governor decades ago in setting up the fund, NOT even the sincerity of the Alaskan people, but HER, Palin, a possible President of the USA.  You can go on all you like about the history and motives behind the Permanent Fund and the theories of Wildlife Management and ecological balances, there are no doubt some very wonderful people trying to do very wonderful things, but right now all I'm interested in is trying to fathom what's going on inside Sarah Palin's mind.  

Perhaps I can ask you a question Alison.  Have you personally seen and understood all the legal documents, contracts, agreements, easements, charges etc connected with both the Permanent Fund and the current arrangements with the oil companies?  It's a silly question I know, but you take the point?

I suppose what I am saying here is that in the right hands your Permanent Fund could be a wonderful force for good.  In the wrong hands a possibly easily misused instrument.  I'd have to know a lot more about the various safeguards, checks and restrictions it involves before making an informed judgement.  

JenniferMaxwell
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 09-14-2006
Posts 2275


237 posted 09-07-2008 08:16 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

I find some of Palinís views and positions quite disturbing and frightening. For instance, in one of her speeches she says the Iraq war is a mission from God. Like how does she know that? Does God actually speak to Sarah Palin? Since thatís highly unlikely then it seems sheís either slightly delusional or she lets her rapture ready religious beliefs (and her pastor) dictate and influence her world view and political agenda.


Tim
Senior Member
since 06-08-99
Posts 1801


238 posted 09-07-2008 10:12 AM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

I think I'll opt for delusional.  Incompetence, misprision, bad mother, anti-environmentalist, successionist, etc., etc., etc.
The people of Alaska are good people, I guess they just must be pretty ignorant to elect and support such a sinister individual.  
Sheesh, just look at her hairstyle.
The far left has alleged pretty much everything else so I suppose mental illness is the logical next step.
Who said animums should be kept out of politics?
moonbeam
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 12-24-2005
Posts 2038


239 posted 09-07-2008 10:24 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam


quote:
I think I'll opt for delusional.  Incompetence, misprision, bad mother, anti-environmentalist, successionist, etc., etc., etc.

Lol Tim.  That's just the point I think she's far from delusional and extremely competent.  She's a clever, perhaps even inspirational, speaker, a hard headed business woman and from what I can gather a pretty ruthless opponent if you get on the wrong side of her.  She has some great leadership qualities and seems to me to be just exactly the sort of woman who COULD sway a state or even a nation.  She seems to have done the first, and may be on her way to doing the second.

That's what worries me.  
JenniferMaxwell
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 09-14-2006
Posts 2275


240 posted 09-07-2008 02:07 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Seems Barracuda Sarahís in hiding being tutored in Neocon 101. Maybe if we get really lucky the McCain campaign might forget which hidey-hole they put her in.
Sarah, not ready now but who cares, she's John's "partner and soulmate". Wonder how Cindy feels about that.

Yep, that thought occurred to me, maybe sheís just pandering to the Fundamentalists to get elected as Bush did. Then again, her snarky attitude and pimping for big oil makes her seem more like a Cheney. Anyone know if she has a Haliburton handbag?

[This message has been edited by JenniferMaxwell (09-07-2008 04:44 PM).]

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


241 posted 09-07-2008 02:27 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"Johnny's"

That's over the line.

His name is John.
He earned it.

Keep it up; you may manage to get him
elected all by yourself.

John


.
JenniferMaxwell
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 09-14-2006
Posts 2275


242 posted 09-07-2008 02:47 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


Thanks for your opinion, Huan. You may have a point, but compared to "slick willy" and "the peanut farmer", Johnny seems rather mild to me.


Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


243 posted 09-07-2008 03:09 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

It may to you but not to me
and a lot of other vets.

John McCain is a man of remarkable
courage, (given the chance I would have
been out of that camp in a heartbeat);
and character, for he, despite his experiences,
sought a national reconcilation with the people
who put him through a Hell none
who were not there can imagine.

Anyone who has paid those kind of dues
deserves respect regardless of what you think
of his politics.


.
moonbeam
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 12-24-2005
Posts 2038


244 posted 09-07-2008 04:08 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Huan

Although I agree that John McCain deserves respect, the Alley is not the place he is necessarily going to find it.

People such as yourself, whose sole contribution to these outrageously disrespectful threads:
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum6/HTML/001639.html
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum6/HTML/001693.html

was to post a link to a silly cartoon, have completely forfeited the right to expect any respect for politicians they revere.

M
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


245 posted 09-07-2008 04:30 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"People such as yourself"


Please cite one of MY posts;
there's been more than enough of them.


PS

I found the cartoon you were speaking of;
you can't be serious ...

.
JenniferMaxwell
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 09-14-2006
Posts 2275


246 posted 09-07-2008 04:43 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

There are Vets who don't share your respect for McCain, Huan:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/AntiMcCain_vets_ready_their_salvo_against_0302.html
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/

However, because I do respect you, I will glady change my post.
moonbeam
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 12-24-2005
Posts 2038


247 posted 09-07-2008 05:18 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Huan

I couldn't care less about the darned cartoon, lol. In fact I thought it very funny.

The point I was making was that you (and other senior members of PiP for that matter) replied in a thread which was blatantly racist, and taken especially with the perpertrator's other post, likened Obama to a mass murdering jew killing madman.  

Don't you think it's slightly hypocritical of you, having not made a murmer of protest to that shameful display to now make a fuss when a politician you happen to like is slightly denigrated?
  


Tim
Senior Member
since 06-08-99
Posts 1801


248 posted 09-07-2008 10:02 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

One has to enjoy political discourse.  Unfortunately not much discourse is occuring.

Instead, it seems to be a contest to see who can cut a paste from the wing-nuts on both ends of the political spectrum spouting their vitriol about the opposing candidates.

It doesn't seem that truth has much to do with the postings and no one is going to back down from there accusations, true or not.

If someone attacks your candidate, then it is a personal affront and insult.

I don't take it as a personal affront, and if there is an insult, it is to the intellect of the body politics of both parties
who are concerned about our country...  Individuals that realize although we have differing opinions on issues, the country is best served by attempting to reconcile our differences and strive to a common goal, the good of the United States of America.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


249 posted 09-08-2008 01:30 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



I think that Senator McCain  deserves to be called Senator McCain.  He was elected to the office.  Senator Obama deserves the same.  The pet names are probably not useful in the political conversation.  I have found some of the Republican twists on Senator Obama's name to be upsetting, and the attempted smears of him as though he were a Jihadi.  I think those too we unnecessary.  Calling Senator McCain "Johnny" seems an expression of contempt, the use of familiarity where none has been agreed upon.  It many not be intended as such, but it did come across that way.

     That said, and with all due respect to the Senator, I think that his reversal of policy on the use of torture does no good to the people serving now on active duty, nor to the future soldiers on active duty in years to come.  Senator McCain has sufficient reason to be against torture as a policy before changing his mind to go along with the policy of the current administration, who has also said, at times, that American's do not torture and that torture is immoral before being forced to acknowledge the reality of that policy and those actions over the past year or so.

     To have a former Prisoner of war who was a victim of torture and who broke under it and confessed to false crimes under its influence now support its use as a valid information gathering tool is a stunning indictment of Senator McCain.  I did not think I would need to say this a year ago, when I was clear about my admiration for the Senator's character in these pages.

     I am also upset that a Senator with such a reputation for being supportive of soldiers and of the community of veterans would vote down so many bills in support of military and VA programs.  Rather than accepting my word on this, I suggest that you try looking at some objective sources of information,  For Huan Yi, I would suggest that there are other publications than The National Review, and that I am not suggesting he look at left-wing publications such as The Nation.  Pick a few that you feel are solid and centerist and check it out as a matter of straight information, not as opinion.

     Sincerely yours, Bob Kaven  
 
  Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> Gimmick or genius?   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors