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Replying vs Posting

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Temptress
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0 posted 08-27-2008 12:31 AM       View Profile for Temptress   Email Temptress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Temptress


I am positively annoyed at the level of participation in the Dark Poetry Forum.

I am seeing more and more multiple postings, and more and more poems with so few replies.

>

sorry...had to vent. I have been back for a few weeks now, and it really is making me mad.
moonbeam
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1 posted 08-27-2008 02:34 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

I totally agree.

Only Jennifer Maxwell should be allowed to post in Dark.

Her poems are so cheerful

Heh.
JenniferMaxwell
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2 posted 08-27-2008 05:28 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Doesn't "No" in the critique message on the poster's profile mean they don't want comments? I just quickly checked and 4 of 6 recent posters in Dark said "No" to the  encourage critique question on their profile.

Sometimes I really don't want replies or responses. I just want to post my poem where it can be read, enjoyed, whatever. Am I not allowed to do that? As a matter of fact, I'd really like to see us have the option of turning off the Post Reply button.

[This message has been edited by JenniferMaxwell (08-27-2008 06:24 PM).]

moonbeam
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3 posted 08-27-2008 06:10 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Perhaps Temptress doesn't mean critique Jenn.  Perhaps she's simply asking for things like:

"Hey cool poem, but kinda dark"

"Nice write - full of horror - can relate"

"Keep it up, it's soooo miserable"

"I can feel your pain"

"This is so wonderfully woeful"
JenniferMaxwell
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4 posted 08-27-2008 06:18 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

MB, give me the key right now or learn to share.


moonbeam
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5 posted 08-27-2008 06:25 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam



quote:
MB, give me the key right now or learn to share.


Er ...

This is obviously a transatlantic thing? or

umm, an age thing?  or

a girl thing?

JenniferMaxwell
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6 posted 08-27-2008 06:36 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

It's a boonies thing, MB, best to let it go.

Anyway, I was being serious about whether it's fair to assume all posters are looking/hoping for comments, replies, responses, critiques, whatever. I mean how many collections of print poetry come with one of those annoying little inserts asking you to send it in giving your reaction to the poems you just read?

Dark writers are sometimes a different breed. We just want to bleed, no salves, ointments or bandages please!


Grinch
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7 posted 08-27-2008 07:42 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
I am positively annoyed at the level of participation in the Dark Poetry Forum.


Why are you so annoyed? Ron built the Forums so that people are free, within certain limits, to use them for posting poetry and replying in a manner they choose, so isnít it reasonable to expect people to do just that?

People are allowed to post up to three poems a day in any forum they have access to and are only encouraged to reply not obligated to.  Given those guidelines anybody whoís posting three poems a day and no replies is, as far as I understand it, perfectly free to do so. If you donĎt like how the posting or reply system works why donít you complain to Ron directly in the Mod forum or post a suggestion in the Suggestions forum to change the system.

Getting mad or annoyed at the members for doing what theyíre allowed to do just seems like a bit of a waste of time to me.

Just my opinion.

JenniferMaxwell
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8 posted 08-27-2008 08:34 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Waves to Grinch.

Maybe it's a hugs and strokes thing Grinch? Perhaps she just feels bad because of the lack of hugs and strokes being passed out in Dark?  

Speaking of being annoyed, this is what annoyed me, posted in the Dark Forum:

"I will be doing searches on looking for replies as well as posting and sending out reminders."

What's next, a ruler across the knuckles, a note to our Moms if we don't perform according to expectations which have never been spelled out, or post x number of replies on x number of poems? Well, my Mom's dead and my knuckles have callouses from years of abuse. All the hugs and strokes in the world won't even begin to touch the pain.

Leave Britney alone! Let the poets in Dark do their own thing!

Someone needs a Midol. Maybe it's me. Probably not you Grinch.
Temptress
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9 posted 08-27-2008 11:54 PM       View Profile for Temptress   Email Temptress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Temptress

I believe I said I was annoyed, not mad. There is a difference.

Some people do want their work replied to.
The people who want to bleed all over the place (multiple postings)and not reply cause those people's work to fall off into the oblivion on the Dark pages. It simply is not fair to be so greedy and cause other people's poetry to fall to where it can't be found.

"...buried way beneath the sheets
I think she's having a meltdown..."
"Buckcherry"

Temptress
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10 posted 08-28-2008 12:01 AM       View Profile for Temptress   Email Temptress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Temptress

This is the Alley, and I love it because I am free to express my opinion here just as well as anyone else is. It is not a waste of time in my opinion to encourage a different kind of participation.

"...buried way beneath the sheets
I think she's having a meltdown..."
"Buckcherry"

Temptress
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11 posted 08-28-2008 12:13 AM       View Profile for Temptress   Email Temptress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Temptress

So, you are annoyed. So am I....but according to someone elses post, being annoyed is a waste of time. Not to me, and apparently not to you. Good. We are both within our rights.

If you happen to get a "reminder" not an "order" (referencing your knuckle slapping comment)you can choose to ignore it. It will be clearly marked on the subject line, and there is a little button called delete.

And I am talking about comments not critique. Just because people don't want critiques doesn't mean they don't want comments. Sometimes even something like "hey I read this" will do for some people.

K..I'm done for now. I'm off to hug and stroke some poetry. Possibly even some of the poetry posted by everyone who commented here so far.

So, get ready...I could be like the aunt that pinches you on the cheeks when she visits.



Thanks for taking time to give me your opinions so far everyone!

"...buried way beneath the sheets
I think she's having a meltdown..."
"Buckcherry"

JenniferMaxwell
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12 posted 08-28-2008 01:39 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Just so you know, you havenít encouraged participation, quite the opposite as far as Iím concerned.

Dark has been my safe haven for nearly two years. I liked it there because it was a quiet corner, away from the crowd, where one didnít have to play the ďyou comment on mine and Iíll comment on yours gameĒ, where I could be sincere - comment on poems I really liked without feeling forced or compelled to reply to poems I really didnít care for.

It was a place where I could turn to when things got a bit dark in my life, where I felt comfortable enough and safe enough to post poems about things I couldnít talk about anyplace else. I no longer feel comfortable, I no longer feel safe when I read these words posted by a moderator mocking something Iíve said:

ďHey...can I stroke your poem? I've been accused of wanting hugs and strokes for good poetry in here. Is that so wrong? LOL! ď and ďhugging this one againĒ on one of my own poems.

Just a couple more things I think you should know and then Iím done. One is that cheek pinching and unwelcome hugs are forms of abuse, as is mocking. And the last one is, Iíve had quite enough abuse in my life, so as long as there is a moderator in Dark pinching cheeks, disrespecting my boundaries with unwelcome hugs, I wonít be posting there anymore.

moonbeam
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13 posted 08-28-2008 05:12 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

I actually agree with Temptress about people carpet bombing and not replying to others - I have a thing about it.  The problem is she's in the wrong forum and the solution she's trying to impose is in any event the wrong one.  Rather than trying to encourage what would possibly be insincere replies of the fluffy bunny kind, what she should be doing is privately e-mailing the offenders and telling them to stop bombing.

She's concerned about poems being pushed off the bottom.  That I suppose is quite a valid concern, but it won't really be solved by more replies, because presumably the multiple posted poems will also get more replies.  It's simply a matter of sharing the limited slots on the first page more fairly with a fairer spread of originating posts.

nakdthoughts
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14 posted 08-28-2008 06:30 AM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

Just a comment, Jennifer (although I rarely post in Dark but read all forums when I have time) If one didn't want to be read or commented on then why post in a public forum at all.

Why not just write for oneself and like I did years ago print it out or save on one's own  computer.

In defense of Temptress who has been on this site almost from the beginning, she is just  making a statement about those who post but never participate in responding. She is and has always been one of fairness and maybe her written words were misunderstood. One of the main "things" about piptalk is the comraderie and lasting friendships made on here and that can only be done by responding to one another either in email or on forum, whether it is to say you enjoyed the words, can relate to them, or just to say  you read them.

I have been reading this and the critical analysis  threads the past few days and I think you can't always tell how someone actually feels by their words when a voice does not accompany them.
In all fairness,  there have  been other times when no one responds to a poet at all and I am sure they wonder why (without critiques)...and maybe it is because they never respond to others but just feel it is ok to join  a forum and post away.

I am not taking  sides, just trying to explain so you don't leave the Dark  forum because of a misunderstanding.

I am not a moderator but have been here for about 8 years or so and consider this one of, if not the fairest forum without the infighting that goes on in others. So many people leave other forums  to come here because of it.
And sometimes the smallest response to a new or younger poet helps them to feel understood or that they are not alone with the problems in their world.

Hoping you stay~~ and have a great day
Sincerely,
Maureen
Temptress
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15 posted 08-28-2008 07:50 AM       View Profile for Temptress   Email Temptress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Temptress

jennifer
I had already responded to your poem once. I spent last night responding to poetry I liked or that made an impression on me. I am sorry if that offends you.


"...buried way beneath the sheets
I think she's having a meltdown..."
"Buckcherry"
Temptress
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16 posted 08-28-2008 07:55 AM       View Profile for Temptress   Email Temptress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Temptress

Oh, and I was just as offended by your knuckle rapping comment as you may have been by my aunt pinching cheeks comment.

except

mine was meant to lighten a mood that was getting more and more sarcastic with each of your post. Yes, I was laughing, though not with mockery or sarcasm.

"...buried way beneath the sheets
I think she's having a meltdown..."
"Buckcherry"

JenniferMaxwell
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17 posted 08-28-2008 08:31 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Thanks for your input, Maureen. I just need to claify a point. What I said was that sometimes I really donít want comments on a poem. I didnít say anything about not wanting the poem read so your argument about just printing out your own poems is off target and feels a lot like youíre putting words in my mouth I never said. Iím sure that wasnít your intent, just a simple misunderstanding.

You donít have to be a rocket scientist to figure out how to get more comments, if thatís what youíre looking for. You could do what a poster in Open did and leave a gazillion meaningless copy and paste comments on other peopleís poems and youíll be sure to get a lot of the same in return.

Some people donít write for comments, they just want to have their work read. Those who are looking for comments soon learn you have to play the give to get game. Thatís not a game Iím interested in, I donít care for it much, and I donít have time for it. Knowing my poem has been read is often more than enough for me. Is there anything wrong with that? And I certainly donít want people to waste their time commenting or feel pressured  to comment on one of mine if they really donít care for the poem.

When I see a new poster in Dark, I read their work. If thereís something in the poem that resonates with me, I leave a comment, if not, I move on. Isnít that what most people do not only in Dark but in other forums?

If youíre looking to dialog about a problem in your life, I feel the place to do that is in the discussion forums, not the poetry forums. Youíll get better advice (usually) and more responses by posting about your depression, your troubles at home, etc., in one of the discussion forums rather than by posting a poorly written, unproofed poem in Dark.

Those who really want to improve their writing, or post for serious critique, always have the option of posting their work in CA.

I think the real problem is that recently there have been a few posters doing the three a day max, which, as Grinch mentioned is allowed according Ronís rules. So letís call a spade a spade and deal with that before sending out harassing notices to people who refuse to leave fluff comments on poems they really canít identify with or in some cases, donít even like.
Grinch
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18 posted 08-28-2008 02:12 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
I believe I said I was annoyed, not mad. There is a difference.


No, I think youíll find that you definitely said mad.

quote:
and it really is making me mad.



Hello Jen,

quote:
Speaking of being annoyed, this is what annoyed me, posted in the Dark Forum:

"I will be doing searches on looking for replies as well as posting and sending out reminders."


Please tell me this doesnít mean sending ďremindersĒ by email, as if the internet isnít already awash with pointless emails.

Reading the above though has certainly encouraged me, itís encouraged me to remove my email from view, itís also encouraged me to tick the box on my profile requesting not to be sent email by Administrators or Moderators.

I recommend that anyone who doesnít want an unsolicited ďreminderĒ of this nature does the same.

If anybody still feels the urge to waste my time sending pointless ďremindersĒ theyíre likely to get a polite reply back explaining what they can do with it. At the same time Iíll be asking the site owner why Iím receiving emails when Iíve clearly indicated that I donít wish to receive them. If the ďremindersĒ continue Iíll report the originating email address as a potential spammer.

If all that fails Iíll probably get annoyed or even slightly mad.

I don't like me when I'm mad.

SEA
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19 posted 08-28-2008 02:15 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

Jennifer M. this is directed at you, not Temptress!!.....

"When I see a new poster in Dark, I read their work. If thereís something in the poem that resonates with me, I leave a comment, if not, I move on. Isnít that what most people do not only in Dark but in other forums? "

yes, actually, it is. I don't reply to poems I didn't like. It's that simple. I don't leave profound replies, but I quote parts that I liked or wish I had thought of, whatever...the thing is if I say I liked it, then I did. If I didn't like it, I just don't reply.

Seems you are overreacting and being a little too sensitive. But? that is just my opinion, it's worth what you paid for it  

[This message has been edited by SEA (08-28-2008 07:03 PM).]

Temptress
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20 posted 08-28-2008 04:46 PM       View Profile for Temptress   Email Temptress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Temptress

oops..I did say mad didn't I. My apologies for saying I didn't say it.

So, what though. I'm annoyed or mad. Let me be. This is The Alley. I can understand giving me your thoughts on the posting and  replying but please don't try to dictate what my own feelings should be on the subject. That really does annoy me.

So, I went over the top a little in saying I would be sending out reminders. Its what I was used to doing before the 3 a day in each forum limit came along for people that were poetry bombing. Then it wasn't a big deal. I apologize for sounding like a dictator. That wasn't my intention.


Sea,
The only thing I was being overly sensitive about was the sarcasm in this thread and the comments being made about how I must feel bad because etc..etc...I don' like being attacked for my opinion. Disagreed with is fine, but being belittled is quite another.

"...buried way beneath the sheets
I think she's having a meltdown..."
"Buckcherry"

nakdthoughts
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21 posted 08-28-2008 05:37 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

Just a basic question....if no one responds  or replies at all...how do you know you are being read?

And as far as fluff etc...whose to say what's fluff to another ..and as far as many replies go, I never stated anything about the number of replies  but that if someone says something, you do at least know that it probably was read and someone did take the time to let you know. A common courtesy on almost all poet forums.

And I do agree Jennifer  about the cut and paste responses but that is another  subject and has been dealt with over the years in many previous discussions. If you ever look at any of my poems (and many probably are fluff or deal with my life), I don't receive many responses nor do I look for them  other than from specific poets who keep in touch. I accept whatever I get and am happy with that.
Without a response how do you know you are read or not...this site does not  count "reads".

One more thing  poets write  about reality, dreams, happiness, sadness and I guess fictional subjects and in most they write what they know about.

These forums are not meant to give professional help to  anyone needing it other than to suggest seeking  help elsewhere... but when someone needs a shoulder or wants to feel that someone else knows how they feel and can lift their spirits or  feel their loss, it is done here and many times in poetry and the responses   and more poetry often inspired by others.  I don't understand the need to explain why so many of us love it here.
I do  disagree with being made to  respond  but I think it was just a statement to try and get newcomers to know that it may get them known better to at least respond to a few poems that they may like. But some come here and post away and never...I mean never post a response to anyone.
That said I am done on the subject. I just don't want to be misunderstood.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion but sometimes  too much is made of a comment.

M
moonbeam
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22 posted 08-28-2008 05:43 PM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Temptress

It seems to me that if you post in the Alley "flamin' and complainin'" and what you say causes someone else to flame and complain about what you say, then that's all part of the game and within the rules as long as it's done "respectfully". If you want then to flame and complain about their flamin and complainin about your flamin and complainin then I guess that's perfectly legitimate too - er I could go on, and on ...

Which kind of brings me to my (rare for me) serious point, which is that in my (interfering) opinion you, with your status as a moderator, erred in your judgement when you decided "as a moderator" to flame and complain in the Alley about an issue such as this.  However you felt, imo, we are dealing essentially with an administrative matter, and one that could have been dealt with professionally with a post in practically any other discussion forum, or a formal reminder of the strict 3 posts a day rule in Dark.  By making it emotional you mixed the authority you have as a mod with the passion you felt as a person; a pretty powerful recipe, and one likely to ruffle feathers if you don't mind me saying so.

Having said all that, as far as I'm concerned you can heave over to CA anyday and chivvy the life out of recalcitrant posters.     
Grinch
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23 posted 08-28-2008 05:53 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
I can understand giving me your thoughts on the posting and replying but please don't try to dictate what my own feelings should be on the subject.


Excuse me for being blunt but that sounds a tad hypocritical from someone who was advocating emailing members who are following the rules to dictate how they should post and reply.

As I said earlier getting mad or annoyed at the members for doing what theyíre allowed to do just seems like a bit of a waste of time to me.

Thatís not to say you donít have a right to get mad or annoyed, just donít be surprised if the members exercise their right to do the same.

serenity blaze
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24 posted 08-28-2008 05:54 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

"chivvy the life out of recalcitrant posters"

Now that's poetry!

And um, I don't really have anything to contribute to this discussion, I just enjoyed that particular turn of a phrase.

Hope that's okay.
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