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Passions in Poetry

This sickens me

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Susan Caldwell
Member Rara Avis
since 12-27-2002
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Florida


0 posted 05-28-2008 12:13 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i0obdVKtwUqMG6gEUqc6mnjat9hAD90U9A900

How the hell does this happen?

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

Sunshine
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1 posted 05-28-2008 09:22 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Because we are losing our innate sense, m'friend. We are not, and really never have been, in a situation where we should ever wait for the government to help us. We should rely on our inner instincts, but now we are told to "sit and wait - help will come."

I disagree with that philosophy.

I'm thinking that our own serenity will come in with some facts and figures, but I cannot believe you are really surprised by this announcement. When world shattering experiences happen, and to my own ignorance, I'm going to say by "natural causes", one should not be surprised at anything, but react accordingly, as each and every person still has the capability to do so; and if we see those who cannot react, then we need to be humane, and help those who cannot help themselves.

But rely on the government?

Not at the outset, darling. Never. We must learn to rely on ourselves, and then help our friends, who we hope, are helping theirs.

It's a matter of going back to the basics.

Balladeer
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2 posted 05-28-2008 09:46 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Amen, Sunshine...
serenity blaze
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3 posted 05-28-2008 11:26 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

First you have to imagine losing everything.

How hard would you cling to even a deadly piece of sheet metal and nails to give your children a home?

I happen to know someone who works for FEMA, and his job is to evict these people living in these trailers.

The majority of them have no place else to go.

The few who had assetts are watching them dwindle away as they support a system that will no longer support them.

If you have never suffered from toxic shock, then you don't understand that you can't think clearly--you haven't seen the basic "triage" of walk-in clinics. Respiratory ailments, rashes, and the inevitable dissolution of family ties as these families re-prioritize, ill-equipped with coping skills for a situation that no one had ever imagined.

Please come to New Orleans, Kari, Mike.

I'll show you the Claiborne Underpass where families are helping themselves as they live in cardboard boxes.

The rest of us are trying to hold our lives together and it's like trying to sew seaweed...

These are the people you won't hear about. You might hear about them in Gulfport, but I blame the upper echelon of New Orleans as well. They don't want you to see the people who are living on the streets--there are five abandoned houses on my street alone.

Nope. They show you the St. Louis Cathedral and vie for the opportunity to host the Superbowl because that is the BUSINESS of New Orleans, and people like these are just bad press. And people wanna know what's wrong with me these days...?

laughing

I'm having trouble just holding on to what we've got. If it weren't for my kids, I'd have packed a bag and headed for a commmunity kinder to the homeless.

That's just a little insight.

And yes, sometimes I blow off some steam. Other times it's quiet, like tonight, and I gather my important papers and stare at the ceiling and wonder if it will be there by Christmas. I'm trying to schedule surgeries and doctor's appointments, because my family is one of the lucky ones, and we'd better stand in line at the triage clinics--because I promise you that's all the medical care we're getting here.

They stabilize you and release you.

In another forum I described my last doctor's appointment, witnessing a man puking in the parking lot. I told a nurse and she said "We KNOW" and put an "Out to Lunch" sign up in the window.

The people of New Orleans and Mississippi need a bit of counsel on how to go about helping themselves and rebuildig a life out of ....gone.

The Mental Health Association calls this Katrina Sydrome, because they can't rightly call this Post Traumatic Stress--because the stress is ongoing.

But by all means, book your conventions, come to our football games, and spend some money...

Did ya'll know two members of this forum lost EVERYTHING. I know of one who stomped through benzene sludge to look for his CD's, in St. Bernard parish. St. Bernard--the patron saint of charitable deeds.

Why did he do this? Because they were HIS, dammit and it was all he had left.

You've got to have a little something to make a little something more--even street business knows that. But when you start getting sicker and sicker and your children are suffering? The pressure is maddening.

It just so happens that the funeral of a friend's child of 12 was today--nod--cancer.

So I guess ya'll caught me in a somber mood.

Do we let the dead bury the dead too?
water_stained_wisdom
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4 posted 05-29-2008 12:44 AM       View Profile for water_stained_wisdom   Email water_stained_wisdom   Edit/Delete Message     View IP for water_stained_wisdom

quote:
First you have to imagine losing everything.

The rest of us are trying to hold our lives together and it's like trying to sew seaweed...

You've got to have a little something to make a little something more

The people of New Orleans and Mississippi need a bit of counsel on how to go about helping themselves and rebuildig a life out of ....gone.




lets put the amen where it belongs....

this wasnt some midwest tornado...
it cant be fixed with homemade cornbread and quilts by well meaning neighborhood ladies.

Dont even try and explain it anymore KA--
save your energy for getting well...
no one can understand unless they've lived through it...the rest better pray we never have to.





"this cyber medium is over-run with keyboard poets & prophets who believe their every word to be profound"

-internet quote-
serenity blaze
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5 posted 05-29-2008 01:45 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I won't try to explain anymore--because I can't. But Susan? Now I remember why I encouraged you to read "Swamplands of the Soul" by James Hollis. If you have it, open it up, k? Right there in the Introduction--
The Search for Meaning is a quote--oh let me type the whole durned thing:

"It is not given to us to grasp the truth, which is identical with the divine, directly. We perceive it only in reflection, in example and symbol, in singular and related appearances. It meets us as a kind of life which is incomprehensible to us, and yet we cannot free ourselves from the desire to comprehend it."---Goethe

Hollis continues:

"There is a thought, a recurrent fantasy perhaps, that the purpose of life is to achieve happiness. After all, even the Constitution of the United States promises 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.' Who does not long to arrive some distant day at that sunlit meadow where, untroubled, we may rest easy, abide awhile and be happy?

But nature, or fate, or the gods, has another thought which keeps interrupting this fantasy. The split, the discrepancy between what we long for and what we suffer as limitation, has haunted the Western imagination. To Pascal we are but fragile reeds that may easily be destroyed by an indifferent universe, and yet we are thinking reeds who can conjure with that cosmos. Goeth's Faust speaks of the two souls that contend within his breast, one clinging to this spinning planet and the other longing for the heavens. Nietzsche reminds us that day wherein we discover and grieve the fact that we are not God. William Hazlitt observes:

"Man is the only animal that laughs and weeps; for he is the only animal that is struck with the difference between what things are, and what they ought to be."

* * *

So I thank those of you who do, laugh and weep with me. I love you fiercely.

There's been a lot of questions of this sort, not always Katrina related, but kind souls who, like me, are overwhelmed by the apparent chaos that our world has become.

Kari and Mike? The kindnesses you've both extended to me will never be forgotten. I still try to "pay it forward", even if it's futility. Even if it's just sneaking a bag lunch and a book down to the guy who lives under the bridge and hangs out at the convenience store.

*shrug*

He might not want more help than that. I dunno. But I like to think he's enjoying the Edgar Allen Poe.     I also like to think that maybe Pascal was right, and love and kindness in action is an energy that could possibly practice continuum.

But I'll leave that discussion to the scholars.

Sometimes I think that as we become more aware, life becomes so increasingly painful that we welcome, finally, the enemy:

death.
Susan Caldwell
Member Rara Avis
since 12-27-2002
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Florida


6 posted 05-29-2008 09:29 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell


What neighbors were supposed to help?  I pretty much think, short of holding anotherís head up to keep them from drowning in the flood waters, there wasnít anything left to give. Further, what those of us outside of the area could give wasnít what they needed most and certainly a bit hard to get to them.  

Pretty much the entire area was devastated.  There was no good old fashion barn raising that was going to fix that.  Leveeís needed fixed, debris and tons of it, needed removed. Tons of sick and injured that couldnít help themselves let alone their neighbors.

But here is the thing; the article I linked wasnít about what should have happened as much as it was about people, mostly children, getting horribly sick from chemicals in the FEMA trailers they had no choice but to live in.  

Yes, I said no choice.  I will clarify; I donít mean that as all encompassing.  I am sure there was a very low percentage of people that didnít have to live in them, the lucky ones that didnít have their life savings in the equity of a home that is now non-existent or worth close to nothing;  the ones that may have had family that took them in and was able to afford to help them find a new start outside of NOLA. The ones that didnít lose all hope and maybe even their sanity when they lost everything they had worked their entire lives for and/or on top of all that lost their family members as well.

But back to those FEMA trailers.  Anyone honestly believe the high (not safe) levels of chemicals were NOT known before they were sent/set up?  I personally doubt it.  They knew and they sent them anyway because they didnít have a better plan or they didnít care.  

In the meantime itís projected that 10-15 years from now those same children will probably be suffering from some form of cancer and most probably dying from it.  

We are all, each and every one of us a disaster away from being there. Being the one with a sick child, knowing that after everything we had been through, losing our home, our belongings, our jobs, that sometime in the future we are going to lose our child/children as well because someone made the decision to use trailers that were not within health and safety standards.  

That goes beyond a slap in the face or a kick in the gut when you are down.  It screams ďwe donít care about anything but appearances,Ē it screams, ďyou are not important enough to put the extra effort in for.Ē  

I donít think itís the time to talk about what should have happened.  Itís well beyond the time to fix it.  I am tired of the finger pointing.  Itís been three years. Itís time to stop hoping it goes away.  Itís time to stop ignoring the real issues.  It is beyond time to stop blaming the people there for their circumstances.  

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

Balladeer
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7 posted 05-29-2008 10:45 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Anyone honestly believe the high (not safe) levels of chemicals were NOT known before they were sent/set up?

I am tired of the finger pointing


huh?
Susan Caldwell
Member Rara Avis
since 12-27-2002
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8 posted 05-29-2008 11:32 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Michael,

Sorry, sometimes I try to be a bit obscure because of who I work for.

and because I work for them I know they knew.  They test for it.  The manufacturer tests for it.  They knew and they sent them anyway.  

The finger pointing reference came from an entirely different section of my rambling and had nothing to do with the chemicals in the FEMA trailers.  What I was referring to was that there are a lot of people that seem content with blaming people in NOLA for not doing more to get themselves out of the mess they find themselves in.  Some of that came from the thread on site where I found the article.  I didn't include that thread because it incited rage in me and I didn't want to place that rage on to others.


"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~
Sunshine
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9 posted 05-29-2008 11:50 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

quote:
Kari and Mike? The kindnesses you've both extended to me will never be forgotten. I still try to "pay it forward", even if it's futility. Even if it's just sneaking a bag lunch and a book down to the guy who lives under the bridge and hangs out at the convenience store.

That's what I'm talking about, Serenity. It's people helping other people as best they can. Waiting on the government to come in to help doesn't kick the can. People do.

I've realized from the outset of LA and other disasters in the last few years that we can't wait on the government to step in. People have to take it on - at the very expense to their health that you've set out for us to read, serenity, so this wasn't a simple "going back to the basics" statement as has apparently been perceived by others - so that's my fault.

But it IS getting back to the basics of being self-sufficient - even if it means taking some sheet metal and hammering out one's own roof.

And I'm the first one to realize that not everyone has the skills to be self-sufficient. Heck, without a computer and electricity, anyone under the age of 40 would probably be out in left field, wandering around in a circle, no better off, really, than the first cave dwellers.

And yes, ma'am, serene one...I do indeed plan to come and see you as soon as I can.


serenity blaze
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10 posted 05-29-2008 12:51 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Cave-dwelling is starting to sound just fine to me.



Waiting on the government?

That's be funny if we didn't have the tragic proof of five days of coverage on CNN about how futile that can be...

It's changed me forever yanno. I am angry. I am more than angry. But without the incredible outpouring of kindness from people, I'd be...oooh, I don't wanna think about how I'd be.

I mean, my mood ain't purty now.

There's good stories and there's bad stories.

Mike knows that we ran out of gas in a certain city. I confided to only a few was that if my family were of a different color? The officials would have been very helpful. They were giving out free gas vouchers to people of a certain race.

I didn't find this out until later, when I'd heard of these free gas vouchers. I asked the guy:

"Why weren't we given one?"

"You're white, ain't ya?"

sigh

One day I really have to write the whole story...
serenity blaze
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11 posted 05-29-2008 12:54 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

excuse the typos...

my kids are up and typing apparently.

*shrug*

I'm getting a bit better though.

The seroquel that they gave everybody after the storm? Well just google it.

And I thought I'd done some bad ass drugs in my time...shaking my head.

TREACHEROUS stuff.
serenity blaze
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12 posted 05-29-2008 03:49 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I got off topic.

I do that alot concerning this subject, just because there's so much to cover.

But here's why EVERYBODY should be outraged.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/19/katrina/main3075743.shtml


As for the people of New Orleans helping themselves, well, New Orleans flooded because of levee failure, as admitted by the Army Corps of Engineers:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2006/06/02/us-corps-takes-blame-for-new-orleans-levee-failure.htm

and for the people who don't give a damn about New Orleans, maybe you should be concerned wherever you live, because apparently, it ain't just New Orleans:
http://cee.engr.ucdavis.edu/faculty/boulanger/geo_photo_album/Erosion%20and%20piping/Delta%20levee%20failure/Delta%20levee%20failure%20-%20Main.html

Now, I thought paying taxes was part of a communal effort of the United States to protect ourselves.

This furthers my point made in another thread that money being spent on the war in Iraq might be better spent, helping OURSELVES.

I also find it incredible that you can find these trailers for sale at government auctions.

So yes, Kari, I agree with the warm-hearted stuff about people helping one another, but we also need to keep our government watchdogs encouraged.

Criticism of government failures is NOT unpatriotic.

It is the ultimate act of patriotism to speak out against such atrocities.

Susan?

Thank you lovie, for being you.

I do love you!


Midnitesun
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13 posted 05-29-2008 03:51 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

"The rest of us are trying to hold our lives together and it's like trying to sew seaweed..."
That about sums it up for me, lady.

There are is so much to talk about
but mere talk  
   is just a waste of time
while people are starving
or dying from diseases
they had no 'choice'
in accepting or rejecting.
Sunshine
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14 posted 05-29-2008 04:35 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

quote:
but we also need to keep our government watchdogs encouraged.

And I agree with you on this, serenity...
as I know quite a number of watchdogs.

My disheartenment is that for all we watch,
nothing seems to get done at all.

And here I sit, wishing I could help everyone.


Balladeer
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15 posted 05-29-2008 08:39 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Criticism of government failures is NOT unpatriotic.

I agree completely. Thank you for the links, Karen. After having read the first one I fond myself in agreement with the point Susan is making.

It does pose an interesting question, though. In a perfect world, all of the trailers would have initially been manufactured with acceptable limits of formaldehyde. They weren't.

In a choice whether to use them or not, would it have been better not to use them at all, with thousands upon thousands of people homeless and on the streets? I ask that sincerely and, if you say yes, I won't disagree. Which choice would be worse?

I still remember the asbestos panic after finding out that it was a no-no which could cause health problems. There was a huge rush to get it out of the schools, hospitals, out of every home in America. That's fine and the right decision but also we had lived with that same asbestos for decades without any massive keeling over of the public I can remember.

The doctors in the article state they cannot conclusively tie the sickness to the trailers but let's assume that it was the cause, anyway. How many people were affected? What percentage? Is that percentage high enough to offset the good they did for thousands of others with no place to live? You can say just one child sick from it is too many and I won't disagree with that, either, but I don't know that the hundred twenty thousand who didn't have problems and had a place to live will agree.

None of this gives the government a pass. The trailers should have been inspected before use....period. But they weren't. So should they have been used or not?
Susan Caldwell
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16 posted 05-29-2008 11:06 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

They were inspected and they knew.

Now, let me ask this, if it had been Washington DC instead of NOLA, would the trailers have been used?

"we" are still pulling ABS out of buildings. Why?  Because "encapsulating" was the easier answer and sometimes still is.

We don't really know what it causes.  There is a huge rise in Autism, maybe ABS was the cause. Who really knows, especially when it comes to long term issues.  

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

serenity blaze
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17 posted 05-29-2008 11:07 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

On another site, a soldier said he thought it should have been set up like a military camp. Start out with tents, and every able body contributes to building sturdier shelters. He described pretty much like I imagine a M*A*S*H unit would be set up. I know little about these things, but I think that would have worked very well in Gulfport.

In New Orleans, I just shake my head.

Nagin got re-elected by out of town residents, and he made empty promises of bringing people back with absolutely no plan. I think my disgust for the man far outweighs yours, and just might be equal to that of Chris Rose. Nagin's little "joke" about giving the homeless a bus ticket? That was infuriating, but it IS something I suggest to my personal friends who are having harder times than I. (Do you know that they moved tent people around when there would National attention? There was a tent camp right across city hall. So they gave them better tents and blankets and a ride, to some place off-camera.)

I HATE Nagin. (Can ya tell?)

Some of the public housing might have been re-utilized. I know a lot of other folks with homes managed to live in theirs while they rebuilt. (That possibility is what caused a near-riot at City Hall if you recall.)

I do fault New Orleans for not coming up with a better plan. But I'm glad we agree that toxic housing should never have been a part of it.

I'm nodding with much sadness, because a friend of mine just phoned this evening. She's homeless again. But unfortunately, she has a bad habit and I have a no-tolerance rule about crack addicts.

I, too, draw the line in places.

New Orleans needs more places such as "Pathways"--a facility that helps people help themselves. They are a sort of "halfway" house for people with disabilities and drug problems. So---um, don't go thinking that "L" word.   The place works and I know it does, because we happen to have tenants that "graduated" from there. (We keep the rent pretty much to where it just pays the taxes and insurance.) sigh...I miss my old house too. But I want to be one of the people who do the right thing--because the right thing was done by me.

So there's a no-crack policy there as well.

Karen draws the line too. Sometimes with a .38.

Seriously, do you understand how it hurt my heart to tell my friend "no"--I have known her since second grade. But I am not a rehabilitation facility--but we do need them. I had to rethink my no tolerance policy a few months ago, when the son of a friend of ours was shot while he was high, and stupidly tried to car-jack someone. They had been trying to get help for him for months. He had written a letter to Jesus begging for help. He had just turned 18. Just a kid who got caught up in the dark creepies that we're fighting in New Orleans. (I came back to explain--"dark creepies" is a term coined by the columnist Chris Rose, who wrote publically of his own nervous breakdown. It's just a term for...bad thoughts.)

I didn't know what to say to his parents either...

I've said it before though--there are better minds than mine that we should be able to count on--I'm not a public servant.

But if I find that plan that the soldier had drawn out, I'll post it.

I thought it was interesting.

A temporary tent city that would utilize those poor people in shock and give them a sense of self-respect and just...doing something.

Our own home wasn't exactly comfortable for a few months either. And there's STILL a crack in my damned ceiling. (But I'm not getting on you about that, but I mean, c'mon....)

But seriously--the people of New Orleans do need more help resources.

Whether by drug-related violence, suicide from depression, or chronic illness that is going untreated--we are dying.

I wish I could remember where I heard the stat--but I think our friends in Mississippi just beat us out for having the most people with untreated illnesses. That used to be our honor. Do I blame it on Katrina?

I lost five doctors. Five. One walked out in the middle of the day.

So yes, I think that Katrina-related issues ought to be a priority in this upcoming political race. It's just something simple that my Dad taught me--take care of what you can--apologize if there was something you could have done and didn't--and figure out how to handle things better for the next time.

I'll go look for that guy's suggestions. It wasn't exactly fine living quarters, but it made sense to me. I stayed here in this house alone sans electricity while under Martial Law. It was hot, uncomfortable and scary.

But I was home.   And I made damned sure everybody knew it.  

serenity blaze
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18 posted 05-29-2008 11:13 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Forgive the incoherence of the above post.

I do have one helluva story to tell one day.

I just get pretty passionate about it, so the logic isn't quite there.

Hope you all forgive me and understand.

Balladeer
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19 posted 05-29-2008 11:48 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Karen, if you don't have the right to be passionate about it, NOBODY does!

The tents sound like a good idea. Of course, there would have been complaints about that, too, but there wouldn't have been dangerous chemicals around.

Susan, you ignored all of my questions and instead answered with a question of your own. My questions weren't loaded. They weren't asked to prove a point of mine. They were sincere questions that I had hoped to get your input on. Would they have done the same in DC? I have no way of knowing.
Susan Caldwell
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20 posted 05-30-2008 08:00 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Michael,

"Susan, you ignored all of my questions and instead answered with a question of your own."
This wasn't a malicious act on my part. I actually thought I answered all your questions with my statement but again maybe I was being a bit obscure and will answer them now.  


Your first questions was:
"In a choice whether to use them or not, would it have been better not to use them at all, with thousands upon thousands of people homeless and on the streets? I ask that sincerely and, if you say yes, I won't disagree. Which choice would be worse?"

My answer:  Is that my only choice?  In this country, my choice is living in trailers that will make my children sick and possible kill them or being homeless?  No.  In real life I would have chosen the trailers if I had no where else to go.  Telling myself that maybe it wouldn't happen to me or my children and when it did happen, hating myself and doing harm to myself after I had taken care of my now dead child. But apparently me and my fictional family are expendable.

Next question:  How many people were affected? What percentage? Is that percentage high enough to offset the good they did for thousands of others with no place to live?

I don't know the percentages right off and could probably look them up.  I dare say they wouldn't matter so much to you if it were YOU and your family sick and dying from something the government gave you and implied to you was safe.  And that implication is there whether it's said or not.  But if thousands got a place to stay, regardless of the fact that it was probably going to kill their children later, and only a few thousand children die, it was a balanced decision, right?  I disagree.  

Next: So should they have been used or not?

I contend there should have been a better way and probably was.  We have some very smart people in this country.  We have a strong country with money.  There was a better way. I personally don't have the answer, but when I don't, I brainstorm with others and find that answer.  And it isn't a temporary fix that will cause harm at a later date.  



"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~
Balladeer
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21 posted 05-30-2008 09:46 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

But if thousands got a place to stay, regardless of the fact that it was probably going to kill their children later, and only a few thousand children die, it was a balanced decision, right?

So now death of a few thousand children is probable?

The ones that may have had family that took them in and was able to afford to help them find a new start outside of NOLA. The ones that didnít lose all hope and maybe even their sanity when they lost everything they had worked their entire lives for and/or on top of all that lost their family members as well.

So now anyone who had to live in the trailers have lost hope, eventual sanity, everything they have worked for, and the death of their families?

my choice is living in trailers that will make my children sick and possible kill them or being homeless?

So now the trailers WILL make your children sick and possibly kill them?

I don't know the percentages right off and could probably look them up.

and where would you look them up since whatever maladies occur may be somewhere in the distant future, as you suggest Who really knows, especially when it comes to long term issues.   Look them up, please.

I contend there should have been a better way and probably was.

Should and probably doesn't do much to strengther your statements. The levess broke. The hurricane hit. Over a hundred thousand people were instantly homeless. The government acted, without taking the time to sit around in groups and brainstorm.

Susan, don't misunderstand. I don't disagree with you that the trailers should have been safe before sending them and I can get just as incensed about any child becoming sick because of it. Your comments, though, have gone overboard. To make the statements now that thousands of children will die from it, anyone who lived in the trailers will lose everything they have worked for all their lives including their lives, all of the children WILL become sick and possibly die has eliminated the sincere side of the topic and gone into more of a continued rant that your title suggested it would be.

...and you have that right...so rant on and I will discontinue trying to discuss it in more factual terms.

Susan Caldwell
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since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


22 posted 05-30-2008 10:53 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Michael,

Must I really watch each and every word I use so that it doesn't give you a viable reason to try to discredit what I say?  And why would you do that to others when you yourself speak in similar terms and labels?  Are your labels and terms better simply because they are yours?  Then after all your implications that I am "overboard" and "ranting" you say you will not say anymore.  Well, I guess you made your point and put your foot down.  

BTW~ The term "will" that I used was used in the respect of the ones that will die (as in in the future anyone that does die) not as in there will most certainly be deaths from this.  

Since you quoted the statement I made that had the word "will" in it, here are the ones you missed:

"In the meantime itís projected that 10-15 years from now those same children will probably be suffering from some form of cancer and most probably dying from it."
I donít mean that as all encompassing.
"The ones that didnít lose all hope and maybe even their sanity when they lost everything they had worked their entire lives for and/or on top of all that lost their family members as well."  

~ you quoted this by saying: "So now anyone who had to live in the trailers have lost hope, eventual sanity, everything they have worked for, and the death of their families?"
I did not say the ones that lived in the trailers were the ones that had lost hope, and MAYBE even their sanityÖÖÖbut was referring to the vicims of KatrinaÖ

can I ask why you choose to take some things out of context by leaving out the word maybe?

Now this just really confuses someone of my apparent ignorance:

"Should and probably doesn't do much to strengther your statements"  That's what you said.  Right after you said: "So now the trailers WILL make your children sick and possibly kill them?"

"will" is too emcompassing and "should" and "probably" doesn't strengthen my statements.  *sigh* I guess I just fail all the way around.

I am willing to bet that if I had said everything that was in agreement with you, Michael, you wouldn't be trying so hard to discredit my opinions or statements.  

As for the answers to the trailersÖ.IN MY OPINION, MAYBE, a better answer would have been to use the trailers for a very short time until the brainstroming people came up with a better solution.  Yes, I know, but it MIGHT have helped.  

This is from the article I linked:

Doctors cannot conclusively link her asthma to the trailer. But they fear she is among tens of thousands of youngsters who may face lifelong health problems because the temporary housing supplied by the Federal Emergency Management Agency contained formaldehyde fumes up to five times the safe level.

The chemical, used in interior glue, was detected in many of the 143,000 trailers sent to the Gulf Coast in 2006.
But a push to get residents out of them, spearheaded by FEMA and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, did not begin until this past February.
Members of Congress and CDC insiders say the agencies' delay in recognizing the danger is being compounded by studies that will be virtually useless and the lack of a plan to treat children as they grow.
"It's tragic that when people most need the protection, they are actually going from one disaster to a health disaster that might be considered worse," said Christopher De Rosa, assistant director for toxicology and risk assessment at the federal Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, an arm of the CDC. "Given the longer-term implications of exposure that went on for a significant period of time, people should be followed through time for possible effects."
Formaldehyde is classified as a probable carcinogen, or cancer-causing substance, by the Environmental Protection Agency. There is no way to measure formaldelhyde in the bloodstream. Respiratory problems are an early sign of exposure.
Young children are at particular risk. Thousands who lived in trailers will be in the prime of life in the 10 to 15 years doctors believe it takes cancer to develop.

From one of the links Karen provided:

CBS News has learned that health concerns in FEMA trailers could reach well beyond serious respiratory problems; several deaths may linked to toxic levels of formaldehyde gas, reports Keteyian.

Earl Shorty, a resident of Louisiana, moved into a FEMA travel trailer in one compound with his wife, Desiree, about a year ago.

"Within four months after we moved in here, she just started coughing and she would get weak," Shorty told Keteyian.

Earl says his wife didn't smoke and that every time she left the trailer the coughing would stop. Eventually, she became too weak to go out. On July 2, she took her last breath at a local hospital.

"She was just looking at me and she said, 'Babe, I'm scared,'" said Shorty. "That's the last thing I remember her telling me, that she was scared."

Formaldehyde, sometimes found in building materials used in manufactured homes, can cause respiratory problems and possibly cancer in high doses. FEMA provided more than 120,000 trailers to victims of the 2005 hurricanes Katrina and Rita, and many thousands of people still occupy them, especially in Louisiana, Mississippi and Arkansas.

And more:

Last year, the Sierra Club tested 31 travel trailers in Mississippi and found that virtually all ó 94 percent ó had levels of formaldehyde above that limit.

CBS News discovered an internal FEMA document that cites cancer as a potential job hazard for those just inspecting the trailers.

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 11-03-1999
Posts 4427
Oklahoma, USA


23 posted 05-30-2008 09:38 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

Susan, it is truly tragic that people are getting sick from FEMA's attempts to help. Yes, formaldehyde is universally accepted as dangerous and it is used extensively in glued building materials. I believe though that it does disipate rather quickly at least to the point of not being particularly dangerous. That said, I don't mean to discount your concerns at all since I really have no direct knowledge of the facts. I'll let you and Mike argue that, if that's what you are doing. (He'll probably be back).

What I do have to question though is any "internal documents discovered by CBS." After all, they are notorious for "discovering" internal documents that turn out to be forgeries. Their credibility simply does not pass the smell test.

Oh, I also should say, I really like your new picture.

serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


24 posted 05-30-2008 10:13 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

If you are going to pick on the source, pick on the one who quoted it and leave Susan the hell alone.

Susan's rage is justified and I'm not saying that just because I am a WITNESS to what happened, but her rage is justified because she has the facts--the facts before they are filtered down through a "news" agency to fit with someone's agenda.

If y'wanna give it to someone on the chin, Pete? Right here.

Take a good swing too, because if I don't go down there's hell to pay. I'm used to nosebleeds, too. Earbleeds as well.

THEY WERE A DAILY OCCURENCE in 2006 in the Metro New Orleans area.

*shaking my head*

what is the matter with you people?
 
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