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Passions in Poetry

Obama

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Bob K
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25 posted 03-13-2008 07:44 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

Dear Balladeer,

           Tax Hikes?

             Somebody's got to pay the Mastercard Bill for the last seven years.  I think you may be a little bit upset because you believed them when they told you the Mastercard bill would pay itself if they gave it a fancy name, like trickledown economics.

     Now who are you going to believe, that sweet sweet Republican  economic jive talk or your lying eyes?
Huan Yi
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26 posted 03-13-2008 09:17 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


“Nazis are part of the right wing of the political spectrum”

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZGRhYzUyY2QyMDVmMTc1ZDY0Y2ZlNjE1ZThlMzU3M2E=


.
Bob K
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27 posted 03-20-2008 03:37 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

Dear Huan Yi,

The New Oxford American Dictionary tells us that fascism may also be spelled with a capital F, it is a noun, and that it is "an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization."

     "(in general use) extreme right wing, authoritarian or intolerant views or practice."

It defines Nazi as a noun as, historically, "a member of The National Socialist German Workers Party"

     "A member of an organization with a similar ideology."

     "[derogatory] a person who holds and acts brutally in accordance with extreme racist or authoritarian views."

     I believe my use of the concept Nazi and my identification of it as extreme right wing are correct.  The article you reference is from a journal with a solidly right wing bias.

     Neither the Nazis nor the Communists could stand each other during the Weimar Republic.  They had riots in which they killed each other in the streets and despised each other's politics, according to William Shirer in The Rise and Fall of The Third Reich.

     I'm was told when I was a kid by so old lefties that the single thing that did the most damage to the American Communist Party, which was apparently doing fairly well until that point, was the Hitler-Stalin non-aggression pact.  In the space of a single week, the party position in the United States was supposed to make a complete turnaround, a 180, from saying that the U.S. Should immediately intervene on behalf of the British and the Poles to saying, let the Europeans solve European problems.  The U.S. should stay out of it.

     The reconciliation with the fascists was more than the U.S. party could stomach. Or at least an awful lot of them.

     Should you care to, you might look up "liberal" yourself.

     My opinion is that part of the pickle we are in has to do with a war on language.  I am conscious of this as a series of attacks by the right wing on the left wing directed not at the issues but at the language of the party.  "Liberal" has become "The 'L' word" in partisan discussions.  "The Democratic Party" has become "The Democrat Party."

     I'm not aware of language going the other way, but there may well be.  I'd be interested in hearing about it.  I think it damages the political process by stirring up deep levels of rage.  I for one have never believed that old saw about words never hurting.  It sure doesn't fit my experience.

     Anyway, thoughts?  I'll be out of town for a while, so I won't be able to respond for a while, probably, but I am interested.  Best, BobK.


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28 posted 03-20-2008 04:20 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Must be my lying eyes, Bob. I don't know how many times I've told those suckers to stop lying but....bam! There they go again, lying like banshees. I just don't know what to do.

Oh, I know. I'll tell them that whatever you say is the truth and anything else they might see is a lie. That should solve the problem, ok?

I must be upset? You know much less about me than you think...but let the suppositions continue, if you like.
Bob K
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29 posted 04-03-2008 08:14 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

Dear Balladeer,

           I hate being misrepresented myself.  I don't like misrepresenting you.  If that's what you see me as doing,first let me say I'm sorry, and then let me ask you to tell me what I've gotten wrong.  

     I thought you were saying that the democrats would raise taxes and that was wrong.  And I thought my response was that somebody had to take responsibility for the give-away of enormous proportions over the last eight years.  And that when you run up debts, you have to pay them off somehow.

     The republicans have been saying this is all one big stimulus package.  They've given breaks to their friends who, instead of keeping the money at home and using it as predicted by the republican economists as a trickle down economy booster, have taken it overseas, to China and the middle east.

     The democrats are not blameless from my point of view, Mike.  I think they should have set limits and blocked as much of the giveaway stuff as they could have; they were pretty spineless.

     I don't want to put your views incorrectly or shade them badly.  It's bad writing, and it's bad friendship.  Fill me in, please.  Bob k.
Jaime Fradera
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30 posted 04-28-2008 07:45 PM       View Profile for Jaime Fradera   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jaime Fradera

I should explain, belatedly, that this post is a take off on a Disney Cartoon, Der Feurer's face, which meant to caricature the Nazi movement Circa 1943.
My post is a way of caricaturing the low level of political discourse, hyperbole and demagoguery that has typified the behavior of certain politicians who tell us we are victims and then promise that they have the answers and will give us anything we want.
Just listen to the Rev Wright and tell me his church services don't sound like giant Nazi rallies in Nuremberg, complete with blatant racist incitement against the 21st century equivalent of the Jews, "rich WHITE PEOPLE.
In my opinion, Obama, who I'm sure privately thinks he lives in the U S of kka, will never be able to rectify the colossal political mistake he has made by just casting himself as our misleader and wanna be tyrant.
Where are Jack Kennedy, Scoop Jackson and Adlai Stevenson when we need them?
Southern Cross

Jaime Fradera
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31 posted 04-28-2008 07:57 PM       View Profile for Jaime Fradera   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jaime Fradera

O, and I forgot.
of course it is in bad taste.  Satire often is, especially to those being satirized.

Huan Yi
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32 posted 06-02-2008 05:35 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/CartoonPopUp.aspx?id=254432863424008


.
JenniferMaxwell
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33 posted 08-23-2008 06:32 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P_iP9u_3co


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34 posted 08-23-2008 10:23 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Also, just curious, do you think if I posted a Bush basher comparing him to Hitler and his administration to the Third Reich, would anyone voice a complaint or would they proudly defend my right to express my off the wall and over the top opinion?

Sure, there would be complaints, basically from Republicans, just as in this thread, the complaints come from Democrats. Case in point, there was not one Democrat speaking against Michael Moore's pack of lies or his sleaziness. The innuendos and "pack of lies",btw, are well-documented but, since it served Democrat interests, Moore was applauded, hugged by the bean farmer and given a seat of honor at the Democrat convention. Seen anything of Moore since the last election. Even the Democrats stopped holding their noses and moved to a safe distance from him. What DO the Democrats complain about? Oh, yes, the OBAMA NATION book. Noe THAT to them is a pack of lies and innuendos that they are screaming at the top of their lungs about. Ya gotta laugh

Noah, Obama's election "might be crazy enough to work"? Could be....do you want to take that chance in today's world? Your choice.

BobK, yes, trickle down economics is such a ridiculous title, isn't it? I mean, the whole concept of money flowing from the top down through the other levels would never work, i suppose. Think of that the next time when you buy a loaf of bread, parts of your money going to the bakers, the store employees, the cashiers, the bagboys, the designers of the label, etc, etc, etc.....Even JFK suffered under the delusion that it was a valid and practical way to go....but what did he know?

At any rate, at least the Democrats are targeting what's important in this country....McCain doesn't know how many houses he owns. Perhaps they should check with John Kerry, who also has a very rich wife. Think he knows what holdings HE has?
The party of Kerry, Gore, Kennedy, Edwards and dozens of other multi-multi-millionaires want to portray McCain as an elitist who can't relate to the common man like they can. Good grief!!!
Anyway, now that Obama has selected his VP, he has shown just how much he is an agent for  change or, as the Associated Press writes..

DENVER - The candidate of change went with the status quo.

In picking Sen. Joe Biden to be his running mate, Barack Obama sought to shore up his weakness — inexperience in office and on foreign policy — rather than underscore his strength as a new-generation candidate defying political conventions.

He picked a 35-year veteran of the Senate — the ultimate insider — rather than a candidate from outside Washington, such as Govs. Tim Kaine of Virginia or Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas; or from outside his party, such as Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska; or from outside the mostly white male club of vice presidential candidates. Hillary Rodham Clinton didn't even make his short list.


So much for the changemeister....

End of Saturday morning rant.
JenniferMaxwell
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35 posted 08-23-2008 10:36 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

Surely you can do better than that, Balladeer, no biting edge, no sting at all.  

My fairy godmother finally came through.
Obama/Biden - my dream team ticket from the very beginning, though not necessarily in that order.

It's a good day!  

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36 posted 08-23-2008 01:38 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

hehe...the new me. No bite, no sting, no response to goading...just good plain sense on display

Your dream ticket? Remember, nightmares are just dreams on steroids! Sleep well
JenniferMaxwell
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37 posted 08-23-2008 03:13 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell


Time to come out of your basement, Balladeer, the real nightmare will soon be over when Bush packs up the pig farm, slips off to a high rise in Dubai or a brush ranch in Paraguay and Cheney hunkers down in sealed bunker at an undisclosed location with a speed dial connection to Carlyle and Halliburton on his teleporter.

Grinch
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38 posted 08-23-2008 05:01 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


I think he’s made a good choice.

quote:
So much for the changemeister.…


Think about it Mike, He picked a 35-year veteran of the Senate — the ultimate insider - and changed him into his right hand man. He’s gained a powerful ally and removed a potential future thorn in his side all in one move, score one for the changemeister.

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39 posted 08-23-2008 06:59 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

You think Obama has changed Biden, Grinch??? I've still got that swampland down here for sale, if you're interested.

It's one of those old "I've got you right where you want me" scenarios. Biden's not doing it for Obama. He's doing it for Biden.He's already stated on numerous occasions that Obama is not ready or qualified enough for the position.

Interesting...it's very similar to the initial Bush-Cheney ticket. Many people voted for Bush, confident in the fact that the qualified and intelligent Cheney would be there being the power behind the throne. Well, we all know how that worked out. I think many Democrats will be thinking the same...Obama the charismatic unqualified candidate with the veteran Biden alongside to assist when cue cards are not available and make the decisions that need to be made.

Should be interesting.....
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40 posted 08-23-2008 07:02 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Jennifer, what a complete misrepresentation! You know as well as anyone that there are no basements in Florida!!!
JenniferMaxwell
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41 posted 08-23-2008 08:16 PM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

My mistake, Balladeer, forgot you were in Florida. I should have said pull your head out of the swampland of Bush apologists. Surely you can do better than those inane, littlegreenfootball, right-wing talking points?

To put it simply, one can either vote for Obama/Biden, or the Bush Hugger, MoreOfTheSame McCain - more wars, more torture, more killing, more of our money in big oil’s pockets, more of our troops coming home in body bags, more debt, more cronyism, more failed foreign policy, more of our freedoms and rights down the tube, more losing their jobs, their homes, while more no bid contracts keep on filling Bush and Cheney’s Carlyle/Haliburton coffers. And to top it off, a vote for McCain means a vote for a hot tempered, loose cannon, senior moment sufferer with his finger on the Armageddon button.

For those who still don’t get it, let me spell it out, McCain’s sold his soul to the Bush Cabal in return for financing his campaign. Cheney and the PNAC will still be pulling the strings, but on new Presidential Puppet, MoreOfTheSame McCain.

Obama/Biden, a cool drink of water after eight years of drought.

Grinch
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42 posted 08-23-2008 09:05 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
You think Obama has changed Biden, Grinch???


No Mike, I’m not that stupid, I think being VP will change Biden.

One change we’ve already seen though is Bidens views on whether Obama is ready to be President, in 2007 Biden said:

“'I think he can be ready but right now, I don't believe he is.”

In 2008 it seems things have changed enough for him to recognise that Obama is now ready.

Bob K
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43 posted 08-23-2008 09:49 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



Dear Balladeer,

          You've got "moderator" listed after your name here, Balladeer;  I'm not sure I understand entirely.  Is the title honorary?  If so, you certainly do deserve it.  You've had lots of experience with this sort of thing.  If it actually signifies some sort of role in the discussion, though, I'd be interested in knowing what that role would be, because you're being pretty partisan, and I'm not used to thinking of actual moderators as functioning that way.  I am curious, so I know how to deal with your comments in a more appropriate way.  Deference is never too far out of place, of course.

     I was interested in your comment about the Bush Cheney ticket, and how we all know how that turned out.  If in fact you share some of the upset and disillusionment that the rest of us have shared with that particular ticket over the past eight years, I do find it refreshing that you've come to a point where you feel free enough to say so.  I feel they've done as much damage to the Republican party as they have to the country as a whole, which seems a sad thing to say for a Democrat, but I feel that we do need a strong two party system.

     I liked Biden as a potential Presidential candidate previously over Obama because of his experience and his straightforwardness, but I feel that Obama will do.  He got into Harvard Law without mention of race on his application, though mention of race might have helped his chances.  He turned down offers from  New York law practices and went back to Chicago and did community organizing.  To me that counts for a lot.  It's about time that the nasty biographies and the slurs started circulating, and, as you pointed out, everybody gets particularly incensed at the more annoying stuff circulated by their opponents.  Usually the upset is for good reason:  Either somebody's struck pay-dirt or somebody's come up with something so disgusting that it makes everybody gag and occasionally, both.  We could trade stories sometime, if you'd like, but I suspect all that would happen is that we'd both end up feeling justifiably upset.  Who needs that.

     The two of us did speak on one occasion about trickle down economics.  I enjoy your comments about JFK believing in them.  The part of that I understand to be true is that he believed in giving tax cuts to the upper brackets.  If you in fact mean other than this, you're going to have to say so, so I can address that issue separately.

     The last time I spoke to you about this issue I quoted to you the articles from the Economist, a well researched right of center English journal of world affairs, news and business with a research bureau as well thought of as the Jane's Defense folks and other sources pointing out the fallacy of this thinking.  Upper tax bracket taxes in Kennedy's time ran to 90%, and therefor the tax cuts would (and did) more than pay for themselves.  Tax cuts for the upper tax brackets result in a long term pay back rate of about 70% on the Laffer curve.  This means that we lose 30% of every dollar cut in high end tax relief at this point in time.  If you want to go back through the old posts, that article and others are referenced for your information pleasure.  If you check out the Wikipedia article on trickle down economics, you will see that a fair number of Republicans are denying that Reagan or Bush senior or many other Republican figures (including David Stockman) ever believed in or backed "trickle down Economics."    The current administration is, I believe, behind it 100%.  The country looses 30% on the dollar, but their pals gain it; what's not for them to like.  And apparently there's an audience they can sell it to as well.

     Let's not forget, in an effort to be fair, that Clinton helped pass a 2.6% tax cut for the upper bracket as well.

     Balladeer, you mentioned something about "the bean farmer."  The reference escapes me, though I assume it's some slur on a democrat.  Which Democrat are you slurring without provocation this time?  I say so because I'm not aware of any Democratic bean farmers offering up personal insults to you, but perhaps I am uninformed.  If so, I'm sorry for thinking that you'd consider doing such a thing.

     I'll trying writing again.  It's good seeing you in the thread, acerbic yet lovable as ever.

All my best, Bob Kaven
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44 posted 08-23-2008 11:07 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Jennifer, only you could accuse me of using talking points and then use every democrat talking point under the sun in your reference to Bush....good grief! Did you do that all in one breath or did you have to stop for oxygen somewhere between torture and annihilation of personal rights????

Bob, my reference to the bean farmer was, of course, the one and only Jimmy Carter. Yes, when he hugged Michael Moore and sat him at the VIP table, he insulted me and millions of  other decent Americans.

With reference to the moniker of moderator, here at Passions there are moderators for each forum. If you look at the top of the thread you will see the names of the moderators of the Alley. I am the moderator for the Open Forum, where I am a fair and impartial upholder of the rules of the forum. Here in the Alley I'm just a civilian, unshackled by the moderator's duties and able to express my personal views, just like anyone else. If I am out of line, like anyone else, I will be properly chastised and warned, as I have been in the past by that evil Alleycat. Hopefully, that will straighten out the confusion.
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45 posted 08-23-2008 11:53 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

If in fact you share some of the upset and disillusionment that the rest of us have shared with that particular ticket over the past eight years, I do find it refreshing that you've come to a point where you feel free enough to say so.

Bob, I'm afraid you have missed several of my posts. I have been at odds with Bush on more than one issue, from stem cell research to immigration. Cheney? I have no idea what happened there. I, like many, many others, held Cheney in great respect with a sterling record and as a man of obvious high intelligence. As vice-president, he became basically non-existant, don't ask me why. I doubt seriously that Bush told him to go sit in the corner because Cheney was not the kind of man who would have accepted that. He just.....disappeared.

Do I share some of the disillusionment with you and the democrats? Yes, but for different reasons. I don't think he has been an extremely good president with regard to national endeavors. I am at odds with several of his policies and he has spent too much money. Having said that - and the difference between me and you and your many friends - I feel he will be remembered as one of our best presidents for the simple fact of what he has done in the Middle East, his war on terror policies, and his surveillance policies, which you despise and which I feel has been instrumental in maintaining our safety. Terrorist groups around the world are running and hiding based on what he initiated and which other countries have adapted. He stood up to the do-nothing, corrupt organization called the UN, which no one else has ever had the guts to do. He put his political future on the line early in his first term because he felt that the actions necessary were more important. I don't see  a Kerry or a Gore doing that and I thank God that Bush was in the Oval Office after 9-11, and not someone like Clinton, who did nothing after the first WTC bombing.You may agree or disagree, but neither one of us will change the other's feelings on this, I know, and that's ok, too.

I also believe that the democrats' actions during his term have been despicable, unequalled in American history, and, if I were a democrat, I would be as equally ashamed of them. I also find it interesting that, when there is a Democrat president and a Republican congress, any blame for country woes goes to congress and when the is a republican president and a Democrat congress, the blame goes to the president. Interesting how that works, especially now, at a time we are cursed with the worst congress in history, especially after this last debacle of Pelosi closing the foors, turning out the lights and kicking out the news media to go on vacation at a time a vote was due on an energy bill she knew would pass that she was against. Well, I hope she is enjoying her vacation. I can assure you, should you care to admit it or not, I think you would acknowledge that if a Republican congress did that, the Demcrats would be having caniption fits over it and the headlines would be filled with the "evil" republicans who sneaked away while the country was suffering....but we are used to that.

As a rule, republicans seem to feel that the country is strong and in decent shape and democrats seem to feel that the country is wrecked and falling apart. I also feel that, should a democrat win the presidency, the country will once again be strong and in decent shape to the democrats. Wanna bet? I'll even give you odds....

[This message has been edited by Balladeer (08-24-2008 12:03 AM).]

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46 posted 08-24-2008 05:00 AM       View Profile for JenniferMaxwell   Email JenniferMaxwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JenniferMaxwell

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/X/e/1/mccain_bush_brokeback.jpg
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47 posted 08-24-2008 10:04 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Huan Yi
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48 posted 08-24-2008 04:40 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Mike,

I believe
when you think about it
you’ll appreciate that whoever it was
pulled off a very intelligent
if not brilliant maneuver.

With Biden on the ticket
Obama becomes the affirmative action token
which guarantees the old guard
a certain large percentage of the votes.

Obama’s lack of qualification
or experience no longer matters.

Nobody need concern themselves
that if elected Obama would actually
be running the government.


John

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49 posted 08-24-2008 07:07 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Yes, exactly what I pointed out in response #40 of this thread, John.
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