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Use of Torture Report on United States

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Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


0 posted 02-12-2008 09:49 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

     I found a link to two Amnesty USA reports.  I'm having trouble getting their web site to recall these articles, but I've given the links below on the chance that you'll be able to do better than I can.  I did not like the information I found for many reasons.  I won't try to pretend there's anybody out there who's actually in favor of serious political torture and I won't try to cram anybody into that mold.  I figure that most everybody thinks it's to be used as a potential life-saving last resort or some such.  


     Having gotten no place with the above, which I've erased, I'm going to try the following:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=ENGAMR510122008&lang=e


     The American branch of Amnesty has to my mind gotten too mixed up with American internal politics.  The power of the organization I believe used to come from having a mountain of letters from everyplace else in the world but your own country land in the laps of your country's government, letting them know that that world was watching.  Amnesty in America, these days, has let itself be seduced into sounding like any other critical voice, and has, I'm afraid, lost much of its authority in that way.

      It should not be this way.  Prisoners of Conscience and victims of oppression have traditionally been concerns of Americans, left and right.  Many of the most vocal supporters of the conventions against torture have been military, and folks of conscience on the right.  These are traditional conservative values as well as liberal values:  They are overarching American values.

     I'm not going to ask folks who support my values alone to write to their representatives.  I would like them to, of course.  But if people having other points of view have things to say, much as it pains me, they should probably be aired as well.  Actually, I want them to.  And I'd like to know what everybody thinks about this stuff in general.  To be clear in starting off, I'm against torture for any reason.  I believe it's simply a bad thing.  I think we've prosecuted people for it in the past with excellent reasons and that morality hasn't undergone a hundred and eighty degree shift since then.  I'd love to hear comments.

     I call your attention to the interesting bibliography of articles with links at the foot of the article I've at last gotten hooked up here.

[This message has been edited by Bob K (02-12-2008 10:49 PM).]

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


1 posted 02-17-2008 01:39 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"serious political torture"

?

As far as waterboarding is concerned
I think the response is apt to be influenced
by how close you feel you or your loved ones
are to ground zero.

Harry Truman for example openly and repeatedly
expressed no regrets over approving the bomb on Hiroshima,
(which among others killed ten thousand soldiers and
wiped out the regional military command center), but he
was thinking as commander and chief of forces composed
of sons, husbands, and fathers who were
expected to suffer horrendous casualties in an invasion
of Japan.

Be honest, if waterboarding was believed able to avoid
911 and yet had then been expressly forbidden by Bush he,
(or a Clinton), would have been impeached
in a heartbeat, then to spend the rest of his
natural life under heavy gaurd.

The question is does one think we are
in a war?  The answer is critical.


.

[This message has been edited by Huan Yi (02-17-2008 02:12 PM).]

Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


2 posted 02-17-2008 10:07 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

    

     "Serious political torture" is a stupid phrase for me to use.
I'm sorry.  As you know, I'm personally against torture for any reason.  But I'm glad to hear your point of view.

As I said above:
quote:
      I'm not going to ask folks who support my values alone to write to their representatives.  I would like them to, of course.  But if people having other points of view have things to say, much as it pains me, they should probably be aired as well.  Actually, I want them to.  And I'd like to know what everybody thinks about this stuff in general.


     If you've had time to look at the article, I'd like very much to hear your response to that as well.  Thanks, Huan Yi.  Yours, BobK.


      
 
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