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Passions in Poetry

Honor Thy Father

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Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


0 posted 01-02-2008 04:27 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


In the past 24 hours I have read of  men
who killed their own daughters because
they disobeyed their expressed wishes
concerning their social behavior.  Both
fathers came from cultures where such
would be considered “honor killings”.
Now let us assume that these men devoted
their lives, making sacrifices, to raise their
families only in their and the eyes of
their home culture to be humiliated.  Is
that a mitigation to be considered at trial?

And just to make it difficult, (though having
nothing to do with the facts),  let’s say the
daughters went willingly into pornography.
.
TomMark
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1 posted 01-02-2008 05:30 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

rwood
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since 02-29-2000
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2 posted 01-04-2008 07:30 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

who buys it?
SEA
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3 posted 01-04-2008 01:12 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

I don't see how their culture could possibly come into play here, in today's world how can anyone say that kind of behavior is ok, and since when does a mans honnor come before his child's life?! It's garbage.
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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4 posted 01-04-2008 08:13 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,320325,00.html


.

There's a question here:
if the children do not strive,
if not become, what their self denial desired,
what is it then that the parents gain
in exchange for their sacrifice?

To be harshly simple,
what is the point of parenting?
It strikes some that much of Europe
is at a loss for an answer which is why,
absent immigration from cultures that
have no sympathy for their own, the continent
is in decline.

.

[This message has been edited by Huan Yi (01-04-2008 09:05 PM).]

TomMark
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5 posted 01-04-2008 08:48 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

The father obviously has mental disorder.

One of my dearest friend whose son did drug in high school. One day he told her that he was going to a friend's home to party. She called his parents to make sure that there were adults but got the information that those boys were going to another boy's home where my friend was quite sure that the parents had been out of town. At about 11pm she called police. Those police were very excited and sent out some 6 cars and made a show and all but her son were taken into custody and each parents got a call. about 10-12  some boys.

The son has not knowledge that it was his mother who called police. He continued on doing drugs so my friend kicked him out of home.   One of his friend/classmate received him. His friend's father is a medical doctor. They have a in-house servant to take care of the children and they bought him 100 dollar+ shoes and wanted to take him out of US for traveling (my friend did not give out the passport). Half years later, the boy surrendered to her mom. He learned what a real home was and what true love was. Now he is in college and doing very well and helps other students. He does regret his misbehave in high school. But , each child has his own way of growth and parents shall never give up.
SEA
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6 posted 01-04-2008 09:50 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

I have three kids. I would not kick them out(have them live with someone, anyone else) while they were still under age. My oldest, is 18 and shortly after turning 18, she joined the Air Force. The best part? She is finding out that the things I told her were true. She is learning and that is what matters most to me. I would never leave the raising of my children to anyone else....that to me, is giving up.

My kids are all teens and they challenge me on a daily basis. That is part of growing up, you get to 17 and think you know everything, and eventually, (as I did) you realize that couldn't be further from the truth. More than a dozen times I've called my parents and apologized to them for the kid I was. LOL

I can not wrap my head around a parent killing their child. I think those who do it should be shot.
Huan Yi
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7 posted 01-05-2008 03:51 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

"I can not wrap my head around a parent killing their child. I think those who do it should be shot."


And yet there are cultures that immigrants
come from that . . .

I also seem to remember a true story
of a father centuries ago
who, before the public
with his own hands, hanged a son
who had been convicted of murder.

And in a movie
didn’t Yul Brynner portraying
a father execute his own son, (Tony Curtis),
for betraying his own people for love
in a war against the Poles?

And: "Genesis 22, is narration from the Hebrew Bible in which God asks Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac on Mount Moriah . . ."

And we can easily get into a discussion as to
when one becomes a son or daughter rather
than an inconvenience.

Nothing's simple.

.
Huan Yi
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8 posted 01-08-2008 08:57 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,320954,00.html


.
TomMark
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9 posted 01-08-2008 09:53 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Good news.
Murder never means love in any culture.
joe86s
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since 01-07-2008
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10 posted 01-10-2008 07:32 PM       View Profile for joe86s   Email joe86s   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for joe86s

Aren't we all just a bit too quick off the trigger in condemning another's actions? I'm not saying what the guy did was right--but i don't think they had 'mental problems'

thing is, love is different in different places. our ideas of love are quite innovative--ours is a Shakespearean invented love, one reinforced through sit-coms and decades of dramatization. Before that, most marriages were made out of convenience and the romantic love we expect between husband and wife was rare. Also, people had many more children--these were usually assets to the subsistence farming people were doing

as a Chinese American, I also have a very different idea of love for family--because of the one child policy, many of us didn't grow up with brothers and sisters; therefore, my generation often think of our cousins as brothers and sisters. To me, they are as close as my own right hand, and I would sacrifice as much for them as I would for my parents--does that mean families who rarely speak to their cousins are devoid of love?

We must keep clear that our mindset is not a universal constant but a phenomenon of our culture and upbringing. To that man, he was practicing what was considered the 'right thing' in his culture, just as kosher Jews are doing what they think is right by following methods of food preparation thousands of years out of date and Aztecs were 'doing the right thing' by practicing ritual cannibalism for their gods.

it's easy to judge by raising our noses and hard to step outside of the box and look at our culture as one color within an endless spectrum. but is it any better that we still allow people to drive cars which aren't fuel efficient? that we don't provide free health care for the indigent, as all other western countries are doing? maybe in a hundred years our grandchildren will look at us and consign the bunch of us to the 'crazy lunatics' drawer
TomMark
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11 posted 01-10-2008 08:40 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

A warm welcome to this wonderful place,joe86s.
  
"to the love is different in different places"

The father's action was not love. It is face-saving for the disgraceful behave of the child, in fearing of other people's opinions. His action has shown that he has lost his conscience and humanity.  

joe86s, can you define love for me? if there is not a universal one, then how come every body is talking about the same contents?

And I believe that child killing is not general culture of that area though media may have said everything about it.

Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


12 posted 01-10-2008 09:36 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

“His action has shown that he has lost his conscience and humanity.”

I also seem to remember a true story
of a father centuries ago
who, before the public
with his own hands, hanged a son
who had been convicted of murder.  

Can you reconcile the two?

Does all fall
before the life of one’s own child?

.
TomMark
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13 posted 01-10-2008 09:59 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

I will say that it was out of his  self-righteousness.  
joe86s
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since 01-07-2008
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14 posted 01-11-2008 07:19 PM       View Profile for joe86s   Email joe86s   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for joe86s

thanks for the welcome! i love places like this which let people discuss and broaden their minds.

i also love puppies.
and my father and mother.
and my sister.
and my friends
and my various ex-girlfriends (ehh... to an extent)
and my (as of now) non-existent girlfriend

all very different kinds of love, no? just as love for your first fling is very different for your wife of forty years.

what i guess i'm saying is--there's all different kinds of shades of love, and it can be a very wonderful thing. but, just as even colors are not a universal among humans (did you know that cultures which have only three words to describe colors, ie blue, red, green, cannot differentiate between, say, blue and purple?) love is not either.

so, no, that man didn't love his child the way we love ours. but people of his culture might say he had great love for his family (their honor) and his forefathers. i don't think it's right to label him as evil--he is a product of his times, and not a deranged mind.
TomMark
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15 posted 01-11-2008 08:17 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

joe86s

You have not give me your definition of love yet.

" but people of his culture might say he had great love for his family (their honor) and his forefathers."

Prove it!!! can't use "might" to say that you were saying the right thing.  
 
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