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Speechless.....

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Balladeer
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0 posted 12-04-2007 04:21 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


In a campaign that has spread like wildfire across the Internet, a group of Israeli environmentalists is encouraging Jews around the world to light at least one less candle this Hanukka to help the environment.

The founders of the Green Hanukka campaign found that every candle that burns completely produces 15 grams of carbon dioxide. If an estimated one million Israeli households light for eight days, they said, it would do significant damage to the atmosphere.

"The campaign calls for Jews around the world to save the last candle and save the planet, so we won't need another miracle," said Liad Ortar, the campaign's cofounder, who runs the Arkada environmental consulting firm and the Ynet Web site's environmental forum.


I also read a news story of a Catholic church in England which has opened up a confessional exclusively for confessing "crimes against the environment". (No joke!)

I wonder if the confessional booth for not recycling is blue?


Believe me when I tell ya, folks. You ain't seen nothin' yet!
Mistletoe Angel
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1 posted 12-04-2007 06:08 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

As an American who takes conservation, ecological wisdom and sustainability most seriously on even the more insignificant levels, I absolutely agree this is absurd and doesn't accomplish anything.

Look, the emissions candles release are a drop in the bucket compared to what fireplaces/chimneys release. The latter not only emits more CO2 particles than any other room or device in the house: it emits a whopping amount more than even the next closest appliance (some argue the stove, others argue the shower).

If environmentalists want to make their case about making fireplaces more green, I absolutely agree there. Having read years ago about how much emissions charcoal briquettes and firewood release, I have, beginning in 2004, been using Java Logs, which each log is about 65% used coffee grounds (studies actually show coffee grounds suprisingly burn brighter and hotter than sawdust logs, while producing 88% less carbon monoxide than firewood) which a Canadian engineer by the name of Rod Sprules invented eight years ago from a book of "silly ideas" he wrote, where one suddenly stuck with him and made a lot of sense. Java Logs have been expanding rapidly on the US market over these past four years, where as recently as 2005 they were only available in select outlets in four states (New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut and New Jersey) and now you can find them at select outlets in almost every state.

But candles? Unless you were to set a new Guinness Book of World Records statistic for the World's Largest Candle at thirty feet wide in diameter and one-hundred and fifty feet tall, and ignite it, which that would certainly release a lot of CO2 particles into the atmosphere.......I think the mindset that even lighting candles to celebrate holiday traditions and funerals, among other important rituals harms the planet immensely is downright dippy.

By that logic, those Israeli environmentalists ought to be implementing a national ban on burning incense in antique stores and gift shops.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
TomMark
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2 posted 12-04-2007 08:48 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Sir Balladeer, you have no trust on good-will.

If everything on making environment better and cleaner is fake , the intention at least is not fake and worth of a word of respect. You keep laughing out loudly  your biased laughing.  

(if this is considered as P-A, do please delete.)

[This message has been edited by TomMark (12-04-2007 10:45 PM).]

Christopher
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3 posted 12-04-2007 11:35 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

it's not what you do, Mike, but that you do it.
Mistletoe Angel
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4 posted 12-05-2007 12:37 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Although I do find some of Michael's opinions on the environment somewhat unfortunate, with all due respect, I believe the point Michael was making here was that some environmental organizations and coalitions cross the line and go too far, where the more trivial, insignificant things are being targeted rather than the more obvious, gargantually larger scale factors.

In that respect, at least, I'm in solid agreement with him.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
rwood
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5 posted 12-05-2007 08:07 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

sighs..

i love candles, and my fireplace.

so does that mean my attempts at ambiance, tranquility and romance in the house is considered an evil against the environment of mankind and that I need to either use: electricity...or sit in the dark, or limit myself to one flame...

how cruel.
Balladeer
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6 posted 12-05-2007 09:49 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

rwood, it's a sad state of affairs indeed when the instruments of your love life are bad for the environment

Noah, thank you for your thoughts. It's the absurdity that is absurd.

Welcome to the age of paranoia, guilt and control
Ringo
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7 posted 12-05-2007 11:02 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

What's next? Taking the candles out of the Catholic Churches?
Actually, I think I will go right out and light a candle myself to pray for those that are not lighting candles in celebration of their freedom of religion.

What would you attempt to do...if you knew you could not fail?.
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TomMark
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8 posted 12-05-2007 11:48 AM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

My dear Sir Balladeer, I don't believe a little  patch of green can block you view of the ?????

Local Rebel
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9 posted 12-06-2007 06:46 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

Welcome to the age of paranoia, guilt and control



Are you refering to the War on Terror?  It didn't seem to me that you were too unwilling to part with principle in the pursuit of Jihadists Mike.  A few civil liberties here -- a few there -- all in the name of security.

But, believe it or not, I actually AGREE with you -- that how we face security issues is a great tempest in a teapot -- whether it is a global war on terror or global warming -- paranoia, control -- too tempting to overstep the bounds of the Constitution -- but, in the face of disaster -- like Katrina -- we know that civil liberties et al go down the river as government takes control until the situation can be stabilized.

This is where the matter of policy-making comes into play.  It's much more credible -- and worthwhile -- to discuss how we handle these different crisis that we face -- than to say they don't exist.  I'm pretty sure that you think the people who don't believe there is a terrorist threat from the Middle East are on the lunatic fringe -- and especially the people who are feeding that little frenzy (like the ones sitting in at Bill Maher's show screaming about the government being responsible for 9/11 and not Al Quada).

But, in all honesty -- I can't see what your beef is here with people exercising thier Constitutional right to free speech to encourage others to do, or not do, something in a completely voluntary way.  Where's Clara Peller?

Balladeer
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10 posted 12-07-2007 01:40 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Do you see anywhere I was referring to the war on terror, reb? Then why the question - unless you are just using it as a reason to work it in to the conversation?

that how we face security issues is a great tempest in a teapot

Nor did I make any reference to security issues. Don't feel like traveling down your sideroads this time, sorry.
Local Rebel
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11 posted 12-07-2007 05:37 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Every story, Mike, has a protagonist and an antagonist.  In the story of Us, whether you want to call us the United States, Western Civilization, or, in your case -- Republicans -- there are different antagonists that we face -- global terrorism networks, a hurricane, 40 hurricanes, anthropogenic global warming, an extinction meteor, Hugo Chavez, Iranian nuclear arms (oops, scratch that one) -- whatever the antagonist is -- it is a Security issue.

To quote Madison, via Brad

quote:

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.

It is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad.

No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum8/HTML/000815.html#6



If you want to pretend that you don't understand Comparison again Mike, oh well

But, you still haven't explained why you object to free-thinking people exercising thier right to free speech asking other free-thinking people to participate in a voluntary action?
Balladeer
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12 posted 12-07-2007 09:59 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

It's a thread about a group trying to save the planet by cutting back one candle on Hannukah. They say the extra candle will cause significant damage to the planet. Jews have been lighting the same amount of candles for their entire existence, with no reported significant damage incurred to the ozone layer, greenhouse affect or whatever. That's it. Up until you people have commented on their opinions of such a statement. You have so far injected.....

the war on terror
over-stepping the boundaries of the constitution
civil liberties
Katrina
government control
al Quada
Hugo Chavez
Iranian nuclear arms
Quote from Madison about tyranny and oppression

all in the name of some kinds of comparison. May I suggest you buy looser  jockey shorts?

But, you still haven't explained why you object to free-thinking people exercising thier right to free speech asking other free-thinking people to participate in a voluntary action?

I haven't objected at all. I've simply displayed it and ridiculed it. They are entitled to say it and I'm entitled to give an opinion and ridicule it, if I wish. If another group comes out with sign that read BAN BAKED BEANS, THE LEADING CAUSE OF FLATULENCE HARMFUL TO THE OZONE LAYER, I will ridicule that, too, Hugo Chavez notwithstanding.
TomMark
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13 posted 12-07-2007 12:20 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

You are right Sir Balladeer. Because nowadays  many lit candles for meditation, for fashion and for bathing, so they (the group)just try to gave up their share to keep the balance.

Tom
Huan Yi
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14 posted 12-07-2007 03:49 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

What about all those birthday candles
every time a kid gets a year older?


.

Not A Poet
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15 posted 12-07-2007 04:41 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

I read just yesterday that kangaroo farts don't contain methane. The "experts" are trying to fingure out how to get cows to eat the same stuff 'roos do.
But I'm not eatin' that stuff.
Local Rebel
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16 posted 12-07-2007 05:36 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

It's a thread about a group trying to save the planet by cutting back one candle on Hannukah.



You're right.  So long as you didn't say:

quote:

Welcome to the age of paranoia, guilt and control.



And then it became a thread about:

quote:

the war on terror
over-stepping the boundaries of the constitution
civil liberties
Katrina
government control
al Quada
Hugo Chavez
Iranian nuclear arms
Quote from Madison about tyranny and oppression



Paranoia, guilt, control....

But, you've convinced me Mike -- or rather -- my comparison has convinced me.  It's better that your ilk remain un-paranoid about anthropogenic global warming -- given your track record on global terrorism.  

Ridicule. PLEASE !  
(I'm supposed to wear jockey shorts?)
Balladeer
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17 posted 12-07-2007 06:21 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Why, reb, thank you for giving me a track record on global terrorism.

My ilk and I thank you and plan on remaining un-paranoid.
Local Rebel
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18 posted 12-07-2007 10:02 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Afraid I haven't given you that track record Mike -- you, your ilk, and our flareless leader have.
rwood
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19 posted 12-08-2007 05:34 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

well, I'm a little confused. I know my knowledge of natural science isn't up to par, but logically thinking back....wouldn't the atmosphere have suffered a breakdown years ago....before electricity and there was nothing but fire, before the killing off of great herds of animals...I mean didn't the dinosaurs poot? And crap VW sized piles of waste? And what of all that volcanic activity?

I think we need to care about the atmosphere, but to become so ridiculous we feel/or create a need to breathe through our butts like turtles.

Balladeer
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20 posted 12-08-2007 05:54 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

You would think so, Regina. I read where some experts had proclaimed that Krakatoa threw more into the atmosphere than all of humanity has combined. Considering there was an age where large eruptions were common-place, wouldn't one think the atmosphere should not have survived that. When Saddam Hussein set fire to the oil fiends in Kuwait while retreating, scientists claimed that it would take over 10 years for the ozone layer to repair itself. One year later they checked it again and it had been completely repaired.

all that an some knucklehad is claiming that one less candle on menorahs will keep the ozone layer from becoming dangerously impaired....go figure.
Not A Poet
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21 posted 12-08-2007 06:17 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

quote:
...some knucklehad is claiming that one less candle on menorahs will keep the ozone layer from becoming dangerously impaired...

An empty wagon always rattles.
Bob K
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22 posted 01-30-2008 12:14 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

Dear Balladeer,

           I really hate doing this, but I will.  Could you please post the source of your story?  Heaven knows there's enough idiocy going about in the world for everybody to take responsibility for a huge heaping portion, left, right and center, and heaven knows the environment movement has loonies foaming on both sides, but I'd really feel better if the source on this was something like The Economist on the right or The BBC internationally or The New York Times in The Center or The Christian Science Monitor on the Slight Left or The Nation further over and not someone like Fox or The Washington Times or some of the other places that aren't quite as clear with their fact checking.

     I may have mentioned to you that I like to have my news either well sourced or with the reliability of the sourcing there for me to estimate for myself.  Nobody has to supply that for me, but then I can always ask, right?
My best, BobK.
Bob K
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23 posted 01-30-2008 12:23 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

     I realize this is an old posting; but what is the sourcing on this?  It sounds like Fox or Drudge or The Washington Times and I can't recall seeing any personally sourced and confirmed backup for this.  Balladeer, do you recall any that's gone on record as confirming any of this?  BobK.

Ron
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24 posted 01-30-2008 09:39 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Sources are always good, Bob.

Pick your own?
 
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