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Grinch
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Whoville

0 posted 2007-12-01 11:52 PM


Well it’s more of a whine really, or maybe a whinge - no on third thoughts it’s definitely a RANT!

Do you simply like the word xxxxx or are you trying, for some inane reason, to get your post count up by replying to every post that crosses your path with that single word salutation?

I only ask because it just acts to devalue all the other replies that people spend time and care constructing. It shows little respect for them or the poets whose poems you visit.

Edit after counting to 10 several times.

I don't mean to be a Grinch, if you have a half reasonable explanation (or even an unreasonable one put reasonably) I'm willing to apologise and ask a Mod to delete this post (if they haven't deleted it already).

Am I off your Christmas card list?  

[This message has been edited by Grinch (12-02-2007 09:54 AM).]

© Copyright 2007 Grinch - All Rights Reserved
Denise
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1 posted 2007-12-02 06:52 AM


When I was able to be here more often in the earlier days I read and replied to lots of poetry. Sometimes it was with a Wow!, a Beautifully done!, or I enjoyed this very much! I've also seen, and given, smiley faces for comments.

I don't think it is our place to critique others' replies. Some people have serious time constraints, some just naturally keep it short and sweet. No one person's reply devalues another's.

I've seen rants like this before, but never with singling out one person in particular. I think that is so uncalled for and shows a serious lack of understanding of other's time constraints and personalities.

I, for one, hope your insensitive post does get deleted, as it deserves to be.

Grinch
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Whoville
2 posted 2007-12-02 07:38 AM


Denise,

quote:
I've seen rants like this before, but never with singling out one person in particular. I think that is so uncalled for and shows a serious lack of understanding of other's time constraints and personalities.


If I didn’t name xx how the heck would anyone know who I was talking about?

This is the alley - it’s where rants belong and if you think my post was insensitive after the edit you should have read it before.

For one thing it mentioned time constraints like for instance how someone can read, digest and reply to a few hundred poems at a rate averaging out at five poems per minute over several hours - regardless of the poems length. I deleted that remark just in case there’s a reasonable explanation, I can’t think of one but hey I’m willing to at least entertain the possibility.

But take a look at the evidence for yourself.
/main/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Teen+Poetry+|NMB| 3&number=36&type=m


quote:
No one person's reply devalues another's.


Yes it does, if someone (hypothetically) was cutting and pasting a single reply into poems at random as fast as their fingers could type without reading the poem, it begs the question how many other people are doing that too. If that (hypothetical) person was doing it to get 'conquistador', or some other ‘membership status’ the membership status system is as a whole is devalued. I wouldn't know who gained their status legitimately and who just cut and pasted their way to the top.

quote:
I think that is so uncalled for


That’s exactly what I said before posting the question, not posting wasn’t an option I considered.

If you believe this post should be deleted then delete it - you’re a moderator, you have both the ability and the right if you believe I’ve broken a forum rule.

[This message has been edited by Grinch (12-02-2007 09:55 AM).]

Balladeer
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3 posted 2007-12-02 07:53 AM


Take the good with the bad, grinch.

I can understand your point about the implied insincerity in a one-word reply but, on the other hand based on the way the forums function, any reply either moves your poem up to the top of the list or revives it from the archives. Is that a bad thing?

He used several 'enjoyed' comments in my archived poems. I took it as a sign that he went into the archives to look for my work.....I have no complaints with that.

Denise is not  referring to broken forum rules, but more like unwritten rules of common courtesy. I'm inclined to agree with her....

Grinch
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Whoville
4 posted 2007-12-02 08:21 AM


quote:
I took it as a sign that she went into the archives to look for my work.....I have no complaints with that.


Nor would I but I do have a complaint if someone is trawling down every post in the archive one by one and cutting and pasting a single reply. I don’t know if that’s what’s happened, though all the evidence points that way which is why I asked for clarification.

Take a look at the link Michael - don’t stop on page one the replies go further back note the reply times.

quote:
Denise is not referring to broken forum rules, but more like unwritten rules of common courtesy. I'm inclined to agree with her....


If you think I’m out of line for asking the question or that my suspicions are ill-founded Michael delete the post and I’ll apologise to xx by email.

I've vented my spleen so I'm easy either way.


[This message has been edited by Grinch (12-02-2007 09:56 AM).]

Balladeer
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5 posted 2007-12-02 08:44 AM


Well, grinch, I've known you long enough to know you are a decent person who does not try to cause unrest or throw out insults for the hell of it. I simply have to question the avenue you have taken. The Alley is a place to bring up issues that irritate one and get reponses, pro and con, from others. If you had begun a thread like MULTIPLE ONE WORD REPLIES: INSINCERE OR NOT?, then that would be appropriate and people could chime in with their opinions. To single out one person, even including their name in the title, makes it personal and limits participation.

Delete it? I;m not an admin or an Alley moderator. My beat is Open. That choice would be theirs - or yours.

Denise
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6 posted 2007-12-02 08:45 AM


I don't have deletion rights in the Alley, just in Open and the Corner Pub.

You could have vented your spleen without mentioning a specific person by name. Why would anyone other than Artic Wind need to know about your displeasure with his/her replies? A private email to the person would have been the better path to take. I wonder why you didn't choose that option? Have you asked yourself that question?

Yeah, I think an apology is in order.

Grinch
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Whoville
7 posted 2007-12-02 09:26 AM


quote:
Why would anyone other than xxxx need to know about your displeasure? A private email to the person would have been the better path to take. I wonder why you didn't choose that option? Have you asked yourself that question?



I don’t converse with many people on this forum via email Denise, three in fact up to about an hour ago, I find I can say pretty much everything I want to say concerning PIP somewhere in it’s blue pages. I could have sent an email but decided not to, my question  was to a member and about their actions in the forum so that’s where I put it.

What did xx say when you emailed him\her Denise or aren‘t you interested in an answer, what did I say when you emailed me? Oh hang on you didn't you berated me in the Alley.  

I  can’t help but notice that nobody has addressed the issue raised by my question, is this a case of shooting the messenger or are you actually looking into this. For what it’s worth I don‘t mind taking a shot in the meantime so here’s an apology for xx.
------------------------------------
xxxx,

I’m sorry if I offended you by addressing you directly and by name in the PIP forum, I didn’t intend any such distress but rather wanted to understand the seemingly odd nature of your recent replies in the archive forum.

I recognise that there may be a reasonable explanation to posting pattern that does not directly implicate you in any untoward act, my only intention was to ascertain the explanation from you directly. If my comments have been perceived by you as an accusation of misconduct I can only apologise unreservedly and sincerely.

---------------------------------------------

A copy of that will be winding it’s way to xx directly.

If you want the post removed but can’t delete it move it into the Mod discussion area until you decide what to do.

[This message has been edited by Grinch (12-02-2007 09:57 AM).]

Denise
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8 posted 2007-12-02 09:56 AM


Why would I email AW? I'm not the one who was annoyed by the replies. No, I'm not particulary interested in the reasons for anyone's style of replying. To each his own. I don't think it is any of my business. But if you feel that it is your business and/or want to discuss things like this, I think you should follow Michael's advice and discuss it in general terms without naming names.

And I'm glad that you apologized to AW. It shows you are the decent person that Michael knows you to be.

Denise
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9 posted 2007-12-02 10:22 AM


Since you edited your reply after I replied...  

You asked me what AW said when I emailed him/her, not what did xx say.

Now I think you are just being childish.

No, I didn't email you privately, because I felt that a public berating of someone deserved a public response. I didn't start a post singling you out for such behavior. I merely replied to what you had already written.

Now that's all I have to say, unless you edit your previous response again.

Grinch
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Whoville
10 posted 2007-12-02 10:27 AM



Denise,

quote:
No, I'm not particulary interested in the reasons for anyone's style of replying


Ah, see that’s where I’ve been going wrong, I was also thinking of the possible chaos this type of posting could create but if you’re not interested in the reduction in bandwidth, unnecessary use of disc space and  overall reduction of speed of the forums in general that’s ok then.

Just to clarify before I start mass posting in open:

Posting a reply of any type, including perhaps a graphic and three of those cute smiley things is encouraged and condoned by you as a Moderator.

Can I include a message to that effect in the post so that everyone can join in and get their posting numbers up?

Perhaps Ron can re-write the software to minimise the problem of all the old posts being at the top with a meaningless message that takes an age to load the graphic.

Do you want me to wait until you get clarification on all that before I start posting?

Take your time, I don’t intend to do any of the above, btw I’ve removed any reference to you know who, can you do the same on your posts. I still don’t see the problem but I’m willing to take onboard what you’re saying to avoid any unintentional offence.

Grinch
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Whoville
11 posted 2007-12-02 10:29 AM



Denise,

Seems we cross posted, I replaced the name with xx based on your concern not out of childishness.

Denise
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12 posted 2007-12-02 12:08 PM


Bandwidth issues are Ron's business, not mine. If there is a problem with it, we will hear about it.

"x"ing-out the name at this point makes this whole thread a bit meaningless, don't you think? I think it would be better if you would have just deleted it, or had it deleted, and started a new one with no names mentioned.

TomMark
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13 posted 2007-12-02 12:26 PM


Grinch, see what happened when you did not quote my "poem"?

"Then thy sweetened tongue shall not be tasted through thy art of words"--Tom

Grinch, woman is different on expression "thanks". It is her politeness to thank each one individually. She has no any "no-good" meaning. I  myself, at the old age as myself, do not write "thank you " in my poem thread because I do not want to push my poem to the top therefore newly posted poem has a chance to get noticed.

You shall go back to CA. There are poems waiting for you to make comments.

Not A Poet
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14 posted 2007-12-02 03:10 PM


I'm surprised that no one except Grinch sees a problem here. All right, there is no "rule" against this sort of posting. Common sense should indicate that common courtesy prohibits it.

It certainly serves no useful purpose other than bumping up xx's post count. The down side is that it forces both the forum moderators and visitors to wade through page after page of garbage to find worthwhile posts.

As moderator of CA, I actually appreciate the fact that it moves rather slowly. That give me time to review every post for propriety. If xx were pulling that stunt there, making me go down several pages to check everything, I simply would not have time to do so.

Rest assured that, even though there is no rule against that, I would surely have words for xx about it.

I don't know that this discussion makes any difference either way but I do believe that Grinch makes a valid point. I don't know, maybe he does want to check the affected forum and is severly hindered by the excesses. Maybe it would be useful for the moderator to "mention" it to xx.

JMHO, of course.

Balladeer
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15 posted 2007-12-02 04:54 PM


The down side is that it forces both the forum moderators and visitors to wade through page after page of garbage to find worthwhile posts.

Pete, we have had no reports of people complaining they are wading through garbage.

If xx were pulling that stunt there, making me go down several pages to check everything, I simply would not have time to do so. CA requires special  types of replies, hence the name of the forum. You needn't worry about stunt-pulling there so why create an unrealistic scenario complete with warning over a situation that will not occur?

maybe he does want to check the affected forum and is severly hindered by the excesses

Severly hindered, Pete? come on, now. Isn't that a little overly-dramatic?   Grinch is whining, ranting, venting his spleen (all his words), that's all. Insincere relies bother him....and I can relate to those thoughts. Do we knock out all insincere replies then?  Please say no because I don't have 20 hours  a day to dedicate to doing that.

We have those "Inappropriate content?" boxes on each page for a reason. If a member has a complaint against another member, his actions, or his infractions of rules he can issue a complaint which will be researched and discussed by the mods and administration. That is the proper way to handle it. We received no such complaint. Instead he chose to make his displeasure at this person public so everyone could see his rant. That is out of line for any member-friendly and respectable site.

I  can t help but notice that nobody has addressed the issue raised by my question, is this a case of shooting the messenger or are you actually looking into this  

So you are going to criticize members for not responding or  take it as a personal vendetta against you? There can be another explanation. Perhaps people just aren't interested. Perhaps they don't see the problem you do. Perhaps they do not feel the anguish you do because they consider it not worthy of being labeled a problem worth ranting about. Is who actually looking into it? Your post wasn't created to ask anyone to look into anything. It was to rant and demand explanations from a member you singled out. Yes, you have changed the title after who knows how many have seen it but the body of your post is still accusatory aimed at one unnamed member. You wanted to rant? You ranted. Don't chastise others for not joining in if they prefer not to.

Not A Poet
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16 posted 2007-12-02 05:26 PM


quote:
Pete, we have had no reports of people complaining they are wading through garbage.

OK, possible a little hyperbolic. I might have said "wading through a whole lot of stuff that they have already read and really didn't want to read again, only to learn the xx had bumped it to the top for no reason." I guess I was lazy.

quote:
Severly hindered, Pete? come on, now. Isn't that a little overly-dramatic?

Nope. Can't agree this time. Most of us do have limited free time. To have to wade through a few hundred posts just to find something new may well be a pretty severe hindrance.

Should Grinch have given a name? of course not. Should he expect a moderator to jump on correcting what he sees as wrong? Again, of course not. Is this sort of offense likely to spell the end of PIP? I surely don't think so. Is it extremely discourteous to the rest of the readers? In my humble opinion it certainly is.

Mike, although we tend to agree on most everything, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Since I don't have the time or interest to wade through Teen and rarely get to Open, I really don't care one way or the other how or even if this situation gets resolved. I simply thought Grinch was being a little unfairly chastised for complaining here in the Alley, the professed place for complaining, and might use a little support. If that comes to CA, I expect to take a more active interest.


Balladeer
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17 posted 2007-12-02 05:50 PM


Agreeing to disagree works for me, Pete, and I'm making a mental note not to pop over CA with any one words responses!

The Alley IS a place to complain but, hopefully, it will never become a place to openly confront or attack another member.

Grinch
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Whoville
18 posted 2007-12-02 05:58 PM


Michael,

quote:
So you are going to criticize members for not responding or take it as a personal vendetta against you?


No I’m not, I never asked for any replies from members I just asked for an answer from xx. If you Denise or anyone else wants to add a comment they can if they don’t they don’t. I’m not looking for any encouragement or incitement from anyone else. I think there’s an issue and I’m addressing it, if you or any other Moderator decides there isn’t an issue remove or move the post, I’ll get the hint and wander off quietly to another thread. As I understand it you can move the thread to a moderator discussion area, why don’t you do that?

A personal vendetta! Give me a break Michael unless you’re intending to send me a horses head by post this is little more than a minor disagreement and, as far as I’m concerned isn’t likely to escalate into anything more.

quote:
There can be another explanation. Perhaps people just aren't interested. Perhaps they don't see the problem you do. Perhaps they do not feel the anguish you do because they consider it not worthy of being labeled a problem worth ranting about.


Or maybe they just don’t want to get into a minor disagreement with a couple of mods, or maybe they prefer to email support to the poster, or maybe they saw it as a question directed at xx and decided they’d let him speak for himself. Who knows? Who cares?

  
quote:
Is who actually looking into it?


The moderators.

As I said to Denise if you’ve looked into it and discussed the possible implications and are happy to condone multiple cut and paste replies to get your posting numbers up fine, get the post deleted and I‘ll stop ranting.

It’s not my bandwidth or server and if the pages slow down I can just sit back and wait or go somewhere else, though I’d prefer it if things just stayed as they are - hence my question.

If you let one member post in the way xx is at the moment it opens the floodgates for every other member that’s that way inclined, if they cut and paste a link to graphic and add a couple of smilies it’d probably take as few as three such posters to render this site unusable. Isn’t that something someone should be looking into?


Grinch
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Whoville
19 posted 2007-12-02 06:03 PM


quote:
The Alley IS a place to complain but, hopefully, it will never become a place to openly confront or attack another member.


Personal attacks are against the rules Michael, if I’ve broken that rule as you're suggesting I apologise.

Welcome to the Alley. This is the place for complaints, gripes, griches, problems, questions, and the discussion of such. Feel free to express yourself in whatever fashion you please, but keep in mind that personal attacks, profanities, and other obscene language will not be tolerated. Since this forum is not restricted, minors will have access to the topics. So let's try to keep it clean.


Now, if you do happen to have a personal beef with another member, try emailing them first. If no resolution is possible, and if you really feel like airing your dirty laundry, then by all means, bring it to the Alley. Just don't get bent if you don't get the desired result.


If you break the rules, I will email or IM you, asking that you edit your posting. If this does not happen, then I will either edit, lock, and/or delete the offending post or reply. I'd rather not, since I believe in freedom of speech. However, I also believe in the responsibility that comes with that right.



[This message has been edited by Grinch (12-02-2007 06:55 PM).]

Balladeer
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20 posted 2007-12-02 08:04 PM


A personal vendetta! Give me a break Michael unless you re intending to send me a horses head by post

actually, I ran out of horse's heads years ago and, besides, I don't care for spaghetti. My reply was in response to your question is this a case of shooting the messenger or are you actually looking into this

As I said to Denise if you ve looked into it and discussed the possible implications and are happy to condone multiple cut and paste replies to get your posting numbers up fine, get the post deleted and I ll stop ranting.

..and,as I have said earlier in this post, tickets are issued to research these possibilities of problems. Had you sent one instead of going the direct confrontation route  we would have investigated. Nowhere in your introduction were we asked to.

It s not my bandwidth or server and if the pages slow down I can just sit back and wait or go somewhere else, though I d prefer it if things just stayed as they are - hence my question.

Nope, your "question" was a rant.

if they cut and paste a link to graphic and add a couple of smilies it d probably take as few as three such posters to render this site unusable. Isn t that something someone should be looking into?

Absolutely. All the more reason to issue a ticket, informing us of a potential problem.

I have checked into this. The poet in question has 2184 posts, 23 of them posted poems, which leaves 2159 comments. Of those 2159 comments, 86 of them have been either ENJOYED! or LOVED IT!  That leaves 2073 which weren't.  At this point I don't see that as a problem.

I DO appreciate this coming to our attention to be investigated. I just wish that you and other members would use the INAPPROPRIATE CONTENT? box to issue tickets, which causes the moderators to investigate....and let me assure you that we DO investigate all complaints or reports of problems.

...and disregard the dead fish in the mail


Not A Poet
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21 posted 2007-12-03 09:57 AM


Mike, feel perfectly free to give an occasional one word response in CA if you want. I don't really expect you will do that though. I can accept one word responses. Sometimes one word may say it all. What I have a problem with is 100 of those one word responses all dumped in the course of a half hour. I can't accept that as sincere.
Grinch
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Whoville
22 posted 2007-12-03 10:03 AM



quote:
I have checked into this. The poet in question has 2184 posts, 23 of them posted poems, which leaves 2159 comments. Of those 2159 comments, 86 of them have been either ENJOYED! or LOVED IT! That leaves 2073 which weren't. At this point I don't see that as a problem.


Micheal far be it for me to question your ability to investigate issues (or to add up) but there’s at least 521 in Teen#3 alone! All of them added since 17th of Nov this year.

If you click on the link I supplied it should take you straight to them.

I think your figures are probably skewed due to the fact that you’ve used the search facility which probably needs it’s index rebuilding at regular intervals. If I’m right that would mean that the search engine only returns results since the last index, which in turn means it isn’t picking up the threads I’m talking about.

I’ll take on board your comments about making people aware of potential problems, but after the response I’ve got in this thread I think I’ll just ignore anything I see in the future. As Denise pointed out the bandwidth and server are Ron’s problems not ours and I‘d advise all members to do the same, it’s just not worth the hassle.

Balladeer
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23 posted 2007-12-03 10:06 AM


What I have a problem with is 100 of those one word responses all dumped in the course of a half hour.

I agree, wholeheartedly, Pete and should that extraordinary situation, which would be as likely as Toerag opening a charm school, occur it will be dealt with.

Grinch
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Whoville
24 posted 2007-12-03 10:15 AM



quote:
What I have a problem with is 100 of those one word responses all dumped in the course of a half hour.

I agree, wholeheartedly, Pete and should that extraordinary situation, which would be as likely as Toerag opening a charm school, occur it will be dealt with.


Mike that’s what is happening that’s what this whole rant is about!

5 replies per minute over extended periods, did you think the issue was one word replies?

When's toe's charm school opening?

Balladeer
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25 posted 2007-12-03 10:18 AM


but after the response I�ve got in this thread I think I�ll just ignore anything I see in the future.

znd,as I have pointed out, that is because you did NOT use a ticket and preferred direct confrontation instead.

As Denise pointed out the bandwidth and server are Ron�s problems not ours and I�d advise all members to do the same,

Should you wish to continue the explanation that concern for bandwidth was what prompted your initiation of the thread, go ahead. you negated that possibility with your original comments. Hopefully the members will not follow your advice since the ticket program can be a very effective way to identify and resolve problems on the site. For those who would be so paranoid to believe they would be harrassed by doing so, the program is also set up to accept anonymous reports.

Thanks for the reference to the amount of replies in Teen. I will check with Ron and find out more about the workings of the search engines and the tools available to us to get more exact results.

If your figures are correct, that is indeed a problem that needs to be investigated and resolved....

....all of which could have been handled without the necessity of a personally-confrontational public thread.

Grinch
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Whoville
26 posted 2007-12-03 11:20 AM



quote:
Should you wish to continue the explanation that concern for bandwidth was what prompted your initiation of the thread, go ahead. you negated that possibility with your original comments.


Mike,

I posted the question to give xx the opportunity to explain what he was doing, if he‘d replied with a reasonable explanation I‘d have apologised and that would have been an end to it. Unfortunately despite an invitation from me via email with a link to this thread he seemed to be too busy posting 5 posts a minute to explain his reasons, which he was still busy doing yesterday while this thread was in full swing.

My next step would have been to raise the issue with a Mod pointing out the possible bandwidth issues but as two arrived in the thread I thought the issue would be looked at, recognised for what it was, and resolved, I was wrong.

I was initially reluctant to raise the issue of bandwidth and post a blow by blow account of how to manually undertake a denial of service against this site for any disgruntled head-the-ball to implement, which is why it‘s not mentioned in the first post.

I only did so after being dismissed and questioned by the moderators about my intent who repeatedly couldn’t see any issue to resolve, so I explained my concerns. At the same time I posted numerous suggestions to move the thread to the moderator forum to minimise the head-the-ball issue.

Granted I could have logged a ticket but from the evidence so far in this thread I doubt anything would have been done about it apart from a moderator telling me they weren’t interested or that there wasn’t a problem or that the problem was Ron’s or that there were only 86 replies.

I'll pass in future and leave it to the experts

Balladeer
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27 posted 2007-12-03 11:46 AM


I doubt anything would have been done about it apart from a moderator telling me they weren t interested or that there wasn t a problem or that the problem was Ron s or that there were only 86 replies.

Feel free to insult the administration if you like with your prejudgements but we take every ticket seriously. We don't tell anyone we are not interested. Ron also reads every ticket submitted and could have given his input on the validity of the search engine counts and perhaps has better ways we  are not aware of to come up with more exact figures. You did not even bother to try. You prefer to say you doubt we would have done anything as a  reason for your inaction, which is convenient for you and insulting to us.


If I didn t name xx how the heck would anyone know who I was talking about?

That's your reason for this thread. A ticket wouldn't do that. You wanted a public personal accusation for your "rant" (your word). Why was it important to you that everyone know exactly who you were referring to? The action should have been the issue....but it wasn't. Your irritation caused you to make sure everyone knew who you were referring to. That takes it out of the realm of "for the good of the site" and into personal confrontation and attack.

It wasn't the way to handle it.

Grinch
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Whoville
28 posted 2007-12-03 12:37 PM


quote:
We don't tell anyone we are not interested


quote:
You prefer to say you doubt we would have done anything as a reason for your inaction, which is convenient for you and insulting to us.


I based my comments on the evidence in this thread Mike.

Denise said:
quote:
Why would I email xx? I'm not the one who was annoyed by the replies. No, I'm not particulary interested in the reasons for anyone's style of replying. To each his own. I don't think it is any of my business.


She also said that the bandwidth was Ron’s problem and you said that you’d looked into it and there were only 86 posts which wasn’t a problem.

I know the Mods do a good job on the whole Mike, my criticism was aimed at the system rather than those involved in managing it. Look at the evidence Mike it’s taken 25 posts in this thread for you to even accept that there may be a problem, do you really believe that one ’inappropriate content’ ticket would have got the issue resolved any quicker?

quote:
It wasn't the way to handle it.


Perhaps not but it’s the way I chose to handle it, you raised your concern earlier in the thread, I took onboard your comments and emailed the poet with an apology. You can keep whipping that particular dead horse if you like Mike but I can’t understand what you expect to gain from it - I‘m fresh out of apologies.

I’m off for a nap now, all this typing is making me tired,   I‘ll leave this post and the issues for you to deal with as you see fit.

Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA
29 posted 2007-12-03 01:59 PM


do you really believe that one �inappropriate content� ticket would have got the issue resolved any quicker?

yep...and I agree that nothing more can be  resolved here. As I mentioned way back when you're a decent fellow, burr under saddle notwithstanding ,  and we simply have a disagreement on how a particular situation should have been handled. I hold you in the same high regard I always have.

Who knows? This thread may possibly serve as a means of letting people know that the ticket system exists and to give it a try when situations arise....and I plan to continue investigating this particular situation and will resolve it in some way

Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
30 posted 2007-12-03 02:14 PM



Thank you for your time Mike and burr-ing with me.

Now back to my nap..

Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
31 posted 2007-12-03 05:33 PM



Mike,

Don’t worry this isn’t a rant, the reason your search didn’t pick up the posts isn’t because the index hasn’t been run as I suggested (though that might affect the results in other forums) it’s because only the originating post is indexed in archived forums. Regardless when the indexing ran the replies in any archive forum wouldn’t show on the search engine results.

I don’t know how useful that is but I thought I’d let you know.


Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648

32 posted 2007-12-03 08:21 PM


Actually, Grinch, this is what I said:

"Bandwidth issues are Ron's business, not mine. If there is a problem with it, we will hear about it."

That doesn't mean that I think it's his "problem" and something that I couldn't care less about, which seems to be the impression that you took from my statement. It means that technical issues like that are his field of expertise and if he needs to let us know that there is a problem, he will let us know, as he did in the past about posts with too large or too many pictures or smilies. And I can only assume that if no bandwidth red flags were going up, then there wasn't a problem to be concerned about in that regard.

And Pete, I didn't have a problem with Grinch complaining, that's why we have the Alley. My only issue was with the mentioning of a specific person in the complaint, that's all.


rwood
Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793
Tennessee
33 posted 2007-12-04 08:15 AM


quote:
It is perfectly acceptable - desirable - to help your fellow Passions Members fulfill their reasons for being here. Just don't be surprised, confused, or offended to discover they may not be here for the same reason you are.(Ron)


I think that applies.

I've gotten the "enjoyed". I've also gotten digressive personal essays, complete re-writes of my poetry, & the occasional fee free psychoanalysis for replies. It's all good, except for the stalkers. Even poets can attract overzealous fans who want to "eat your words off your body." (The poem was about my grandmother who had just passed away!)  

One word or 5000, hey...it's their keystroke.
Different strokes for different folks?

though you have a point about generically generated type replies, I'm not sure how it could be logically resolved? Control is control, and if "enjoyed" is gigged as a no no, then other "super" one-word wonder wanderers will be in question and the person/s could simply spice up their replies with "highly enjoyed or truly enjoyed." and nothing is really changed.

So, if I had to think of one word to describe your original post, it would be: Uptight.

Loosen up, Mr. Grinch. It's almost Christmas.

Here's a Whohug

hush
Senior Member
since 2001-05-27
Posts 1653
Ohio, USA
34 posted 2007-12-04 09:04 AM


Bump.
Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
35 posted 2007-12-04 09:52 AM


Rwood

Who’s complaining about one word replies?

I couldn’t give a flying fig for one word replies, my complaint is that it seems that one member is systematically opening posts one after the other and pasting a reply, the fact that the pasted reply is one word is irrelevant.

Can I explain it in simple terms?

Sure:

Here’s how you do it, go to the last page in the Open Forum, start at the oldest poem posted, open it and paste in your required reply (don’t read the poem you’re working against the clock to get as many replies posted as possible). Once that’s done go to the next oldest and repeat the process (hurry up remember time is important). Keep repeating the process for an hour or so and watch your number of posts soar, you’ll be a “member conquistador” within a couple of days.

How quick can you post?

Well so far the world record seems to be 12 seconds per cut and paste, the world record holder repeats this amazing feat daily in the teen archive, check it out in the link I posted.

Are there any downsides to this?

Yes, apart from the fact that people like Mike are led to believe the poster actually read their poem it’s also an abuse of the member status  scheme. Then there’s the problem of all the replies being bumped to the top, if you do the same in open you  could knock the most recent post from the top down to 21st in the list in around 4 minutes. 4 minutes later it’ll be at 41st and 4 minutes later 61st, as this is going on for extended periods the new post will be lost in the flood before tea-time.

Can’t we just ignore it?

Yes, a single poster is restricted to 5 posts per minute and their available time to cut and paste and as long as they restrict their posting to Teen Archive the only downside is disc space usage and the length of the “Todays topics” page which slows down user access. However if it is ignored or considered acceptable and two or three people start doing the same thing in Open, adding a graphic and a couple of smilies the site will become unusable quicker than you can say “uptight”, not to mention the additional cost in bandwidth to the owner and users (the post and smilies cost the owner and the graphics cost me and you in reduced page loading).

Is that really likely to happen?

Your guess is as good as mine but as it’s happening with one member as I type there’s no reason to think it won’t be repeated by others unless something is said or done.


quote:
So, if I had to think of one word to describe your original post, it would be: Uptight.


I don’t mind being called names and taking abuse if that’s the cost of raising this issue, which it seems to be, so give it your best shot, you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t reply in kind though, I don’t think it’d add anything to the conversation.


Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
36 posted 2007-12-04 09:53 AM


No Hush.

This is how you do it!

Bump.

Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
37 posted 2007-12-04 09:53 AM


No Hush.

This is how you do it!

Bump.

Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
38 posted 2007-12-04 09:53 AM


No Hush.

This is how you do it!

Bump.

Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
39 posted 2007-12-04 09:53 AM


No Hush.

This is how you do it!

Bump.

Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
40 posted 2007-12-04 09:53 AM


No Hush.

This is how you do it!

Bump.

Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
41 posted 2007-12-04 09:54 AM


No Hush.

This is how you do it!

Bump.

Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
42 posted 2007-12-04 10:03 AM


Can you see the reply times on my posts?

I managed 5 posts a minute cutting and pasting as fast as I could with no time for reading.

If you go to Teen 3 you’ll see the same results like the examples above all posted by the same person with the same reply.

/main/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Teen+Poetry+|NMB| 3&number=36&type=m

Essorant
Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada
43 posted 2007-12-04 12:05 PM


Grinch

If posting a lot and taking up more space is a problem, what about these members:

Member        Posts

XXXXX         60,704
XXXXX         43,349
XXXXX         41,874
XXXXX         37,616

et cetera


        

Of course, they didn't post in such a way.  But the effect is still is a lot bigger.  

I think the problem here is more about the lack quality and lack of respect shown by this kind of posting.  There is no way we may believe anyone may read a poem that quickly, carefully, let alone carefully consider a reply.



Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
44 posted 2007-12-04 01:25 PM



Ess,

You’re right - sort of.

Every post and every reply has a cost however that’s normally spread out over a long period of time not condensed into a few hours. There are limits that the software and hardware can deal with, increase the number of replies over a short time and the forum needs archiving that much sooner, not to mention that it has to render more to create a page view of the recent replies. That increase in size is also an increase in bandwidth costs when it delivers to the end user, we aren’t talking massive increases but at the moment it all has to be paid for by Ron adding to it just to change your membership status seems a little unfair.

There’s a possibility looming that this site will become too popular for Ron’s financial good, he’ll need to balance the number of members and posts against usability and cost. At that point the options are to close the site to new members or reduce the throughput, I don’t think it’s reasonable to hasten the necessity of that just to get your number of posts up.

I’m sure if anyone thinks that that the total number of posts is that important and they ask Ron nicely enough he’ll add a few thousand  if you promise not to abuse the posting system.

But I wouldn’t hold your breath.

Marge Tindal
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 1999-11-06
Posts 42384
Florida's Foreverly Shores
45 posted 2007-12-04 01:50 PM



Reminding some people that Ron IS the owner and maintainer of this site ... if HE is worried about what someone feels are a few overzealous posts .. I have complete faith in him that he could/and would put a stop to it~

It's not like he doesn't tidy up in here EVERY DAY !

Also a small reminder that assumptions are just that~
We could have NO IDEA what any persons idea is in posting ... quickly, slowly or otherwise~

Sometimes, short and concise is nice~
Have a beautiful day ... now let's all go read and REPLY to some poetry~

~*The sound of a kiss is not as strong as that of a cannon, but it's echo endures much longer*~
Email -     noles1@totcon.com   

Marge Tindal
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 1999-11-06
Posts 42384
Florida's Foreverly Shores
46 posted 2007-12-04 01:51 PM



Then ... let's do it again~

Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
47 posted 2007-12-04 02:06 PM



Marge,

Shouldn’t that be:

Again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

There is a record to aim for after all - 5 replies a minute.  

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
48 posted 2007-12-04 02:32 PM


quote:
I think the problem here is more about the lack quality and lack of respect shown by this kind of posting.  There is no way we may believe anyone may read a poem that quickly, carefully, let alone carefully consider a reply.

Just thought that was worth repeating. There is the whole problem in a sentence or two. Bandwidth is really a minor concern and I'm sure Ron will take care of that if needed. Disregard for respect and courtesy are what is wrong.

Grinch, you're flatulating into a stiff breeze here. Apparently the majority approve such insincere and bogus comments, even when numbering in the hundreds.

Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
49 posted 2007-12-04 02:56 PM



Pete,

Seems that way.

I was clutching the forlorn hope that they were confusing single word replies (which I don’t have a problem with) with posting hundreds of posts for no reason other than increasing the total number of posts, which is what I was talking about.

Maybe the old adage is correct - if you can’t beat them join them.

I surrender guys - I now think it’s ok to cut and paste replies without reading the post, in fact I’m thinking of making an attempt on the record myself in open - would anyone consider sponsoring me?

By the way, Christmas is still cancelled.

Happy posting

Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA
50 posted 2007-12-04 03:07 PM


Good grief!  I thought this issue was ended amiably and put to bed but you're not letting it go. ok, this IS the Alley....let's talk Alley talk.

Give it up, man. This whole thread was created because you were miffed at another poet throwing out a lot of one word replies. You considered it insincere and insulting and you wanted people to know who was doing such an unconscionable thing. You wanted to bring him on the carpet in public.

Once you were called on for your actions, you then decided to make the issue concern for the site, the use of bandwidth, creating doomsday scenarios of multiple people doing this and bringing the site to it's knees. From there to the increase in bandwidth costs. Then to disk space usage slowing down user  access. The to costing users in reduced page loading. From there we go to the popularity of the site getting so great actions like that will cause undue hardships on ron to maintain the site, all attempted justifications of  the thread's creation, which have nothing to do with the thread's creation.

You brought up one good point only....the issue of other poems being bumped off the leading pages faster....which is the issue that concerns me.

As for the rest of it, anyone reading this thread probably knows your reason for creating it.....you were bugged by the actions of this one person...period. Trying to turn it into some glorious cause to save the site ain't gonna hide that fact so why not let it go?

Essorant
Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada
51 posted 2007-12-04 03:35 PM


Grinch justified his question well enough in his first post:

"I only ask because it just acts to devalue all the other replies that people spend time and care constructing. It shows little respect for them or the poets whose poems you visit."


Grinch
Member Elite
since 2005-12-31
Posts 2929
Whoville
52 posted 2007-12-04 03:44 PM



I already had let it go Mike, several times, the first being right after I posted the original thread, my spleen was sufficiently vented at that point, but people keep responding and it seems a little rude not to reply to the comments. Besides the Grinch you seem to be painting sounds like the nasty, conniving and vindictive type who’d just labour the point for fun and the sake of argument.

Fortunately the reality is I really am the nice cuddly version you keep referring to, HONEST!

I’ll bite my lip and refrain from posting again in this thread just to prove the point - consider it an early Christmas present .

Have a nice one.

TomMark
Member Elite
since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133
LA,CA
53 posted 2007-12-04 03:48 PM


Grinch sounds like Bush, So you shall like him , my dear sir Balladeer. I don't even want to feel sorry for you. (for the heart you put into).
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-05
Posts 25505
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA
54 posted 2007-12-04 03:52 PM



Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885
Oklahoma, USA
55 posted 2007-12-04 05:20 PM


"Good Grief"

rwood
Member Elite
since 2000-02-29
Posts 3793
Tennessee
56 posted 2007-12-05 07:48 AM


"Who’s complaining about one word replies?"

You are. You spelled the word "enjoyed" out in one of your original edits/posts, and in this edit it's addressed in your first question, (in the first part and last part of the compound sentence, to be exact).

and then you address the devaluation and disrespect toward other posters, poets, and work by constantly using that one word reply. I see your point and I addressed that in my post to you, but this has become more complex.

So, alright, now you are more worried about the mass generation of pasted one word replies, and you have calculated how many one can paste in so many seconds.

and then you've figured exactly how far this mass posting makes another poem go down the list.

and then disk space, speed of access, reduced page loading, bandwidth costs, etc.

Wow, Grinch. I've been here almost 8 years, and not once did I ever consider how my reply to someone's poem or post might affect the technical operation of the site. Mainly because I'm not a computer specialist and I still find the internet to be something magical.

I stand, denounced from the mighty halls of CompuTech and bow interminably with respect to this type of knowledge and ability.

All I can do is trust that Ron knows what he's doing and I feel he works very hard to keep things operating smoothly. I also trust that if I did something to upset that or I caused a glitch, he'd notify me.

quote:
I don’t mind being called names and taking abuse if that’s the cost of raising this issue, which it seems to be, so give it your best shot, you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t reply in kind though, I don’t think it’d add anything to the conversation.


For someone who has been so thorough with the technical aspects & workings of mass one-word posts, why did you not properly read my post?

I never called you any names and I'm sorry my post came across as abusive. I directed the word "Uptight" toward your post, not your person.

quote:
So, if I had to think of one word to describe your original post, it would be: Uptight.


I based that word on the tense nature of your post and your replies to others, which seem erratic, shifting, defensive, & stiffly rejecting of any point granted/offered and especially of that of opposing opinion. That's simply my opinion of your offerings, not YOU as a person. And that's why I asked you to loosen up. That didn't mean I didn't support you or your cause at all.

Is it possible you've taken things a little too personally, and even when others have taken the time to reply to you, with sincerity, with an amount of inspection and reading, it's still not good enough to you if one isn't in full agreement, or as rigidly pressed or demanding of a solution.

anyway, email me direct if you wish.

I meant no harm to you or your person and hope you're having a fine day of inspiration.

sincerely,
reg



Essorant
Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada
57 posted 2007-12-05 12:39 PM


Is the member still posting in this way?
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