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Passions in Poetry

Heartless Obama?

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Balladeer
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125 posted 11-16-2007 01:36 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Yes, Ron, we're talking about traditions and respect.

Actually, Ron, if I were invited to a Muslim dinner and was told it would be expected of me to bow down on the rug at the appropriate time, and I accepted the invitation, I would do so out of respect.

Obama is not asked to go out of his way to accept the traditions of a foreign religion or even a foreign country. He's expected to honor the traditions of the very country he claims to want to lead. Call that unimportant or immaterial if you like. Many people do not see it that way...
Essorant
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126 posted 11-16-2007 02:44 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I agree with Balladeer.  If one involves himself in a special occasion he ought to follow the respectful traditions thereof.  You can't say a good man shows good manners when he won't simply put his hand over his heart in a token of respect that belongs to the special occasion.


rwood
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since 02-29-2000
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Tennessee


127 posted 11-16-2007 05:30 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

That's true Ess~ But you can't say the occasion has any heart in respect for Which it Stands if everyone isn't concerned with anything but looking mannerly.

Sometimes, being passive aggressively tears down a higher or deeper truth. And since many are actually listening to the words, analyzing them, and finding a conviction toward that truth, perhaps the manner of apathy isn't belonging to a man toward the flag, but to a people who see nothing but the flag and hold it up on occasion, replete of themselves, not patriotism.


hush
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Ohio, USA


128 posted 11-16-2007 09:32 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

'when the time came to bow one's head for a moment of silence before the meal, would you do it or would you just look around the room, or maybe ask where the potatoes were?'

This actually reminds me of a really funny moment (I guess if by funny, I mean awkward...) We went out to eat with a religious couple and as our food hit the table, my fiance and I (as usual) dug in... when we looked up, the other couple was quietly watching us... and the guy quietly said "We'd like to say grace.'

Heh. Oops.

Would I bow my head? Sure. Would I clasp my hands or say Amen? No. And I can attest from personal experience that silence generated by the lack of that one simple word is often louder than everyone else's "amen" together.

So what is your problem, Mike? First you say its his disrespect for the tradition... but you fail to show why respecting the tradition is important. Its existence is its own defense... because it is a tradition, someone should do it. The end.

Then you say it's his inconsistency... which is fine, I guess... but that's like saying I'm inconsistent because today I like hot dogs and tomorrow I like hamburgers. In the long run... does this one action really matter? If this is the biggest thing there is to nail on the guy (and I don't know, I haven't really researched the candidates all that thoroughly yet) but if it is... then he's got my vote.
Not A Poet
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129 posted 11-16-2007 11:39 AM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

Just to add a bit of officialness:
quote:
U.S. Code Title 36, Chapter 10 Section 171
171. Conduct during playing
During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.

This is "the law of the land," federal law concerning flag etiquette. There is no penalty provided for failure to comply but it is still law. Depending on your point of view, it may be a very important law, particularly when applied to one who aspires to be the leader of the nation. Some of the antics of other presidents notwithstanding, should we not hold a presidential hopeful (indeed all political hopefuls) to a somewhat higher patriotic standard than plain old Joe Blow who never hopes to lead anything? I can't imagine how anyone could seriously consider voting for a candidate who holds our patriotic traditions, not to mention the law, in such low regard. As reluctant as I may be to admit it, I would vote first for Hillary. Now I'm gonna be
Balladeer
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130 posted 11-16-2007 03:26 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

So what is your problem, Mike?

Actually, hush, I wasn't aware I had one

but you fail to show why respecting the tradition is important.

Well, you have me there. I can honestly say I have no answer to that comment. I can say I would hate to live in a country that had no national traditions. I can say that millions of people died defending that piece of red, white and blue cloth  and I can say that respecting their sacrifices which have allowed us to live in a free country and honoring their memory in a respectful, traditional  way is a small thing to ask.....but, to try to convince someone why traditions are important, I cannot do.....nor would I even try. Watch Fiddler on the Roof a few times. Maybe you'll get the idea.

but that's like saying I'm inconsistent because today I like hot dogs and tomorrow I like hamburgers. In the long run... does this one action really matter?

You are comparing respecting or not respecting the anthem or pledge in our traditional manner to choosing hot dogs or burgers????Ok, I'll bite. Let's go to the handshake. It is a traditional form of friendly greeting. You and I meet. We extend our hands in a handshake. Tomorrow we meet again and you extend your hand but I don't. What's going through your mind, standing there with your hand out, as I ignore it? Happy thoughts? The next day we meet and I stick out my hand which you take, reservedly. Perhaps you think that maybe I had had a bad day the day before and was distracted. No problem. Next day we meet againand  again I ignore your extended hand.  Tell me that the inconsistency would not bother you. Tell me that it's nothing different that ordering hamburgers or hot dogs. Tell me that you wouldn't eventually scream, "Either shake hands with me or don't, moron!!!!" LOL!

I would be willing to guess that a large percentage of the American people want the trait of consistency in their President. Apparently the fellow can't even be consistent about honoring our patriotic traditions. Not a great start, I;d say...
 
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