Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA
when the game doesn't go your way you can't pick up the marbles and just go home.
Why, thank you, LR, but as you can see happily, I'm still around. Can't pick up the marbles, though, since I lost them years ago. Thanks for the kind words.
Regarding the hand-over-heart controversy, an Obama campaign spokesperson said:
Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. In no way was he making any sort of statement, and any suggestion to the contrary is ridiculous.
That is not germain to the thread? Really? First it shows that Obama's crew tried to rationalize it with a sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't reply and then afterwards, when someone told Obama how many hits it was getting online, he came out with a "No,it wasn't the creed - it was the anthem" reply, negating what his staff had tried to justify it with......just more flip-flopping, that's all.
But, I don't think you actually got what I wrote: The symbols, the ceremonies, the institutions, the traditions, have no meaning without meaning.
Sure, I got that, LR, and responded accordingly. The thread is not about these things having meaning. This is not about a man challenging the meaning of anything, by his own admission. The thread is not about "Our oath, our anthem, our traditions - do they have meaning?" The thread is about one man not respecting those meaningful or meaningless traditions that everyone else there respected in our traditional way. That's all. period. Se acabo. Going into meanings is as immaterial as bringing up torture.
I feel like Chris Matthews being challenged to a duel here - Now that's interesting...Chris Matthews, the bullet-firing inquisitor who doesn't even wait for an answer before going off with another question or, when given a response he doesn't like, makes sure to speak louder than the other person and drown him out so no one will notice he has moved on to another topic. You think I don't answer you? When I ask you a simple question, I get a dozen links fired at me with a "the answer is there - find it" type of response
Mike- does somebody have to have strong feelings about rituals such as the Pledge and the National Anthem in order to have strong feelings about their country?
Absolutely not, hush, and I would never question your, or anyone else's feelings toward the country based on such a response. We are not talking about that here, however. As I showed earlier, Obama did not fail to act because he was making a statement or even had lukewarm feelings toward the tradition.....he just thought it was the anthem, basically a silly response since the same tradition holds true for both.
One does not have to have strong feelings toward a tradition to honor it. One can simply do it by respecting the beliefs of others. If you went to a friend's house for dinner who happened to be catholic, when the time came to bow one's head for a moment of silence before the meal, would you do it or would you just look around the room, or maybe ask where the potatoes were? I think you would respect their tradition. Would that mean you were then religious and believed in God? No, it would mean you were being considerate enough to honor your friend. Obama was on stage, in front of many people and other political candidates, a man running for President, and he chose not to show this same respect. How smart can a man be to do that? Does his election crew have any hair left or have they pulled it all out?
LR asks why are these symbols important, and why do we honor them... which you disregard.
Disregarded for the same reason I just explained. The importance of the symbols doesn't matter in the slightest here. The disregard for those who DO respect the importance does, especially when those people number a vast majority of American.
If I reach out my hand to shake yours in friendship, it's not necessary to know that the tradition began as a way to show that there were no weapons concealed in the hand and was therefore a sign of friendship. It's enough to know that we regard it as a symbol of friendship. That doesn't mean you have to participate. Perhaps you don't like touching other people's hands (who knows where they might have been! ) or maybe you just don't like the tradition. That's fine. Howard Hughes never shook anyone's hand, either. But he was consistent. It wasn't a "sometimes I do and sometimes I don't" scenario.
This thread, hush, was simply about was it right (or smart) for Obama to not respect or honor our traditions while on the public stage, asking for votes to be President? Nothing to do with what the symbols represent, what our country represents, how waterboarding works, how bad katrina was....etc, etc, etc. and I apologize if either you or LR are irritated because I won't go down those roads but that's the ways it is.
I shall now resume the never-ending search for those darn marbles.....