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Passions in Poetry

Heartless Obama?

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Balladeer
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75 posted 11-08-2007 05:16 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Guess who is doing damage control....


"This is just so irritating," Obama responded. "This was not the Pledge of Allegiance. This woman was singing the Star Spangled Banner. Now, I was taught by my grandfather that you put your hands over your heart during the Pledge of Allegiance. The Star Spangled Banner, you sing. So that's what I did."


So now we go from his people saying..Regarding the hand-over-heart controversy, an Obama campaign spokesperson said:
Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. In no way was he making any sort of statement, and any suggestion to the contrary is ridiculous.
to Obama saying that. They can't even get their stories straight, it seems.

Anyone see Obama singing there? Anyone NOT see everyone but Obama with their hands over their hearts? For all of you that have responded here about Obama being his own man and that he's entitled not to follow tradition and do his own thing, he just shot you down. He would NEVER have disappointed his grandfather, now would he? He WOULD have followed  the tradition without that confusion between the Pledge and the Anthem.

Ya gotta smile....come on now  
Brad
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76 posted 11-08-2007 05:31 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

You're kidding, right?

This thread has been one big joke from the start.

We've been smiling all the way through.
Balladeer
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77 posted 11-08-2007 05:35 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

May as well continue, Brad

What is the proper procedure when the national anthem is played, you ask me?

THE UNITED STATES CODE
TITLE 36
CHAPTER 10
The “FLAG CODE”

§171. Conduct during playing The Star-Spangled Banner

During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.


Yes, Brad, it's as much of a joke as the countless ridiculous threads concerning  Bush over these past years. I don't recall any complaints from you then. Seems it only becomes ridiculous when it's aimed elsewhere.
Brad
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78 posted 11-08-2007 06:07 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Yeah, but all those threads regarding Bush's speaking ability were intended to be jokes.

Now, if you want to talk about the record.

Oh God, please say no, please say no!

We've been there, done that.
Brad
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79 posted 11-08-2007 06:13 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

But now that I think about it,

Do you think any of this is important enough to change your vote or that it should be important enough to change your vote?

Do you think any of this would seriously hinder his ability to lead the country?

Or is it just another distraction?
Balladeer
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80 posted 11-08-2007 06:15 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

...and there you have it, Brad. They're all jokes.

Just think of the fun anti-Bushers could have had here if it were Bush in that pic instead of Obama....a veritable field day, the only difference being that then it would have been front page news, complete with groups burning Bush photos in effigy, Boxer decrying the lack of patriotism in our leaders,Harry Reed proclaiming Bush unqualified to lead our troops, etc,etc,etc....all in the name of good fun, of course

Well, let's all laugh together....
Balladeer
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81 posted 11-08-2007 06:24 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Brad, what is NOT  a distraction? They are ALL distractions. bush getting drunk in college was a distraction. Screaming about the port sale to Dubai was a distraction. Politics are little more than distractions.

I will tell you one thing, though. IF I were a Democrat and IF I had to decide if I felt Obama were smart enough to lead the country and IF I had to decide between him and the other candidates and then saw this pic of everyone showing their respect in the proper way and him looking like he was bored with all the patriotic stuff, it would actually make me reconsider my views of his intelligence. It ain't smart....
Brad
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82 posted 11-08-2007 06:57 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Yes, those are distractions.

But the war, the state of the American people, the debt, the deficit, New Orleans, torture, etc. aren't.

I don't see it that way anyway.

(Uh, when I'm allowed off my high horse?)
Mistletoe Angel
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83 posted 11-09-2007 01:13 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

As much as I stand by my original statement that what Obama was doing during that ceremony certainly makes you think and has a curious tone to it, things such as that aren't going to influence my vote, as they're ultimately insignificant compared to where they stand on the issues, how ethical the candidate is, what personal integrity the candidate has and what ideas and vision the candidate has for the country.

YouTube: Hillary Clinton Sings National Anthem: January 27th, 2007

YouTube: Dennis Hastert & The Star-Spangled Banner: September 11th, 2006

Look, I didn't start a thread here when Hillary Clinton sang the national anthem with questionable vocals, or when former House Speaker Dennis Hastert couldn't remember some of the words to the Star-Spangled Banner.

Both those instances were pretty embarrassing in some respects, but I would never think less of the candidate just because of those gaffes and/or quirks, nor would they influence my vote......especially when both these politicians are jokers as they are.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Balladeer
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84 posted 11-09-2007 01:23 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

But the war, the state of the American people, the debt, the deficit, New Orleans, torture, etc. aren't.

So who has mentioned any of those things and what possible connection or relevance do they have with this thread?

Now, if you want to talk about the record.
Oh God, please say no, please say no!
We've been there, done that.


So why are you doing it? That desperate, Brad?
Brad
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85 posted 11-09-2007 02:18 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Desperate?

You've lost me.

If you want to talk about something substantive, be my guest.

This ain't it.


TomMark
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86 posted 11-09-2007 05:54 AM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

So, Sir Balladeer, Obama as a public figure bahaved somehow silly and his explanation was sillier. You will not vote for him anyway even if he did hand-up.

But are you try to tell me that you don't vote him because  he did not put his hand to his heart? If he did, you would say that he had not heart( as your Title of this thread). If he indeed has a heart then you would say ( or I say )that his heart was a stone and without life.  You have many significant reasons for not voting for him. while The Hand-Heart Gate is not one of them on your list...

Do you want to say  that he is such an ignorant? or he did not take his country seriously? Or he did not love his country? or  he is a traitor?

or he is against constitution?

Balladeer
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87 posted 11-09-2007 05:23 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ok, Brad. You confused me completely, which is not hard to do. We were speaking of distractions and comparing same and then you go into Katrina, torture, etc after pleading NOT to go into such things.

Not sure why you commented at all, since this is such a non-substantive thread.

TomMark, I have turned your reply over to a group of cryptologists. When they decipher it, I'll respond
Brad
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88 posted 11-10-2007 12:32 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I guess we're both confused here.

You said:

quote:
Politics are little more than distractions.


I don't think all issues in politics are mere distractions. Some of it is important and worth talking about.

I was just trying to give some examples.

As far as I know, I haven't talked about the picture or anything else in this thread. I responded to your idea of a joke.

But then . . .

Then I fell into it. I really am a sucker for these things.

TomMark
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89 posted 11-10-2007 02:48 AM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

oh, dear sir Balladeer, you have such a scholar-ly way to say that you misunderstood me.

What I was trying to say was that how you worded Obama was same as others to Bush. Only you have a seriously sound reason.

[This message has been edited by TomMark (11-10-2007 10:26 AM).]

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90 posted 11-11-2007 01:46 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

My brain hurts. I have continued to read this thread... and my brain... my poor aching brain...

The fact that anyone actually cares about this is killing me. Would you criticize someone for interlacing their fingers and folding their hands together in prayer while you  put your palms and fingers flat together? Does it make you mad when people tie their shoes the bunny-ear way because you do it the looping-around way?

And Mike, you apparently recognize you own pettiness when your defense is "Well, people do it to Bush..." People criticise Bush's policies on many of the things that Brad mentions... things that cause people to live or die, to flounder in poverty... those things are relevant. And in terms of Bushisms, yeah, there are plenty of jokes out there... because it's actually funny. This? I shrug my shoulders. Obama wasn't like hocking a loogie on the flag... he stood respectfully. Oh, but shoot... he was being respectful in a way you don't like... darn. Makes him stupid, right?
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91 posted 11-11-2007 09:56 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Actually, Hush, he wasn't following the code for conduct. Following that code is the way of showing respect. So no, he wasn't showing respect if he was aware of the code and for someone in his position, he should be aware of the code. So he has either shown himself as someone who does not respect the symbols of our nation, or does not agree with the codes for showing that respect and will do as he damn well pleases, or that he doesn't know the codes, which makes him uninformed of basic codes of conduct that every kindergarten kid used to know in this country, before the dumbing down of American kids by the public school system, that is. None of those possibilities put him in a good light, in my opinion.
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92 posted 11-11-2007 10:32 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Hush, as far as the actions (or inactions) of Obama goes, of course it's petty. That's one of my two points in this thread!

First, we have gone through 7 years of pettiness with regards to Democrats going after Bush for pettiness, things that have absolutely no idea with his actions or qualifications as president. Why? Because they have stopped at nothing to make every effort to throw whatever slurs they can come up with....be it his college drinking days, his reserve service record, his "photo ops" with the troops, etc etc etc. Have anything they've thrown against the wall ever amounted to anything? No,nyet, nada....but they keep going. As Joe Lieberman said two days ago, it appears that the Democratic party is interested in little more than repeated attacks on Bush instead of getting work done. So, for all that time, I've sat here, resding people taking these ridiculous jabs at Bush while others piled on with insults of their own....so now the table is turned. Petty? Oh, yes, but payback. Where were you when silly little attacks against Bush came out? Were you then saying stop the pettiness? All this stuff doesn't matter? No, and neither was anyone else. Yet, here, on the other side, all of a sudden it's unacceptable....too bad. Yes, we are speaking of petty and, even when Brad tries to inject torture, hurricanes and the like into it, the main topic is still the same.

The second point of the thread is that it was stupid. Why would a man running for president do that? To show he's his own man? He already  took that point away. You don't see a problem with that? That's fine. You take your son to a Boy Scout meeting. It's time to recite the Boy Scout oath. You notice that all the boys are reciting it but one. What do you think? More than that, you look and see the scoutmaster is looking around, with his hands at his sides, not up with the three fingers extended in the Boy Scout salute, and he's not reciting it, either! What do you think of HIM? Does any of this mean he's not a good guy? That he doesn't know how to scoutmaster? Nope, but it does show a lack of respect for the organization, the code, and the feelings of people watching him. Is that smart? Is that clever in some way or it just a wee bit dumb? If it's dumb on such a grand stage at a time he's looking for votes and running for president, is he too dumb to get your vote? He's gone from "I show respect with my actions" to "It wasn't the pledge, it was the anthem" when hubbub occurred. Flip-flopping already??????

Yes, the argument may be petty but the lack of intelligence show by him isn't and neither is the disrespect.

As Topo once sang, "Without our traditions, we are nothing more than fiddlers on the roof."
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93 posted 11-11-2007 05:09 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


So here we are
with the front runner
being a woman who accepts
a cheating husband,
(as our potential co-president),
and a man whose primary attribute,
offsetting all lack of experience,
is the color of  his skin.

Osamba must be quaking
in his boots . . .


.
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94 posted 11-11-2007 06:31 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

Actually, Hush, he wasn't following the code for conduct. Following that code is the way of showing respect. So no, he wasn't showing respect if he was aware of the code and for someone in his position, he should be aware of the code. So he has either shown himself as someone who does not respect the symbols of our nation, or does not agree with the codes for showing that respect and will do as he damn well pleases, or that he doesn't know the codes, which makes him uninformed of basic codes of conduct that every kindergarten kid used to know in this country, before the dumbing down of American kids by the public school system, that is. None of those possibilities put him in a good light, in my opinion.



Wow -- an argument that could substantively be applied to the entire Bush administration re: Torture.  or outing a CIA agent -- which is treason -- which, under the Constitution, is punishible by death.  

But, wow -- Obama seemingly failed to follow a protocol.


http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum6/HTML/001373.html
Balladeer
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95 posted 11-11-2007 06:39 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Thank you for not disappointing, LR...
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96 posted 11-11-2007 06:42 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Dear Sir Balladeer, if Obama did put his hand to the place where his heart was, will you vote for him?

You will not because there are others things that you do not agree on. And I believe that those other things weigh more when you make your decision of vote.

Still this  is a good chance to grind teeth though. I say that Obama is stupid but Bush is rotten from inside out
Balladeer
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97 posted 11-11-2007 06:49 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Tom.....so? Does Bush being rotten make Obama any less stupid? This thread is about Obama and his actions. If you want to talk about Busy being rotten, which has nothing to do with Obama, start your own thread.

Obama also has nothing to do with waterboarding, nor does  Obama have anything to do with Katrina....but you would never know it with some of these replies.

Apparently responding to the subject of this thread is not possible so fingers have to point elsewhere to get some kind  of acrobatic justification....
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98 posted 11-11-2007 07:01 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Dear Sir Balladeer

---"I see. Then Bush should be the standard by which candidates are judged? He would like that!!"---

See, You brought Bush here. So why couldn't I say something about him?

and --"Does Bush being rotten make Obama any less stupid? "

Yes, of course. Obviously there aren't smart ones out there so we want somebody less stupid than Bush.

relativity, relativety,  sir.
Ron
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99 posted 11-11-2007 07:03 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
...but you would never know it with some of these replies.

Mike, you would also never know, from most of these replies, that Obama is suddenly being seen as stupid. Maybe he knows the minds of the American people better than you do?
 
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