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Huan Yi
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since 2004-10-12
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Waukegan

0 posted 2007-09-27 09:05 PM


.


http://www.illinoispoets.org/poems0404.htm#Boomers


This poem has bothered me since reading.

In the context that he is speaking in,
Have we, the Boomers, done more harm than good?


John


.

© Copyright 2007 John Pawlik - All Rights Reserved
moondogz
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since 2007-05-01
Posts 397
Great White North
1 posted 2007-09-27 09:42 PM


Ha, ha! I thought Todd Possehl's poem was quite good...of course we know not what the Toddster has done to make this world a better place...he may simply see the glass as half full. [Edit - Profanity removed - Ron] I don't feel guilty about my contribution, miniscule as it was, like everyone else, I did my best.

             moon.

[This message has been edited by Ron (09-28-2007 07:22 PM).]

Brad
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since 1999-08-20
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Jejudo, South Korea
2 posted 2007-09-27 10:06 PM


One thing about Boomers always remains constant:

Your incessant concern over your significance as a groupl

moondogz
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since 2007-05-01
Posts 397
Great White North
3 posted 2007-09-28 12:51 PM


Brad, I think this "incessant concern" you speak of is mostly a media fabrication. I work with at least two dozen so called boomers, and have since 1980, and have never once heard any of them agonize over their impact on the state of humanity.

               moon.

Brad
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since 1999-08-20
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Jejudo, South Korea
4 posted 2007-09-28 01:10 AM


Fair enough.

Personally, I was thinking of a specific Boomer academic I met once. Can we say classic narcissist?

On the other hand, it could just be the media's endless fascination with itself.

Balladeer
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5 posted 2007-09-28 02:41 PM


Your incessant concern over your significance as a group

Interesting outlook, Brad. I admit that I, myself, am a boomer but I've never thought about the significance of that one way or another. It has, however, been an important group,just by where it falls into history. When you look at life in 1950 and life today, everything that has occurred has occurred in the "boomer" generation...tv, the birth of rock&roll, computers, moon landings, the greatest technological advances in history, artificial hearts, the list goes on and on. Boomers were the army in Viet Nam. Does all of this make boomers extra-special? No, it just makes them the people that were born at the time the country was entering it's most productive age.

There was one Wall Street type who wrote a book called "Following the Boomers" (I think)in which he became rich by simply investing in areas depending on the age of the boomers. He followed them all the way from school to getting jobs, to having babies in their twenties, to buying houses in their thirties, to vacation and travel, to investing and saving for their retirement in their late 40's and fifties.....he had it all mapped out and bought stocks in companies that were involved with whatever the boomers would be doing at that particular time in their lives. It was pretty interesting and ingenious.

Anyone who would beat their chest over their boomer status is off the wall....but ignoring the importance of their influence on the country in all aspects of society and technology would be equally foolish.

Balladeer
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6 posted 2007-09-28 02:49 PM


BTW, John, I don't see why that poem should bother you at all. His words are, at best, insignificant and speak nothing of the generation.
Huan Yi
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since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688
Waukegan
7 posted 2007-09-28 02:53 PM


.


"the ones who have now
put their kids through college
without confession, without principle
for that powerful piece

of parchment which allows them
to see how many garage doors
can be affixed to
a large suburban dwelling -- "


Mike,

That certainly bothered me.
And:

"the ones who frequent
pharmacies and rent video
after video to escape the shock
of a dead squirrel

raked from an auburn sea
of a million fallen leaves"

suggests an ongoing inability to deal
with realities.

John


.

moondogz
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since 2007-05-01
Posts 397
Great White North
8 posted 2007-09-28 05:33 PM



                  

[This message has been edited by moondogz (09-29-2007 12:05 AM).]

Brad
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since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
9 posted 2007-09-28 06:12 PM


I don't know about that. It's not money so much as feeling like you're living through debates that happened forty years ago.

There were times (and to be fair only sometimes) during the whole Clinton, Kerry, Bush debates that I felt like we weren't really talking about 'now' but fighting over the final, excuse me, epitaph of that generation (Vietnam, Civil Rights, etc.). And not just here, of course, all over the place.

There were times like it seemed Boomers were fighting with each other over their legacy.

Mike,

As the largest generation, I agree that it would be foolish to ignore their significance, but none of the things you mention actually got started by Boomers. You were there, but not the instigators.

Again to be fair, the scientific, technological, and cultural significance of the Boomer generation has yet to be fully mapped (You guys aren't dead yet.   )

But one thing is clear: Great music!


Balladeer
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10 posted 2007-09-28 06:35 PM


Thank you, moon. No thread here would be complete without someone working in a Bush bash, regardless of the topic. Ya done good.


You got it, Brad...great music! The rest is just...the rest!

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688
Waukegan
11 posted 2007-09-28 08:36 PM


.

The Boomers make up
almost 30% of the American population.
How do you ignore them and their influence?


.

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
12 posted 2007-09-28 09:41 PM


But it's a clearly divided 30%. And in that sense, you're pretty much like the rest of us.

The difference, and this is only an impression, is that you seem to fighting for the banner of the whole generation.

moondogz
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since 2007-05-01
Posts 397
Great White North
13 posted 2007-09-28 09:48 PM


[This message has been edited by moondogz (09-29-2007 12:05 AM).]

Balladeer
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14 posted 2007-09-28 11:09 PM


Brad, we're not pretty much like the rest of you...we are exactly like the rest of you. The only thing that made us different is when we were born. We were born right after the last world war (was that one the war to end all wars or was that WW1?), which made it a real BOOM with all of the celebrations, festivities, and return to normalcy. yes, they have  named other generations since ours - the x's, y's and whatevers, but they do not have the explosive starting point we did or the level of cohesion.
we were part of school integration and the end of black/while water fountains. We screamed when Elvis came along and then went nuts over the Beatles and Stones. We were flower power and Woodstock and the "beat" generation. We were "Leave it to Beaver" and "ozzie and Harriet" instead of Fear Factor and The Batchelor. We were in our teens in JFK's Camelot.

So what, though? As you correctly stated, we are not all dead yet. When we are, the generation will go the way of all generations. Does anyone talk about the generation that grew up during the Great Depression? How about the generation of the Roaring Twenties (minus Gatsby?) The generation that tamed the West? There have been many impressive generations and, once they are gone, they are gone and whatever current generation exists at the time is THE generation. Such is life. The baby boomers are singing their swan song...and why not? It's been one hell of a ride.

Brad
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since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
15 posted 2007-09-29 10:08 PM


This may be one of the few moments where Mike and I and Andrew Sullivan agree:

quote:
When you're ahead, don't stomp on the guy in second place. We've seen a few hints of the old Clinton mojo lately. We have the spiking of Josh Green's piece on Hillary for GQ. We have the flash of the old, angry Bill with Anderson. And we now have Bill's attempt to instruct Obama to wait his turn. But Gail Collins captured it best this morning, I think. She reported something I hadn't heard, but it sums up the Clintons' classic boomer narcissism and self-righteousness:

    Earlier this year at a campaign rally, Bill Clinton said that when he was at Yale, he told Hillary: "I have met all the most gifted people in our generation and you're the best."

Gag me, dude. Everyone under 40 these days is voting for Obama.


I have no idea how to say 'gag me, dude' with a straight face, but it seems appropriate here.

And I'm not under 40.

moondogz
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since 2007-05-01
Posts 397
Great White North
16 posted 2007-09-30 12:34 PM


I'm curious as to why Ron edited my "offensive" words and yet leaves other "offences" unchallenged?
        
         moon.

Larry C
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17 posted 2007-09-30 12:46 PM


moondogz,
Like what?

moondogz
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since 2007-05-01
Posts 397
Great White North
18 posted 2007-09-30 01:34 AM


The last sentence of Balladeer's last post on this thread contains a word (that means the opposite of Heaven) that when I used it was deemed offensive....just wondering why someone else gets to use "colourful" language and I can't.
        
              moon.

Sunshine
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19 posted 2007-09-30 01:59 AM


Moondog...certain words are allowed.  Certain other words, are not. Even interpretations of them, aren't allowed. Enough said.

~*~

It is interesting that only last evening I watched the CNN report on the first of several series of past presidents. Even though I was just a baby, it was President Eisenhower that adopted the real first use of television to "campaign" and make himself known in that medium to all of the American public that could at that time, own a television. And let me tell you - not everyone could.

What the WWII decade, and those before them, gave to the Boomers was the seed of ideas, and it just happened that our generation took them [even while riding imaginary horses into cowboy scenarios] and made something of them. We used our imaginations in ways that not even our fellow classmate could have comprehended...unless they were our closest friend at the time.

One of the more remarkable thing about the Boomers is that we also became more flexible in our thinking. NO, I never did drugs, so I'm not that flexible. But I AM flexible enough to realize that being open-minded is something that only a few decades ago, was not something that was done on a large scale.

It's one of the reasons I like the movie, "Remember the Titans" so much. It was the beginning of a new future for all kinds of people who had the imagination, an idea that we could all live together in one world.

John, I would surmise you have already decided whether or not you did more harm than good in your lifetime to this world. For myself, I'm not done giving my best, yet.


Huan Yi
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since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688
Waukegan
20 posted 2007-09-30 02:25 AM


Sunshine


Personally I am very thankful to be a Boomer.
Yet being that, I am willing to acknowledge that for
a general there may have been harm.  There was an article
in Time or Newsweek some many years ago that pointed out
as fact that most people need a general paradigm for a sense
of success, in the absence of which in trying to be “individual”
they do more harm to themselves than good.

John

Ron
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Member Rara Avis
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21 posted 2007-09-30 10:43 AM


quote:
... just wondering why someone else gets to use "colourful" language and I can't.

Colorful? Your own metaphor, I think, recognizes that words aren't either black or white, but come in vary shades of color. Obviously I can't be very specific (there's a thread in Grok This you might read, though), but generally speaking, moon, any time you use a human bodily function as a metaphor you're probably getting pretty close to the wrong end of the color wheel?

You don't have to just guess, though. If you want to use a word, moon, actually use it instead of trying to hide it behind abbreviations or crude misspellings. The software will tell you if it needs to be edited. If you don't feel comfortable using the actual word in public, that should probably tell you something, too?

Let's get back to the topic now . . .

Huan Yi
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since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688
Waukegan
22 posted 2007-10-01 09:06 PM




Let's get back to the impact
of 70 million Boomers winking out
shall we?

moondogz
Member
since 2007-05-01
Posts 397
Great White North
23 posted 2007-10-02 10:56 PM


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Brad
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since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705
Jejudo, South Korea
24 posted 2007-10-03 09:32 PM


Apparently, I'm not alone.

Sullivan again:

quote:
They can't help themselves, can they? One of the enduring reasons for cultural polarization in America is that the baby-boomer generation keeps reliving the same, exhausted squabbles they've been fighting since Vietnam. Bush vs Gore and Bush vs Kerry were really re-matches of 1968 all over again. If you want one more round of boomer conflict, you couldn't do better than a Clinton-Giuliani match-up, could you? The nastiest alums of that period reunited to fight each other into the ground, with almost four decades of grudges to settle. Today, Rudy accused Clinton of being like McGovern. Yep: that's what we need. Another re-hash of that exhausted paradigm. But, hey, the Washington establishment has already decided the primaries: it's Clinton vs Giuliani. So it's McGovern and Nixon again. Do I have to remind Democrats who won that battle? And why there's no one the GOP wants more as the Democratic nominee than Hillary?


Let's see if I can stir things up a little:

When will you guys grow up?


Larry C
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25 posted 2007-10-04 12:51 PM


Why? What's the hurry?

If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane,
I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again.

Balladeer
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26 posted 2007-10-04 12:55 PM


When will you guys grow up?

Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional. I choose not to exercise that option

Larry C
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27 posted 2007-10-04 11:00 AM


Besides it's never too late for a good childhood!
TomMark
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since 2007-07-27
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LA,CA
28 posted 2007-10-17 05:14 PM


Boomers, who was born between 1946 - 1964, I say, a confused generation.

They knew WW2 made US a very strong and significant country. But did they wonder why there was big struggle in Korean War and a loss in Vietnam war?  Winning the "cold"  war brought the Berlin Wall down  but there comes out a Euro.

And old values and new philosophies

and some, do not even want to grow up..

I'll see how politicians get their serious votes...which means that their golden time will be here..or I am wrong at all?

Larry C
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29 posted 2007-10-17 11:22 PM


TomMark,
Well, speaking as one who lipped off about not being in a hurry to grow up, I can tell you it wouldn't hurt to lighten up a little. It's always easy to point the finger at something or someone else - but the truth is we're all in this together and we've all contributed to where we're at. It's just that some thought being disinterested relieved them of any responsibility. Turns out everyone is human. Turns out everybody makes mistakes. Turns out everybody has a skeleton or more in their closet. So if nobody is left to throw the first stone then I guess that means we probably ought to own where we've arrived and recognize we gotta accept the good with the bad. Because we aren't likely to experience a perfect here here 'cause this ain't heaven, but for now it's as close as we can get.
Peace...

Kalle
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since 2007-10-15
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Finland
30 posted 2007-10-28 02:06 AM


manifold opinions wag eon the subject
TomMark
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since 2007-07-27
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LA,CA
31 posted 2007-10-29 04:27 PM


Dear Larry C, I agree totally with you!!
Each generation has different life experience.

I see no difference between Boomers and 49ers.

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 2007-02-24
Posts 1066
Santa Monica, California, USA
32 posted 2007-10-30 03:12 PM


Born in 1944, at the tail end of one generation and the very beginning of another, I think I was a Beat-Boomer. The arguments were still more interesting than those of Boom-Boxers.  Except for the one about Ayn Rand.

Personally, I intend to grow up on Wednesday, and expect cards.

Jimbeaux

TomMark
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since 2007-07-27
Posts 2133
LA,CA
33 posted 2007-11-01 09:38 AM


I think that the generation being through the Great Depression and WW2 are more down to earth and they built the platform where the boomers are standing on.


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