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Passions in Poetry

"The Evil Has Landed"

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Stephanos
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25 posted 09-27-2007 02:17 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

I'm buying much of what you say Brad, except this:

quote:
There is an argument to be made that he doesn't really want Israel to be destroyed. Not because he is a kind and gentle man, but because the question of Israel is a unifying force in Iran (In the same way, hatred of America is a unifying force in N. Korea.).

What happens when you lose that unifying force?



Don't you think the military prowess of Israel (and those who support them) are keeping Iran (among other nations) from attacking?  It's certainly not the benefits of having a common enemy that's keeping them at bay.


But as to the other things you are saying ... Are you suggesting that we ask alternate questions, not because they are any more important than the ones about Israel and the U.S., but to set him at odds with his own people ... using the media for our advantage?    

Stephen
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26 posted 09-27-2007 04:07 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Look, I think a vast majority of Americsns are going to reasonably come to the conclusion that both Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Supreme Leader of Iran Ali Khamenei have a very abysmal and unacceptable record when it comes to practicing what they preach on human rights, women's rights in particular. It's been well-documented that the latter, especially, has jailed and punished journalists and writers who have openly criticized him, including Mojtaba Saminejad, who in November 2004 was arrested after accusing Khamenei of harming Iran's national security and insulting the prophets, and was subject to beatings and torture for 86 days.

Ahmadinejad is very unpopular in his own country as it is, both for fusing most of his energy toward verbally challenging the United States rather than focus on the domestic priorities of Iranian citizens (vegetable prices tripled there within just a few months for one example) as well as his fork-edged rhetoric such as saying "In the world, there are deviations from the right path: Christianity and Judaism. Dollars have been devoted to the propagation of these deviations. There are also false claims that these religions will save mankind. But Islam is the only religion that save mankind." back in June of this year.

I believe even most Iranians are uncomfortable with Ahmadinejad, and it reflects in the national polls there. Last December, we saw many moderate conservatives (statistics show 40% of Iranians regularly vote for moderate candidates) head to the polls and win national elections for local councils, rejecting the hard-line antagonistic policies Ahmadinejad represents. One of those moderate conservatives, Mayor Mohammed Bagher Qalibaf, won seven of fifteen council seats in Tehran alone. So Ahmadinejad may still have great power and influence, but he is by no means popular either at home or on the world stage.

*

CBS News: September 20th, 2007

Having said that, while I believe Ahmadinejad is crazy and Columbia University should never have invited him to their campus, I also believe it is very dangerous for the media to run on hypothetical situations, and I believe Scott Pelley in that "60 Minutes" interview was irresponsible himself in asking questions based on hard-line hypotheticals. It was more a cross-examination than anything, and regardless of how unlikeable or even crazy the individual is, I found the journalistic quality appalling that evening and, by the end, I swore I felt the "interview" was more about Pelley trying to make a point and say: "See, I can try and be an aggressive journalist!" rather than trying and find out what Ahmadinejad had to say, and that's just another of a series of discouraging signs of the state of journalism today.

*

In saying this, I am by no means defending Ahmadinejad's spewing of propaganda on the program and elsewhere, nor him personally for any matter. What I'm criticizing is how Pelley was clearly not interested in asking the tough questions while maintaining a polite tone and dialogue, and rather was intending to coercively interrogate him from the beginning and making dangerous hypothetical assumptions that our two nations are potentially going to go to war with each other and such.

I'd take this a step further and insist there is a blatant double-standard here as well, where journalism is about seeking the truth and being willing to ask the tough questions, which also means not being afraid to ask our own government and its representatives the tough questions. And recently, time and time again, from the months leading up to the war in Iraq, to every six months when the president moves the goalpost on Iraq while continuing a "stay the course" policy in Iraq and then begs us to wait another six months under the same strategy without a plan for victory, to warrantless wiretapping, the suspension of habeas corpus, etc........virtually everyone in the media continues to roll over and suck up to the soundbytes, such as phrasing a drawdown of troops to a pre-surge level as a "troop withdrawal" that was required to happen anyway because we can't sustain a force of 160,000 for too long, or saying that the surge is what has made the al-Anbar Province much more quiet again, despite the fact the Sunni tribal leader revolt pre-dated the surge by three months because many Sunni tribes rejected the violent authoritarian tactics of al-Qaeda operatives there, or saying that there has been a 75% reduction in violence in Iraq since the surge began despite re-defining the definition of "sectarian violence" down to the difference of being shot in the front of the head or the back of the head.

So, I say this not to mean to digress from the real topic here, but I do believe there is a double standard in our media where it is willing to get all bombastic in interviews against foreign leaders, but when it comes to our own leaders, the media doesn't have the guts to ask our President and Vice President serious, unscripted questions, and I believe that's also very troubling, as journalism should be about seeking the truth regardless of who the person being asked is, in a civil manner.

*

Public Agenda: Spring 2007 Foreign Policy Poll

What I saw in that "60 Minutes" interview was that familiar saber-rattling ritual, just like in the lead-up to the war with Iraq, and that is what scares me especially here. As it is, a vast majority of Americans, who themselves have reasonably said in many other polls that they do believe Iran is a threat of some sort, nonetheless also believe that we must exercise all diplomatic options we have rather than resorting to pre-emptive military strikes and such, including holding direct talks with Iran and Syria, which we simply haven't even done yet.

Just this spring, nearly half of Americans polled believe we must use diplomacy first and foremost, while a mere 8% believe we take military action at this point. And yet, it really feels to me at least that the media is behaving as though talks never solve anything, and wants to rush to that last resort before even trying any other option out; despite the fact most Iranians are reasonable, tolerant individuals who regular prefer moderate candidates as they demonstrated last December, despite the fact that our military is already stretched way thin as it is in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I certainly am not suggesting we sit back and behave as though nothing is going to happen in the next fifteen years, but constant saber-rattling I believe is just as dangerous as inactivity, and while I'm sure we can all agree Ahmadinejad is one not to be taken seriously here who is absent of credibility, I also believe it was irresponsible how Pelley handled that interview, and running on hell-bent hypotheticals will only make us appear more intolerant throughout much of the world.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Brad
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27 posted 09-27-2007 07:49 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:

Don't you think the military prowess of Israel (and those who support them) are keeping Iran (among other nations) from attacking?  It's certainly not the benefits of having a common enemy that's keeping them at bay.


Sure, but the benefits of a common enemy shouldn't be underestimated. Remember the laments in the 90's about the fall of the Soviet Union? But, yes, it shouldn't be overestimated either.

I do think it's a factor though.

quote:
But as to the other things you are saying ... Are you suggesting that we ask alternate questions, not because they are any more important than the ones about Israel and the U.S., but to set him at odds with his own people ... using the media for our advantage?  


I'm suggesting that the media shouldn't woose(?) out. That it's their job to ask tough questions whether to our government or to another's.

If that is seen as an attack on another culture's values, so be it.
Balladeer
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28 posted 09-28-2007 10:37 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Noah, old friend, I thank you for such a well-thought out response and agree with 90% of it....but it still amazes me that you consider the media giving free passes to the Bush Administration when it is so obvious how left their goals and practices are. They have never cut the administration any slack and every comment against them by anyone in a position of power get trumpeted loud and clear.

Whoever said "Don't kill the messenger" should be around today..
Stephanos
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29 posted 09-28-2007 10:47 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Brad,

That's WUSS ... extracted from the word Wussy.  We use it here in the deep south, oftner than most.  I was tempted to tell you that those who can't spell it, usually are it ... but I refrained to retain good relations.  

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wuss


  

Stephen
Brad
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30 posted 09-29-2007 12:58 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

And I didn't think it would be in the dictionary.

Shame on me.

rwood
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31 posted 09-29-2007 07:37 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

In my opinion, it doesnít matter now what Ahmadinejad says, as long as he represents a country that sells oil for Euros and Yen, he will be demonized no matter if he converted to Christianity and changed his name to Peter Paul: which would mean his absolute and immediate death, and possibly that of his entire family, so I donít think heíll be doing that any time soon.

The average person doesnít need a stitch of media info to develop a fear of the dark side of Islamic stricture, or the dark side of anything proclaimed ďTHE light.Ē Eradication is a familiar term along the pathways of most any religion.

While Iíll agree that much of the seeds are ancient and wholly disturbing in rep of holiness, I feel there is a hybrid plant of info in the fields, and its evil roots are nearly as old. Money, honey. and sometimes it might smell like Uranium. Sanctions are necessary, but they never buy sanctity, so why expect our press to show us anything other than a less than holy subject? It might decay our forthright affection for foreign wealth and power? Perhaps thereís more than what meets the all-seeing eye, on both sides, deserving of a proper light or, in the least, more analysis.
Huan Yi
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32 posted 10-01-2007 09:09 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Or they simply want to kill us
because our mere existence is an affront
to a concept of God.


.
Brad
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33 posted 10-01-2007 09:23 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Who are they?
Huan Yi
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34 posted 10-02-2007 08:23 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Brad,

Answer that for yourself
or do you think Iíve suddenly become
a racial bigot?


.
Brad
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35 posted 10-02-2007 09:04 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Not at all. But, let's face it, others are.
Huan Yi
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36 posted 10-05-2007 03:20 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1191257230393&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull


.
Brad
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37 posted 10-05-2007 06:02 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

And again you miss the point. We know this already.

What do you want to do about it?
Huan Yi
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38 posted 10-08-2007 08:16 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Israel could not exist without US; that
critical support is common knowledge.

Israel has already demonstrated both in Iraq
and apparently Syria the willingness to strike
and destroy any prospect of a nuclear threat
to its existence.  Itís my understanding that
to attempt the same as anything other than a
suicide mission for the pilots involved on
an Iranian target would require at least
American logistical assistance in
the form of air tankers. My question to you
would be do we provide that assistance?
Any such attempt even in the absence
of a request for assistance,  (they could
always try and fish their pilots out of the
water after), would probably involve
the United States being informed beforehand.
My question is what should we do with
such a  forewarning, ( and it should go
without saying that such a forewarning
would be assumed by the world)?


.
Brad
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39 posted 10-12-2007 02:19 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
My question to you
would be do we provide that assistance?


If that's what we want, of course. If that's not something we want, of course not.

Our foreign policy should not be determined by Israel.
Huan Yi
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40 posted 10-12-2007 09:27 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


The question then
is what is Israel
to the West?


.
Brad
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41 posted 10-12-2007 10:37 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

The question is what is in the national interest of the United States.

I have heard plenty of Israelis  argue that they could survive without our backing. I don't know. I also don't know why you continue to portray Israel as an innocent victim here when the stance you seem to be advocating is an independent foreign policy for that nation (a policy that apparently means an attack on another nation) AND our complete support regardless of our security concerns.

Israel should follow its own national interest, we should follow ours. If they intersect, we work together. If they don't,  we won't.

Do you think they intersect?  
Huan Yi
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42 posted 10-15-2007 09:35 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Israel could not exist
without a sense of Western guilt.

To which I would respond
that's not the burden
of our or any after
generation.


<
TomMark
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43 posted 10-16-2007 09:53 AM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

If Israel is in God's  hand, then we shall leave it to God to handle...everything is in the Bible.

If it is a common contry like Iruq, why not take the greatest advantage of it? (either for oil or for vote)
Huan Yi
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44 posted 10-23-2007 05:29 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTc0NjIzYTY3ZGM5MjFhY2M1ODIxMTcxYWU2Y2ViMWU=

.


"If people had known how close we came to World War III that day there would have been mass panic. That is how a very senior British ministerial source recently characterized Israelís September raid on what was apparently a Syrian nuclear installation."
TomMark
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45 posted 10-23-2007 06:26 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

so Huan, there is a list of evil-anamy countries in US Government. Shall all the heads be topped over to avoid all the possible wars?
IS this feasible? or do you worry about the lives of all soldiers involved in those actions?

We might need try Kissinger again..
 
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