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Passions in Poetry

Jesus Christ - Public Enemy Number One

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Balladeer
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0 posted 09-10-2007 12:57 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


Hillary Clinton criticized the immigration bill proposed in the last Congress, dominated by Republicans. That legislation would have penalized those who help illegal immigrants. "I said it would have criminalized the good Samaritan. It would have criminalized Jesus Christ," she said.

Associated Press Sept 9, 2007

iliana
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1 posted 09-10-2007 04:50 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

When we lived in Indonesia in the early 90s, I remember a column in the English newspaper there about Hiliary having thrown a Bible across the room at the White House.  If my memory serves me correctly, she threw it at one of her Secret Service guys.  I wondered if that really happened.  I didn't have a hard time believing it.  

My feeling is that she stuck her finger out into the wind to see which way it was blowing.  She scares me period.  At least we agree on Hiliary, Mike.  
TomMark
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2 posted 09-10-2007 11:26 AM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

She is absolutely right.

If one has money,(not in poverty), US government sure will grant him a L visa.

How many people has come to US legally after rubbing a bank?  Those illegal immigrant, most of them, purely want to be out of their poverty. But We like rich "relatives".  

[This message has been edited by TomMark (09-11-2007 10:54 AM).]

Mysteria
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3 posted 09-10-2007 12:23 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

I hate to say this but I have noticed lately, that we in Canada are getting the overflow.  One lady said to me yesterday, "Well you have to give them credit they take all the jobs no one wants!"  Our school system is full of ESL students, and it is costing us a fortune.  Now I am getting it!  I couldn't understand your problem down there until it became ours.
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4 posted 09-10-2007 02:40 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Immigration

US, Canada and Australia are all contries of immigration. The original people living there are not you, you and you. They are called indians and Aboriginals.

As for Immigrants, there are old ones and new ones. The old ones made the selection of Lauguage and built the culture. The new ones try to fuse in and modify it at the same time.


But If you decided to dislike new immigrants, you may have all reasons and I will give you mine.

1. Mecedes lined up to drop students in public school.

2. Parking lot of public high schools are full of SUVS.

3. cash for 800,000.00 house

4. nothing for charity
Balladeer
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5 posted 09-10-2007 02:48 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Mysteria, I know what  you mean. Problems do get a little more evident when they show up on YOUR front steps, don't they?

Iliana, yes, we can certainly agree on Hillary. She reminds me of a hit song of the sixties "Limbo Rock", where the repeated phrase was "How low can you go?" I'm afraid we have not seen that yet....but we will. Hillary is the Queen of Limbo..
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6 posted 09-10-2007 07:16 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Dear Mysteria, I can not understand why "ESL" bothers you. ESL is founded by Government to help children who speaks other lauguage to learn English(exclude Quebec  I guess).

Many of my friends' Children went through one year ESL. Now, One in Harvard, one in Yale, two in Duke, one in Culumbia, two in Standford and two in Berkerly. They will all join to build America in 4 or five years.

In Canada, the same. I believe.

[This message has been edited by TomMark (09-11-2007 01:34 PM).]

Mistletoe Angel
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7 posted 09-10-2007 09:16 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

quote:
Iliana, yes, we can certainly agree on Hillary. She reminds me of a hit song of the sixties "Limbo Rock", where the repeated phrase was "How low can you go?" I'm afraid we have not seen that yet....but we will.  Hillary is the Queen of Limbo..


Yeah, you're referring to Chubby Checker's hit, which is also a novelty favorite of mine and I even have a collectable Gemmy Dancing Hamster that performs that song!

With Clinton's history of flip-flopping and opportunism already well documented before even the 2004 presidnetial campaign, I actually think the most appropriate song representing her right now is rather another Chubby Checker song: "Let's Limbo Some More"; not quite as big as smash as its predecessor, but fitting, like with this lyric especially:

*

"Let's Limbo like we did last month
Let's Limbo like we did last year
Well down and down and down we go
Let's Limbo some more."


*

Of course, Clinton's not the only candidate wrestling with a notorious campaign soundtrack anthem right now. With Mitt Romney I'd say it's "Did You Ever Have To Make Up Your Mind" by the Lovin' Spoonful, with John Edwards perhaps "Egos Like Hairdos" by Ani DiFranco, and with John McCain, it's got to be "Flop Flop Summer" by Kenny Chesney!

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
rwood
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8 posted 09-11-2007 10:10 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

What was their definition of help? I wonder.

Employment? or just giving them something to eat for Christ's sake?

I can't stand to walk by somebody hungry or cold no matter who they are, so I guess I'd be in trouble.
Balladeer
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9 posted 09-11-2007 10:44 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

That's the point, Regina. It was nothing like that at all. Employment? Yes. Right now employers are not even able to get social security numbers from employees. There was a segment on 60 minutes about it where employers validated that fact, stating that while there was a big hoopla about hiring illegals, they were not even able to check to see if their employees WERE illegal, something about intruding on their rights. What kind of a system is that? Also they cannot be refused schooling for their kids, helath care or food stamps. It's like the government is saying that it's illegal to enter the country without going through the proper channels but, if you can sneak in, then you're home free and can have the benefits.

No one would not give a piece of bread or such to a starving person. Hillary, by her statement, wants you to believe that even that would be a crime, or any act of kindness towards another if they turned out to be illegals, which is nowhere near the truth and a despicable tactic. Unfortunately, since she has given you that impression, it apparently works and that's sadder still.
Ron
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10 posted 09-11-2007 12:02 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
... they were not even able to check to see if their employees WERE illegal, something about intruding on their rights. What kind of a system is that?

Think it through, Mike. With identity theft running rampant do you really want a system where someone can call on the phone and find out who belongs to which social security number? These days, your SSN is only marginally less vulnerable than your credit card numbers. It's not just about protecting "their" rights; it's about protect EVERYONE'S rights.

Clinton's analogy was in poor taste, but when push comes to shove, she's right. Adding to the burden of employers is a poor solution.

Balladeer
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11 posted 09-11-2007 01:23 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ron, I can understnd the security issues but placing the burden on employers is the only solution, in my opinion. Where else would you place it? The illegals mainly come here to work and make money. Employment is the constant. How much of a burden is it? Employer types the ssn into the computer, or calls the appropriate gov't office and it is verified or not...finis.

I have to give my social security a number of times - my credit card, my driver's license, bank accounts and I'll swear I had to give it on employment apps in the past. Not sure about your using "someone calls you on the phone" scenario. It's someone standing in front of you that you want to work for asking the question.

We've had senators get in all kinds of trouble for hiring illegal maids and gardeners. How did that happen? If they are not allowed to check how could they be held accountable for hiring illegals they were not permitted to find out if they were illegal or not?

If you want to make the case that employers cannot check the legal status of their employees, then basically you are agreeing, I suppose, with the philosophy that, if they break the law to get in and are successful, they are home free. If you have any other solution than employers - except for doing away with illegal status and just open the borders up to everyone, I'd be interested in hearing it.
Mysteria
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12 posted 09-11-2007 01:41 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Tom Marks,

I actually didnít say that ESL bothered me, in fact, I expect people coming to this country to learn our language, as I would expect to learn theirs should I move to their country.  I would also like hearing them to speak it, as would I do them the same courtesy.  Now, what does bother me is that teaching them puts a huge burden on our taxpayers, and the majorities of those receiving the service are illegal immigrants, not legal, and certainly not taxpayers.  We have, as I am sure you do, two classes of illegal immigrants, the very rich, and the very poor here.   Identity theft is absolutely out of control here anyway.  We have in our local papers constantly people reporting stolen passports, when in fact it turns out, as it was just reported on our news, that is how this particular nationality advertises passports that are for sale to bring relatives over here!  

I also agree with you that this country I live in first belonged to our aboriginals.  These people truly humble me, teach me, and have my total respect each and every day.  Three generation of my family were born here, and compared to friends of mine in the Squamish Band, that is peanuts!  

You and I agree on your list of items under contention though, as where I happen to live, the majority of immigrants in "our" area are from the Middle East and Japan so we find that their limos sure do take a heck of a lot of room at the school parking area, not to mention the mall parking lot.    

It is such a double-edged sword this immigration, as we donít want them coming in, but we sure enjoy them spending their money in our country donít we?


          
Carpe' Diem    
TomMark
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13 posted 09-11-2007 01:54 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Totally agree with you, my dear Mysteria!!!

Have a nice day!



rwood
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14 posted 09-11-2007 02:35 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Of course Hill gives me that impression, she gives me the heebiejeebies nearly every time she speaks.

So it's just employment. Such a law does seem unfair to legal citizens who are employed right beside the illegals, because the employer can't check SSN, but they can check blood/urine/hair for drugs? They can have your DNA, but not your identity! Privacy issues? My blood is private. Workman's Comp? I hate needles. Investment issues? I'll think some more on it when I sober up. (joke)
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15 posted 09-11-2007 03:35 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Sir Balladeer,
Do you want employers to push them back to their original countries or to push them into Robinhoods?  
Not A Poet
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16 posted 09-11-2007 04:23 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

What? Has something major changed in just the last few years? It hasn't been that long since I was part of the work force and for at least ten years, an employer was required to physically see an applicant's SS card, verify it and have the proper paper work to prove compliance. Has that changed recently?

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17 posted 09-11-2007 04:36 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Their jobs, i guess,  Gardener, painter, waiters, farmers, or the people line up in front of Homedepot...not required for SNN.

Next time, if any one who wants to give you a hand for carring grocery, pushing your cart, or telling you directions, you may ask their SNN before you have their service or help.     In case soemday you want a ticket to board the ELECTION.
Ron
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18 posted 09-11-2007 05:26 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
I can understnd the security issues but placing the burden on employers is the only solution, in my opinion. Where else would you place it?

On the government, of course. Some fifteen minutes after payroll taxes are processed the government has all the information it needs to determine if a worker is legitimate. If they want him, they should come and get him. Before he gets another check.

A burden on the employer will simply be another cost passed on to the consumer. And in this case it's an unnecessary and grossly inefficient burden. Forcing employers to jump through hoops is like forcing people to lock their car doors. It doesn't eliminate car theft, it just makes the thief go to another car.

quote:
What? Has something major changed in just the last few years? It hasn't been that long since I was part of the work force and for at least ten years, an employer was required to physically see an applicant's SS card, verify it and have the proper paper work to prove compliance. Has that changed recently?

Recently? Pete, I haven't had a physical SS card since 1968. I've been employed a few times since then?  

Your point, however, is a good one. I have no problem with requiring employers to follow specific procedures and photocopying a SS card is as good a procedure as any. It wouldn't help much, of course, as fake ID is pretty easily obtainable, but if that's the procedure I'm good with it. What I'm not good with is penalizing the employer that follows all procedures and, in spite of the procedures, STILL hires an illegal immigrant. That's what the proposed bill would have done. "We don't care how you do it," the authors of the bill essentially said, "But you MUST stop hiring illegals. Or we're going to punish YOU."

That kind of burden is damn expensive. And, ultimately, futile. Law enforcement is the mandate of the executive branch, not of our employers.

Mysteria
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19 posted 09-12-2007 12:35 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

quote:
Ron: Law enforcement is the mandate of the executive branch, not of our employers.

Exactly!


Obama is looking better to me all the time, but I don't even get a vote.  Here is his statement to the floor on immigration for those that didn't read it.  The last paragraph says it all.

http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060403-floor_statement_3/
iliana
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20 posted 09-12-2007 01:57 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

He's one pretty smart guy, Sharon, that's for sure.  I'm still out on who I'll vote for and probably will be until the day of the election.  But how can anyone not like him?  
Mysteria
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21 posted 09-13-2007 12:52 AM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Iliana, I could never live in the States, because whatever Oprah does, I would do and she is backing this boy big time!  
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22 posted 09-14-2007 12:01 AM       View Profile for moondogz   Email moondogz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moondogz

I would like to be able
to see the Christ, in all my brothers.

                  moon.
 
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