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LeeJ
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0 posted 07-26-2007 06:30 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Think About It This is a real eye opener.

We know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are  particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of America's finest minds and leaders.

A brilliant college professor by the name of Victor Davis Hansen talked about his latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.

Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, "If you
believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time.

Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy
of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'"

"Here is how they do it," Lamm said: "First, to destroy America, turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country."

History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual.

The historical scholar, Seymour Lipset, put it this way: "The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy. Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, and Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans."

Lamm went on: "Second, to destroy America, invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. Make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal, that there are no cultural differences. Make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds."

"Third, we could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort.
The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity."

As Benjamin Schwarz said, in the Atlantic Monthly recently: "The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment, might have been achieved, not by tolerance, but by hegemony (domination). Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentricity (a belief in or assumption of the superiority of your own social or cultural group) and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism (the existence of groups with different ethnic, religious, or political backgrounds within one society) to hold us together."

Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America, enforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."

"Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group (human population) the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic (hostile) to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school."

"My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity (cultural characteristic), and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' (the study of Victims in Criminal Investigations) I would get all minorities to think that their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population."

"My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy, Persia, threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to overcome two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. (Western ROME) "E. Pluribus Unum" --From many, one. (Constantinople was the Eastern part of ROME (Muslums))  

In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus' instead of the 'Unum,' we will balkanize America as surely as Kosovo." (It will be run by poles/by grouping minorities, who end up fighting for the same powerÖthey want to have the power to express their culture, hence you force the groups to argue with each other which break down laws and law and order) therefore depleting the constitution, hence, no longer recognizing the basis on which the U.S. was founded on.  

"Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits; make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. (Politically Correct) Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' (fear or hate of ethentic) halt discussion and debate. Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws.

I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them."

In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow. Profound silence followed.

Finally he said, "Lastly, I would censor Victor Davis Hansen's book "Mexifornia." His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book."

There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference.

Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today. Discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Even barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.'

American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America - take note of California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast.

It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984."
In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace,"
"Freedom is slavery" and "Ignorance is strength."

Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that
our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream.

If you care for and love our country as I do, take the time to pass this on just as I did for you. NOTHING is going to happen if you don't.
Ron
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1 posted 07-26-2007 06:55 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Sigh.

When America eventually ends, as all things seemingly must, I suspect the certain survivors will be the cockroaches and bigots. They both appear to be impervious to everything thrown at them.  
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


2 posted 07-26-2007 07:50 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Okay,

I've thought about it.

I think it's much more furtive than it is made out to be.  First -- grammar is destroyed -- simple things like the failure to distinguish between words like thier, they're, and there.

Whole new languages are supplanted that SEEM to be English -- but full of slang terms designed to shibboleth out the 'older' generation.

Music is subverted by base, carnal, rhythmic patterns that drive our children into a sub-cultural frenzy.

Fashion is up-ended -- so that our youth hardly even look human any more let alone Protestant!  



Does Orkin have Xenocides?  
LeeJ
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3 posted 07-26-2007 08:35 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

ok, I forgot to write, if you don't agree with this...please explain why...

Brad
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since 08-20-99
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Jejudo, South Korea


4 posted 07-26-2007 08:44 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
immigration - both legal and illegal was destroying the entire state of California


What American dream are you talking about?
LeeJ
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5 posted 07-26-2007 09:16 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

awww, you guys, see I knew you were going to do that...
Rebel, you ARE a hoot....

Ron, thanks...I always know I can count on ya...

Brad...what the heck, I'll never tell

Ok, I'll just slip back into this cold and dark place that my mind lives in...  

I thought it was interesting, even if you guys don't, wull, regardless...ahhh heck, I still luv you guys....

thanks, I think?

Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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6 posted 07-26-2007 09:46 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


My parents were Polish immigrants, slaves under Hitler, I was born in Germany.
They were no part of a conspiracy;  I, facing death or worst which was openly predicted,
served my chosen country in war.  When your red blooded born here wave the flag while sitting on the sofa American can show more I and other immigrants like me
will stand down.


.
iliana
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since 12-05-2003
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7 posted 07-27-2007 03:59 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Lee, I read that same article, I think.  The guy has his points.  I'm glad to see everyone is keeping their sense of humor about all the changes which are beginning to manifest...just waiting to hear from the Canadians about the North American Union and also the impact Free Trade has made.  
hush
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since 05-27-2001
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8 posted 07-27-2007 09:12 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

This thread or email or whatever it is you posted is so ridiculous, it should be self-evident why I disagree with it. I think that's why all the answers you are getting are pretty much one-liners. I think it's a waste of my time to argue with this kind of racism and bigotry. It's why I just shrug when my father starts in about "those people." Not worth it.
Balladeer
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9 posted 07-27-2007 10:25 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I disagree wholeheartedly!!!! Ron! Cockroaches are NOT impervious to ME!

What is self-evident, Hush, is your condemnation of the speech. Much easier to just label something as ridiculous and comment that you refuse to comment, I suppose.
rwood
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10 posted 07-27-2007 12:56 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Bunk.

Pure bunk.

Been to California lately?

Damn nice state. They have their share of probs just like the rest of us, but they're not Sudan, are they.

Good grief, people. What's it going to take to STOP being bilingual, in the sense that  we stop talking trash and start talking sense.

In my opinion, this is what happens when people start feeling like they're missing out on something or their comfort zones are being imposed upon.  

The American Dream is supposed to be about Opportunity:

Making something happen from nothing. Establishing one's self despite the challenges and the hardships. Banking on a thought, a skill, a trade. And having the ability to pass it on to one's children, the dog, or blowing every damn dime on a one way flight to the moon if one wants.

If people feel their opportunities have been crushed by a band of foreign gypsies, maybe they should have invested more in themselves, in order to secure a better opportunity, such as education or training. Or maybe they shouldn't have taken their chances for granted.

I refuse to believe or support any evidence that a foreign language or a different culture could stop "The Little Engine that Could."

My momma rocked me to sleep at night, reading me that book, and sang me Bluegrass/Irish lullabies. No one can take those moments away from me.

America was built by immigrants. Fear will destroy it.

Balladeer
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11 posted 07-27-2007 01:45 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

take note of California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. - Dick Lamm
America was built by immigrants. Fear will destroy it. - rwood.


You are falling into the same trap again, Regina.  You speak of the immigrants who built America and he, and others, speak of the illegal ones who climb fences and dig tunnels to get in. Don't you see that there's a difference???? Do you think illegal immigrants sneak in because of their love for America?...or is it more likely they know it's a cash cow, a place where they can make more money that ever before and send it back to their families? I don't fault them for that but where is their allegiance? When legal immigrants receive their papers, they recite the Pledge of Allegiance....pledging allegiance to the flag and to the United States of America. Do they all mean it? Who knows but at least they recite it and were respectful enough of our laws to obtain their residency legally. Where is the illegal's allegiance? If the time of crisis came where America had to stand up and all Americans do their part to defend their country and way of life, would the illegals stand up also or would it be a "hasta la vista, baby" on their way outta here?

Yes, Regina, America IS about opportunity. One could say there is plenty of opportunity for criminals to rob banks, too....does that make it right?

I refuse to believe or support any evidence that a foreign language or a different culture could stop "The Little Engine that Could." Whether you refuse to believe it or not doesn't change it. I suggest you read The rise and Fall of the Roman Empire and see if your mind changes or not. The facts presented there also apply to every known "empire" that rose and fell. The United States will be no different. Fortunately, I don't think we will be around to see it.

If people feel their opportunities have been crushed by a band of foreign gypsies,

Interesting comparison. Let's ask the Italians how they felt about gypsies, or any of the other European nations that hunted them down and expelled them. Why? Because they were only takers who had no allegiance or feelings other than taking advantage of the countries for what they could take away. Perhaps you could have suggest to these countries that they should have invested more in education and training....but not to their faces and not from a close proximity.
TomMark
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12 posted 07-27-2007 03:05 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

A country's fate is in the hand of its government. If the bloody fighting of civil war did not destroy our country then how does a tiny amount of illegal immigrants ruin the land of free?

LeeJ
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13 posted 07-27-2007 03:11 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

being for legal immigration doesn't make you a bigot or racist.  

There are gobs of people in Calif. now...and they say, it is theres, they are taking back Calif. which we at one time took from them, and they are stating the same thing about Texas....and they are illegals..made up of mostly Mexicans but also, Russina, Hatian, and other nationalities. Which are forming gangs and fighting over territory.  

I have no problem with anyone who wants to live here, but I do have a problem with people pouring into this country through unprotected boarders especially since 911, who are undocumented and unaccounted for.  

And yes, been to California...its changed extremely...all bilingual...oh yes indeed we come from a group of people who were immigrants, but they respected this lands laws and learned the language.

I know a gal who is Russian...she has been here only 3 months...her English is better then all the Mexicans in her English class who have been here 3 - 5 years....your talking about a people who just does not care. We must adapt to their way of thinking?  Try going to any other country and getting away with that...are you going to call them racists to?  Because they don't adhear to your way of thinking.  

And I believe what you all fail to see is the fact that most of what this Lamm said, has happened already.  Is he a bigot, or racist, I don't know, but my point is, illegal, means against the law, and once you start chipping away at the laws utter chaos begins.  

Our country cannot take the social deterroration and the ripple effect of what this is causing.

I have a girlfriend, she came to this country from Thialand, learned the language, worked and put herself through college all legally and is now proud to be an American...

Bigots???? I have never been biased against another nationality in my life...but this, this is not good...and shows just how above the law people believe they are...no respect for the law...that is what worries me, more so then the people themselves...

I am not a cock roach neither am I a bigot or racist...but areas of Calif. are shutting down, and the people living there, in those areas have had to suffer for it.

My aunt for one...immigrants go to the hospital for colds, flus, anything that ails them...they can't afford to pay for medical care....unfortunately 3 hospitals during the time of my aunts illness were forced to shut down completely.  

My aunt was old...and by the time they realized she had a malignant brain tumor, she was gone.  The doctors stated, if she had received the right care, in the beginning, when it first started happening, she might have had a chance.

I feel badly that illegal immigrants have had to live the lives they lived...but I also know, that I wouldn't go to another country and expect everything given to me...

In the same, there are people here in the U.S. who should be ashamed of themselves for hiring them all these years to make more money and pay cheaper wages...cause in my mind, they've been treated like slaves.

In the same 10 million people and counting, is going to restructure a lot of our country.  

And what this man Lamm said, has already happened.  

You  have no idea what your doing to this country by allowing this...none?  The repercussions will be devestating...it simply hasn't reached your doorsteps yet...not to the point of taking over your communites.

Take a trip to Arizona, southern Texas or southern Calif. and talk to those communities...find out the real story about what is going on...what they're communities have lost...why, b/c people think that they are above the law.  

and yes, we were all illegals years ago, but we came together under one nation and set up laws to be abided by, including the Constitution...

Many have fought wars since then, and lost their lives for what we have.  And this all started many years ago...b/c we wanted cheap labor...

You want your grass mowed, your windows washed, or work done around your home, hire an illegal immigrant, it will be cheaper and they are good hard workers
but...

its still wrong....it's against the law...regardless....and you can't bend laws to suit everyones problems....when you do, it is and will be your nation's demise and weakness.

Regina, I'm sorry that you are upset...but Deer is absolutely right....and the minute people come out and try and explain what is happening b/c of this, they are called racists and bigots...????? RE read what Lamm said...it is politically inncorrect, and yet, it's ok to come into this country illegally, drain it's resourses and not contribute a cent to this nation.  That is like you opening up your doors to me, a stranger and saying, come on in...and take everything I've worked so hard for...and leave nothing in return...when you have people working against each other and not with each other, you will have big problems when they begin to colonize.  I am genuinally afraid of what is happening here...

Ron, I'm very sorry you have to resort to calling me a cockroach...Reb...you guys are very smart great guys, but when you disagree with someone you can really be very rude and degrading...it's not about racisum, it is about obeying the law that is on the books...about illegal immigration...who else is filtering through Mexico and all our northern boarders?  

This is an issue that needs to be discussed, in a mature and very serious way...this is something we could all learn from...maybe?  Sheesh...to get angry and call each other names is pretty kindergarden?

I agree, there are people who hate these immigrants which is very sad...but there is another side to this that you completely ignore...the word illegal.  That is not being a bigot or racist...not in the least...it's a word that people who are not white use to win their case/argument/or even when they break the law.  
and I for one, am not a racist.  I simply wanted to discuss this...rationally, maturely.

I'm sorry I posted this...I really didn't expect this.  



Ron
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14 posted 07-27-2007 04:20 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Do you think illegal immigrants sneak in because of their love for America?...or is it more likely they know it's a cash cow, a place where they can make more money that ever before and send it back to their families? I don't fault them for that but where is their allegiance?

Wow, Mike. I'll bet Ayn Rand was turning over in her grave as you wrote those words. An appeal to unselfish allegiance from you? That's always a good way to get people to do what you want.

quote:
I suggest you read The rise and Fall of the Roman Empire and see if your mind changes or not. The facts presented there also apply to every known "empire" that rose and fell.

Did we read the same book, Mike? The Rise of the Empire was due in no small part to traditions and policies that supported the very things Lee is condemning. Rome accepted the diversity of its territories and never forced people to change language, culture or religion. Through most of its long history, Rome was bilingual, too, teaching both Latin and Greek in their schools. The Empire didn't fall from embracing diversity, but rather from wallowing in fear and hate.

quote:
being for legal immigration doesn't make you a bigot or racist.

No, Lee, it doesn't.

quote:
..her English is better then all the Mexicans in her English class who have been here 3 - 5 years....your talking about a people who just does not care.

That, however, certainly does make you a bigot. And, frankly, YOUR English in that statement is deplorable.
LeeJ
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15 posted 07-27-2007 05:20 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

How does that make me a bigot?

If I move to another country and I want to become part of the community...why would I wait 3 - 5 years to study.  I'm mearly making a truthful statement....there are 13 Mexicans in her class Ron...they have lived here between 3 - 5 years...she's lived here 3 months...why does she speak better...and why can't she understand them....

and why, when we are discussing an issue, to prove a point you must become insulting and rude?  Does my opinion offend you that much?  If I'm wrong Ron, then lets talk about it and prove me wrong but in a decent way and lets discuss it and try to teach me your point of view.  We might learn something from each other?  You, Reb and the others have some very good points of view, but getting nasty and calling each other names is not going to get us anywhere and I'm here to learn...not to argue or insult anyone...I sincerely would like to discuss these issues....and by the way, if you haven't noticed, I can't spell either...and I apologize, THAT was a typo....

iliana
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16 posted 07-27-2007 05:28 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

I think most of you have ignored all the points the writer has made and focused on the language issue -- there were many more points made.  

A Texas resident myself, I will tell you that every legal Hispanic/American I know is opposed to illegal immigration.  I am not ashamed to say that I oppose illegal immigration either -- that does not make me a bigot to oppose the idea of people disregarding our borders and laws!  If people want their kids in our schools and work in our fields and factories, then they should respect the laws of the land.  I think it's pretty much a moot point anyhow because in a few years, this will not be the U.S. of A.  This will be the North American Union if everything goes the way those in power would hope.
LeeJ
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17 posted 07-27-2007 05:56 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hey Iliana
good to see you, it's been a while

Iliana, can you explain what you mean by this...

quote:
This will be the North American Union if everything goes the way those in power would hope.

thanks
Balladeer
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18 posted 07-27-2007 06:22 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

An appeal to unselfish allegiance? I have no idea what that means or the reference to Ayn Rand....of course I accept that there are worlds of things I have no idea of, either.   Selfish allegiance  would describe my thoughts much better...and also be in line with Ms. Rand.

If we read the same book, Ron, we did so with different eyes. I was referencing Rome itself, not it's territories. The territories were conquered lands. Rome itself took in a large amount of 'refugees' from other lands.

Imports of cheap food, especially from the graneries of North Africa, as well as the growth of large estates run by slave labor now dominated the markets and created mass rural unemployment. Migration into Rome also resulted in a large urban proletariat which was hungry, often unemployed.....

Rome was fractured into sections of different cultures and factions with little allegiance to Rome, driven there only by necessity. When it came time for Rome to defend itself, there were few to stand up.

None of this rhetoric deals with the simple issue, though, that illegal immigrants are, well, ILLEGAL. People want secure borders and an allowance of illegal entrants into the country.

Diversity made Rome great and, ultimately, killed it. Diversity has made the United States great......stand by for further news.
iliana
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19 posted 07-27-2007 06:49 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Lee, here are some links:  
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Security_and_Prosperity_Partnership_ of_North_America
http://video.google.com/video play?docid=-7414624623426287413&q=Prosperity+%26+Security+Program&total=40&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

Lee, I suggest you google the "Security & Prosperity Partnership" -- then read everything you can.  So few people are aware of what is going on.

Ron
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20 posted 07-27-2007 07:01 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
I am not ashamed to say that I oppose illegal immigration either -- that does not make me a bigot to oppose the idea of people disregarding our borders and laws!

No, Iiliana, it certainly doesn't. However, if your opposition is based on the notion that those people are less than you any way, such as Lee's blanket characterization of people "who just don't care," then I think you're standing on pretty shaky ground.

Some folk are against immigrants of any kind, apparently like Mike (since he's arguing that Rome's legal immigrants were a bad thing), some folk are against illegal immigrants (even those, like myself, who think the laws need to be changed), and some folk sadly are just plain against people of different color and culture. The latter, which include most of the arguments in Lee's original post, are blatant and frankly offensive instances of bigotry.
Grinch
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21 posted 07-27-2007 07:24 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


I donít think anyone here is a bigot or a racist; it seems to me that the real issue is that these incomers are illegal and has nothing whatsoever to do with their ethnicity. Iím sure that if the law was changed overnight to make the illegal immigrants legal this whole issue would disappear and everyone would unite as happy Americans.

Or would they?

Perhaps Iím wrong, maybe people just donít want an influx of immigrants, legal or illegal, that donít speak the same language or come from a similar cultural background. If thatís the case Richard D. Lamm could have shortened his monologue somewhat by simply saying,Ē we donít want any foreigners in America,Ē instead of clouding the issue with fudged statements.

Take this for instance:

quote:
no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures.


Apart from being factually incorrect Lamm seems to ignore the obvious conclusion that this statement suggests.

Lamm believes that the problem lies in the languages and cultural differences, that they are the cause of the demise of the nation but that isnít true. Any nation that didnít survive was destroyed by the tension, conflict and antagonism not the difference in language and culture and the root of that tension, conflict and antagonism canít be called anything but racism. Without the catalyst of racism there would be no tension or conflict in fact any nation that didnít display racist traits would survive. Lamm could just as easily, and with more honesty, have said:

no racist nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures.

Lamm can keep all his methods of destroying America, he doesnít need them, all he needs to do is to create a racist nation and oddly enough he seems to be doing a half decent job of it.

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


22 posted 07-27-2007 07:26 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
both legal and illegal was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.


Let me try this one again.

Immigration patterns are strikingly similar. The first generation tends not to assimilate very well, but by the third generation full assimilation almost always takes place.

Almost always because there has been one exception in American history.

Gee, guess who that group might be.

No, they're not from Mexico.

There is an issue here but I don't think immigration as such (Something, even you, Lee, seem to skip over), it's that the sheer number of immigrants in the last forty years have strained the system. I don't know if this is true, I don't think California is a valid example of a place under that strain (I didn't see it, I was there four months ago. Hell, around seventy years ago the problems were with Okies.), but it's the only issue that makes sense if one looks at the history of immigration.

Or, it's the only one that makes sense to me.

But perhaps the real concern here is not Mexifornia but Californication.

(nod to Peppers)

LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


23 posted 07-27-2007 07:26 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Ron, how can you say that, in the original post those things are and have already happened...it isn't against the people but what is being allowed to happen.

Yanno, Ron, I told my son once, cuz the subject came up...I have never slapped you across the face b/c I don't believe in it, and I respect you, but if I ever hear you say the N word, your mouth, will in fact suffer the pain of my hand.

As soon as someone tries to give their opinion, about and against illegal immigration....they are called a bigot, a racist...but that doesn't cut the issue...

I don't mind being challenged...but I do mind be labeled something I am not....
What is going on, is unfortunately against the law....

you can opt to change the laws, but the laws in effect at this present time are to be respected and honored.  My worry is that...and I am genuinly worried...you can't let millions of people into your home and expect not to have severe ripples which will effect you in a bad way...sometimes we have to do what is right by the entire community...and by allowing all these people to disrespect the law...is obscene and disloyalty to home.

I understand your compassion for all of these people...but if you want to be a part of any community Ron, you have to join in and create a whole body...not expect free handouts...and I bet, there are many of them that do pay their own way...but unfortunatly, the majority are not and are draining our systems...and until we change the laws, we can't just ignore them and say..anything goes...we're talking millions of people, not 10 or 20.  This has got to have an impact eventually.  

They are fantastic workers, some really marvelous people...every culture has it's good and bad...but my entire point is...when I posted this original thread...it shocked me, b/c to me, it seems like most of this has already happened and is in the process of happening and I wanted to have some clear cut opinion on it, b/c it really scared me....

I didn't post it to be mean, but to learn...and the moment I did, I was referred to as a cockroach and racist...and I don't like that very much, yanno?

Challenge me, help me learn, but don't call me names, cuz yanno, I could turn around and say, your a bigot when it comes to some facts I laid out and asked for opinion.

I respect your opinions guys, I've learned quit a lot from you in the past...but sometimes you can get really spirited and mean and nasty, because you disagree...well guess what, we're never going to agree all the time...

Ok, can we have a group hug now?  

Please understand, when I post this stuff, I'm asking for your opinions...
LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


24 posted 07-27-2007 07:27 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

iliana

thanks for the links....
hey girl, my thoughts are with you and your family, you'll be in my prayers...please be well in spirit

sending lotsa hugs and well wishes
love
lee j
 
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