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Passions in Poetry

simply posted for thought

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Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


50 posted 07-28-2007 08:34 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


By 2050 it is said that the United States
will be at least 25% Hispanic.  I won’t be around
then to ask the question so I wonder what would
the United States be like now if that were true?
The thing that I most note for example
is that Hispanics are overwhelmingly Roman Catholic
and if they’re like the Slavic immigrants they
wouldn’t be carrying any burden of domestic
and international guilts some other Americans
seem so fond of for themselves and others
that effect national and foreign policies.


.
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


51 posted 07-28-2007 09:03 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

I don’t know the answers to your questions, because each event would cost us more millions to act on than if they just stayed here and became tax paying citizens.



First -- we could have some kind of compromise plan that would bring them to citizenship as a goal -- and get them registered and on the books and at least know who they are -- but, oh, yeah -- the talk-right crowd sort of gutted that with the filibuster in the Senate.
http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/186060.aspx

Guess it's a good thing for them they didn't pursue that nuclear option they sabre-ratttled about so much when they held the majority eh?    

quote:

Yep, we don’t make anything much like we used to.  What to do, what to do, and who to see about it. Remember the saying “I’m gonna go see a man about a dog?” Haha. It's enough to make me wanna go see a man about a whole pack of dogs for about a month, but I refrain, cuz bootleggin' is still: illegal.



Believe it or not -- there are answers Regina -- without resorting to dog shopping.

In Constraint Theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_constraints  one of the first things that we have to decide is what is the purpose of our enterprise.  When we begin to look at our nation as what it actually is -- a collective economic enterprise -- or a super-corporation if you will -- then we need to decide what the ultimate goal of that enterprise is.  (Fortunately for us -- we only have to look back to its' founding to figure that out.)

Basically -- an enterprise can have one of three goals:

1. Make money
2. Satisfy Customers
3. Provide jobs/economic opportunities for a certain group of people.

We know that every enterprise has to do all three things -- but any one of them can be the first priority.

For example -- on Walton's mountain there was a family - owned and operated saw-mill.  We can bet that the foremost consideration when it came time to make decisions was to make sure that certain people were employed.

One of my customers opened her own pharmacy -- she is the only pharmacist that works there regularly -- the decisions that she makes center around providing a job for herself.

A corporate take-over artist, on the other hand -- has the goal of maximizing yields for the shareholders.

If we looked at the bottom line of the companies that decide to off-shore jobs -- the reason isn't because they're losing money or even because of competitive pressure -- it's mostly because the appearance of saving money drives up the stock value.

On the other hand -- the very model of how we should be operating our own industries is right in front of us -- in the factories that have been built by foriegn-owned enterprises.

They keep most of the primary processes in thier own domain -- and ship components un-assembled (secondary processes) to the U.S. for final assembly close to the market where the final product will be sold/purchased.

We should be doing that to SELL products into the countries we trade with -- instead of outsourcing our primary processes (and thus decreasing the base of knowledge and skilled opportunites within our own economic collective) in order to BUY cheaply.  (The question is -- who are the actual greedy hummingbirds -- the skilled workers who have learned trades and watched their careers get shipped overseas -- or the people who want to buy cheap goods at Wal-Mart?)

The decisions that 'America Inc.' should be making must always be to: 'establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity'

and not about maximizing profits for a priveledged few.

Some of the decisions we can make;

A tariff system that punishes systems that don't follow our own rules about environmental protection, standard wages, child labor, and slave labor.

A tariff system that recovers an equivalent amount of FICA and Federal Income Tax based upon the labor content of the product.

A tariff system that levies a premium on products that require significant capital investments (ie- primary processes -- injection molding, metal stamping, die-casting, etc.) and a fuel levy based on how much energy is absorbed by the transportation costs.

Just a couple of suggestions.

Balladeer
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since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


52 posted 07-31-2007 11:15 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Two Iraqi spies met in a busy restaurant after they
had successfully slipped into the U.S.

The first spy starts speaking in Arabic. The second
spy hushes him quickly and whispers:

"Don't blow our cover. You're in America now, speak
Spanish."
TomMark
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since 07-27-2007
Posts 2111
LA,CA


53 posted 07-31-2007 01:37 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

"sheeeee, we are in New-England. speak English English. We don't want to be noticed as illegal immigrants...worse"
LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


54 posted 07-31-2007 02:43 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Quote by TomMark
quote:
LeeJ,
When one talks about the impact of illegal –immigrant on US economy, social stability or reforming of culture, one must use solid figures to present the situation. If you use biased single or three cases to generalize   a problem then it  is very easy to get into the trap of prejudice.


I'm still standing my ground on this issue, until the government decides what to do and my only reason is, it's the law...and you can't bend laws to suit everyone's personal problem...to do otherwise is breaking the law...period.

Tom, I am sorry I missed this, could you explain more...

If I'm correct, I'm thinking your referring to the fact that by not socially adapting, to reading, writing and speaking English, it costs the country so much extra by printing directions in different languages, making different road signs, etc.  Especially since most countries are proven to be going English...on National Language...?  I dunno, not prejudice, just to me it makes makes sense.  
TomMark
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55 posted 07-31-2007 04:02 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

LeeJ,
What worries you is the illegal immigrant---from any other countries. You are right. They are illegal and against American law. Government shall deal with it.  


But is what Lamm and the book “maxifornia” talked about also your concern?  

There are many issues mentioned there

“Mexifornia”  Legal and illegal—Mexican takes over Californian …(is it true?)

Lamm’s destroying America  

1. One language (white English? or Black English?)

2. One culture  (which one? English? Germen? French? Africa? Indian? Christian? Catholic? Quake? Or American Media?)

3. 'Hispanic Quebec' (where? is it true?)

4. Education to new comers (Bush’s “nobody left behind” would achieve it)

5. Minority failure(?)

6. Loyalty (to America, yes. But to which party?)

7. Political correctness (he is in it)

8. Again about book “Mexifornia”  

If Lamm had gut to be true to himself he would have talked about what a strong  America looked like in his mind…. That would be too political incorrect and he would be in trouble…he is scared too. Why?  We are all human ....…struggle to survive from all kinds of pressures,  like all illegal immigrants.
Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


56 posted 07-31-2007 05:23 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


LeeJ,

Are you saying that to be a citizen of America you should be able to read and write English and should not be, or have been, involved in anything illegal?

If so I think that’s very reasonable and as long as you apply that criteria to all races equally regardless of language and culture I don’t think it can be classed as racist.

rwood
Member Elite
since 02-29-2000
Posts 3797
Tennessee


57 posted 08-01-2007 07:50 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Reb~

Do you think we may not ever know who the illegals are? And maybe it might have something to do with the pot they're pickin' their identities from? I mean the illegals had to learn how to do it from somewhere? Graveyard politics?

on the enterprise? All good points and this is sincerely poetic:

quote:
The decisions that 'America Inc.' should be making must always be to: 'establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity'

and not about maximizing profits for a privileged few.



true, but many struggle with all the different languages. Legal, system, military, mathematical, constitutional, etc. And they'll never understand how important their own signature is, let alone their vote.


Grinch~ Great point.

LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


58 posted 08-01-2007 03:12 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

I am saying, illegal immigration of any kind is in fact illegal...and shouldn't be

I think, it will be our demise

and regardless of Lamm's political views...I've disregarded that, and have stated that I believe most of what he says has already come true....

now all of you that believe it's ok to break the law...fine, that is most certainly your opinion....but when you break down the laws...to fit purpose...whatever the situation is...you breakdown strength and order in the community...

but it has gone on way to long...

and yes, as I stated, they had to close down 3 major hospitals in Calif. which speaks volumns about their effect.

and I understand your ideas and opinions about feeling bad for Juan and his family....but it is still against the law, and what scares me is the fact that this deteoriation of our law has been going on for a very long time...very dangerous....to us and for us...

JL
Member Ascendant
since 04-01-2004
Posts 5938
Texas, USA


59 posted 08-01-2007 03:46 PM       View Profile for JL   Email JL   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JL

Great topic Lee J.
“Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”

~Theodore Roosevelt 1907


Great topic Lee J.
My ancestors came here in the late 1600’s.  Some were here much longer than that.
My dad’s family as best we can trace it started in France - Whales – Ireland – Scotland.
But there is Cherokee and Apache in the family line as well.  My mom’s side is pretty mixed up too, German – Italian – and who knows what else.  The difference is they all became Americans.  Their heritage is first the Colonies, the Indian Territories, and finally the states.
Ancestors fought to make this a country with borders and one common language, one main ideal: Freedom, Liberty, and Justice for all.  All who becomes American.  Sure we have laws that allow for immigrants to migrate here, but they should become a member of the most remarkable country in the world.  Not Latinos, or Mexican-Americans, or African-Americans, or Italian-Americans, or German-Americans, but Americans all…  There is plenty of room for anyone who wants to come here and be an American, speak English, and become a responsible member of the American Culture.  Yes American Culture.  Recently I was filling out applications for various things and I noticed that you have to denote “Race”, there is “White, African, Asian, Latin, Indian”, and sometimes “More Than One Race.”  But there is no “American” selection to make.  It’s as if America doesn’t count for a group of people to be considered.  All other nations in the world are represented by “Race” why not the USA?
Sure I understand that there are more than one Spanish speaking Nations, but that is because of Spain, not Latinos.  I sometime wonder if all the Spanish-speaking nations consider all Spanish as the same.  Then there is Portugal.  Go figure.  That’s another one that is excluded, or at least it’s clumped in with European Nations on the questionnaires.  What about Brazil?
Haahaa… We are such idiots to let the world of nations dictate our Heritage as Americans.
I wonder how all those other nations developed?  Think all the people originated from inside their borders?  And why if they are so compelled to be such wonderful immigrant loving nations do they have such harsh immigration laws, and police and military guarding their borders?
We would do well to mimic Mexico’s Immigration Laws.  Oh, and try to get into Canada.  Haahaa…  People are really stupid here in the land of the free.  I guess they have the right; after all, my ancestors fought in the Revolution; to free Texas; the Civil War; the Spanish American War; WWI; WWII; Korea; Vietnam; Gulf War, Afghanistan, Iraq.  Those are my people those are my heritage and fellow countrymen.  That’s where my pride is in America, and those who call themselves American, and those who would die for the rights of even the most ignorant citizen of the USA to be stupid.

Thanks Lee J for a most wonderful posting.
God Bless America and Americans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0

LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


60 posted 08-02-2007 06:47 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

JL
what can I say other then BRAVO...
Now why couldn't I say that?  
I know how I feel, it just never comes out the way it should.

Seriously JL...thank you so much...

Hugs, and love the link,

thank you for stopping by, cuz your opinion counts...

Balladeer
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since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


61 posted 08-03-2007 09:51 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Charles Simic, who spoke no English until his late teens, will be the second New Hampshire poet in a row to serve as U.S. poet laureate. Yesterday, the Library of Congress announced Simic's appointment to succeed Donald Hall

glad he decided to learn English
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


62 posted 08-03-2007 06:49 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
Poetry in my view is a defense of the individual against all the forces arrayed against him. Every religion, every ideology and orthodoxy of thought and manner wants to reeducate him and make him into something else. To sing from the same sheet is the ideal. A true patriot doesn’t think for himself, they’ll tell you. I realize that there’s a long tradition in poetry of not speaking truth to power and, in fact, of being its groveling apologist. I just don’t have it in me.


--Charles Simic
LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


63 posted 08-07-2007 09:08 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

If it weren't for patriots and poetry…there would not be freedom…for in a poets heart there is hope, passion, belief…and worship for devotion, and for a God of tenderness….human beings cannot always think for themselves…because society won't allow it…any ideas going against society's beliefs are scorned and turned asunder, amisdt decline of standards in education…the world is fastly becoming a people who are not able to think for themselves or problem solve.  Most of their information is implemented by television…news media…and not challenged…due to an over powering storm of diversity...

***************************************************

Definition of Diversity
  
The concept of diversity encompasses acceptance and respect. It means understanding that each individual is unique, and recognizing our individual differences.  These can be along the dimensions of race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, socio-economic status, age, physical abilities, religious beliefs, political beliefs, or other ideologies.  It is the exploration
of these differences in a safe, positive, and nurturing environment. It is about understanding each other and moving beyond simple tolerance to embracing and celebrating the rich dimensions of diversity contained within each individual.

***************************************************

But diversity has to be explored by all, and quick changes in culture cannot be effected overnight, it must be a slow process…under one language…otherwise, how can cultural differences be understood, if not discussed.  If there is no communication…there is then no understanding…on cannot be embraced without the other…
Diversity can be an electrifiying tool, but all must come together under one home…in order for it to take a positive stance…

yet diversity can be an evil fear...if forced upon a society...it takes time to change cultures, generations...

cultures can collide...and become overwhelming, intimidating, resulting in animosity...who controls diversity?  Who regulates it's laws, its every integration of one concept?  

anything else will be a tower of Babel...

oceanvu2
Senior Member
since 02-24-2007
Posts 1007
Santa Monica, California, USA


64 posted 11-27-2007 02:18 PM       View Profile for oceanvu2   Email oceanvu2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for oceanvu2

...which is why God invented Babelfish. (Jim)

Hola!  Estoy apesadumbrado que si es ilegal el estado le ofende. Me ofende también. Mi madre es un ciudadano de Estados Unidos que habla solamente español. Mi hermano es un ciudadano de Estados Unidos que vive del dinero de mi madre. Soy el ilegal quién habla inglés y español y hace el trabajo que proporciona el dinero de mi madre y paga su Seguridad Social. Porque nací fuera de la unión en México, ella no me reconocerá formalmente. La desconcierto, incluso mientras que la alimento. Así pues, no tengo ninguna trayectoria a la ciudadanía como miembro de la familia. Considere por favor que el problema entero de la inmigración es avería de mi madre. (What Babelfish did for Laura)

Or, the whole immigration problem is my Mother's fault. (Laura)

Laura Salazar, Jim Aitken, and Babelfish    

[This message has been edited by oceanvu2 (11-27-2007 06:35 PM).]

TomMark
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since 07-27-2007
Posts 2111
LA,CA


65 posted 11-27-2007 04:10 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark


В разі надзвичайних ситуацій, деякі вікі дозволяють перемикати бази даних в режим, коли вони доступні тільки для читання. Інші застосовують політику, що дозволяє продовжувати редагування тільки давнім користувачам, які зареєструвалися до якоїсь довільно обраної дати. Однак загалом кажучи, будь-яку шкоду, завдану «вандалом», можна швидко та легко виправити. Більш проблематичними є непомітні помилки, які вставляють у сторінки. Приклад: зміни в датах випусків альбомів співаків, їхньої дискографії.

У крайніх випадках, багато вікі дають змогу захистити певні сторінки від редагування. Наприклад, захищені сторінки Вікіпедії можуть редагувати тільки адміністратори, які можуть також знімати такий захист. Але зазвичай вважають, що така практика суперечить основній філософії вікі, а тому її, як правило, уникають. Наприклад, англійська Вікіпедія водночас має, ну може, тридцять захищених сторінок — із понад трьохсот тисяч.

[This message has been edited by TomMark (11-27-2007 10:27 PM).]

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


66 posted 11-27-2007 07:48 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

TM,

I think I'm the only one here who can read that.

I like Thai food too.

TomMark
Member Elite
since 07-27-2007
Posts 2111
LA,CA


67 posted 11-27-2007 08:01 PM       View Profile for TomMark   Email TomMark   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for TomMark

Sir Brad, is that talking about learning Spanish in Japan? Are you sure you read the right language?  Are you drinking again?

Have a wonderful day! Dear Sir Brad.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


68 posted 11-27-2007 11:38 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Now that's not fair!
 
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