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Passions in Poetry

Loose Change

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Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


0 posted 07-26-2007 03:20 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.
"Loose Change," a cult hit on the Internet espousing the theory that the U.S. government and specifically the Bush administration orchestrated the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. . .

"Loose Change" makes the shocking claim that the World Trade Center's Twin Towers were brought down on Sept. 11, 2001, by the U.S. government in a controlled demolition. It also contends that the military flew a missile into the Pentagon.Ē

If itís in a movie and against Bush itís got to be true.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290942,00.html


The movie's bound to do well in some parts
of the world.

.
PhaerieChild
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since 08-30-99
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Aloha, Oregon


1 posted 07-26-2007 04:21 PM       View Profile for PhaerieChild   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for PhaerieChild

I've seen it numerous times on our public access station here and after thinking about the way that no one saw a plane (just smoke and fire and a big hole) at the pentagon site, and that the debris field was so limited and no signs of a fuselage or wings or anything else for that matter with only a ten to twenty foot crater, (now you know a 747 is waaaayyyy bigger than that) at the Pennsylvania field site and that there are numerous reports of flight 93 landing safely at another airport I tend to agree that Bush and some of his buddies (like the owner of the Twin Towers who wanted insurance paid out to the tune of 6 billion and got it) orchestrated the whole thing. I trust those guys about as far as I can drop kick 'em.
Sunshine
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2 posted 07-26-2007 04:25 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1336167662031629480

You may want to want this one, as well, John.

Balladeer
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3 posted 07-26-2007 04:48 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I have it on good authority that Jimmy Carter and his Habitat for Humanity gang was behind the whole thing!!! Go figure....
PhaerieChild
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4 posted 07-26-2007 06:02 PM       View Profile for PhaerieChild   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for PhaerieChild

LMAO at Balladeer!!!!
LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


5 posted 07-26-2007 06:49 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

yanno, whenever this was talked about around me, I feared believing it...but I'm here to say, no buts about it, I wouldn't be at all surprised...and yet, I'd be shocked, does that make sense?  

I've been researching a lot, the Kennedy Assasinations...plus Martin Luther King's and it's all coming together for me, including the other thread I just started...
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum6/HTML/001564.html
which made me wanna cry....

and this all started with the Civil War...the old Democrates and the Wigs...?????

Sunshine, thanks for this, it is the same with the Warren Commission...

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (07-26-2007 07:53 PM).]

Huan Yi
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6 posted 07-26-2007 08:16 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Does anyone know an address for a site
that shows the video of the plane
hitting the Pentagon?

So ABC NBC CBS CIA
all mean the same thing . . .
Whew, glad we sorted that out.


.
PhaerieChild
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Aloha, Oregon


7 posted 07-27-2007 12:48 AM       View Profile for PhaerieChild   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for PhaerieChild

http://killtown.911review.org/flight77/building.html  here's one. You can google these all day just google "do you see a plane in the pentagon" and all kinds of things come up.
iliana
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since 12-05-2003
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8 posted 07-27-2007 03:37 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

You all might be interested to know that the producer of Loose Change, Korey Rowe, a two-tour Army Vet (one in Afghanitan, one in Iraq) was arrested a couple of days ago by the military for desertion.  He was released shortly after his detention.  Apparently, people in the know, say the arrest was totally bogus and just an intimidation tactic.  Then again, it makes you wonder about the new Executive Order regarding the ban on peace protestors.  (Do a search for Korey Rowe....interesting stuff.)  Also, John, the Loose Change video is all over the net; it has a 2nd edition, as well, which ommitted infringing video clips owned by some French film company who threatened lawsuit for using copyrighted material.  Loose Change has its own website.  
LeeJ
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9 posted 07-27-2007 07:08 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Yes Illania, I received the 2nd version last evening....

I wonder when people are going to start coming out of their little protective plastic bubbles that they've created for themselves (their vitual reality so to speak) and wake up...?  

I really wish, I could remember back then, to the assassination of JFK, and remember why it was I believed our government had something to do with it...????  I remember taking it so personal...being so sad...remember thinking, "Maybe this IS the President that will change things"  I was only in 8th grade at the time.

I will never forget, my foster dad, I was walking down the street and he was out front working on the house...and I walked up to him, gave him a hug and he was soooo annoyed..."He started saying I feel so bad for you and your sisters and brother"  People in this country are so lazy...they have come to a point where they are allowing the government to do their thinking for them, adding, News Media, sheesh?"  He was really upset...and said, they are taking over and what the U.S. fighted for, for so many years....what so many people lost their lives for was not as it seemed."  It will be our demise.  He mentioned something about the civil war and low and behold, last night a dear friend and I were talking and he explained the Civil War to me....?????? Sheesh

The Old Democrates and the Wigs....I want to learn more...I'm really tired of sitting back and feeling like a dumb flake b/c people make fun of you when you believe this stuff....it IS entirely possible...there have been way to many unanswered privet societies all through the ages...and it makes more sense to me why things are happening the way they are in the U.S.

I just can't believe nor could I ever believe, some of the stuff that has happened?  Not with our technology...and why it's all happening...we've regressed, with crime being so bad...drugs, illegal immigration being acceptable...yanno, I am not a racist, and yet, if you say it's illegal, people get angry with you.  You cannot chip away at laws for any reason...cuz once you do, it becomes chaotic.  

Well, thanks so much to all of you for taking the time to read and at least ponder, be it we laugh together or cry...it's nice to know, that I'm not alone in these feelings of doubt and suspicion that our government is not as it should be.

And thanks for the report on the producer, why am I not surprised...just look at those two boarder police....they're in jail...??????  I just cannot believe that?

Oh, and the handling of New Orleans...what a disgrace to our country, and the integrity of all of us?  It is a shame and sheds light on the fact, if there ever is, another attack...then we will not be prepared.

I have one question regarding loose change, no two questions.  

1.  What about the attacks in London?

2.  does anyone remember the plane that went down in NYC right after 911 but they kept it so quiet.  I mean, really quiet...but it went down supposidly in a rural community, the one where the engine literally blew out of the plane?  I spoke to a pilot about that...he said, the only way that could have happened if there was an implosion, meaning from the inside?  And he just gave me this dead stare.

They will make life so miserable for Mr. Rowe, just as they did for Jim Garrison.  


Hugs
Lee J.
Balladeer
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10 posted 07-27-2007 10:09 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Of course Rowe was just being picked on with bogus desertion charges just as O.J. was picked on for being black and Michael Vick is being picked on for being a rich uppity athlete. Good thing there are "people in the know" to keep us informed. What about the bombings in London? Yep, I suppose Bush could have done that, too.

Just chuckling here.., and not at you, Iliana. It's actually good to see you around here again. And I certainly WILL agree that the Kennedy assassination, which was in MY time, brought up HUGE discrepancies, especially the 'losing of the head' before further tests could be performed.....but there's one thing you have to consider here....

This would have had to have been a very organized operation. That alone lets Bush out. Second it would involve dozens, or even hundreds of people. You mean to tell me that all of these people who would have been involved have all stayed under the radar and maintained their secrecy and silence for half a dozen years? not likely in this day and age. There would have been a breakdown or loose lip somewhere.

Why not simply try to imagine how it could have gone down if the assertions are right? Nobody bothered to do that in the O.J trial either.. It was easier screaming out that Mark Furman was prejudiced and could plant evidence than to sit down and figure that Burman would have had to be driving around every night for who knows how many months with an OJ glove in his car, hoping to be on duty on a night that Simpson's wife would be murdered so he could run over and plant it to frame OJ. Sounds a little ridiculous, doesn't it.....but no one even bothered to think about that. It was easier to just scream "Furman hates blacks!" So what do we have here then? How did this "conspiracy" come about? There is no doubt terrorists flew the planes. Did Bush hire them? Did he set something up with Bin Laden, for example, like 'help me take down the WTC so I can invade Iraq and I promise to come over and bomb the hell out of you and make you hide in a cave for the next six years? No, I think we can assume that the attack was orchestrated by someone other than Bush and was unexpected. So what about the other WTC building that went down? Comments made about a Bush conspiracy and the owner of the building making billions in insurance....how did that go down? I tend to agree that Bush and some of his buddies (like the owner of the Twin Towers who wanted insurance paid out to the tune of 6 billion and got it) orchestrated the whole thing After the twin towers went down, did the owner of the third building put in a call to Bush and say, "We have a great opportunity here! Send over a demolition team and blow up my building and we can make a fortune!"? I find that unlikely. Same thing with the Pentagon. no one saw a plane (just smoke and fire and a big hole) at the pentagon site,  When the towers went down, did Bush think, "What a great time to blow up the Pentagon and blame it on another plane!" at which point he rushed another demolition crew over there to complete the task. Sounds a bit farcical, no? there are numerous reports of flight 93 landing safely at another airport Any of them substantiated? Large planes don't just land with nobody seeing them. Where are the passengers then? Were they all on the government payroll and are hiding out in Bolivia while their families hold funeral services for them? Iliana, you have stated in a previous thread that, since you worked for a construction company, you are qualified to speak of such things so tell me this....how much preparation and work does it take to bring a skyscraper down by demolition? Don't you think that someone working in those buildings might ask somebody drilling holes in the walls and planting explosive charges what they were doing?

Conspiracies will always be conspiracies but, if you want to discuss it in a reasonable way, then come up with some kind of scenario that would fit into your suspicions. If you can, you may have something. If you can't, then let that speak for itself. Unfortunately, most people don't want to go through the thought processes to do that. It's easier to just scream "Furman hates blacks!" or "I trust those guys about as far as I can drop kick 'em. " Maybe we should ask those 'people in the know'. They seem to have the answers....


iliana
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since 12-05-2003
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USA


11 posted 07-27-2007 05:15 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Mike, I hardly think comparing Korey with O.J. holds any water -- maybe alot of hot air....hehehe.  You will note that Korey was released.  He is a two-tour VETERAN.  

As far as eyewitnesses to things....I'm scratching my head and wondering whether you have really seen all the video tapes out there on the internet or if you have, whether or not you were paying close attention.  

Oh and, Mike, thank you for the "nice to see you" -- nice to see you, too.  Don't know how much I can really hang around as we are planning a trip soon to see my son graduate from boot camp -- and yes! I am worried.
Balladeer
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12 posted 07-27-2007 05:35 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I salute your son, Iliana, and understand your concern. I wish him the very best.

No, you misunderstood. I wasn't comparing Korey and OJ. I was comparing cases in which facts and logic come in a distant second to unsubstianted personal opinion.

I'll repeat, 'Try to put together a scenario where a Bush conspiracy to take down WTC and the Pentagon would seem possible'.

With apologies to Sherlock Holmes, "Eliminate the possible. Whatever remains, however probable, must be impossible"....or something like that
iliana
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13 posted 07-27-2007 06:42 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

How about an alliance with Saudi Arabia, Mike, where the old Saudi princes could get their fingers in the Iraqi oil pie, depose their enemies, ally with the Sunnis against their biggest threat ever, Iran?  That's as much as I would want to speculate, sorry.

Thanks for your well wishes for my son.  
Balladeer
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14 posted 07-27-2007 07:38 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Not why, Iliana.....HOW????
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


15 posted 07-27-2007 07:57 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

ďHow about an alliance with Saudi ArabiaĒ

The simple historical fact is the Allies
could not have defeated Hitler without Stalin
whose country lost 25 million in World War II,
(the Soviets lost more killed at Leningrad than
the Western allies lost  in the entire war).

The United States is not and never was so powerful
in the real world that it could go it alone.

.
Grinch
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16 posted 07-27-2007 08:03 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Michael,

Iím sort of with you on this one, I say sort of because I believe there may be some things that have been covered up and misreported, probably to hide mistakes and failings surrounding the incidents, but I believe in essence what we have been told happened did happen.

The biggest anomaly, the missing plane in the pentagon footage, at least to me seems to be the easiest to debunk, all you need to do is look at the technology taking and storing the images. The security footage is from a CCTV camera above a security gate, the camera, and recording device, is designed with two functions in mind. The first is to take the highest resolution picture possible, the second is to store the maximum length of footage and anyone whoís messed around with video or graphics can tell you that those two things arenít mutually compatible. High-resolution footage equals big file sizes and big files eat disk space and reduce the amount you can store. To get around that problem CCTV cameras are generally made to take fewer frames per second than your average video camera and the software storing the image uses a neat little trick to minimise disk space. To reduce the size of video footage the software doesnít redraw the whole image, it only redraws the part of the image that changes, the concept was designed to reduce video file sizes for transmission on, of all things, the internet. You can see the effect of this if you view a video image being delivered from a cheap camera down a slow Internet connection, the image pixelates (that strange block like quality) around the portion of the video where thereís movement while the background remains clear. In effect the background is fixed and only the moving portion of the image changes. Once you add both technologies together you end up with no plane in the background or at best a small blur where the software is confused by speed and changes a few pixels before reverting back to the original image.

By the way all of the above may or may not be true, I may have made the whole thing up, call it my non-conspiracy theory if you like.


"There's a blaze of light in every word
it doesn't matter which you heard
the holy or the broken Hallelujah"
Leonard Cohen

Brad
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17 posted 07-27-2007 08:03 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Cultural myopia.

quote:
I have it on good authority that Jimmy Carter and his Habitat for Humanity gang was behind the whole thing!!! Go figure....


Mike,

I know this is a joke (and that I have to point that out is a symptom of the problem), but D. Dsouza has made the same argument in a way.

Cultural myopia.

Balladeer
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18 posted 07-28-2007 08:48 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Thank you, Senor grinch. If you made that whole thing up you must be the greatest salesman alive...or at least the most convincing.

For those who doubt the plane, I'd like to see what scenario they can present which would explain that damage and that timing. Thing is, they can't. They just FEEL something is wrong there....

Actually, Brad, I don't entirely disagree with him. I think terrorists WERE emboldened by the weak responses of both Carter and Clinton to terrorist activities. Bin Laden stated himself in a video that they were so encouraged by the lack of response by the US in the USS Cole incident that they decided to go on with the 9/11 plan.

But, then again, was that really Bin Laden or could it have been dubya in disguise? Anybody ever seen the two of them together? Hmmmm.....

[This message has been edited by Balladeer (07-28-2007 09:21 AM).]

Grinch
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Whoville


19 posted 07-28-2007 08:23 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
I'd like to see what scenario they can present which would explain that damage and that timing. Thing is, they can't


Of course they can Michael Ė theyíre writers, thereís no end to their (and my) imagination!

How about this:

The plane was hit by one or more stinger missiles fired from M1097 Avenger mobile launchers and\or a FIM-92 man portable stinger before it impacted the Pentagon. The plane exploded short of the Pentagon and the debris, and and a further Stinger, impacted with the Pentagon and did the damage not an intact 757.

The government doesnít want to have to tell people that it shot down a civilian aircraft causing the deaths of all the passengers and managed to blow a sixteen foot hole in the side of itís own building. Which is why itís keeping tight-lipped about the whole thing and which is also why the only true witnesses, the people who fired the Stingers, arenít breaking any records coming forward either.

Ask youself a couple of questions, would you expect the person in charge of protecting the Pentagon, in full knowledge of the possible threat, to arm the air defense system? Would you also expect a stinger battery to attempt to bring down an aircraft on a collision course with the Petagon?

So why didnít they? Could it be that they actually did and were fairly successful.

If the above is true Iíll eat my hat because I just made it up but it is possible and plausible, itís also possible that the above explanation will be on some conspiicy web page this time tomorrow.

By the way Iím a lousy salesman, the video stuff I posted earlier is all true.

Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


20 posted 07-28-2007 08:44 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Maybe they were simply too afraid of
and intimidated by the possibility of making a mistake
like the Marines in Beirut in 1983;  a Marine grunt outfit in WWII
would have had no problem blowing that truck away
before it ever came near the gate.

Remember Pearl Harbor . . .

.
Local Rebel
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21 posted 07-28-2007 09:29 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

I think terrorists WERE emboldened by the weak responses of both Carter and Clinton to terrorist activities.



Wow Mike -- you seem to have skipped a couple of Presidents there.  By your logic --that they weren't emboldend by Reagan and Bush 41 -- they should have been scared to death of W and waited for a Democrat.
Grinch
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Whoville


22 posted 07-28-2007 09:48 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
Remember Pearl Harbor . . .


I donít believe Iím defending a half-baked notion that took me less than a minute to come up with, but here goes.

Would the Japanese have got away with it twice? How about three times and after sending a telegram informing the armed services of their intent?

I agree I probably wouldnít have pulled the trigger on the first plane, I may have on the second but I definitely would have on the third. The plane was travelling at rooftop height heading straight for the Pentagon within an hour of the first two attacks and the people on the ground were expecting an attack. Why wouldnít they shoot?

8:46:40 a plane crashes into the north tower
09:03:11 a plane crashes into the south tower
9:24: the FAA notifies NORAD that flight 77 has been hijacked
9:26 the FAA grounds all civilian aicraft  
9:37:46: flight 77 crashes into Pentagon without being shot at

rwood
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23 posted 07-29-2007 09:42 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

If the building had fallen sideways, causing a mile long crush of who knows how much more death, would there at least be some satisfaction that "something" made sense about 9/11?

Balladeer
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24 posted 07-29-2007 10:23 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Reb, Carter is well-known as the weakest President we've had in our lifetime (barely edging out Johnson) and Clinton did nothing about the first WTC bombing attempt, the embassy bombings or the USS Cole, with the exception of blowing up an aspirin factory and refusing to accept Bin Laden into custody. I doubt seriously you can say the same of Reagan or Bush senior.

Regina, I have no idea what your last comment means. Could you explain, please?
 
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