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Passions in Poetry

Buried Bombs and Other things (My Mistake)

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Huan Yi
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0 posted 04-05-2007 07:36 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


If an American reporter is embedded with a group of
Iraqi insurgents who have set up an ambush of American soldiers
and he is in a position to warn those American soldiers
to what or whom  is his first responsibility?


.
Local Rebel
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1 posted 04-05-2007 07:44 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

And these Iraqi insurgents are somehow proposing to attack with birth control devices?
serenity blaze
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2 posted 04-05-2007 07:50 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

They are pretty scary.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://instructors.cwrl.utexas.edu/freeman/files/IUD%255B1%255D.gif&imgrefurl=http://instructors.cwrl.utexas.edu/freeman/sgmorningafterpill2& h=262&w=165&sz=3&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=A9B3GOY5qP45DM:&tbnh=112&tbnw=71&prev=/images%3Fq%3DIUD%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4GGIH_enUS210US211%26sa%3DN
serenity blaze
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3 posted 04-05-2007 07:51 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

and so was that link!
Drauntz
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4 posted 04-05-2007 08:44 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

the first responsibility is the reporter himself. To live with guilt (which could make him kill himself later if there were tens or hundreds death) or die of unrecognized honor. if the reporter is CIA, then it needs another question to get the answer.
Balladeer
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5 posted 04-05-2007 08:48 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

For any decent human being, it would be the responsibility to warn the soldiers. For reporters, it would not. Why would I say that? Because that's exactly what they did for years under Hussein rule. They saw the atrocities that were being committed and said nothing for fear they would be kicked out of Iraq and not be able to keep their position there. This was self-admitted by them years ago.
Local Rebel
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6 posted 04-05-2007 09:00 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I think the acronym you were looking for John was IED

Improvised
Explosive
Device

Sorry -- but "IUD's and Other Things" as the previous title tickled my funny bone too much
as I imagined the insurgents using the IUD's for slingshots against our Goliath army.

Drauntz
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7 posted 04-05-2007 09:03 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz



if the reporter has ten children, I will not blame him if he keeps quiet. I never expect that any human being to be holy.
Huan Yi
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8 posted 04-12-2007 04:34 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

A very similar scenario was presented to Mike Wallace
on a public television program and he was adamant
in his argument that the reporterís first duty was to the story
and so he should not give warning.  A Marine officer
in the same discussion advised Mike that the reporter
should not then expect soldiers to risk their lives for him.

.
Drauntz
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9 posted 04-12-2007 11:13 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

1. general rule vs emergency
when south tower was falling, shall a reporter stay for his duty or run for his life?

2. Reporter under emergency      ----life...humanity...brotherhood...belongs(groupings
based on country, ethnic group..etc) the instant response of his priority...

3.shall reporters live for the lives on the couch or for the lives on the front line? (reporter is different from CIA agents)

[This message has been edited by Drauntz (04-13-2007 09:50 AM).]

Huan Yi
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10 posted 04-14-2007 02:25 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


The urge to protect yourself and your own
is what Stalin, (for example), would rely on . . .

I donít know that that tendency
rises to the level of laudable morality.

.
Essorant
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11 posted 04-14-2007 03:39 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Are the soldiers' lives more important than the life of the reporter?
Sunshine
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12 posted 04-14-2007 08:57 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Sometimes it's not really fun to try to catch up on mistakes in the making, carried through, then obliterated by the time zomie that is allowed to catch errors, without some kind of explanation....

Geez....

But overall, I suppose I'm one of those people who cannot conceive of taking a job against the government and life which has allowed me so much.  Now, if I were an undercover agent and expected to bring back the knowledge of what might happen in any given situation, I would be as good as the gossip in any office, hoping to only increase any mission that the bosses had in mind to begin with...all the while, knowing, or hoping not to know, that I was expendable, overall.

What did the cold war bring us, but more war?

What does the acts of an undercover agent beget us, but more gossips?

And why in the heck do I believe that honor, commitment, and respect, can overcome?

Gads, I must be supremely idiotic in my extremes that goodness and kindness can overcome.  

Oh, I forget....this is the Alley.

I probably forgot to take a pill, too.

Thanks for allowing the mild explosion.
Drauntz
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13 posted 04-15-2007 02:10 AM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

The instinct of staying alive and self-protect is not taught but is programmed in every biological body.
However teaching of all kind...may make someone think that something else is more important than life.
Love, also can make people giving up life for others but in a very limited way.
Anyway, to stay alive is not selfish but if at the price of other peopleís life? Öneed to be justified by individual consciousness.

I can die for my relatives, friends and all children. But I do not blame others if they canít.

[This message has been edited by Drauntz (04-15-2007 03:41 AM).]

Balladeer
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14 posted 04-15-2007 08:39 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

An excellent reply, sir,but I think you and Essorant have gotten away from the question posed.

If an American reporter is embedded with a group of Iraqi insurgents who have set up an ambush of American soldiers and he is in a position to warn those American soldiers
to what or whom  is his first responsibility?


The question is not dealing with the reporter's life nor whether or not his life is more important than the soldiers'...it appears to be dealing with the reporter's professional (or even moral) responsibility.

Apparently if a reporter had received permission to be embedded in a terrorist group, his organization would have to give assurances that he would be neutral in every way, reporting the events but with a promise of non-interference. I take John's question to ask which would be more important to the reporter and his news agency...their vow to the terrorists not to interfere in exchange for their acceptance or the lives of soldiers they could save by going back on their word.

To me it seems like a no-brainer - but, then, most reporters seems like no-brainers to me as well.
Drauntz
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15 posted 04-15-2007 05:43 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

Sir  Balladeer , John himself changed the direction.

As to reporter
1.His boss wants him to get all the information...means: money and fame.
2. The military wants him to signal the warningÖ to save the life and to win the war.
3. the reporter has to make a decision himself regardless of his routine responsibility. It is emergency.
4. If I were the reporter, I would save those boys life with my own life.

If there is no life and death involved,  then hell to this question.
Huan Yi
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16 posted 04-15-2007 05:44 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Drauntz


So you rely on others
to do that other dying for you.

Let there be help
To all young men and now women
in harm's way.

There is one thing I am glad for
is that the soldiers from Iraq will not be painted
red as were the soldiers from Vietnam.
That strikes me as evidence of better intelligence
than we had then


.
Drauntz
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17 posted 04-15-2007 05:52 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

Dear John, thank you for the instant reply.
I thought I was very rude to use the word "hell" so I came back to change it. Here I read your words.

I do not understand what you said. will you please explain it?
Denise
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18 posted 04-15-2007 05:57 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Drauntz, I think you misunderstand the hypothetical situation presented. It was not a question of the reporter giving up his life. It was merely a question of priorities...should his loyalty come first to his employer and his duties as a reporter or should they come first to the soldiers in danger of an ambush.
Drauntz
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19 posted 04-15-2007 06:12 PM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

Denise, you are absolutely right...the priority.

I wonder if he got weeks to make the decision or 2 second to have the response.

So John, how much time did the reporter have to  give a thought then to make a decision? does he have a chance to read our discussion?
Drauntz
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20 posted 04-16-2007 12:36 AM       View Profile for Drauntz   Email Drauntz   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Drauntz

My dear neighbor's son was in Iraq for two years. I was so worried. but do I  understand the mother's feelings? no. never.
three month before he went to Iraq he met a girl and three days later he got married with her thinking that he might have no chance at all to get married. When he visited his grandpa, grandpa asked him about his new wife. he could not say her name...he forgot. He had to take out the marriage certificate from his purse to read out her name to his grandpa. He later sent certain amount money to his new wife monthly while she was sleeping around. When he came home in first break his mother told him that if he wanted to escape from the war he could go to Maxico because they had relative there. The boy said "mom, no. my buddies are there." He was 20 then. Many of the solders are young and they do not know what life is yet. They may have never had a girl friend. they may not have ever in  love with somebody yet. So give them a chance, you reporter! or too hippocratical the question.
Ron
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21 posted 04-16-2007 02:13 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Apparently if a reporter had received permission to be embedded in a terrorist group, his organization would have to give assurances that he would be neutral in every way, reporting the events but with a promise of non-interference.

If the reporter has made a promise he either canít or wonít keep, I donít think we really need any additional questions to determine the state of his ethics.

Promises should not be lightly made. Having been made, however, they canít be broken simply because unforeseen consequences develop. I think weíre obligated to keep all our promises, not just the ones that turn out to be easy.
Balladeer
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22 posted 04-16-2007 06:04 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

...which I'm sure would be a comfort to the parents of the dead soldiers, that the reporter kept his promise to the terrorists.
Grinch
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23 posted 04-16-2007 08:06 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


I think the first thing you have to ask is whether there's a benefit in having embedded reporters on either side. If the answer is yes then I believe they have an obligation to remain neutral and impartial reporters of what they see and that they do nothing to affect the outcome either way.

Justifying this detachment from events isn't easy but I believe actually being the reporter would be even less so, first he has to put his life in the hands of the insurgents, then he risks death at the hands of his countrymen who are trying to kill the insurgents and then he has to accept the possibility of watching his countrymen die without interceding.

Once acceptance of the concept of a reporter that acts, to all intents and purposes, as if he\she wasn't even there the ethical dilemma disappears somewhat. Faced with the question - if the reporter really wasn't there would any benefit be gained - the answer would have to be that any deaths would still occur but we would lose the benefit of the reporters observations. Which takes us right back to where I started, the thing to ask is whether there's a benefit in having embedded reporters there in the first place.

You can of course extend this ethical question because every time you see footage of a house fire or a flood or rescuers searching through a collapsed building for survivors there's always has to be one person who's holding the camera who could be manning a hose, rowing a boat or helping to dig out a child.

Ron
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24 posted 04-16-2007 11:20 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
...which I'm sure would be a comfort to the parents of the dead soldiers, that the reporter kept his promise to the terrorists.

Is that the goal, Mike? To comfort the parents? If so, then the solution seems pretty simple to me:  Let's not send the soldiers into harm's way. Goal accomplished.

If, on the other hand, you believe there are goals beyond that of comforting grieving parents, if indeed there are important goals in conflict with that of the parents, then we have to agree that sparing the parents their pain can't always be a deciding factor. It clearly wasn't the deciding factor for the Commander-in-Chief. Nor should it have been. Why, then, should it be the deciding factor for our hypothetical reporter?

Grinch, you make some good points. Honestly, my initial reaction was that such promises should never be made. Promising to stand by while people are killed is little different than promising to kill the people. While you're right, the soldiers would be just as dead if the reporter wasn't there as they'll be if he remains silent, I'm not convinced that such "logic" should necessarily hold sway. What if we replace the insurgents with a faceless gunman wandering the halls of Virginia Tech? Is the potential insight we might gain by having a reporter tag along worth the moral cost we would all have to bear for the reporter's silence? Somehow, I don't think so. In accepting the benefits we condone the practice and, in my opinion, pay much too high a price.

Insurgent, enraged shooter, or just a back alley mugger, I think we all have a vested interest to raise our voice when tragedy can be prevented. And that means we have no business making any promises that we won't.
 
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