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 Who's Afraid of the Big, Bad Fox?   [ Page: 1  2  3  ]
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Passions in Poetry

Who's Afraid of the Big, Bad Fox?

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Local Rebel
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50 posted 03-28-2007 07:52 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Well Mike thought I was cute!

Please -- someone -- explain in detail how the Iraq war is protecting us from terrorism.
Local Rebel
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51 posted 03-28-2007 08:02 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

Well, it seems to have worked so far then hasn't it? As long as the sheet-head Islami-nazis are up to their collective ass in 'gators (no offense Mike) they may not have much oportunity to swim over here and blow us up.



You mean -- Hamas was too pre-occupied with the Iraq war to create havoc with Isreal in Lebanon?
Not A Poet
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52 posted 03-28-2007 09:35 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

How far did they have to swim? Your metaphor, not mine. Or did you not intend it metaphorically? Hard to tell with some of what you have come up with lately.


Huan Yi
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53 posted 03-28-2007 09:44 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Iraq is sugar to the fly
Or perhaps some would prefer New York


.
Local Rebel
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54 posted 03-28-2007 11:46 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

How far did they have to swim?



So then you're saying the oceans do protect us?

Not A Poet
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55 posted 03-29-2007 09:34 AM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

"Read my lips." That whole swim stuff was yours. Remember the silver things? We already know that works for tehm. What protects us is keeping them too busy on the defensive (fighting on their own ground) to form an attack. Look, it appears all we can accomplish here is throw semi-comic ridiculous remarks back and forth. I actually have better things to do. I think I'll step away until you hae something worthwhile to say.

rwood
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56 posted 03-29-2007 10:43 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

I once saw a big white garage shed on the side of the road somewhere out in the country. The owner had spray painted giant words, in red, all across both sides of it:

“Private Property. Keep out you thieving bast@rds!”

I’m sure he wrote that out of frustration after someone had already broken in. But if someone really wanted to break in and steal from him, they’d probably just get a good laugh out of the owner’s angry words. They’re on a mission to take whatever they can find of value, even if it’s just to prove to someone else they can do it. I bet they don’t even care about the firepower behind the threat. That just adds to the challenge. The rest of the warning read:

“I will shoot your a@@.”

Sad thing is; it’s probably his neighbor, who’s probably told him how he saw a band of gypsies come through, but didn’t think anything about it. There’s always talk about town between people that cultivates hatred of foreigners. All it takes is one mean spirited local to plant a seed, even if he’s the one terrorizing his neighbor’s sense of ownership.

It helps him if the owner of the building hates anyone who looks “strange” or foreign, though now the victim is plotting revenge. He’s even bragging about burning down the new neighbor’s barn, because he’s foreign.

I agree. The world is getting smaller, and it seems we’re not getting any smarter. No one can ever dismiss 911. It happened. We were all seized with terror and heartbreak. Mission accomplished. But how do we outlive and overcome? Everything we’ve put into play was always an option or already enforced, before they ever attacked us. Invasion, air assault, ground forces, bombs, borders, spies, cavity searches, and a bunch of other stuff now increased for our security. What’s decreased? Our sense of security.
Balladeer
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57 posted 03-29-2007 10:48 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, LR, at the risk of incurring your cutsieness (which is actually one of your more endearing qualities   ) let me explain it to you in the way I - and many others- believe and then you can have fun with it, too. I'll write it in cutsie-ese so you can better understand.

Once upon a time there were a group of bad fellows who decided that the United States was a big, bad wolf who needed to be brought down so they went on a crusade of attacks over a period of time. They attacked American interests, enemies and even a Navy ship. Encouraged by the lack of desire on the part of the wolf to even scratch the itch these little sand fleas caused, they decided to go for the big one and the walls came tumbling down. This was finally too much for the wolf to ignore and troops were sent to the lands of the evildoers to put them out of business.   The sand fleas had set up a nice little sanctuary in Afghanistan with a government who, when taking time out from butchering their own people, supported them. The wolf huffed and puffed and blew them off their Ozymandius-style perch and pursued the evil ones, who scattered throughout the mountains and sought safe haven in some other sand castle. Where could they go?...a dilemma indeed. But wait! There was a kingdom nearby which professed hatred for the wolf as strongly as they did. This kingdom was as ruthless towards it's peoples as the fallen one was, even gassing them by the thousands at the king sand flea's whim. Not only that, this leader had proclaimed to the world that he possessed weapons even more powerful than box-cutters! Who could ask for anything more? The big, bad wolf was in a quandry. The nogoodniks were on the run, stopping only long enough to make periodic tapes for Al-Jazeera announcing that there would be many more attacks on the land of the fallen WTC. They needed sanctuary and they needed means to continue their meanness. Surely they could strike up some kind of deal with their fellow wolf-hater with the billions of sand dollars at their command. After all, this flea had thumbed his nose at the United Nations for years. He wouldn't let the wolf at them and they could set up shop once again where they would not be inconvenienced by ariel assaults, cruise missiles, infantry division, and all of those little things that make their job a little more difficult than need be. Not only that, they could shop at this Wal-Mart of weaponry, home of falling bombs and prices. Barring any cooperation from this new safety zone, there would still hundreds of miles of mountains and caves where they could sit and watch CNN report the non-progress of their capture on their laptops.

Still reeling from the videos of bodies falling dozens of stories to their certain deaths, the wolf made the decision to change the management of this potential Club Med for terrorists and did so. Was he right? No one can really say, can they? All we really know is that the terrorist sand fleas have been on the run, hunted down in many countries, ever since. All we know is that the turbanned big banana has not been seen since. All we know is that, in the six years since, his threats of future maniacal mayhem straight out of his Death to America playbook has not occurred.  What does Iraq have to do with future WTC-type actions? Maybe nothing. Maybe everything. The terrorists ain't talking....they're too busy running and convincing their kids to blow themselves up.

It would be an interesting fairy tale......too bad it's not.


Balladeer
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58 posted 03-29-2007 11:10 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Cutesy would have been asking how the Democrats could possibly legislate a defeat in a war Bush already lost?

I have an interesting little outlook to inject here, Ron. Let me preface it by saying it it not necessary my way of thinking and I neither support or disclaim it....just telling it like it is.

A long-time customer of mine is a doctor.  He was a captain in the Army in Nam in a hospital in a small town a few miles down the road from DaNang.  Last month he and his wife returned there for the first time since the war. He had taken pictures of the town, hospital and residents when he was there and was looking forward to seeing how much things had changed and if he may find anyone still around who had been patients of his. Needless to say, the place had changed over the years. The city was huge (by their standards) with a lot of modern architecture, new constructions under way and a bustling economy. He toured the hospital and, although he found no one on his visit he had  connections with from his past there, the people were captivated by the photos of the hospital and town from the 60's. Everywhere he went he was treated as royalty. Everywhere he went he was thanked. He ended his conversation with me saying, "There were those  who said Viet Nam was a defeat for the United States. They are wrong."

Success and defeat can mean different things to different people, perhaps?

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank a soldier.

Ron
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59 posted 03-29-2007 01:48 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
It would be an interesting fairy tale......too bad it's not.

Sorry, Mike, but it indeed turned into a fairy tale the minute you tried to tie Al Qaeda to a pre-invasion Iraq. There's no evidence they were there and plenty of evidence that they weren't welcome there. Bush may not have invited Al Qaeda into Iraq, but he certainly opened the door for them.

The public record seems pretty clear to me. We didn't invade Iraq in hot pursuit of terrorists. We didn't invade to save the Iraqi people from Saddam Hussein. And in spite of strident assertions to the contrary, we didn't invade Iraq to establish a democratic foothold. Those claims are just revisionist history. President Bush told me and the rest of this country, in no uncertain terms, that we needed to go to war to prevent the use of weapons of mass destruction. We believed him. Three thousand American lives later, twenty-four thousand American wounded later, and we still haven't found any WMD.

I see absolutely no correlation between the war in Iraq and the absence of successful terrorist attacks in America (you have to stipulate successful because there've been some few foiled attempts, which we shouldn't have seen if all the terrorists were so busy in Iraq).

quote:
"There were those  who said Viet Nam was a defeat for the United States. They are wrong."

I'm glad to hear Vietnam is economically doing well today, Mike. But I guess I'm missing your point. The American goal in Vietnam was to halt the spread of Communism. We utterly failed in that goal. I honestly don't know how anyone can stand back thirty years after the fact and say, "Gee, they're not starving or anything, so maybe we did okay after all."

Wikipedia: "Upon taking control, the Vietnamese communists banned other political parties, arrested people believed to have collaborated with the U.S. and sent them to reeducation camps. The government also embarked on a mass campaign of collectivization of farms and factories. Reconstruction of the war-ravaged country was slow and serious humanitarian and economic problems confronted the communist regime. Millions of people fled the country in crude boats, creating a humanitarian crisis."

If that's anyone's idea of us winning a war, Mike, I'd sure hate to see what they think losing would be like.

None of that has anything to do with Iraq, however. Unless . . . you want to put forth the argument that Iraq is another Vietnam?
Mistletoe Angel
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60 posted 03-29-2007 02:05 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

quote:
Success and defeat can mean different things to different people, perhaps?


I agree with that.

As long as we are on the subject of abstract words, it reminds me of the whole Pat Tillman saga again, and what "honor" really is, where April 22nd will be three years since this corporal passed away in Afghanistan.

The first version of this story was that Tillman was killed in an ambush by hostile forces in Afghanistan. Then, after his memorial service at the end of May of 2004, after this professional football star's memory was used as psuedo-patriotic jujitsu intended to drive up recruitment and even romanticize the war in Iraq, the Army revealed a second version of the story; that Tillman had not been killed by the Taliban, but instead by friendly fire.  

One year later, version three of the story came out, when the Army admitted it was friendly fire from virtually the day he died. And on Monday, unfortunately yet another version, version four, was revealed; where nine officers, four generals among them, knew, including at least one who attended Tillman‘s memorial service, but decided to say nothing to the family about the truth while he was there.  

Coming on three years later, even his parents say they are STILL not getting the truth from U.S military officials, why testimony is restricted to those in that group that accidentally killed her son, why one day U.S military officials told Tillman's parents his diary had been lost but then later on says "Ohhhhhhh wait, thhaaaaatttt diary, rrrigghhtttt, the one that was burned with his clothes after that tragic ordeal!"

It's absolutely mind-boggling to me. What I really want to know is, if there was indeed a cover-up, which I believe there was, WHY did they even bother with it, why was it necessary to have undertaken it? Tillman was ALREADY a hero from the very beginning, simply by genuinely serving our country and volunteering truly is patriotism in its purest and most unadulterated form, and ended up giving as much as anyone ever could. That just because he happened to have died from friendly fire, how does that diminish ANYTHING he did whatsoever?

Pat Tillman didn't deserve that Silver Star by that artificial patriotic window dressing that was made up. Tillman deserved that Silver Star simply because he was Pat Tillman, selflessly serving boldly and honorably for his country.

Tillman forever deserves our honor and sincerest respect. Unfortunately, "honor" seems to mean differently to a selective few that make up a portion of the Pentagon.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Mistletoe Angel
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61 posted 03-29-2007 02:17 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Apparently that's the most popular fairy-tale over at Fox News!

World Public Opinion: October 2, 2003

Oh wait, you mean they DO believe there's a link as clear as day from the very beginning? And they still parrot that soundbyte, despite the president himself acknowledging there's no link between Iraq and 9/11?

The dish must have ran away with the runcible spoon!

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
rwood
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62 posted 03-29-2007 04:45 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

So, FOX is: Full Of X-files?

and their slogan should be, "The truth is out there." Not here.

But some still want to believe!

Noah~

Thousands have died by friendly fire. More will suffer the same fate. Casualties of war. The military doesn't pick off their own, normally, but when it happens they usually don't stop and wait for CSI to come and investigate the death.

And no, I don't think that friendly fire makes a difference in decoration. The medals tend to mean more to others than they do the soldier. They will stand, fight, and die whether they get one or not.
Balladeer
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63 posted 03-29-2007 06:51 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

  We didn't invade Iraq in hot pursuit of terrorists. We didn't invade to save the Iraqi people from Saddam Hussein. And in spite of strident assertions to the contrary, we didn't invade Iraq to establish a democratic foothold.

True enough, Ron, and I didn't use any of those reasons in my tale. What I used was we eliminated a plausible safe haven for the terrorist groups and also a potential customer for the WMD's. Yes, I know....what WMD's?  I'm referring to the ones you, I, Congress and the world in general believed were there, the ones that Hussein bragged about having. Over the past seven years, mindsets have changed but remember how they were back then. An attack on the United States, threats that there would be more, a leader, vocal in his hatred of the U.S, claiming to have weapons of mass destruction, Al Qaida being chased out of Afghanistan......believe me, if Bin Laden had gotten hold of weapons from Hussein and hit the US with them, you and millions of others would be screaming, "How did Bush let this happen? Why didn't he take out Hussein like Clinton proposed to do in 1998?" Say it ain't so.

No, as I said, I was trying to make no particular point in relating my customer's account of his visit not did I say I agreed with it. I don't know exactly what he saw there or all that made him issue such a claim. All I say is that he was a soldier there during a rough time and he is still able to give that opinion. You have yours and I have mine. That's how opinions works. The only reason I brought it up at all was your reference to the "lost" war in Iraq. Not everyone agrees with that as, apparently, there are people that don't agree that Viet Nam was a complete failure, either. That's the connection that made me think of it.

You will continue calling it a lost war and soldiers will continue coming home, proud of what is being accomplished there. Tell THEM how lost it is.....
 
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