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I Beg Your Pardon?

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Mistletoe Angel
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0 posted 02-10-2007 09:14 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

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http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-02-06-agents-convicted_x.htm


Ex-Border Patrol agent beaten in prison
Posted 2/6/2007 8:27 PM ET



EL PASO (AP) — A former Border Patrol agent who was convicted of shooting a drug smuggling suspect and then lying about it has been beaten by fellow inmates in prison.

Prison officials on Tuesday confirmed assertions by a congressman and relatives of Ignacio Ramos. He was attacked Saturday night after his case was described on the TV show "America's Most Wanted," the officials said.

Ramos suffered minor cuts and bruises, U.S. Bureau of Prisons spokeswoman Traci Billingsley said in a statement.

Ramos has been moved to the special housing unit at the medium- and low-security federal prison in Yazoo City, Miss., where he is serving time, Billingsley said.

The convictions of Ramos and fellow former agent Jose Alonso Compean sparked outcry from critics who argued that the men were merely doing their job defending the border against criminals.

U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., a vocal supporter of the agents and opponent of illegal immigration, criticized the Bush administration Tuesday for failing to protect Ramos and demanded a full presidential pardon for the two men.

"Not only did the administration choose the side of a foreign dope runner over the agents who stopped him from smuggling a load of drugs into the county — now they've failed to protect that agent while his case is on appeal," he said in a statement.

The incident is being investigated, and the four inmates believed to have been involved have been separated from other inmates, Billingsley said.

Ramos and Compean, who reported to prison in January, were each sentenced to more than a decade behind bars. Compean is serving his sentence at the Elkton Federal Correctional Institution in Ohio; no problems have been reported with his detention.

The agents were convicted last year of shooting Osvaldo Aldrete Davila in 2005 near El Paso and then trying to cover up the incident. Davila was shot once in the buttocks.

Ramos' wife, Monica Ramos, told The Associated Press on Tuesday that her husband described being attacked late Saturday, when he "let his guard down." She said the attackers kicked and stomped him for several minutes.

He was able to identify one man in the group, Monica Ramos said.


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In bringing up to speed on the particular incident, Ramos and his partner, Compean, were guarding the Mexican border near El Paso in February 2005 when they intercepted a van loaded with 743 pounds of marijuana. The admitted drug smuggler, an illegal immigrant named Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila, tried to flee and one of the agents shot him in the buttocks though he still got away.

Shortly after the incident, some federal prosecutors went to Mexico and offered the drug dealer immunity to testify against the Border Patrol agents who were subsequently convicted on charges of causing serious bodily injury, assault with a deadly weapon, discharge of a firearm and violating the drug smuggler’s civil rights. The agents were sentenced to 11 and 12-year prison terms, which they began serving just a few weeks ago.

Thus, that's where the outrage toward President Bush and Congress comes in, where it has been noted that on December 21st of last year, despite appeals for clemency from the Border Patrol agents' families, 51 members of Congress and tens of thousands of U.S citizens, President Bush refused to pardon the agents, yet pardoned 14 criminals, which included these four drug offenders:

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• Marie Georgette Ginette Briere — possession of cocaine with intent to distribute.
• George Thomas Harley — aiding and abetting the distribution of cocaine.
• Patricia Ann Hultman — conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute and to distribute cocaine and other controlled substances.
• Eric William Olson —possession with intent to distribute, possession, and use of hashish.


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In addition, President Bush pardoned Jesse Ray Harvey, a United Mine Workers union member convicted of blowing up mines in West Virginia.

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For decades, our government and every administration has made little or no effort to abide by our rule of law and crack down at the heart of illegal immigration. And it's behavior such as this that exemplifies the travesty of it all in my opinion.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Ron
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1 posted 02-11-2007 12:10 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Sorry, Noah, but I don't think you're entirely clear on where you believe the travesty lies. Are you advocating shooting people illegally? Or looking the other way when it happens?

Whether one agrees or disagrees, I think there are arguments to be made for the legalization and control of drugs. I can think of no reasonable argument, however, for the legalization of human target practice. Both are crimes, but I think that is where all comparisons end. Violence cannot be easily pardoned.


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2 posted 02-11-2007 02:02 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

As you know in Canada we don't "pack" guns, so it's hard for me to understand how you can have it both ways?   Whenever it involves weapons, it involves choices.  The fact that the choice is more than not emotionally driven is what always makes me keep voting for gun control up here, and will until the day I die. You just can't look the other way or can you?  I would hate to see anyone start pardoning the use of a weapon, or any violence to be honest.

Mistletoe Angel
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3 posted 02-11-2007 03:53 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

You both make some fair points here, regarding the use of violence when maintaining our rule of law.

Let me say, as I've said before, that I believe we can protect our borders and maintain the rule of law without having to resort to more extreme, violent tactics like the "1, 2, 3, fire..." warning.

Yet, that's the whole primary purpose for this thread here; highlighting the double standard of our government's border policy. While I'm not blind to the abuses of police and law enforcement, I do feel they are generally respectable and professional, and even where there's guilt, I actually feel for these two guys' families in particular.

What's especially telling about this whole thing is that the that the investigation of this incident was just completed last week. What I want to know is: "Why were they prosecuted and convicted before the investigation was over?" All of this happening while the drug dealer has no comment, already caught several times since trying to bring drugs across the border, where a jury just might grant him the millions he is seeking from the federal government for allegedly being shot while committing a crime and entering this country illegally. And THAT there is an even greater problem.

When you look back on Ramos' record, he has served seven years in the U.S. Navy and, now, the last 10 years as a U.S. Border Patrol agent, also nominated for Border Patrol Agent of the Year in 2005. So it seems to me that, even while his recent motive can certainly be more than questioned, he has an otherwise model record and has done a great job in law enforcement.

When you read the accounts of the altercation at the border, also, Jose Alonso Compean first had discovered indicators that drugs had recently been smuggled across the border, who then saw a van leaving the area, radioed to agents ahead, while the driver, aware that he had been spotted, turned back towards Compean and ran off on foot, ignoring several commands to stop given in both English and Spanish, then continuing toward the border, turning and pointing something "shiny" at Compean which Compean believed to be a gun and fired at the perpetrator. That's where Ramos comes in, who heard the shots, ordered the man to stop, the perpetrator pointing that same shiny object at Ramos, prompting Ramos to fire a shot, which didn't make the man stop and having Ramos assume he missed but the man had been shot in the buttocks.

So, to me, this looks very much like that sort of situation where the perpetrator is in a bladed stance, designed to threaten to shoot at the agents rather than simply running from them. What I'd like to know is why that drug dealer would even bother to stop and use that "shiny" object, pretending it was a weapon, rather than make a clear run for it to the Rio Grande and make his getaway in the van, where nearly 800 pounds of marijuana was found.

And what's especially troubling about this whole episode is that the "victim" here is being portrayed as the drug-smuggler himself, Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila. He could have returned across the border and make his complaints, but that's not what he did, and rather federal prosecutors drove straight down into Mexico, offered him immunity, encouraged him to come back into the country, and then provide testimony against the agents, even though it seems quite clear to me that Aldrete-Davila's crimes were far worse in comparison.

What's even more telling is that not only did these two agents get convicted BEFORE the investigation was complete; recently it was also reported by the National Border Patrol Council that "three of the 12 jurors later submitted sworn affidavits alleging they had been misled into believing that there could be no dissent in the decision of the jury."

And this whole legal fiasco is happening while Aldrete-Davila was once again arrested smuggling drugs into the U.S, through that exact same region, and could get away with another $5 million.

And all I can say, after reflecting on all of this, is: "Is that justice?"

In my opinion, I do believe a pardon is appropriate in this sort of case, while in contrast that pardon should never have been offered to that individual who blew up those West Virginia mines. Putting the rights of a drug smuggler ahead of the rights of our own Border Patrol agents is absolutely wrong in my opinion, as that is literally sending a message to others like Aldrete-Davila out there that our government endorses lawlessness over abiding by the law.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Alicat
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4 posted 02-11-2007 05:21 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

I've been hearing both sides, and even some in other dimensions, all this week and the last on the ubercon radio shows my mom favors whenever I pass from room to room.  Personally, I've been waiting for the investigation's conclusion even though the tar and feathers are still wet on the accused while the accuser is granted pseudo sainthood while selling substances deemed illegal by this nation's laws.

In short and in brief, I'm with Noah.
Ron
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5 posted 02-11-2007 07:01 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I haven't followed the case at all, so, unlike you two, I know only what has been relayed in this thread. Most of the points you've made, Noah, are at best irrelevant and at worst distractions. It doesn't matter how long the shooter was a sailor or border patrol agent, it doesn't matter the character of his target, and it certainly doesn't matter if some perceived political message is sent as a result of a conviction.

Was it a good shooting? That's the only thing that matters. If Ramos felt compelled to try to hide the incident, as Noah indicated he did, one has to wonder why.

I agree we have to support our law enforcement officials, especially against drug runners and other criminals. At the same time, however, when our government gives a man a gun, I think he has to be held to a much higher standard than those same drug runners and other criminals. He has to be accountable.

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6 posted 02-11-2007 08:09 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Granted.  Howsoever, the accuser, a known drug runner, was given amnesty.  Cart Blanc.  Absolved of all prior sins and crimes in exchange for his testamony, which was about as worthwhile as a drunkard's recycled water.  Perhaps I'm just a wee bit jaded, but I have serious issues trusting someone granted total immunity who has a long history of breaking our nations laws, and now has a chance to testify against those charged with protecting our borders.  I do wonder what hue and outcry there would be if yet another Border Patrol agent was killed in the line of duty, since the agents did not know what the offendor had in his hands, and weren't about to wait to find out.  Frankly, I can't blame them.

I do confess to not knowing the whys behind the alleged coverup.  Only thing I can think of is the lack of a body or person in custody, and that the alleged perp was shot in the butt.  I haven't had the priviledge of reading the unedited report, so I've no real notion of any discrepencies, though it does strike me as very very odd that the Border Patrol agents were found guilty long before their trial and very long before the conclusion of the investigation which was a farce in and of itself.  Would the agents have been freed if the investigation found them innocent of any wrongdoing after all those millions were spent in going to Mexico, finding witnesses, bring them to the US, feeding/sheltering/protecting/entertaining them until and during trial, sending them back to Mexico where they can restart their drug smuggling operation into the US knowing they have a free pass for a while, and then the internment of the Border Agents into General Population where they can be singled out by the inmates for target practice based on their prior occupation?  I think not, at least not for several years down the road due to paperwork getting lost.
Mistletoe Angel
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7 posted 02-12-2007 02:47 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

There are several other irregularities in this whole case to be noted.

The first one is that U.S. congressman John Culberson (R-TX) said this week that the Department of Homeland Security has admitted the agency misled Congress when it reported that Ramos and Compean had said they “wanted to shoot some Mexicans.”

The second one is that another U.S. congressman, Duncan Hunter (R-CA), wrote to the director of the federal Bureau of Prisons on the day when Ramos and Compean were incarcerated to “urgently request” that the two agents be segregated from the general prison population for their own safety. Although Hunter says he was assured that the prisoners would be segregated, obviously Ramos was actually returned to the general population, which leads us back to that prison assault.

And, thirdly, by the way, if it seems that only Republicans are infuriated here, Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) came out requesting a Senate hearing on the case in August 2006.

Certainly, it would be acceptable to fire, or even prosecute these two men if there was enough evidence independent of the drug smuggler's that points to them. But granting immunity to known repeat offenders, virtually testifying against our rule of law, is absolutely unacceptable.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

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LeeJ
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8 posted 02-12-2007 08:13 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Noah, First I'd like to thank you for posting this thread…

Second, the concept of this country's way of thinking literally sickens me inside…I just cannot help by shake my head and say, "No wonder"

December 21st of last year, despite appeals for clemency from the Border Patrol agents' families, 51 members of Congress and tens of thousands of U.S citizens, President Bush refused to pardon the agents, yet pardoned 14 criminals, which included these four drug offenders:

• Marie Georgette Ginette Briere — possession of cocaine with intent to distribute.
• George Thomas Harley — aiding and abetting the distribution of cocaine.
• Patricia Ann Hultman — conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute and to distribute cocaine and other controlled substances.
• Eric William Olson —possession with intent to distribute, possession, and use of hashish.


Aldrete Davila is a drug runner, this particular incident he was caught with marijuana, what other drugs does he run?  And how many American Children and Adults die every year from Drug Overdoses?  Bet someone in high places lost a heck of a lot of money from this drug bust?I think the drug runner has to be held accountable and has to realize, there is a chance he could get caught/or shot...because drug runners usually carry weapons...just like people running the illegals in and out of the U.S., they to, carry weapons....

I'd like to know who beat up Ramos in prison.  Were they  Mexican Criminal Illegal Immigrants?  And I'd like to know, who turned their heads while he was being beat up and why?  Works both ways yanno, he has rights to.  After all, he was out there protecting the boarder...trying to protect you and I from just this very situation.

743 lbs. of marijuana is no small time deal, it's not like he was coming across the boarder with a joint in his pocket...so I'm assuming there were a lot of hands in this till…a lot of money was lost on both sides of the coin, therefore someone had to pay, right?  Someone lost an awful lot of money with this bust, and if the boarder patrol had turned their heads the other way...well, that is a totally different scenerio and one that has been going on for year.  

Yanno what I think, Ramos was a guy, simply doing his job, and everyone is making HIM out to look like the criminal...b/c he shot a drug runner in the butt...I wonder, what weapon Aldrete Davila had on his person, if any, and what in the world does a drug runner expect to happen...when running drugs...?  Have we made it that easy for them?  Apparently so.  

Lest we forget, Ramos is here legally and was doing a job that we hired him to do...were paying him to do....has anyone asked if arms were drawn on Ramos?  Was it dark...what was the entire situation?  

"Shortly after the incident, some federal prosecutors went to Mexico and offered the drug dealer immunity to testify against the Border Patrol agents who were subsequently convicted on charges of causing serious bodily injury, assault with a deadly weapon, discharge of a firearm and violating the drug smuggler’s civil rights."

Is anyone aware of the fact, or perhaps it was mentioned and I missed it, that this drug dealer is now suing for how much?  A million dollars b/c HIS rights were jeopardized????????  Sheesh?

Yanno, in my way of thinking, the guy is very fortunate he only got shot in the buttocks????  To me, if he's running drugs, he's a menace to society...

Did Ramos yell, "STOP or I'll Shoot?  Did the drug runner stop?

This is a perfect example of how turned around and corrupt our judicial system is. I do not or cannot believe people are feeling sympathy for this drug runner?  Someone who is feeding drugs to your kids? Who has probably run drugs before and will continue to do so...someone who has no conscience nor does he care how many people drugs kill or get addicted to, and how many families are torn apart by drugs.  

I cannot believe federal prosecutors went down to Mexico, on the tax the payers money, and offered this drug dealer, immunity to testify against The Boarder Patrol agents, all on the tax payers money and to boot…protected a drug runner?????? Doesn't anyone want to know why?????  This really whole thing really stinks.  

What about the serious bodily harm this drug runner has been instilling on the American Public selling His drugs and for WHO is He selling them for?  Why THIS PARTICULAR DRUG RUNNER?  WHERE WAS 743 LBS of dope going? Who was the contact here in the states and who all were involved in this particular run, who was supposed to pick up all those drugs?  Does anyone know how many drugs are run thru the boarders?  This was 743 lbs of pot…has anyone stopped to ask, what else is coming thru?  We're talking big time drug dealers here with a whole lot of money to loose?  Millions!!!!!  

Noah, yes indeed I catch your questions loud and clear…and can only sit back and shake my head in utter disgust....and fear for what has happened and will continue to happen to our country's laws and upholding respect for out laws.

All I can say is, this country is in big big trouble…

I say, stop hiring people to protect the boarders and let everyone in this country who wants to come in…let em all in….free of charge, cuz we're wasting a lot of money on boarder protection if something like this is going to happen.

In my opinion…anyone who runs drugs is scum.....anyone who sells drugs is scum and/or cold blooded killers.  Killers of not just the kids and adults dieing from drugs, but entire families, who their deaths affect.  This whole entire situation stinks very badly…and speaks volumes for itself.

I have no sympathy for drug runners, they kill people…children and adults alike, but, this is another perfect example of how corruption lives and dwells within our systems….this situation should absolutely scare the bejesus out of people…

Noah, thanks so much for bringing this thread to light.

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (02-12-2007 10:17 AM).]

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9 posted 02-12-2007 02:01 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

I don't think it's so much a matter of 'sympathy' for this drug runner, but a question of whether these border patrol gaurds broke the law... I mean, the report Noah posted said that the guy was running away, and he got shot in the butt- more evidence that he was running away. Now, I could be wrong, but I thought police were only supposed to shoot a criminal who was threatening them or others with a weapon- i.e., if they didn't shoot the person, someone would very likely be hurt, in the immediate future.

But it is apparently ridiculous that two people who shot a man and covered it up are being held responsible for their actions. Do I agree that this drug-runner should be given a million dollars in reparations and given immunity to testify? No, especially given his continued criminal activity. But, are drug runners such scum that we should be able to shoot, just because? No... but really, why should we care, he's just a Mexican ciminal, right?
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10 posted 02-12-2007 03:08 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Perhaps I'm just a wee bit jaded, but I have serious issues trusting someone granted total immunity who has a long history of breaking our nations laws, and now has a chance to testify against those charged with protecting our borders.

So, your contention, Ali, is that the whole thing is a lie and Ramos never fired a weapon? If you're right, he doesn't need a pardon, he needs a better lawyer. No one, after all, pardons innocent men.

Pardons are for those who are guilty but don't deserve to be punished.

quote:
But granting immunity to known repeat offenders, virtually testifying against our rule of law, is absolutely unacceptable.

I tend to agree, Noah, but even taken at face value, that has absolutely nothing to do with pardoning Ramos.

We're talking about the proper use of Deadly Force, guys. That someone was shot in the butt instead of the head is mere happenstance, not intent, and that the someone shot was a drug runner rather than a migrant farm worker is fortuitous but not greatly relevant. We don't need a bunch of 007's patrolling the border with an imagined license to kill. The oath a law enforcement official takes binds them to the law, it doesn't put them above it.


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11 posted 02-12-2007 03:44 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Ali -- just a thought here.....you know Texas and I suspect you have a pretty good grip on the climate surrounding drug cartels.....perhaps, they tried to cover it up (if they did...since the trial transcript has not been released yet as far as I know, nobody has the facts yet except the judge and jury) maybe for self-preservation from being targeted themselves. ??Maybe??
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12 posted 02-15-2007 02:10 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

New Information....drug smuggler was found to bring in drugs again....after he was granted amnisty and by the way, drug smugglers carry guns


http://narcosphere.narconews.com/story/2007/2/11/3355/32538[/URL]
http://www.pamibe.com/?p=758

http://www.nbpc.net/ramos_compean/rebuttal_to_sutton.pdf
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13 posted 02-15-2007 02:46 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

No Ron, there was given testimony that shots were fired by the agents toward the fleeing accused who brandished a 'shiny object' in their direction while running.  Unfortuned, it's highly unlikely that any of the testimony will be made public, except by tell-all books.  And I'm sure the alleged drug smuggler, if he's smart, would have already booked an agent and author for yet another O.J. inspired 'My Story' or 'My Struggle *Adolph anyone?*'.

In a related story, there was another border agent who commanded an illegal to stop and to stop resisting.  The illegal went for his own waistband, so the agent struck him on the head with his flashlight.  The illegal needed about 5 staples to close the wound, got 80,000 USD paid by the Border Patrol and bought ranch in Mexico (which by all accounts does not have people crossing it, polluting it, defoiling it, raping the females, abusing the males, or killing the livestock).  The agent was suspended without pay, lost his house, lost his wife, and has had to file for bancrupcy, so lost his credit.  To my limited knowledge, the agent did not have a firearm, just a regulation flashlight against a 50 year old Mexican National who struggled and fought with the border agent until physically subdued.  And the the agent called for medical assistance.  How many of the drug runners who actually rule the northern Mexican counties would have done the same?  How many law enforcement and military personnel have lost their lives in the northern provinces of Mexico?

And yet, despite that, the Latin-American Congress, of which I cannot belong due to my skin color and genetics, blames the US Border Patrol for the wrongs of Mexico, and the Nationals who enter this country against US Federal Law in the name of Reconquistadores, or maybe money, in USD or Euros please.
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14 posted 02-20-2007 06:08 AM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

I think the drug runner is wrong and I think the men were wrong to cover it up. but this isn't all that black and white here. It isn't simply right or wrong, all sides need to be weighted here.
What brought this man to be running drugs? what are his motives?
Who had all the stakes in this drug run? How much money are they paying to get back what they lost in the bust?

But I must argue with this comment made by LeeJ


.anyone who sells drugs is scum and/or cold blooded killers.  
Killers of not just the kids and adults dieing from drugs, but entire families, who their deaths affect.


You can't shut it down so fast, you need to look at the reasons why they are selling drugs.
Would you have the same regard for
a criminal who is rich but sells drugs for the power and money
as you would for
a sixteen year old girl on the streets supporting a child who sells and prostitutes to survive
??????

There are people selling who are the same people dying from the drugs they sell. Alot of kids on the street sell because they want to survive. Surviving shouldnt be a crime, but what they are doing is. But if you put them in and out jail again for it, they won't learn.. Take them off the streets and I garuntee they probaly won't sell anymore.

its not so black and white as you put it LeeJ.
If you sympthazie for the men we paid to protect than you can't disdain the drug runner instantly because you won't examine the motives and why he had the way you are for the two men.
LeeJ
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15 posted 02-21-2007 11:10 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Rhia
Surviving shouldnt be a crime, but what they are doing is. But if you put them in and out jail again for it, they won't learn.. Take them off the streets and I garuntee they probaly won't sell anymore.

its not so black and white as you put it LeeJ.
If you sympthazie for the men we paid to protect than you can't disdain the drug runner instantly because you won't examine the motives and why he had the way you are for the two men.

For me Rhia, and to me, it is black and white, you either choose to sell drugs or you work an honest job, to eat, to feed your children.  You do what it takes, clean house, take in ironing, waitress, you pick up garbage, you drive a dump truck, and perhaps go to night school at the same time, but you don't sell drugs or take them....it is a choice to choose how one wants to survive Rhia...

Sorry, I have no compassion for drug runners...I do, however, have compassion for those who are hooked on them, and their families...and the lives it destroys...and the babies who are born drug addicts.

There are areas to me, that must be black and white...for me, one of those issues happens to be illegal drug runners.  


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16 posted 03-02-2007 12:31 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

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WorldNetDaily: February 23, 2007

Generally I take very little at WorldNetDaily seriously, but on this particular issue they've been following along better than just about any other news outlet out there, and now are streaming a new song titled "Ramos and Compean" there, written by a southern Californian by the name of Michael Britton.

Musically it's kind of a cheesy 80's early adult-alternative throwback, but it's still a brave and thoughtful recording.

Michael Britton's Musical Web-Site

You can download the track off of Britton's official web-site. The lyrics are below:

*

Commentary By Lou Dobbs

Ramos And Compean
Heroes And Brothers We Defend You
The Evil Done To Your Souls And Sacrifice
How Could We Ever Forget You

Vigilance For Which We Pray
Dominitus Deo
We Fight To The End And We All Stand Strong
With Ramos And Compean
Ramos And Compean

Ramos And Compean
Facing Danger In The Hot Sun
Never Knowing If The Ones You Caught Tonight
Will Cut You Down Or Kill You With A Gun

So All They Give You Is A Cell
And Living Hell For Your Family
We Americans Promise You And Swear By God
To Put An End To This Insanity; This Travesty

Vigilance For Which We Pray
Dominitus Deo
We Fight To The End And We All Stand Strong
With Ramos And Compean
Ramos And Compean

Instrumental

Commentary By Steve Elliott And Jerome Corsi

Vigilance For Which We Pray
Dominitus Deo
We Fight To The End And We All Stand Strong
With Ramos And Compean
Ramos And Compean
Vigilance For Which We Pray
Dominitus Deo
We Fight To The End And We All Stand Strong
With Ramos And Compean
Ramos And Compean

Commentary By Casey Wian And Dana Rohrabacher


*

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Mistletoe Angel
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since 12-17-2000
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City of Roses


17 posted 03-07-2007 01:51 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Again, though generally I can take little news and commentary at World Net Daily seriously, they have done an excellent job documenting and covering this particular story, so this is certainly worth sharing:

*

World Net Daily: March 7, 2007

Key evidence ignored in border agents' case

Hired by Ramos, detective says he tracked suspect through vehicle

Posted: March 7, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com



"A private investigator who was hired by former U.S. Border Patrol agent Ignacio Ramos during his trial on allegations he fired at a fleeing drug smuggler says he doesn't think prosecutors made any significant effort to find the smuggler, later identified as Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila.

Freddie Bonilla told WND that his investigation of the Feb. 17, 2005, incident was straight-forward, and led him quickly to Aldrete-Davila's identity, and he believes the federal government should have been able to do the same thing.

Bonilla, who was a homicide investigator with the El Paso Police Department and later the chief of detectives for the El Paso Sheriff's Department, also has served for several decades as a private investigator.

In preparing for the defense of Ramos, who along with Jose Compean was accused of shooting at Aldrete-Davila when Aldrete-Davila's van – loaded with drugs – was trapped by federal officers and he fled on foot back to Mexico, Bonilla said he started by looking at the van that Aldrete-Davila abandoned at the scene.

"Why didn't the Drug Enforcement Administration track down the van to find out who the owner was?" Bonilla asked WND. "That van was physical evidence of the crime that was never seriously investigated. Yet, prosecutor [U.S. Attorney] Johnny Sutton has been all over the national media saying there was no physical evidence he could have used to prosecute Aldrete-Davila. What about the van?"

The two former federal agents now are serving prison terms of 11 and 12 years on their convictions for that incident, even though Aldrete-Davila never was charged with the drug case – or a subsequent drug smuggling incident – and in fact was given immunity to testify against the federal border agents.

In an interview WND published Jan. 20, Sutton said there was no evidence against Aldrete-Davila which could have been used to build a case against him at trial. He explained that was why he granted immunity, to gain access to information in return.

But WND also has reported that a March 20, 2005 Department of Homeland Security investigative report filed by Jose Arredondo and vehicle towing receipts document that Aldrete-Davila was driving a 1989 Ford Econoline, bearing Texas license plate number 9GSW89.

At the same time, WND reported that the van was towed to the El Paso sheriff’s compound where it sat for approximately one month before the U.S. Border Patrol Evidence Team entered the compound, dusted the vehicle, and found 11 fingerprints, only three of which were duplicates.

But there's no indication the DEA or Department of Homeland Security investigators ever examined the vehicle or the fingerprints for evidence that might have led to Aldrete-Davila.

Bonilla said he quickly tracked the vehicle to Jesus Beltran, an El Paso self-employed construction worker who buys and sells used cars to supplement his income. Then Beltran examined photos of the van provided by Bonilla, as well as wrecking company towing records, and identified it as one he purchased in 2004 from an El Paso wrecking lot.

He registered it under his name and kept it for five months, then sold it to a friend in Juarez, Mexico, for $1,300. The Texas plates on the car at the time of the Feb. 17, 2005, drug incident were registered to Beltran.


"If I could find the car and how it got down to Mexico," Bonilla said, "then why couldn't the DEA or the DHS have tracked down the car in the attempt to find out who the drug smuggler was? Right there I found out far more than anybody ever investigated for the Border Patrol."

Even after Davila came forth on March 4, 2005, with the Mexican Consulate demanding the prosecution of the Border Patrol agents who shot him, Bonilla felt DEA and DHS should have investigated the van.

"If you tracked down Beltran's friend in Juarez," Bonilla argued to WND, "dedicated law enforcement in the U.S. might have uncovered the drug smuggling ring that hired Davila to run that load across the border."

Bonilla provided WND with photos of the drug van at the levee, where Davila ran the two front wheels over the edge before he abandoned the vehicle in the attempt to escape on foot. Bonilla also provided photos of the 743 pounds of marijuana discovered in the van at the scene of the incident.

Another issue Bonilla raised was the cell phone found in the van after Aldrete-Davila fled. "There were a total of 9 Border Patrol officers on the scene Feb. 17, 2005, plus two supervisors. Why is it that the DEA or DHS never investigated the cell phone Davila left behind? That cell phone should have had valuable numbers in the memory that could have led to Davila or the drug syndicate he worked for."

WND also has reported the Border Patrol found a cell phone in the drug van, with a charger plugged into the cigarette lighter.

The telephone became a subject of questioning at the trial for Ramos and Compean, when Ramos defense attorney Mary Stillinger asked the smuggler about it, and he said he got it from drug dealers in Mexico who hired him to walk across the border, find the marijuana-loaded van with a key in the ignition and drive it away.

But there was a discrepancy between his testimony and the evidence observed by investigators:


Stillinger: The phone that was in the van, was that your telephone, or was that a telephone that was given to you for the purpose of helping you to do this transaction?
Aldrete-Davila: Yeah, they gave it to me when I got on the van. When they sent me there, they gave it to me. I didn't have a telephone.
Stillinger: Okay. And they gave you the phone charger with it?
Aldrete-Davila: No, just the telephone.
Stillinger: Okay. So the phone charger – there was a phone charger in the van, wasn't there?
Aldrete-Davila: I don't know. They just gave me the telephone. I don't know if there was a charger or not.

Aldrete-Davila further testified that the phone was Nextel and that the drug users used the radio feature, not the telephone, to communicate. He also testified that he did not plug the phone into a charger.

"The whole thing with the cell phone was ridiculous," Bonilla told WND. "That cell phone should have been the first thing DEA or DHS should have been investigated to find Davila or his drug smuggling partners."

"Besides, Davila was lying about everything," Bonilla told WND. "He never explained how that white van on the other side of the Rio Grande knew to be there waiting for him when he ran away. Did he call his buddies when he was evading the Border Patrol hot pursuit? How come DEA or DHS didn't look into whether Davila called anybody when he was running away?"

He also offered an explanation for why Compean and Border Patrol Agent Arturo Vasquez picked up the spent shell casings expended when Compean and Ramos fired at the fleeing smuggler.

"I was a firearms trainer in the Marine Corps," Bonilla said, "and from the first day at the firing range through 26 years in law enforcement, it was hammered into my head that the first command after you finish shooting is to load and holster your weapon, and the second command is always, to pick up your brass or shell casings."

He also suggested that Border Patrol supervisor Jonathan Richards, who was also on the scene in 2005, should have known there had been trouble. "Richards was the main supervisor at the scene and he was made aware there had been shooting, despite what he testified at trial," Bonilla insisted. "Richards saw Agent Compean covered with dirt and bleeding from the face. But he convinced Compean that if Compean reported the matter, that it would require a lot of paper work, and then having to go to the F.B.I."

That would corroborate an earlier report when WND examined the transcript of a May 15, 2005 job suspension hearing Compean had with El Paso Border Patrol Sector Chief Louis Barker, in which Compean said Richards discouraged him from filing written reports after the incident with Davila.

Besides the Ramos-Compean case, there also has been an uproar over the conviction of Deputy Sheriff Gilmer Hernandez, who fired his weapon at a van loaded with illegal aliens he thought were trying to run him down. He was convicted for that and he's scheduled for sentencing later this month.

Yet another that already has been resolved, at the expense of a former federal agent, involves David Sipe, who was accused of improperly hitting a coyote [someone who smuggles illegal aliens into the U.S.] while he was resisting arrest with a flashlight. He was convicted and sent to prison before an appellate court overturned his conviction, and he was acquitted during a re-trial in January.

However, Sipe lost both his career and marriage because of the charges against him."


*

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
rhia_5779
Senior Member
since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


18 posted 03-10-2007 12:49 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

If you lived in the slums, with multiple children and a small house and no money or job.. And your kids are already hungry and dying and all u want is for them to stop crying and the only way for u to liv is to sell drugs to mak som cash?
Would you do it?

Beggars can't be choosers. Drugs are wrong. But so is the poverty of the people driven to these extremes.  Not everyone can do an honest job. If there is no work for them and people won't hire what do they do?

If not do things illegal how do they survive?
What do you suggest?
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


19 posted 03-10-2007 01:28 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Why not ask that to the governments of Mexico, both federal and state...or perhaps to the drug cartel controlled northern states which border the US.  You ask that of the US easily though, since it is obviously the responsibility of the United States to care for and protect Mexican citizens.  Viva la Monroe Doctrino!
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


20 posted 03-11-2007 02:23 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

"But so is the poverty of the people driven to these extremes."

In some very nice wheels . . .
rhia_5779
Senior Member
since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


21 posted 03-11-2007 03:01 AM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

The mexican govt has no problem with THEIR drug runners running to us. Do they?   They could care less, they have no problem with the poverty, they don't mind if their ppl come into the states illegally or legally.

So if the U.s wants to do anything about the drug runners try helping their families and maybe that will help their motivation to run drugs and they might stop.
 
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