City of Roses
Shall we pull out? I would hate to do that...but in the same, honestly admit, I hate to see us loose more young men if we are not going to go in there full force and with a different attitude and strategy. In listening to others, they say, if we stay, we'll be there for many years...just like we're still in Germany? And it seems to me, you cannot change a culture over night, that it takes years and years.
That last point is precisely the point I was making earlier in the thread on post #19; how can you ever expect to change a culture when you don't even understand the culture and the people you're trying to liberate, especially the schism that has defined the battle line in Islam for almost 1,400 years.
The neoconservative architects of this war believed we were likely to do just that in weeks, many pundits who paraded behind the war while virtually facillitating no dialogue and public discussion beforehand believed likewise, and it feels as though even the President believed so.
Or is it the Presidents perception, that Iraq is a start and a presence closer to the situations at hand in the Middle East and or, could it have been his agenda to maintain a presence in the Middle East and Iraq was a beginning. Something pulls at my inner being saying we should stay?
That's one of the lamest excuses to me, as to me that's like saying Lesotho is the center of the war on terror in Africa, or that Larson B is the center of the war on terror in Antarctica, cherry-picking some random country that had nothing to do with the 9/11 atrocities and then gambling on the premise that a floodgate of democracy will open and torrentially pour across the soils of all surrounding countries.
Over half of Americans don't buy that argument either that Iraq is linked to the war on terror either.
And am I being naive, but is now the time to ask ourselves what is in only the best interest of the U.S.? Shouldn't we also consider those over there who are in danger? I mean, wasn't that first and foremost on our agenda when we infiltrated as we did?
Our government launched the invasion because it was believed that not only did they have weapons of mass destruction, mobile labs, aluminum tubes, mobile labs and yellowcake...but that Saddam was a material threat to OUR nation and incessantly claimed that Saddam was widely responsible for 9/11, despite reports in advance noting that none of the 19 hijackers responsible for the September 11th atrocities came from Iraq, nor does multiple studies and investigations find any evidence of the link between Saddam and al-Qaeda.
Saddam was indeed a tyrant who committed horrible war crimes on his own people, and I am glad he can no longer harm another innocent spirit, and indeed I believe it's important that we continue to think very much about those who are in danger each day and pray for relief and peace to come to their communities, as millions have been doing for months already for Darfur. But I also believe that we must be more reasonable, and we shouldn't go routinely invading other countries in hopes of modernizing societies, and should only respond if a country poses a huge and knowledgable threat to our national security and interests.
The neoconservative's "long war" doctrine is that the only sure ways to build democratic societies elsewhere in the world is to invade country by country militarily, combat all the stifling forces there, and then work to try to modernize each country. Many always claim a non-violent peaceful belief is naive and utopian, but I happen to believe this neoconservative notion of spreading peace worldwide is far more utopian and naive, and already they're determined to go into Iran and Syria even while we're still in Iraq.
And if we pull out, what does that say to the soldiers and their families who have lost their lives, would it be wrong for me to believe then, that they lost their lives for nothing?
They never lost their lives for nothing from the beginning, that's the whole point.
Courage and bravery is to be commended that's in the hearts of all our young men and women in uniform, which has glistened in them long before they ever started serving in Iraq, and no matter what happens to each individual serving there, they were born with these honors and will live on with these honors.
Although I believe Iraq is a colossal mess in the general sense and condemn this administration in its handling of it, I wholeheartedly praise everything our young men and women have done in reaching out to each Iraqi community and at least making a most genuine and compassionate effort to improve their way of life locally in Iraq, from building and re-building schools and hospitals, to providing fresh water to the citizens, to teaching them new sports, to offering child-care services; what they've done is most inspirational and shows that even in the biggest blunders of war, there's always an uplifting and human side to it that's represented in the hearts and minds of our young men and women in uniform and the civilians.
THAT'S why their efforts will NEVER be met in vain and they will NEVER die for nothing; they offered their hearts to help and reach out to a national populace, and even if a functioning democracy is never established there, I believe these altruistic efforts will be greatly appreciated to many Iraqi communities, and there are many reasonable Iraqis that will separate the politics of the government from that of our children.
And Brad, I'm not suggesting your wrong...but shouldn't we also be considering where we leave those people in Iraq if we leave? Will they be overrun? Do they indeed have the ability to fight for themselves? Or shouldn't we consider that, as well?
That's why a majority of the American public does NOT favor immediate withdrawal of ALL our forces there, but rather a phased withdrawal; though a strong majority of Americans now disapprove of this war's handling and also believe it is a mistake that we invaded to begin with, the most unfortunate problem is that we are there, and we need to at least make a genuine effort to train and provide for the Iraqi forces so that they will be able to effectively protect their country against inevitable constant insurgent attacks.
But it is beyond naive that we stay there for years and years, as that's only going to stretch our military further, it's only going to lead to many more needless lives of American soldiers, it's only going to further strain our nation economically, and frankly I believe it is the occupation there that has triggered the increasing sectarian violence there to begin with.
I don't think American's should conclude based on political agendas or anger at the other party, or even on past wars...but first and foremost consider everything else and the present...and yes, I know that is something that will never happen, but I suppose what should be said to Americans to remind them, forget about your parties and past blunders, and think about all the effects of pulling out or staying...which would be the best to do for all concerned, or be best for the U.S. in the long run. And if we pull out, will that put the world in more danger of more 911 attacks.
Yet you also have to consider the very real prospect that if we STAY, that's also going to put the world at greater risk of 9/11 attacks.
Constant polling trends show heavy majorities of Iraqis of all religious and cultural faiths wanting us to leave, and a far more scarier poll result that makes me extremely worried every day is nearly half of Iraqis believing that suicide attacks on our troops, regardless of their opinions on the groups committing them, are justified. That's a TERRIBLE problem, and should nothing improve in terms of public opinion there, I don't see how our presence there for years to come will in any way make attacks on our nation less likely.
It is in my opinion that we have already lost the war in Iraq, because this war has fomented new terrorists largely because many extremists there have exploited events like the bombing of the Golden Mosque in Somarra and the violence in Fallujah in making us look like the real enemy and thus brainwashing many young Iraqis nationally into joining al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations, thus we're sadly losing the information war against these propagandists.
"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"