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Passions in Poetry

Being a Woman

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rwood
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since 02-29-2000
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0 posted 01-02-2007 02:07 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

In response to Huan Yi's topic: To Be a Man,
I formed a new thread because I flipped his question.

  
quote:
And how is being a man these days
in Western culture different from being a woman?
Anyone willing to jump on that grenade?


My Observation:

If I rule out:

Gold Digger
Gal Gone Wild
Red Carpet Media *****
Rap/Rock Music Video Queen
Radical Feminist
Barbie
Porn Star
Sell Out
Office Shark
Femme Fatale
Marriage Trapper
Stripper
Fashion Industry Paper Doll
Prostitute
Man Eater
Home Wrecker
Dependent Woman
Uneducated Woman
Frigid Woman
Domineering Woman
Harpy
Submissive Woman
Plasticized Woman


or:

Cheerleader
Prom Queen
Pageant Contestant/Pageant Mother
Female Athlete

I'm think I'm just a woman. Pretty Boring, huh?

Anyone concerned about any of the examples I provided?

I don't feel any of them are male enforced.

Essorant
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1 posted 01-02-2007 02:50 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Are you suggesting they are less woman, just because they don't do as you?
Christopher
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2 posted 01-02-2007 03:09 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

I'm kinda with Ess here Reg - many of those aren't necessarily a bad way to be, just "different."

Perspective paints a lot more villians that reality ever will; situations can define moralities just as moralities can dictate the course of a situation.

Either way, though - I bet there is a male equivalent for each of the traits you listed. Being a good or bad person isn't determined by gender.  
rwood
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3 posted 01-02-2007 04:02 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Essorant~ No. I'm not special. Just me, and I've been labeled most of those things.

Those are just some of the negative labels and messages women deal with every day within our families, peer to peer, our social circles, business, personal interests, romantic interests, church, and the media.

Christopher~ Thank you. True. But do men treat other men as harshly as women treat each other with those labels?

I do feel that female role models are hard to find outside of family.
Christopher
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4 posted 01-02-2007 04:22 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Looking at many of the male role models available in the public today, I'd say it's not necessarily a bad thing to stick closer to home.

And - I've never claimed to understand women, so I'm not exactly what you might call an expert on the subject.

Local Rebel
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5 posted 01-02-2007 05:34 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

And - I've never claimed to understand women, so I'm not exactly what you might call an expert on the subject.



You can only understand each one individually.

Regina.. I vote you girl next door..

Looking at Christopher's comment though, about men -- it's interesting that the stereotypes we most often refer to about men have to do with occupations.

Being the father of two daughters though -- I can't begin to tell you how different each of them are.
Huan Yi
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6 posted 01-02-2007 05:35 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

I think what most clerks miss most
is that more than anything else
a man wants to come home.


.
Local Rebel
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7 posted 01-02-2007 05:51 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel


rwood
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8 posted 01-02-2007 08:41 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Christopher~ I can understand how you might feel that way.

Reb~ Awww, thanks! I wish my neighbors thought that. They think I'm the "strange and eccentric one on the block." ( with a bit of Hannibal from the Phantom of the Opera playing in the background.)

I have heard men judge each other over their occupations. What about their choice of mate? I hear men trashing other men's mates, but never to their face.

Two daughters? Big hugs, fella. You've got your hands full of wild and beautiful times, I'm sure.

Huan Yi~ I know, but they can't. At least not with me, no matter what others have said about me.

Reb~

Local Rebel
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9 posted 01-02-2007 10:52 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

They think I'm the "strange and eccentric one on the block." ( with a bit of Hannibal from the Phantom of the Opera playing in the background.)



Tish! When you speak French it drives me wild!  Cara Mia!  

I'm racking my brain trying to think of a time when a man spoke ill to me of another man's wife -- and the only conditions under which that ever happened was if a man was going through a particularly nasty divorce and the woman was, um... extracurricular.

Larry C
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10 posted 01-02-2007 11:22 PM       View Profile for Larry C   Email Larry C   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Larry C's Home Page   View IP for Larry C

Don't care what label you'd put on yerself, I'd love to be your neighbor!  

If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane,
I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again.

[This message has been edited by Larry C (01-03-2007 12:42 AM).]

Stephanos
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11 posted 01-02-2007 11:43 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

reg:
quote:
Those are just some of the negative labels and messages women deal with every day within our families, peer to peer, our social circles, business, personal interests, romantic interests, church, and the media.

But whether or not those labels are "male enforced" or not, doesn't make them womanly.  
Consider whether or not "wife beater", "dead-beat dad", "pimp", or "womanizer", really makes a man.  Though there are some who consider these behaviors "manly".  


Negative labels exist for a reason even if those labels are misapplied.  There are strands of negative behavior which work against one's fulfilled gender, whether you're male or female. Some of these negative behaviors involve the relationship between men and women.  Porn stars and prostitutes are examples of womanhood derailed.  Whether or not "male enforced" (though that is debatable still) these things do diminish womanhood.  


I think what cannot be easily denied is that there is a proper distinction between men and women, in spite of common ground.


Stephen.
rwood
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12 posted 01-03-2007 10:26 AM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Reb~ Oui, je parle le français, mais aucun Monsieur peut venir à ma maison avec moi.

When I worked in an office, men were constantly judging each other by how "whipped" the other was by their wives. (behind the back) and would further the sting with "She's such a (negative label)" and then they would proceed with "I'd never let my wife tell me what to do, blah blah, establishing himself as the alpha male, blah blah" Then the phone would ring for that man. "Honey, pick up some cat litter while you're out."

Women deal the same ugly cards, but in your face, one way or another, and it's hard to work around it, unless you're tough skinned.

Larry~ Great! "It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood....won't you be my neighbor?"

Stephen~ No, we agree, not womanly, destructive and undermining to the very fiber of a woman, especially when it's unwarranted.

A man, who has relations with any of the labeled women, can sit back and watch her be torn apart by other women as if he's a spectator at women's sports.

Except for the second list which is laced with negativity/abuse. They are still acceptable and worthy aspirations within society.

I was a female athlete, and I was called a female homosexual, more than once, by my peers who played the same game. Dumb, huh? But very real. Did it stop on the playing field? No.

quote:
Though there are some who consider these behaviors "manly".


"Behaviors," is the key word there, for me.

We are well aware of the double-standards.

Standards of behavior, social deviances, usually require both male and female involvement. This is where I go out on a limb and suffer more attacks from women.

Do I blame men for double-standards? No. They are well enforced by women.

Is it men's fault that we compete in so many ways we can no longer fit our own idyllic/idealistic mold?

No. And I won't get surgery to do it, either. Nor will I hide behind my door afraid of what the world might do to me or think of me.

Besides becoming a man, the only option for me is to be the best woman I can be, by my standards. The world will eventually tire with labels when my body becomes too aged for them to adhere. I will officially be OUT of the playing field.

quote:
Porn stars and prostitutes are examples of womanhood derailed


Perhaps someday, it will also be an example of manhood derailed as well. And no, I don't think you feel that behavior is manly. But it is a good example of how women are stigmatized over and above the men in the same video/alley.
serenity blaze
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13 posted 01-03-2007 10:41 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Both posts offend me.

I am a person.

Christopher
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14 posted 01-03-2007 12:48 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

See, Karen, you still feel the need to classify yourself though.

rwood
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15 posted 01-03-2007 01:04 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Serenity~ I value your opinion. You don't need anyone to agree with you for you to know you are a person.

I value my womanhood and feel it compliments me as a person, whether anyone agrees or not.

I don't feel I must first remove my womanhood before I have the same rights as any other person.

However difficult it may be at times, I refuse to deny my womanhood in order to feel more equal in a world of every different kind of person there is. The very act suggests I'm ashamed or I feel there's something wrong with being a woman. I feel I must value all the aspects of humanity in order to
make decisions/function/teach/lead, and learn from the negative ones.

That is why we have issues of equality/inequality.

That is why we have Human Rights and Women's Rights.

"It is a fight for freedom to be fully and completely human and equal without apology or permission."

http://hrw.org/women/

I won't apologize for applying myself as a woman who is free to be any person I wish to be.

And am I wrong in saying that men have never been required to remove their manhood before they stepped into a voting box, or before they applied themselves as a person or a human worthy of fair and equal treatment?
Essorant
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16 posted 01-03-2007 01:46 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I don't agree with the notion of "fulfilling" being male or female.  Becoming "more" of a male or female after making love is a big nonsense too.

Being a certain gender is already a given and is already "fullfilled".  It is done before one comes out of the womb.  No one comes out of his/her mother's womb without a fully established gender.  After the womb, I do not think there is anything to fill about "gender".  But it is now time to grow up, grow wiser and make choices.

serenity blaze
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17 posted 01-03-2007 02:06 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I don't think I even qualify for human today.

And yanno?

That might not be such a bad thing.
Local Rebel
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18 posted 01-03-2007 05:22 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Regina,

Le non, ceux-ci sont les mots parlés par Gomez Adams à Morticia

K,

I am not an animal!
Balladeer
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19 posted 01-03-2007 05:41 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

My grandma use to preach the apple theories...

Women are like apples on trees. The best ones are at the top of the tree. Most men don't want to reach for the good ones because they are afraid of falling and getting hurt.

Instead, they sometimes take the apples from the ground that aren't as good, but easy.

The apples at the top think something is wrong with them, when in reality, they're amazing. They just have to wait for the right man to come along, the one who is brave enough to climb all the way to the top of the tree.

Now Men.... Men are like a fine wine. They begin as grapes, and it's up to women to stomp the hell out of them until they turn into something acceptable enough to have dinner with.
nakdthoughts
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Between the Lines


20 posted 01-03-2007 06:14 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

smiling at Balladeers explanation...
and following the thread...

M
rwood
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21 posted 01-03-2007 08:39 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Essorant~ Children grow up to be adults, who are usually addressed as men and women, ladies and gentlemen. And if there's one thing I learn in the process of "growing up, growing wiser, and making my choices," is that fulfillment requires a continuous process of growth and learning from all the men, women, and children around me. I make my own choices accordingly.

Serenity~ I still value your opinion, or your existence, if you didn't have an opinion.

Reb~ You crack me up.

Michael~ You are wonderful, and so was your Grandma. Thanks for sharing her and the smiles.

Maureen~ Glad to have you peekin' in, hon.




Larry C
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22 posted 01-03-2007 10:25 PM       View Profile for Larry C   Email Larry C   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Larry C's Home Page   View IP for Larry C

Reg,
You're funny! Serenity without an opinion.

If tears could build a stairway and memories a lane,
I'd walk right up to heaven and bring you home again.

LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
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SE PA


23 posted 01-04-2007 06:58 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

following along and Deer your to funny, but loved the story...

I wish, and believe me, knowing it isn't a perfect world, but wish so, people would consentrate more on exercising their minds...finding good, knowing that all things are not flawless...but then, that is a perfect world, isn't it.  

Thanks so much for this thread

Huan Yi
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24 posted 01-04-2007 09:05 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

And so what explains that now
almost half of the country's children
are being raised by a single adult?

.
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