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rhia_5779
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since 06-09-2006
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California


75 posted 01-11-2007 05:40 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

WHat if they can't?

It isn't that easy to walk away from a live you grew up in, if you are in a gang or people more shady they won't understand it as saving your child. If you know nothing else ,even if what you know is bad , its hard want to leave what is fammiliar
rhia_5779
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since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


76 posted 01-11-2007 05:40 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

Going to mention my other points?
Ron
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Member Rara Avis
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77 posted 01-11-2007 08:01 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Rhea, please make one post at a time, not a dozen in a row.

Thank you.
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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78 posted 01-11-2007 08:08 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


"Dying is a part of life."

So why is medicine, (for primary example),
so devoted in determination against it?

Edward Grim
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since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


79 posted 01-11-2007 10:50 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

“What if the mother is say 13 my age or fourteen or younger than 18? do they still have the baby? Is that fair to the mother or too the child?”

Ok, let me tell you something that you will hear a hundred million times in your life and every time will be true. Life is not fair. The only thing we have to survive life is to try and follow what is wrong and what is right. Now, certain people today, try to fudge around with what is right and wrong. Of course certain things aren’t crystal clear as to what's right or wrong, but the basic things are simple. Killing is wrong.


“Sounds like you don't care about the mother or the child and to you it only matters whether the child lives to be born ,not whether it lives to turn 1 or lives to go to school or any of that.”

[Edited Unnecesary insults removed - Ron] Let me ask you a question: Do you think every child dies when it’s born? It sounds like that's what you're saying. If the child dies, it’s the negligence of the “parent.”  If the parent is a child (and 13 is the age of a child) then first off, they shouldn’t be having sexual intercourse. And if the child parent thinks they’re mature enough to be having sexual relations then shouldn’t they be mature enough to know what to do with the baby? Well guess what, they don’t know, because they are unintelligent and immature. Children should not be having children.

“One way a unborn child dies the other a mothers life is destroyed maybe.”

How do you figure? How would the mother’s life be destroyed? Walking around pregnant would already hurt her life enough. Pregnancy is quite obvious. How would birthing the child destroy her life? She has the child and gives it up. At least he/she would have the chance to live and see the age of 1 and go to school. Do you know what DCF is? Department of Children and Families. That is a government funded organization that puts unwanted children in foster homes and even let’s families adopt the children. (1-800-96-ADOPT) DCF removes children from abusive homes and their main goal is to help children and families, hence the name.

“O.k, killing is wrong. But if it is wrong for abortion then why is it o.k to kill in a war we didn't need to have?”

[Edited Unnecesary insults removed - Ron] First off, what does the war in Iraq have ANYTHING to do with what we’re talking about? What? Nothing, absolutely nothing, it’s totally irrelevant. That’s like me saying “What about Colin Powell?” when we’re talking about colon cancer. [Edited Unnecesary insults removed - Ron]

I love how you said “Killing is wrong, but…” That is such an askew statement. Killing is wrong period.

“How can our country justify killing innocents who are born  but we refuse to give a women a choice that she deserves to make because she aborts her child?”

Your own statement disproves your whole argument. You’re asking: “Why do we have a right to kill in Iraq?” Well, why should women have a right to kill her baby? It’s no different. Neither has a right.

“THis is differnt if the mother got pregnant through a gang related thing or lives in the streets do you really want to make the mother put her blood through what she goes through?”

Absolutely not, the girl should give up her baby to someone who can take care of the child. I believe I already mentioned the establishments suitably for taking a baby.

“Could you really stomach watching a child be born and 2 years later have the child get got in gang war and shot?”

What the heck is a child doing in a gang war at 2 years old? Did the mother bring the kid to the battle? What, did she have a shotgun in one hand and her kid in the other? And according to you I could probably could stomach it because, and I quote, “you don't care about the mother or the child.” Well, I do care very deeply for both mother and child so no I couldn’t stomach it which is why it’s absurd to think that a mother would expose her kid to that.

“REality check  not everyone can choose everything about what is going to happen .”

Ok, here’s a reality check for you: No you can’t choose what’s going on and that’s why you do something about it. Let’s look at slavery. People didn’t choose to be slaves but they worked to correct to it through autonomy, bravery and enough head sense to know what to do and what they were doing was right.

“What if she lives with a on drugs father and abused mother or the boyfriend or who lives with her is a drug dealer or a druggie or she is addicted to drugs?”

Huh, again, I’m trying to decipher this. First off, if the mother is taking drugs while pregnant, the kid probably wouldn’t survive in the womb. Yes, the mother would probably abort but that doesn’t make it right. She could’ve had the child and given it to the right people so the child could have had a better life. But that little baby never got the chance to live.

“Well if they are going to be having sex then be safe about it.”

Yes, safe sex is essential. But teenagers shouldn’t be having any kind of sex. Condoms only go so far; a girl can still get pregnant.

“What if its too late and the mother is already pregnant , what if she won't be able to have the child and raise it right”

This will be the last time I’ll say this because I don’t want to be redundant. If she can’t care for the child then she should give it up to the right people and organizations; THEY ARE ALWAYS THERE.

“THe child probaly won't get adopted the chances aren't that high.”

Where did you get that idea? Again, that’s a very cynical thing to say. There are so many programs working to get placements for all kids.

“What if she'd rather spare the child growing up motherless and in an orphanage?”

That’s not her right to do so. Ok, well what if I want to spare that homeless man from living on the streets and I kill him? Do you think I’d be prosecuted? YES! I was watching to news the other day about a bunch a guys that killed a homeless man, they were all jailed. Do you see my point? You can’t just exterminate a human life to spare suffering. And another thing, the child very well might have a mother and a good family through foster care or adoption. The chances are much much higher than you think

“But what if the mother doesn't want to have the child”

What if a mother doesn’t want her teenager anymore? Does that give her the right to kill? I think not, no, I know not.

“The govt could care less about street kids, long as eventually they vote for them and give money.  People who would disregarding background age and race are few and far in between”

I think you’ve been watching too much TV. There already are government programs to help kids, yes even street kids. Don't get me wrong, I loathe politicians. I'm so despised by the goevernment, I'm a nonpartison and refuse to vote. But they do on occasion do things. People wouldn't vote and give them money if they didn't do anything. There are many ways that children are being protected. And why do you only use gangs, street kids, and drug addicts for examples?

“The children more likely will get adopted for being cute. There are more people who get attached and decide oh lets go adopt a cute kid. than people who do it to be helping”

That is very very wrong. You are wrong with that. People do it to help, I should know.

“And if they are raped or didn't mean to or are young?”

??

“You guys are the ones who made the point about god taking lives righteously”

I was never involved in that discussion.

“If the mother might die having the child”

Ok, it’s not the 1800’s. It is a rarity for a woman to die giving birth nowadays. Yes it still happens but rarely. Hospitals aren't fairly tales.

“um, yah but we could of used some interfering and the rest of the Freakin world just stood by..Cowards..”

Would you want God interfering in your life? That’s not how He works. At least not now.

”ANd I repeat that was for the ones who mentioned the God taking lives thing”

Yes I realize that but I am still not understanding your claims about how God kills.

“Was God's act of taking life based on righteous judgment during the holoacaust, siearra leone civil war,darfur, stalins killings, wars,gang wars, Columbine such like that. What was right about taking those live?”

You are saying that God maliciously kills and that's a false comment.


And I said to the devil, "You better leave my spleen alone."

[This message has been edited by Ron (01-11-2007 11:59 PM).]

Edward Grim
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since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
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80 posted 01-12-2007 01:52 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

I didn't post any insults Ron. Well, at least I didn't think I did. Sometimes I can get too sarcastic and forget the guidlines. It's the Irish and German in me, I guess. Sorry about that, I'll try not to let it happen again.       Cheers    - Ed

And I said to the devil, "You better leave my spleen alone."

rhia_5779
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81 posted 01-12-2007 06:22 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779


[Edited Unnecesary insults removed - Ron] Let me ask you a question: Do you think every child dies when it’s born?
NO,never said that . I said that a thirteen year old shouldn't be having a child. But no thirteen year old can handle having a child, none.!! And what if they arent having sex they got raped or they were mislead .

It sounds like that's what you're saying. If the child dies, it’s the negligence of the “parent.”  

When did I say that? I said if they have the child and they are in the streets and they can't take care of the child nor get the child somewhere safe , the child could die.

If the parent is a child (and 13 is the age of a child) then first off, they shouldn’t be having sexual intercourse. And if the child parent thinks they’re mature enough to be having sexual relations then shouldn’t they be mature enough to know what to do with the baby? Well guess what, they don’t know, because they are unintelligent and immature. Children should not be having children.

O.K first off teens(thirteen year olds and others) should not be having children because they are too young and should be going to school and going to movies and going to parties and growing up. It doesn't have to do with being uninteligent(which they are not) or being immature(which some aren't) while they may not be mature enough or knowledgeable enough to handle a child, that isn't why they shouldn't have it.

“One way a unborn child dies the other a mothers life is destroyed maybe.”

How do you figure?
1.Trauma
2. responsibility
3. loss of innoncence\child hood
4 guilt for giving the child up if they choose to do so, that it is their flesh and blood they are giving up.

How would the mother’s life be destroyed?
If a thirteen year old or any teen has a child, there life will not be normal from then on. Whether they give it up or not! They won't go back to school and get treated the same, nor will they have the same friends nor will thit be easy to cope with the work in school that piled upwhile pregnant.
Walking around pregnant would already hurt her life enough. Pregnancy is quite obvious.

Not really, not till a certain point in the pregnancy and I am referring to an abortion in the first three to four months.

At least he/she would have the chance to live and see the age of 1 and go to school.
And if she can't get him to somewhere that can take him if she lives in the slums.

Do you know what DCF is?

NO but now I do thanks. Not all foster homes are great for kids its better to be adopted to an good family.
ANd if they can't get their child there .

“O.k, killing is wrong. But if it is wrong for abortion then why is it o.k to kill in a war we didn't need to have?”

Sorry I meant why is it o.k to kill in war at all?

[First off, what does the war in Iraq have ANYTHING to do with what we’re talking about?

That people can justify that war but not abortion . But that is off topic considerably, sorry mistake to bring up. Won't do that again.


I love how you said “Killing is wrong, but…” That is such an askew statement. Killing is wrong period.

Referring to the stupity of the ones disaproving abortion and being o.k with the war.

That was phrase wrong, really badly. I didn't mean to type that about innocents being born and such.

“THis is differnt if the mother got pregnant through a gang related thing or lives in the streets do you really want to make the mother put her blood through what she goes through?”

And if she can't give the child up. A father who is on drugs or an alcholic might not want to give up the child he sired.
ANd gangs aren't going to let the offspring of someone affliated with them or with them get out of the slums.


“Could you really stomach watching a child be born and 2 years later have the child get got in gang war and shot?”

What the heck is a child doing in a gang war at 2 years old?
Should of clarified that , I meant a child wandering into the crossfire or having the ones fighting go near where the child is not paying attention.

Did the mother bring the kid to the battle?
Course not.
What, did she have a shotgun in one hand and her kid in the other?
CAn questions get any stupider? All though I didn't clarify that comment by me enough.
And according to you I could probably could stomach it because, and I quote, “you don't care about the mother or the child.”
I know you care about the child living, I realize that. its the mother it doesn't sound like you care about.
Well, I do care very deeply for both mother and child so no I couldn’t stomach it which is why it’s absurd to think that a mother would expose her kid to that.

I repeat she might not have a choice.

“REality check  not everyone can choose everything about what is going to happen .”

Ok, here’s a reality check for you: No you can’t choose what’s going on and that’s why you do something about it. Let’s look at slavery. People didn’t choose to be slaves but they worked to correct to it through autonomy, bravery and enough head sense to know what to do and what they were doing was right.

Yep but by the time the gangs are willing to give up the child of a member or the people who are on the other side of the law might not want her going anywhere near authorities.

“What if she lives with a on drugs father and abused mother or the boyfriend or who lives with her is a drug dealer or a druggie or she is addicted to drugs?”

What if the father or boyfriend won't let her give up the child?

“Well if they are going to be having sex then be safe about it.”

Well at thirteen certainly not, they should  be legal adults I think. BUT if they are in HS like junior or senior and being safe, its not great but its better then them doing it at 14.

“What if its too late and the mother is already pregnant , what if she won't be able to have the child and raise it right”
THEY ARE ALWAYS THERE.

Oh really, than why are the any kids living on the streets.
You said yourself they take them out of bad households. If livingont he streets isn't a bad household or living off drug dealing or something like that or living in the slums , I don't know what is.

“THe child probaly won't get adopted the chances aren't that high.”

But its not easy.(I don't mean by that kill the child cause its not easy I just mean its harder to get good placements for children  who aren't of ideal age or looks and such.

“What if she'd rather spare the child growing up motherless and in an orphanage?”

That’s not her right to do so.

Its her body.YEs it is, Shes the one who has to go through having the baby and caring for it till she gets it to a place that will take it if she can get the child there.

“But what if the mother doesn't want to have the child”

And if the mother was raped and doesn't want the child or  can't handle it or the mother is a teen and just doesn't want to have the baby.

“The govt could care less about street kids, long as eventually they vote for them and give money.  People who would disregarding background age and race are few and far in between”

And why do you only use gangs, street kids, and drug addicts for examples?
Because those are the ones in danger of not making past toddlers if born.

That is very very wrong. You are wrong with that. People do it to help, I should know.

I said that. Some people do, but not as many as those who do it on whims unfornately. It is sad and if there was a way to change that, I would go for it in a hearbeat.

Curious, How would you know? Were you adopted or have you adopted?(here I am curious not debating.)
“And if they are raped or didn't mean to or are young?”

??

“You guys are the ones who made the point about god taking lives righteously”

I was never involved in that discussion.

I said I meant that toward Ron(I think was involved, I apologize if you weren't) and whoever else was involved.

“If the mother might die having the child”

Ok, it’s not the 1800’s. It is a rarity for a woman to die giving birth nowadays. Yes it still happens but rarely. Hospitals aren't fairly tales.

Um no, if the woman has cancer or the baby will be born with cancer or if there are complications to the birth.

“um, yah but we could of used some interfering and the rest of the Freakin world just stood by..Cowards..”

Would you want God interfering in your life? That’s not how He works. At least not now.

I'm sure sierra leone wouldn't have minded someone stepping in. But we still all stood by which is who I called a coward. ANd that is a personal major pet peeve that really makes me mad so yah.

”ANd I repeat that was for the ones who mentioned the God taking lives thing”

Yes I realize that but I am still not understanding your claims about how God kills.

I didn't say that i said God take lives.
If he wants us to learn well people learned during the holocaust he could of stepped in and tried to stop it or we could have, which we didn't try to meaning to.

And I am sorry about all those posts i was trying to take care of each thing one at a time but for now on I'll just post in one big thing. Sorry to all those who had to read all those posts and didn't want to.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


82 posted 01-12-2007 10:23 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Life is life
and in this country we give the right that life should be terminated
so long as it resides in the mother’s womb and is ended by her consent,
(the father’s opinion one way or another is ultimately irrelevant).

There are already six billion people in the world.  So let abortion take
the place of smallpox.

.
Denise
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83 posted 01-12-2007 10:37 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise


Check out this link.
http://www.abortionmarketingexposed.com/
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


84 posted 01-14-2007 04:02 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

ah, I see...

a slick marketing campaign complaining about the slick marketing campaigning of 'abortionists'

I love the method -- preach to the choir -- convince them their way of life is threatened -- give them someone to blame for that threat -- keep feeding the oxytocin to them -- get them to donate...

Do you really think what he's doing is fighting abortion on demand Denise?

Televangilism has become E-vangelism.
Denise
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85 posted 01-14-2007 12:26 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Yes I do, L.R.

Participation in the teleconference is free of charge except for the price of the phone call which could be long distance. If it is long distance for you and you can't afford it then you can use your cell phone if it has the nationwide local option and free nightime calling or you can opt to receive a tape of the teleconference, free, via email in about 24 hours afterwards, which is my option.

And David Kupelian is not a tele-evangelist. He is an author and also the managing director of worldnetdaily.

My sister sent me this link. She volunteers at a teenage crisis pregnancy center, for those who want options other than the abortion "choice" which is pushed by Planned Parenthood. And the counseling is free of charge to the girls and their parents.

She was informed by someone that used to work for Planned Parenthood that birth control pills are now available to teenage girls in high schools, without parental knowledge or consent (as is being put in contact with and scheduled for an abortion through Planned Parenthood), via the school nurse who can't even otherwise dispense an aspirin without parental consent. And that the pills are the lowest dose possible and do not offer the protection to these girls that they think they are getting, leading to more business for Planned Parenthood. They have even performed "abortions" on girls who were not pregnant, telling them that they were.

People need to learn as much as they can about this organization that purports to be helping people, when what they are really doing is creating and perpetuating the "problem pregnancies" that keep the cash flowing in.

If someone has a daughter whom they suspect is sexually active, it would be better to have a private ob/gyn counsel with her and perhaps prescribe a birth control pill that will work more effectively.

And if the teleconference sponsors ask for donations, well, it would be voluntary, and for a good cause. Better than the tactics of Planned Parenthood who require cash or credit cards up front first.
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
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86 posted 01-14-2007 06:17 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

If the information is so vital Denise -- why put up a very slick teaser and delay getting this information out until Tuesday -- I mean -- it could stop abortions in the meantime if he just posted it on the web -- he's obviously web capable and he has a web publication - he could run a story.

What's the significance of this 'conference call'?  Oxytocin.  Team building -- the feeling that you're a part of something -- a sharper division between 'us' and 'them'.

What you don't see -- because you're one of the 'us' in this case -- is that 'them' aint listening to him at all -- because he's calling 'them' the enemy.

This kind of activity does nothing but promote division -- not to mention the E-vangelist.
Denise
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87 posted 01-14-2007 07:24 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

It was on his website and in his book.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53760

He has also been on various talk shows.

This is a teleconference that he has organized for those who wish to know how they can help to get the truth out there more widely about the deceptive practices of the abortion industry.

After all, not everyone watches Fox News and the Christian Broadcasting Network or reads Wordnetdaily.

This type of activity might expose the truth that few know about unless someone organizes others and arms them with the information to share with others.
Local Rebel
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88 posted 01-14-2007 07:49 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

So he wants you to wait until Tuesday to start proselytizing?

he could youtube it, blog it, email it, shucks Denise -- by Tuesday he could have snail mailed it to you...

why a conference call?  why not just have a pre-recorded message you can call any time of day or night?

why do it THIS way?
Denise
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89 posted 01-14-2007 08:01 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Because thousands of people are expected to participate. Aren't most meetings anywhere preplanned ahead of time? It lets people clear their schedules, prioritize their obligations, get their thoughts in order. Nothing wrong with that as far as I can tell.
Local Rebel
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90 posted 01-14-2007 11:13 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Please explain the mechanics of this to me Denise -- thousands of people 'participating' in a teleconference --
you're all going to introduce yourselves to each other-- tell where each is from -- your favorite flavor of ice cream -- ?

how will this 'work'?

Essorant
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91 posted 01-15-2007 01:43 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Local Rebel

Why don't you participate and find out what it is and what it says, instead of trying to judge it according to your suspicians (however reasonable those may be)?  

I think a book deserves to be judged by more than just its cover.  

jbouder
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92 posted 01-15-2007 06:23 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

LR:

You're an engineer aren't you?  Don't you have to take continuing education courses to maintain your certification?  Aren't some conferences offered via internet feed or telephone for credit?  Don't hundreds of other engineers participate in such conferences?

I don't get it.  What's so tough to get about the mechanics of this guy's teleconference?

Jim
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93 posted 01-15-2007 07:26 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

The answer to your question Jim -- is yes -- there are teleseminars in engineering -- like this one for instance... http://www.ivthome.com/shop/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1865,  with the appropriate question and answer session -- but, no -- not for hundreds, and certainly not thousands of 'particiapants' -- how does one field questions from thousands of participants Jim?

I don't get that...

But, I do get why he wants to do it that way.... as I stated.

quote:

I think a book deserves to be judged by more than just its cover.



I understand where you're coming from here Ess -- but, in critical thinking axioms don't stand up under analysis any more than any other statement would.

While I'm standing in the checkout line at the supermarket and I read a tabloid headline "Armageddon will begin on February 14, as millions die in new St. Valentines Day massacre in Iraq" or "Angelina Jolie Pregnant by Space Alien -- Brad is Furious" there are evaluations that I can make about that tabloid.

When my local television station puts a teaser headline from the nightly news on a promo that goes something like "Child safety seat recall -- find out which one at 11" -- there are conclusions that I can draw from that.

What if I need to put my child in a safety seat before 11?  What if mine is the one that's been recalled?  Obviously this television station cares more about promoting its newscast than it does about the safety of my child.  Shouldn't that kind of information be disseminated immediately?

If we look critically at Kupelian -- he first of all claims that his information is going to finally bring an end to abortion once and for all.  Wow.  That's pretty big stuff.    

quote:

P.S.- This call will reveal shocking information that you won't want to miss!
We look forward to talking with you on the phone Tuesday evening, January 16th, at 9 PM Eastern (6 PM Pacific, 7 PM Mountain, 8 PM Central).



Wow!  Shocking information.  It's going to end abortion once and for all -- shouldn't we get started right away?  I don't know how long ago he put up that invitation -- but, Denise posted the link on the 12th.  He has important, urgent, critical information that's going to change the world on Friday.  But, it can wait until Tuesday.

In fact... we can read a can of peas, a can of carrots -- and we can judge what's inside.  

His shocking information -- the "abortion industries fraudulent marketing campaign" is this an argument against abortion at all?  

The pharmaceutical industry uses deceptive marketing -- they reformulate an existing drug when the patent runs out so they can get a new patent and lobby Doctors to prescribe the new drug that has no generic so they can protect their margins -- does this mean we don't need pharmaceuticals?

Denise's hearsay anecdotal evidence;

quote:

And that the pills are the lowest dose possible and do not offer the protection to these girls that they think they are getting, leading to more business for Planned Parenthood. They have even performed "abortions" on girls who were not pregnant, telling them that they were.



If we assume both are true -- it has no more bearing on the debate than Pharmacists diluting cancer medications would have on a debate about whether or not humans need to take medicine.

He's merely building an ad-hominem attack instead of making logical arguments.

Ad-hominem attacks are great for preaching to the choir, building a team,  and consolidating power -- (and selling books and raising money) but don't really convince your opposition of anything at all.

Why do I need a 70-minute seminar to tell me how to tell my friends about Kupelian's books and articles?  

After all, Laura Schlessinger infers the very existence of our country is at stake..

Why wait till Tuesday?


Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


94 posted 01-15-2007 09:33 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

Rebel, I agree with you 100%. I can't stand Televangilism and people like that. You're right, if the information was that conclusive and important then it should be posted. He's promoting himself.

And I said to the devil, "You better leave my spleen alone."

rwood
Member Elite
since 02-29-2000
Posts 3797
Tennessee


95 posted 01-15-2007 09:50 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

I may be wrong, but most teenage girls reflect on most serious things for about 5 seconds and then move on to something else. Even with entertainment, they still take about 5 to 10 cell phone calls, eat microwave pizza, do their nails, and find anything remotely responsible to be a complete and utter bummer to their day.

They might be caught by the highlighted fractions of statements, but I agree. He's pushing his book.

If the teleseminar helps at least one, it's a positive thing, but not if it's a lead to take advantage of those that are at a disadvantage in making wise decisions.
Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


96 posted 01-15-2007 10:09 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

[It sounds like that's what you're saying. If the child dies, it’s the negligence of the “parent.”  

When did I say that? I said if they have the child and they are in the streets and they can't take care of the child nor get the child somewhere safe , the child could die.]

I didn’t say that you said that. I said that I said it. If a child dies (unless by a disease or illness) then it’s the parent’s fault. If a child is hit by a bus, the parent wasn't watching him. If a little girl gets kidnapped, the parent wasn’t watching her. Plain and simple.

"O.K first off teens(thirteen year olds and others) should not be having children because they are too young and should be going to school and going to movies and going to parties and growing up. It doesn't have to do with being uninteligent(which they are not) or being immature(which some aren't) while they may not be mature enough or knowledgeable enough to handle a child, that isn't why they shouldn't have it.”

Well, for one thing, you seem very mature and intelligent for your age. But mostly kids that age aren’t as bright as you. When I say they aren’t intelligent enough, I mean they aren’t smart enough to care for another human being, especially a newborn. And I agree, kids should not be having sex and getting pregnant.

“One way a unborn child dies the other a mothers life is destroyed maybe.”

How do you figure?
1.Trauma
2. responsibility
3. loss of innoncence\child hood
4 guilt for giving the child up if they choose to do so, that it is their flesh and blood they are giving up.”

Ok.
#1. Yes, the trauma of finding out she's pregnant would be immense.
#2. If they are choose to have sex, then they need to know that they have to be RESPONSIBLE enough to take care of their child.
#3. Loss of innocence? If a young girl is having sex, her innocence is pretty much gone to begin with, that you can’t argue.
#4. You think the guilt of giving her baby away would hurt her? What do you think the guilt of aborting the child would do? Most women deeply regret aborting.

“ANd gangs aren't going to let the offspring of someone affliated with them or with them get out of the slums.”

You seem to only talk about gangs. How do you feel about a suburbanite aborting her baby because she doesn’t feel like having it?

“Should of clarified that , I meant a child wandering into the crossfire or having the ones fighting go near where the child is not paying attention.”

Rhea, that is my point. Why would a responsible or even rational person let their little child wander around in a neighborhood that is known to have gunfights? And children never pay attention. They don’t know what attention is. It’s the parent that’s not paying attention but should.

“its the mother it doesn't sound like you care about.”

I suppose it may sound that way, but it’s not true. I care very deeply for mothers and women and everyone for that matter. I grew up with my mom, two sisters and aunts, so I’m closer to women than anyone else. I respect women, and I think women who consider abortions need to respect the child inside them, the person within them.

“Oh really, than why are the any kids living on the streets.”

Why are there over 200,000 homeless people in New York? These questions don’t always have answers.

“Its her body.YEs it is, Shes the one who has to go through having the baby and caring for it till she gets it to a place that will take it if she can get the child there.”

Yes it’s her body but you have to understand; the human inside her is not her life. The life inside of her is a totally different human life. Yes, she and a man created the child but the child is a separate entity, a separate person. She and the father have the obligation to protect the child.

“and just doesn't want to have the baby.”

What if she has the child and after five years she doesn’t want her kid anymore? Does she have the right to kill her kid? I know I’ve said this before, I feel that we’re repeating ourselves.

“Curious, How would you know?”

I dealt with DCF as a kid. I know for a fact that they help children get out of horrible situations in life.

“Um no, if the woman has cancer or the baby will be born with cancer or if there are complications to the birth.”

Yes but that’s cancer, not abortion. The child can still be helped maybe and if not, then who are we to play God? Who are we to say this person should die because it would be better that way? When did people decide that they have the right to take lives away and play God?

“If he wants us to learn well people learned during the holocaust he could of stepped in”

No He couldn’t of. He gave everyone free will and it’s their decision how to use it, good or bad. If God interfered with the life of this world then we wouldn’t be free. I see why you say that and I too have felt this way but it’s for the best that He doesn’t.

“And I am sorry about all those posts i was trying to take care of each thing one at a time but for now on I'll just post in one big thing.”

I don’t care, as long as you get out all your thoughts.

And I said to the devil, "You better leave my spleen alone."

Edward Grim
Senior Member
since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


97 posted 01-15-2007 10:12 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

Huan...

"Life is life"

You say that like it's no big deal.

"and in this country we give the right that life should be terminated
so long as it resides in the mother’s womb and is ended by her consent."

Yes this country gives that right but does that make it the right thing to do? Do you agree with every "right" this country gives?

"There are already six billion people in the world.  So let abortion take
the place of smallpox."

So women should kill their babies for population control? I shutter to think.

Thanks

And I said to the devil, "You better leave my spleen alone."

Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 07-31-2000
Posts 3496
Statesboro, GA, USA


98 posted 01-15-2007 10:21 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

LR:
quote:
he could youtube it, blog it, email it, shucks Denise -- by Tuesday he could have snail mailed it to you...

why a conference call?  why not just have a pre-recorded message you can call any time of day or night?

why do it THIS way?



Any one of these alternative ways of communication you mentioned can be used for self promotion and greed.  So I'm not so sure about judging motive based on any of these, including an "E-conference".  


I'm not defending this guy or his ideas (as I am unfamiliar with him), but just saying, respectfully, I think you might be nitpicking.  If it were something to defend the "rights" of women to abort, would you still discount it sight unseen?


Stephen.
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


99 posted 01-15-2007 10:52 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Sure he can use them for self-promotion -- but he can also get the information out instantly -- which is what one would expect if this information has the kind of impact that he claims.

And, I get spam all the time from orgainizations that want to protect womens' rights -- they use sensational headlines to try to get me to click in -- but -- last time I looked -- those rights are already protected.  They get clicked -- right into the spam zone.

 
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