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Abortion

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Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


50 posted 12-31-2006 12:45 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Let's review Edward.

What's causing you to not get anywhere is your constant equivocation.

You were going to debate my website, which I prepared and documented -- for anyone in the world to see and debate if so inclined.  You've yet to make a single argument about my website.

Instead -- you make declarative statements without documentation or even logical construction.  

I'm answering your questions and asking more questions in order to attempt to put together your argument.  Once you have an argument then this will be a debate.
Edward Grim
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since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


51 posted 12-31-2006 12:59 AM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

"What's causing you to not get anywhere is your constant equivocation."

Lol, I'm ambiguous? Me? You can't answer a damn question and I'm ambiguous?!

"You were going to debate my website, which I prepared and documented"

When did I say that? [edited]

"You've yet to make a single argument about my website."

[edited] I want to talk about abortion! Read the thread header!

"Instead -- you make declarative statements without documentation or even logical construction."

Which of my statements are illogical hawky?

"I'm answering your questions and asking more questions"

Which questions do you answer? I can maybe count three or four.

"in order to attempt to put together your argument.  Once you have an argument then this will be a debate."

I've got an arguement and you don't want any of it

[This message has been edited by Ron (12-31-2006 01:22 AM).]

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


52 posted 12-31-2006 01:48 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

When did I say that?



Yet more equivocation... but, I'll answer just for the occasional reader who doesn't have the background...

right here; http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum6/HTML/001464-2.html#42

you did insult me (again) to which I challeneged you to 'Debate it'.

Which you accepted -- we all speak English.

Your intent was to debate my views on abortion -- as posted on my website.

Instead -- you've regaled us with declarations based on presuppositions to which we all have not agreed.

quote:

My approach to the subject is very simple and it always has been. "Is a human life being destroyed?" Yes "Is someone, say... the mother, destroying a life?" Yes "So life is being prevented?" Yes "Is it killing?" Yes



Very simple -- yes it is --

'Is a human life being destroyed?' is the central question of the abortion issue, and merely answering yes is not making an argument.

Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
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since 07-31-2000
Posts 3496
Statesboro, GA, USA


53 posted 12-31-2006 03:39 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Ed:
quote:
Listen, if you're just going to answer questions with more questions then we won't get anywhere.

Why don't you directly answer anything?


Ed, you shouldn't be surprised at this in a forum like this.  Ever studied Socrates?  Questions are a great way to reveal the weaknesses and strengths of arguments.  It's a good method as long as it doesn't denigrate into the skepticism of the sophists.


Reb,

More about abortion later.  I'm on my break at work, and it's almost up!


Stephen.
Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


54 posted 12-31-2006 09:29 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

The fact is once there is humanlife with its own human body, that is a human being.  

That is now his or her human life and human body as a human being, not just a sperm, zygote, or a body part in the mother.  The fact of him or her still being in the womb, and being so dependant on the mother doesn't make any difference to the fact.  The child out of the womb is so dependant on the mother's choices too.  

Human life + Human body = Human being.  

You can't change that.  People only complicate the issue so far that they may no longer see or face the simple truths anymore.


Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


55 posted 12-31-2006 05:44 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Let’s add another consideration; that being that abortion may
also be an element in a culture committing a subtle form of suicide.
I’m thinking of Europe where several nations are facing a projected
severe decline in their populations which can only be made up
by the immigration of those who do not share their cultural
values.


.
rwood
Member Elite
since 02-29-2000
Posts 3797
Tennessee


56 posted 01-01-2007 11:01 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

Stephen~

quote:
You're probably aware that I myself don't think religious ideas need to be completely divorced from Government.  (thankfully they never have, since even our concept of human rights is religiously based)  But that being said, it can be wrongly applied, abused, and taken too far.


Yes, and I respect your consistency, and I can agree with you with what you mention and certain aspects that religion advocates, such as: "The golden rule." Though hunter gatherers got that right part of the time.

But I can't forget my existence here in America is partially due to my ancestors fleeing religious persecution. We can get it all too wrong.

That's why I feel any democracy that might cater to my religious beliefs is terribly faulty.

Religions are not democratic. Each feels they are higher on the ladder in God's favor than the other.

and when I apply this to the thought of abortion, I cringe, because no matter how wrong I think it is, I cannot rule the conscience of another. That's why abortion is so easily debated at as right/wrong. The baby doesn't have a voice yet. A hardship/technicality of human growth and development.

Forgive me, I'm wrong, there are cases of aborted babies who lived. Correct me if I'm wrong again, but I think that children are rated 3rd as citizens. So their voices mean very little even after the fact, which is both necessary and extremely sad.  

quote:
whether abstinence teaching or contraception teaching is best remains open, seeing that both practices would lead to a decrease in unwanted pregnancies.


Amen. It would also help our daughters immensely if they were more empowered with a deeper sense of self-esteem and self-respect. Everyone makes better choices when they are in a better frame of mind to do so.

Dearest Reb:

Yes, it's been a long time, though I read here, often, and I enjoy the views. Thank you. Abortion is definitely a topic I don't shy away from.

quote:
if you think it would have made it better or worse for you if Roe V. Wade hadn't become the law of the land and you felt that you had no option at all.


Honestly, countless women prior to the Supreme Court's decision in Roe vs Wade found a way to abort, and if that was what I really wanted to do, I'm sure I would have found a way too. R vs V made it easier and safer, not sure about better when it comes to the mental and emotional suffering a woman privately endures.

Roe vs Wade is a lesson for both sides to me, due to the issues of (McCorvey's) rape, fight for an abortion, recant of rape, full term birth,(due to the time taken by the courts) and then her conversion as a pro-lifer and her claims of being a pawn for ambitious lawyers. Whew! BUT: Personal freedom was established, on paper.

No matter what's on that paper--I will do whatever I feel I have to do for me and my own.

I may suffer, I will suffer, I do suffer, but it's my choice, or I'm put in a position where I have to make a choice, alone.

quote:
Obviously there are faiths and denominations that render women to second class status when it comes to the theological, and an ancient overlap of religious systems and government would extend that into personal liberty as well in some systems.

What do you find the present climate, in this system, this country, and Tennessee to be for women?



Great question. My answer for all three categories is: We live in a patriarchal and male dominated society.

You can find that in our politics, religion, the NASDAQ and private sectors of business, and our social stratification and structuralism of the "ideal family."

So, I make my own climate. I pursue life (as though I have the same rights) as anyone else. Sometimes I run into a haze, heat, or a storm, just like everyone else, maybe for different reasons. But we all need a lesson from time to time.

Tennessee presents as much opportunity as anywhere else I've lived. It's easy to say that the south has more obstacles with their bible belt mindset, but that's unfair. It's stigmatized that way and the only way to grow past that is to remain steadfast and dedicated to betterment. I see the women here trying, along with me, to better themselves whether there's ready support or not.

quote:
Given your later comments about ensoulment and birth control -- I'm also wondering your views on birth control methods that prevent implantation vs. prevention of conception.



I'm sure implantation prevention evolved from embryo attachment in an ectopic situation -which is a serious and life threatening condition for women. So I can't rule that out if they have a history of it, but if conception is allowed, but then thwarted as an alternative means for birth control? That's just weird to me, to allow conception, but then no attachment. If I'm following the process correctly. I think that's playing a little too close to baby for me.


peace~
Reg
rhia_5779
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since 06-09-2006
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California


57 posted 01-10-2007 04:56 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

(It should be noted here that the most adamant pro-life proponents will claim 'miscarriage' means go into labor early and deliver a baby pre-maturely.


WHAT????? THat is THE stupidest thing I have ever heard. My cousins who are twins and three now were born three months early,but they lived and are fine. They talk,and walk and did everything at pretty much normal late, the girl was a little late in talking but she was born really tiny. Just because they are premature does not mean any harm is done.

I think it should be women's choice whether to have the baby or not.THey are the ones who have to have it. If it is not a good enviroment for the child to grow up in or they are a child when they get pregnant they really should abort.  Why have the child when the child might grow up only knowing drugs and gangs when in a couple years when they are old enought to be legal adults they will be in a  safer place and be able to care for a child as the child deserves. If they  are a teen why save that one life then when in the end the child will grow up with a mother who is barely not a child herself and in the end the mother may lose her life too,after all she will be up at midnight taking care of a baby when she should be sleeping to go to highschool.

Also if women are raped I think they should have the option not to have a nother mans baby. Is that really fair to punish them and the child because the father commited a crime ?

Think about it, most kids get adopted young and if kids have been involved in drugs or gangs because they didn't know any better who will adopt them. Friends of mine , neighbors actually in Italy, the girls are adopted. Two girls fourteen and twelve, but they were adopted really early. They had first birthdays with their adopted parents. Had they been older than say 6-7 their chances would of been way less.BUt most young parents or people who put their kids for adoption  may not be able to get to a place to have their kids adopted before the child get too old. Say they have a kid, the kid and they are doing fine till the child is about 4. The mom gets fired or kicked into the streets the kid grows up with gangsters and drug dealers and killers. Then she finally gets out of the slums when the kid is turning eight, she worked to get them out and she decides to put the kid up for adoption so they could go to school and turn out good, but the kid at 8 , they arent so cute anymore, they aren't tiny, they aren't overly bright. Without that most people wouldn't look twice at the kid. The kid would grow up in an orphanage and maybe when they turn 18 goto the streets again.

Had she waited and not had the kid maybe she would be living in a good area, have a steady income , have friends and family ,support and she could take care of the kid.
rhia_5779
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since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


58 posted 01-10-2007 05:38 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

God's acts of taking life are based upon righteous judgement, rather than murderous intent.


Sorry just want to hear how you can say that. Was God's act of taking life based on righteous judgment during the holoacaust, siearra leone civil war,darfur, stalins killings, wars,gang wars, Columbine such like that. What was right about taking those live?
When did the  innocent children during the holocaust commit a crime worthy of death, worthy of being deprived the right to grow up have children, be someone?  

How can God justify mutilating and killing all those children during the Diamond wars? Making those children die  in diamond mines and in battle before they were even out of middle school?

Why do the women and children and men deserve to die in darfur ? Is that righteous?
Stalin really had the right to massacre as many as he did?

I am sure the soldiers fighting in Iraq will feel mighty comforted by hearing that because God feels it may be right he might take their lives any old time at random.

What about the young teens who die in gang wars because they were taught nothing else?because no one cares to teach them..So they die for their ignorance?

What about Columbine? The sisters,brothers,friends,heroes,girlfriends,boy friends, students,  who died for their only crime being not being sick and deciding to go to school that day?

Are  car accident deaths right, why should a baby and a working mother die because a drunk driver decides to have a night of fun with alchol and still drive the next day?

What  about freak accidents where children make a mistake and drown or fall out of a tree or play a sport and slip up with a little thing but they fall and don't ever get up?

Righteaous

Definiton
Morally right or justifiable,virtous


Is it morally right for God to try and justify taking away any of those lives.
What about a little girl,, who loved to laugh and smile, who could charm anyone, a child who touched everyone did she deserve to die?
A five year old who already knew what she wanted in life who only wanted to be alive, whose only mistake was - playing tag with her six year old brother near an elevator when he tried to tag her and she fell beneath the elevator and it smashed her, was it really right to deprive her of the thing she loved  most ?  

That child was my best friend. I personally cannot honestly take the words, fair,right,virtous, righteaous,correct, morale , for the best , and apply any of that to her death or do the situations I discribed. Hopefully neither can you.

Does even God have the right to take innocent lives and call it righteous?
People die, God takes their lives ..Yes but is it justified by anything..NO.. What ever reasons there are if any for them to be dying at this moment are not known to us and never will be.
The best we can do as humans is use the one gift we were given ,ability to adapt and change with new ideas.
Dying is a part of life. Dying is fair only in that it doesn't take lives because of race,religion,age, intelligence, background,hopes, or dreams. But it isn't fair to those that go on.
You could say its fair because it doesn't choose or that everyone has a time but for the sake of the loved ones lost the most we can do is not believe it right so we have the willpower to fight death for the ones who still have yet to live.

rhia_5779
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since 06-09-2006
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California


59 posted 01-10-2007 05:42 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

If the child wasn't aborted, would he have been born and have grown up and got married and had kids of his own and live and be a human being? YES!

Wrong, if she isn't aborted she has the chance to grow up in a bad situation to die of O.D to live in the slums, to not become anything solely because she doesn't know there is anything else to be. If she is aborted, maybe later the mother will have another child, and they will get those chances. It won't be the same but she can only support one and the second actually is allowed to dream there is something out there and to think it is in reach.
rhia_5779
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since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


60 posted 01-10-2007 05:48 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

If you get in a car accident, God forbid , and you have to be put on life support and oxygen and are incapable of living without the hookups are you still a human? Or did you magically transform into something else?

If you are and you don't want to live any longer would you consider euthansia and assisted suicide wrong? If a doctor helps someone like that kill themself , is that doctor wrong.If a doctor helps kill the child because the mother is going to die if she has the child and maybe the child will too, is the doctor still wrong.


So you will save the child and sacrifice the mothers right? Is that equal either.

Edward Grim
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since 12-18-2005
Posts 1112
Greenville, South Carolina


61 posted 01-10-2007 07:46 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

Wow, you must like replying. Well, I’ll try to reply to your four posts in one long one, lol. You made some interesting statements and I’ll try to cover them all. I hope you have enough time to read it, I wrote quite a bit. Thanks

“I think it should be women's choice whether to have the baby or not.THey are the ones who have to have it.”

So should they also have the right to kill their children whenever they want? What you’re saying is, the mother birthed the kid so she can do whatever she wants with it. So if her five-year-old won’t behave in a restaurant, can the mother kill the child? I think not. No person relentless of their title (mother, father, general, soldier, leader, no one)  has the right to take another’s life.

“If it is not a good enviroment for the child to grow up in or they are a child when they get pregnant they really should abort.“

That’s an awful thing to think. If that was the case, then hardly any babies would get to live. That is a complete lack of respect for human life. “Oh, I have a car payment and the mortgage is really getting on top of me, I might as well abort my baby, and maybe leave my toddler in a dumpster and sell my teenager to a pimp.” Does that sound right?

“Why have the child when the child might grow up only knowing drugs and gangs when in a couple years when they are old enought to be legal adults they will be in a  safer place and be able to care for a child as the child deserves. If they  are a teen why save that one life then when in the end the child will grow up with a mother who is barely not a child herself and in the end the mother may lose her life too,after all she will be up at midnight taking care of a baby when she should be sleeping to go to highschool.”

Ok, I’m trying to decipher this. The first part about the drugs: If the parent is negligent and exposes their child to drugs then there you have it. So the key is to raise them correctly. The second part: I guess you mean the mother should wait to grow up. Maybe this says that teenagers shouldn’t be having sex. I can’t get in trouble saying this because I’m a teenager myself: Teenagers are irresponsible and dense. They think they should have the right to do certain things but they don’t and they can’t seem to understand that.

“Also if women are raped I think they should have the option not to have a nother mans baby.”

The sentence I agree with in a different way. If a women is raped she should have the decision whether or not to RAISE the child. She has no right to kill him/her.

““Is that really fair to punish them and the child because the father commited a crime ?”

Is it fair to kill the child for something the father did? I’ve said this again and again. Adoption agencies are not myths. Leaving a child with a hospital or fire station or church is not an awful thing, it’s better then killing.

“Think about it, most kids get adopted young and if kids have been involved in drugs or gangs because they didn't know any better who will adopt them”

There are government programs to help those kids. There are people to take them in.

“she worked to get them out and she decides to put the kid up for adoption so they could go to school and turn out good, but the kid at 8 , they arent so cute anymore, they aren't tiny, they aren't overly bright. Without that most people wouldn't look twice at the kid.”

You need to realize that you are thinking in an extremely cynical way. Children are not puppies. People don’t just adopt because the kids are all cute and cuddly. They adopt because they know another human being needs them. They adopt so that the child can grow up knowing a family.

“Had she waited and not had the kid maybe she would be living in a good area, have a steady income , have friends and family ,support and she could take care of the kid.”

Correct, “had she waited.” That is on the money. People should not be having children is they aren’t able to support them, it’s downright irresponsible.


“Was God's act of taking life based on righteous judgment during the holoacaust, siearra leone civil war,darfur, stalins killings, wars,gang wars, Columbine such like that. What was right about taking those live?”

Do you honestly think that killing was from God!? How can you think that? Did God invade Poland and send Jews to the Auschwitz? No it was Hitler. Is God responsible for Stalin’s killings? No you said it yourself, Stalin is. Did God hold up the Columbine school? No, some messed up kids did.

“When did the  innocent children during the holocaust commit a crime worthy of death, worthy of being deprived the right to grow up have children, be someone?”

I absolutely love that you said this. This is my point exactly. What crime did a child commit to deserve to be aborted, to be ‘deprived the right to grow up have children, be someone?’

“How can God justify mutilating and killing all those children during the Diamond wars? Making those children die  in diamond mines and in battle before they were even out of middle school?”

Like I said, God didn’t do that. I don’t know how you can think such a thing. Did God send the kids to mine for diamonds? NO!!! And if you ask: “ Well, why didn’t He do anything about it?” Because He gave us free will and said He wouldn’t interfere with our lives.

“Are  car accident deaths right, why should a baby and a working mother die because a drunk driver decides to have a night of fun with alchol and still drive the next day?”

Are you kidding? There is a reason it’s called an accident. Some people don’t drive well and some horrid people drink and drive. It’s not about fairness.

“Dying is a part of life. Dying is fair only in that it doesn't take lives because of race,religion,age, intelligence, background,hopes, or dreams.”

So is it fair to abort children? You said it’s not right to die under those conditions so how can it possibly be right to kill a child? Dying is a part of life, a part that God has nothing to do with. He has a part with you after you die. Contrary to what you said, God is not going around with a shotgun killing people. God doesn’t kill people, people kill people.

“Wrong, if she isn't aborted she has the chance to grow up in a bad situation to die of O.D to live in the slums, to not become anything solely because she doesn't know there is anything else to be.”

Then “she” shouldn’t have been kept there. Her parents should have had enough brains to take her away from that through adoption or any means necessary.  

And I said to the devil, "You better leave my spleen alone."

rhia_5779
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since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


62 posted 01-11-2007 05:19 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

“I think it should be women's choice whether to have the baby or not.THey are the ones who have to have it.”

So should they also have the right to kill their children whenever they want? What you’re saying is, the mother birthed the kid so she can do whatever she wants with it. So if her five-year-old won’t behave in a restaurant, can the mother kill the child? I think not. No person relentless of their title (mother, father, general, soldier, leader, no one)  has the right to take another’s life.

What if the mother is say 13 my age or fourteen or younger than 18? do they still have the baby? Is that fair to the mother or too the child?
Sounds like you don't care about the mother or the child and to you it only matters whether the child lives to be born ,not whether it lives to turn 1 or lives to go to school or any of that.
I don't think your solution or mine is the perfect fix. One way a unborn child dies the other a mothers life is destroyed maybe.

O.k, killing is wrong. But if it is wrong for abortion then why is it o.k to kill in a war we didn't need to have?
How can our country justify killing innocents who are born  but we refuse to give a women a choice that she deserves to make because she aborts her child?
rhia_5779
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63 posted 01-11-2007 05:24 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

“If it is not a good enviroment for the child to grow up in or they are a child when they get pregnant they really should abort.“

That’s an awful thing to think. If that was the case, then hardly any babies would get to live. That is a complete lack of respect for human life. “Oh, I have a car payment and the mortgage is really getting on top of me, I might as well abort my baby, and maybe leave my toddler in a dumpster and sell my teenager to a pimp.” Does that sound right?

THis is differnt if the mother got pregnant through a gang related thing or lives in the streets do you really want to make the mother put her blood through what she goes through? Could you really stomach watching a child be born and 2 years later have the child get got in gang war and shot?
I have lost alot of people who didnt deserve to die and it ain't fun. I'd rather lose the child I never knew than have the child and love thm and know them, then watch drunk teens get mad and start fighting and shoot up my child because they were shooting on my street.
rhia_5779
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since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


64 posted 01-11-2007 05:28 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

Why have the child when the child might grow up only knowing drugs and gangs when in a couple years when they are old enought to be legal adults they will be in a  safer place and be able to care for a child as the child deserves. If they  are a teen why save that one life then when in the end the child will grow up with a mother who is barely not a child herself and in the end the mother may lose her life too,after all she will be up at midnight taking care of a baby when she should be sleeping to go to highschool.”

Ok, I’m trying to decipher this. The first part about the drugs: If the parent is negligent and exposes their child to drugs then there you have it. So the key is to raise them correctly. The second part: I guess you mean the mother should wait to grow up. Maybe this says that teenagers shouldn’t be having sex. I can’t get in trouble saying this because I’m a teenager myself: Teenagers are irresponsible and dense. They think they should have the right to do certain things but they don’t and they can’t seem to understand that.


REality check  not everyone can choose everything about what is going to happen . What if she lives with a on drugs father and abused mother or the boyfriend or who lives with her is a drug dealer or a druggie or she is addicted to drugs? So expose them to that. Well if they are going to be having sex then be safe about it.  I don't see anything right about if no one is getting pregnant of anything.  What if its too late and the mother is already pregnant , what if she won't be able to have the child and raise it right
rhia_5779
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since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


65 posted 01-11-2007 05:29 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

Also if women are raped I think they should have the option not to have a nother mans baby.”

The sentence I agree with in a different way. If a women is raped she should have the decision whether or not to RAISE the child. She has no right to kill him/her.


THe child probaly won't get adopted the chances aren't that high. What if she'd rather spare the child growing up motherless and in an orphanage?
rhia_5779
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since 06-09-2006
Posts 1304
California


66 posted 01-11-2007 05:30 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

“Is that really fair to punish them and the child because the father commited a crime ?”

Is it fair to kill the child for something the father did? I’ve said this again and again. Adoption agencies are not myths. Leaving a child with a hospital or fire station or church is not an awful thing, it’s better then killing.

O.k leave the child where everyone around has something elese to do and really doesn't care and let them end up dying anyway. But what if the mother doesn't want to have the child
rhia_5779
Senior Member
since 06-09-2006
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67 posted 01-11-2007 05:31 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

“Think about it, most kids get adopted young and if kids have been involved in drugs or gangs because they didn't know any better who will adopt them”

There are government programs to help those kids. There are people to take them in.

The govt could care less about street kids, long as eventually they vote for them and give money.  People who would disregarding background age and race are few and far in between
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68 posted 01-11-2007 05:33 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

“she worked to get them out and she decides to put the kid up for adoption so they could go to school and turn out good, but the kid at 8 , they arent so cute anymore, they aren't tiny, they aren't overly bright. Without that most people wouldn't look twice at the kid.”

You need to realize that you are thinking in an extremely cynical way. Children are not puppies. People don’t just adopt because the kids are all cute and cuddly. They adopt because they know another human being needs them. They adopt so that the child can grow up knowing a family.

Count up , actually no. The children more likely will get adopted for being cute. There are more people who get attached and decide oh lets go adopt a cute kid. than people who do it to be helping
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69 posted 01-11-2007 05:34 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

And if they are raped or didn't mean to or are young?
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70 posted 01-11-2007 05:35 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

Was God's act of taking life based on righteous judgment during the holoacaust, siearra leone civil war,darfur, stalins killings, wars,gang wars, Columbine such like that. What was right about taking those live?”

Do you honestly think that killing was from God!? How can you think that? Did God invade Poland and send Jews to the Auschwitz? No it was Hitler. Is God responsible for Stalin’s killings? No you said it yourself, Stalin is. Did God hold up the Columbine school? No, some messed up kids did.


You guys are the ones who made the point about god taking lives righteously. And that wasn't so much directed at you but asking the ones who originally said it
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71 posted 01-11-2007 05:36 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

When did the  innocent children during the holocaust commit a crime worthy of death, worthy of being deprived the right to grow up have children, be someone?”

I absolutely love that you said this. This is my point exactly. What crime did a child commit to deserve to be aborted, to be ‘deprived the right to grow up have children, be someone?’

If the mother might die having the child
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72 posted 01-11-2007 05:37 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

How can God justify mutilating and killing all those children during the Diamond wars? Making those children die  in diamond mines and in battle before they were even out of middle school?”

Like I said, God didn’t do that. I don’t know how you can think such a thing. Did God send the kids to mine for diamonds? NO!!! And if you ask: “ Well, why didn’t He do anything about it?” Because He gave us free will and said He wouldn’t interfere with our lives.

um, yah but we could of used some interfering and the rest of the Freakin world just stood by..Cowards..

ANd I repeat that was for the ones who mentioned the God taking lives thing
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73 posted 01-11-2007 05:37 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

Are  car accident deaths right, why should a baby and a working mother die because a drunk driver decides to have a night of fun with alchol and still drive the next day?”

Are you kidding? There is a reason it’s called an accident. Some people don’t drive well and some horrid people drink and drive. It’s not about fairness.


FIne neither is abortion then.
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74 posted 01-11-2007 05:38 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

“Dying is a part of life. Dying is fair only in that it doesn't take lives because of race,religion,age, intelligence, background,hopes, or dreams.”

So is it fair to abort children? You said it’s not right to die under those conditions so how can it possibly be right to kill a child? Dying is a part of life, a part that God has nothing to do with. He has a part with you after you die. Contrary to what you said, God is not going around with a shotgun killing people. God doesn’t kill people, people kill people.

God is the all powerful one. Stop it then.
 
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