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Passions in Poetry

To Be a Man

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Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


0 posted 12-19-2006 08:45 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,237605,00.html

.


“the time that would have been necessary to write and produce 10 great songs to send off a series that over 30 years taught lots of little boys like us how to fight, how to take the punches that life would throw at us and, ultimately, how to be men.”


I was lucky, I had my father as an example.
What is/are the guides now?

John

P.S.

And how is being a man these days
in Western culture different from being a woman?
Anyone willing to jump on that grenade?


.

latearrival
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since 03-21-2003
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1 posted 12-21-2006 02:14 AM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

John, Been waiting for the guys to jump in on this one. Interesting. As a wife and  mother I had always resented the Sunday horseshoe playing brothers of my husband only because I thought they taught my boys that to be a man was to play horseshoes and drink beer, to play cards and drink beer.To do anything together meant beer drinking. I should now ask the men my boys are now what their thoughts are.I know they all learned fair play and how to lose with dignity from their Dad but what else? Thanks for the idea.  martyjo
hush
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since 05-27-2001
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2 posted 12-23-2006 06:01 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

John, I'm interested in this, especially man vs. woman in our society today, as I did a term paper exploring an aspect of that question... but, obviously, as it was a term paper, I have a lot to say on it. Maybe I can dig something up... I don't feel like retyping all that. But there's obviously more than that one aspect of the situation, and I'm surprised nobody else ahs bitten...
hush
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3 posted 12-23-2006 06:10 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Rape myths can be described as “prejudicial, stereotyped, or false beliefs about rape, rape victims, and rapists” (Burt as quoted in Kassing et al, 2005, p. 313). Rape myths are classified into categories: (a) Males are too physically strong to be overpowered and raped; (b) men typically initiate and control sexual activity, so they are not targets of sexual assault; (c) males victims of rape lose their manhood; (d) sexual assault rarely occurs to males; (e) male victims should be able to cope with the experience by themselves; (f) male rape does not occur outside prison; and (g) a victim’s erection and/or ejaculation implies their consent (Kassing et al, 2005). McEvoy (n.d.) presents additional rape myths: (a) Adult men who are raped are usually gay or bisexual, and (b) if the perpetrator does not ejaculate, it was not truly rape.

These rape myths pertaining to men are a pervasive part of our society and result in harsher judgment of male rape victims as demonstrated by the study published by Smith et al (1988). The results of this study showed that when study participants were presented with four different sexual assault scenarios – female assault by male, female assault by female, male assault by male, and male assault by female – the male victims in general and the male victims of female assailants in particular were rated to be more at fault for their assaults and less likely to suffer adverse effects or emotional trauma. One male study participant jotted on his survey, “some guys have all the luck” (Smith et al, 1988, p. 110), indicating that at least some males wouldn’t even consider the sexual assault an assault, rather, a “lucky” event in the man’s life. The results of this study suggest male victims of rape were likely to experience damaging effects because of the existence of male rape myths and that these myths are embedded in deep-seated sociocultural attitudes and gender roles.

Gender role expectations and stereotypes affect the male victim of sexual assault or rape. Dimock (as cited in Winder, 1996) found that a characteristic of male victims is “masculine identity confusion” (para. 4) which can take two forms: Confusion about sexual preference and confusion about male roles. This confusion, coupled with harsh social judgment, may lead to feelings of guilt for not living up to society’s expectation of men. This guilt and fear of social repercussions are factors in male underreporting.

From Amy's super-sweet term paper... See sexism and inequality among the sexes does affect us all.
hush
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4 posted 01-02-2007 06:29 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Apparently gender studies are only interesting when they are women's studies... which never ceases to amaze me. I think a hugely neglected area of study/discussion is how men are negatively affected by sexism and gender role stereotypes.
Huan Yi
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5 posted 01-02-2007 06:37 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Any man is supposed to be a
mindless rutting beast
otherwise a whole range of assumptions
fall apart
and we can’t have that.


.
Local Rebel
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6 posted 01-02-2007 11:40 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

I was lucky, I had my father as an example.
What is/are the guides now?



My son just came to me to configure the WLAN on his PSP.

Jack Black and his old man inspired him to take up drums.

I think he just graduated from Anime to Dr. Who.

He loves the Three Stooges.

quote:

And how is being a man these days
in Western culture different from being a woman?
Anyone willing to jump on that grenade?



How can anyone possibly answer this question with the exception of a transexual?
Local Rebel
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7 posted 01-02-2007 11:46 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

Apparently gender studies are only interesting when they are women's studies... which never ceases to amaze me. I think a hugely neglected area of study/discussion is how men are negatively affected by sexism and gender role stereotypes.



I would be interested in what other areas you've explored too.  I don't think most men reading about male rape are going to disagree with what you've presented -- but, I also don't think they're going to readily relate to it Amy.
Stephanos
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8 posted 01-02-2007 11:55 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Um, I'm not sure I'm buyin' the case for "equal time" for male rape.  


I don't mean to get to graphic here, but it seems our physiology would have a lot to do with it.  A woman need not be sexually aroused to be violated, while a man would.  Am I missing something here, or is heavy petting considered rape too?  I guess any sexual assault is considered essentially the same thing as rape.  It just doesn't seem that it would happen nearly as often.  Is someone twisting the Stats here Amy, or is it really substantiated?  


An issue (I must confess) I haven't looked into.


(Well, I guess male rape is more an issue, if you count that the perpetrators would be mostly male)


Stephen.  

[This message has been edited by Stephanos (01-03-2007 12:00 AM).]

Stephanos
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9 posted 01-03-2007 12:12 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Amy, I guess what I'm trying to say (I don't want you to misunderstand) is that even these "rape myths" you mentioned, may be based upon something true?  I mean male rape IS a less frequent occurence than female rape, right?


Stephen.
Mysteria
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10 posted 01-03-2007 01:21 AM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Stephanos, 1 in 10 rapes are actually men I was told while working with rape victims for a long time. I would bet if there were no stigma attached to reporting it and becoming a statistic, the number would be a lot higher.  More than one group I had was more men than women.  You may find the following link interesting reading actually.  Here you go...
The Hathor Legacy

I continue to read this with interest.
serenity blaze
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11 posted 01-03-2007 06:00 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

My father worked graveyard shift.

My mother worked when, and I do mean when, ever she could.

Shrug.

We all grew up, knowing how to fake with a right, dab with a left, fake, fake, the right and slam with the left, uppercut right and then y'just picked up somethin' BIG, slammed their head like a cabbage ball and ran like hell.

And that was just the people we LOVED.

We never stopped to ask about genitalia. We just KICKED.

you were saying?

shaking my head at yer generalizations...if I am allowed ONE, you would not have survived a single stickball game.

Irish Channel, born, bred, and interspersed...and just a touch of comanche.

LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


12 posted 01-03-2007 09:07 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

•One quality of a man is spiritual happiness:  to know and trust that, somehow, there is always some good that can be found in any situation.

•A good man owns a knowledge which prompts him to treat the pain of others, as if it were his own

•He would never consider knowingly harming anyone at any time, even if it meant his own needs might not be filled.

•He owns a spirit of justice along with humbleness

•He is confident in himself enough to enjoy the company he keeps with self.

•He fears not being alone, or would not practice infidelity to others, as he knowingly realizes that would mean infidelity to self…

•He doesn’t fear sharing his happiness, as well as his weaknesses…

•If he owns respect for self, he will own respect for others

•He realizes man is not perfect, owning patience and understanding for all…

•He doesn’t fear standing by his beliefs or convictions…yet remains open minded to the ideas of others, he is not a follower, yet is able to laugh at himself.

•He his a gentle man who would not say harmful or degrading things to win a conversation or disagreement

•He is tolerant and able to allow others their identity, understanding that each and every human being is on their own path, with their own needs for knowledge in their particular time

•He doesn't have to be in a relationship to feel good about himself...nor does he date simply to get out of the house...

•He doesn't fear doing things alone, eating dinner out, walking in the park, going to see a movie, or a broadway show.

•He doesn't have to beat someone up, physically or with words to be a winner...
Actually to me, that kind of winner, is really a looser.

•He doesn't have to drive a fancy car, or boast his successes by material ownership, or prove his intellectual status by the college he attended.

This could apply to both men and women...To Be Man

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (01-03-2007 09:43 AM).]

hush
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13 posted 01-04-2007 08:48 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Stephen, Mysteria beat me to it. 1 in 10 is the statistic I found most frequently when researching, and also the idea that because of the stigma associated, far fewer men report rape than women.

Our stereotypes about gender roles hurt both men and women. It is socially acceptable (perhaps even expected) for a woman to fall into the victim role, and the man as the protector. So if the protector is victimized, it is a devastating blow.

It is not true that men have to be sexually stimulated to be raped, especially considering male perpetrators in that equation. Also consider alcohol as a drug in drug assisted rape (a friend of mine tackled that topic in her term paper, so I have some limited knowledge of what her research found.) I know of more than one male who was drunk and passed out, and taken advantage of without any (coherent) consent... only to wake up in the morning without any pants thinking "what happened?" But hey, even while we might call that rape when it happens to a woman, "some guys have all the luck."

Don't forget that physiologically, when stimulated as in male-male rape, the victim often experiences certain physical indicators of arousal (not to be too graphic) and not only feels victimized and emasculated, but wonders if they are now gay. Another reason not to report- talking about it may actualize the fear.

I had to make a lot of inferences, because I couldn't find any actual studies connecting rape and suicide among male victims (though a plethora exist for females). But because men tend to internalize and end up expressing depression as anger and with drug abuse, their mental health comorbidities after rape may potentially be more damaging that women's. I could go on and on and on... but my point remains the same. A lot of people and activists focus on women's rights, but what is often neglected is the fact that gender stereotypes affect both genders negatively, and in some cases, give both genders unfair advantages- for example, since women are, by nature, unquestionably more nurturing, who do you think has an automatic, unspoken advantage in custody disputes?
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


14 posted 01-04-2007 09:01 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

Once manhood was about being trusted to overcome the fear of death.
To what that capacity might be used is historically subject to question
yet that for the longest time was the measure.  Now it has for the main
seemed to haved change.  Or has it?

“We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day. “


Has that really changed?
If a vet walks into room doesn’t he still define?
My friend’s son felt compelled to serve in Iraq.
He is safely back.   And I can not imagine for all
wealth and other accomplishment anyone he meets
taller than him.


.
Denise
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15 posted 01-07-2007 11:05 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Speaking for myself, I look, even subconciously I suppose, upon men as the protectors in a community or society. Whether by design or by societal training, a topic of debate that I have no interest in debating, that's how I view men. I don't feel the least bit "protected" by a female police officer, firefighter or soldier despite their weapons, equipment and training. I have always felt more safe when men are in those roles. In casual conversation, other women have admitted the same to me.
Edward Grim
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16 posted 01-08-2007 12:01 AM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

hmm, to be a man?

Kudos on the thread by the way Huan, good topic.

I don't know about this whole thing, about being a man and all the stereotypes that define it. My whole life has been something that contradicts what "being a man" means, at least in the eyes of certain family memebers. Ok, so I don't like football or baseball or sports (besides ping pong which I rule at); ok so I don't know a single thing about cars or been in a fist fight. I don't like trucks, I think jeans are too constricting, tools are tools not toys, Home Depot is the place with orange aprons not Heaven. I think Nascar is boring and boxing and mixed martial arts ar brutal. I haven't sailed the Berring Straits (which apparantly my great grandfather did when he was 15), I haven't built a house. I hate fishing and I don't drink and don't plan to. Oh and I'd rather have a decent conversation with a woman than get in her pants (pardon the term). So am I not a man?

I think people should be more concerned with being decent human beings. I'd rather be a good person than be classified as being a "man" (and I mean that not in gender but in the expectations of being a male figure, you know what I mean).

And I said to the devil, "You better leave my spleen alone."

LeeJ
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17 posted 01-08-2007 08:45 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

yes, I agree...being man to me, is not like being "a man".  I believe man must do his/her best while here...and I mean, really work hard at it...
being "a man"....is up to the individual...there are no two people alike...so each one must own their own individuality...I believe being "a man" is first and foremost not trying to live up to everyone else's expectations...but being himself, contributing to the community of mankind.  In a decent, honest way.  

Mistletoe Angel
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18 posted 01-08-2007 02:21 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I was bullied often as a child in elementary school because a group of other boys my age called me too "girlish", particularly because there were some boys who enjoyed things like tearing the jumping legs off grasshoppers and starting fights just for fun, and I didn't want to do either and cried at what they were doing to the grasshoppers. So I was the victim of much ridicule and shoving against chain link fences when I was young.

I do believe it's not only unfortunate, but a big mistake that these gender stereotypes have become well-established in our cultural mainstream, especially to encourage boys to swallow their emotions and hide them in the deepest amethyst caves of their hearts because crying is a sign of weakness among both boys and men. I just don't believe in that, as I feel I would never be the confident, optimistic individual I am now if I didn't have an emotional release and emotional support from inspiring figures such as my sophomore-year English teacher Philippe Ernewein, who was the one who encouraged me to write out what was on my mind in poetic form, and would just turn out internally numb.

Personally, I'd rather appear emotional than appear expressionless. When I attended Denver Academy, what teachers said especially inspired them about me was how emotionally earnest I was; that when I smiled I meant it, and when I cried they could see my tears, and when a teacher was having a difficult day, I hugged the teacher, and from virtually everyone the responses I got at the end of every school year and on my graduation day was "Never change, Noah, never change from your warm, compassionate self!" Just reflecting on them speaking those words to me makes me tear up!

I believe there's so much that's misunderstood and underappreciated in life if young boys are taught to hide their feelings and to appear unfeeling on the exterior. I believe it's those moments where thoughts are expressed in a non-verbal kind of rapport and through the softening sight of eyes that speak deeper volumes than most words can ever do, and I'd like to see more of that reflected in popular culture.

Also, I've found myself not fitting in to many things in pop culture that are thought to be "manly". One of them is the Ultimate Fighting Championship, which everyone but me in my family love watching. I can certainly respect that the rest of my family has different interests than I do and think it's great they can come together and talk so much enthusiastically like that because of watching it, but fighting programs like that and the WWF have never been my kind of thing, nor does smash mouth football or many of the things associated with "King of the Hill".

One hobby I love most of all is Dance Dance Revolution, which often gets ridiculed for being a geek's game and a game only fun for people who want to look like idiots (yes, some critics have actually said that). Personally, I believe it's a wonderful, beneficial game for everyone, youth especially, in that it's a completely harmless, non-violent game that helps encourage children to keep physically active while having fun, as well as improve the motor skills and self-esteem in every child who plays it on a regular basis. I believe it's the healthiest videogame ever made that's a positive influence for our youth, and if I'm going to be called "girlish" for being a big fan of it, then consider me your Girlish Mistletoe Angel!

I also am not ashamed crying during touching movies (I cried watching "March of the Penguins" several times, once during the scene when the mothers finally return home months after the chicklings are born in searching for food to feed their young, and all the emotional excitement in all the chicklings speeding toward their mothers. I mean, can you imagine being born and not seeing your mother's face for months, even years?), wearing colorful shirts in public, saying magenta is one of my favorite colors and posting text here in that color, putting posters of butterflies and mermaids on my bedroom walls, and simply, being an individual who possesses both some non-stereotypical feminine and masculine qualities but are not at all limited to them.

Love,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Huan Yi
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19 posted 01-08-2007 09:34 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Edward,

All the examples you gave
illustrate the current confusion.
When before our own generation
did drinking and whoring have anything
to do with being a man?

Before, being a man was about death,
the horror of it and the never the less
doing, in a cultural sense, right.
No one says a man acting was always correct,
yet the living quality of courage to face and accept death
was critical.


John
rwood
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20 posted 01-08-2007 10:29 PM       View Profile for rwood   Email rwood   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rwood

My father is still my hero. He's retired from the Navy now, and among all qualities I value about him, he's a man of his word. Always was, always will be, consistently. That's a great comfort to me.

Edward Grim
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Greenville, South Carolina


21 posted 01-09-2007 01:51 AM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim


"When before our own generation
did drinking and whoring have anything
to do with being a man?"

Well I was talking about today, but I see your point. I think I see what you're saying John. It's all about willingness to die for something.

"Before, being a man was about death... the living quality of courage to face and accept death was critical."

If a person was in trouble and I had to risk my life to help them, I beleive I would; I think most people would. Risking one's life to save another's has nothing to do with gender I think.


And I said to the devil, "You better leave my spleen alone."
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


22 posted 01-12-2007 10:48 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

"I think most people would. Risking one's life to save another's has nothing to do with gender I think."

Except that before of a man was expected
or he faced the charge of being a coward.


What is the definintion of coward now?
Is there one?

What is higher than one's own life that
would compel him to knowingly sacrifice it now?

.


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