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Passions in Poetry

So, What About Kramer?

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JesusChristPose
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0 posted 11-22-2006 10:03 AM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

~ How about that Kramer guy? The heckling he received led to a racial slurring rant. And then, he has Seinfeld practically apologize for him on the Letterman show. Of course, this all occurs at the same time Season Seven is on the shelves ready for purchasing.

~ Scripted?

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Nightshade
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1 posted 11-22-2006 10:39 AM       View Profile for Nightshade   Email Nightshade   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nightshade's Home Page   View IP for Nightshade

Even if it was scripted, I will never look at "Kramer" with anticipation of an honest and open laugh again.
inot2B
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2 posted 11-22-2006 12:23 PM       View Profile for inot2B   Email inot2B   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for inot2B

"Scripted", who cares, he will never be the same to me.  
Poet deVine
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3 posted 11-22-2006 01:45 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

There was no excuse for his actions/words. He's a pariah in my book.
Christopher
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4 posted 11-22-2006 02:24 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

I have a feeling that were it to have been scripted, they would have been smart enough to stick to some vulgar cursing. Going racist is controversy that might hinder, more than help their sales.

No excuse for it in my book. There are truly some things in this world you can't take back or balm.
iliana
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5 posted 11-22-2006 02:53 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

It was scripted, I think.  A political maneuver to get controvery going so that the hate crimes bill can get passed and free speech can be eliminated.  Everyone is falling right into the trap.  

Personally, I think that kind of talk is disgusting and will chose not to listen to it.  People have the right to just not watch his TV show or listen to him.  We do not need laws to control our speech.
Midnitesun
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6 posted 11-22-2006 04:01 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

I doubt for one minute it was scripted.
Not having a TV (by choice)and therefore unaware of the incident until just now,
when I read about it online, I was shocked, and deeply disappointed.
To spew such horrid venom isn't likely scripted, as it is most likely a career killer for an artist who was already struggling to re-gain his comic character.
Oh Kramer!
What demons hide in your mind and heart?

But how many others who heard and read this in dismay hold something similar deep inside, to someday be spit out in front of a cracking mirror? Look deep within, see where your own rotten things may be festering, and rid yourself of them while you have things like this fresh in your mind.
Tha's about all I can say about it.
A tragic ending for Kramer
  (and the rest of us)
if we don't learn more from this
than how to point a finger.
Christopher
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7 posted 11-22-2006 04:02 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

People have the right to say what they want - however, when commerce is involved, I think it only right that it be legislated in some manner. Much like Ron's set up the forums here, I think if one is receiving a service (in this case, entertainment) and have a reasonable expectation of their return, it should be fairly met. I think if many there had known they were going to be subjected to racist hate, they would have chosen not to attend.

On the flip side, why is it ok for a black comedian to hurl racists remarks about white people while on stage and it's funny instead of racism?
Midnitesun
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8 posted 11-22-2006 04:05 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Excellent point Christopher!
Huan Yi
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9 posted 11-22-2006 07:51 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


I think if many there had known they were going to be subjected to racist hate, they would have chosen not to attend.

I dont think it was part of the script . . .

What exactly did the hecklers say?
.

Denise
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10 posted 11-23-2006 08:30 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I think Jerry is cringing at the potential damage done to his royalties over this flap. I don't think it was a publicity stunt to promote sales.

All I heard on the news was that the hecklers said "That's not funny" a couple of times. I tend to think it must have been more than that to push him over the edge like that. But maybe not. Regardless, there is no excuse for his tirade.

There is a civil law suit in the works already seeking monetary damages, with Gloria Alred, no less. That was quick.
Brian James
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11 posted 11-23-2006 01:25 PM       View Profile for Brian James   Email Brian James   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brian James

Oh geez, it was obviously just a really tasteless joke that he was trying to make.  It's too bad he has to go into self-defense mode just because of a racial double-standard.  And he really isn't in any position to say "hey, I was just joking, but it was a terrible joke that wasn't funny at all."

What is funny is the way the event has become fodder for the popular culture, especially on the internet!

"To me, the thing that art does for life is to clean it, to strip it to form."
~Robert Frost

JesusChristPose
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12 posted 11-24-2006 12:06 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

~ Interesting replies. I don't believe it was scripted neither, but it still could of been.

~ As for me, I couldn't care less about the guy, as I never found Seinfeld to be funny and the Kramer character to be an unfunny moronic knucklehead - equivalent to his latest stand-up comedy routine as pointed out by a few hecklers in the crowd.  

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

LeeJ
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13 posted 12-03-2006 12:33 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

I agree with Illana and Christopher...we have the choice not to listen...to ignore what is uncomfortable to us...but political correctness I fear will be our country's demise, it's going to far.

Also, when you get down to the streets, the blacks talk to each other like that.  

Our freedom of speech and rights are going to be taken away by people like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton.  Everytime a police officer shoots a black, who is shooting at them, that criminal can be the scum of the earth, drug addict, wife beater, preditor, killer, yet, Sharpton is always there protesting police brutality.  My answer to them is this...I challenge you, to put on a police uniform and work on these streets for a few weeks, better yet, live in that area of town for a few months, then come back to me and tell me you feel the same. The NWACP today has become more political and one sided instead of protecting those who really do need to be protected.  I oft times wonder what Martin Luthur King would have said to these men who seem to what to keep prejudice alive.  (sigh, very sad)

Its unfair, and we're living in today, not in the years of civil war...people are just way to sensitive, keeping prejaduce alive....Can't tell you how many times I've been called a wap, dego, or worse, am I going to protest, heck no!

You can walk away from insults and if you don't like the comedian's mouth, for whatever reason, you can always leave, no matter what race, religion or color of skin.  Its called free will.

If he would have been a black comedian insulting honkies, would the same accusations be made, I think not.

There is good and bad in every human being...we all make mistakes, say things we never meant or hurt others when we didn't mean to.  Sad, but true, its part of being a human being.  


Mistletoe Angel
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14 posted 12-03-2006 02:36 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

This whole "kicking someone while that someone's down" dispaly is truly saddening to me, just as it was when Mel Gibson (who like Kramer again indeed said hurtful, shameful things) wasn't given a chance to try to redeem himself and learn from his mistakes and grow to hope to become a better person, and instead was thrown to the ground and incessantly taunted by the media.

I choose to gauge artistic and literary works by their own merit, not strictly based on who writes, stars or directs them. If I hear "Apocalypto" is a great movie, I will see it, and based on early word, I've been hearing it's pretty powerful. And I'll continue to watch "Seinfeld" re-runs, and though I may think of Michael Richards differently, I don't want to let that affect how I think of Kramer.

You certainly have every right to see and not see what you wish, but I believe if we were to hold these depthless sort of grudges unconditionally, by this sort of understanding, then we shouldn't tolerate at all "Gone With The Wind" in how it portrays African-Americans, or our own founding fathers and every democratic principle they assisted in establishing because they were slave-owners, or all Roman achievements because Ceasar slept with young boys, or the New Testament because Paul played a role in a murder, and so forth.

I don't say this to excuse the damaging, hurtful things Michael Richards or Mel Gibson said in any way, but the fact is there's a dark side to all human life and existence, and no one is a stranger to it. We all do stupid and even unheard of things in life, and we deal with these shared experiences not by assassinating ones character eternally and excommunicating each other, but by being educated that these are learning experiences, let the individual at fault admit ones follies, seek penitence, grow beyond that prejudice or hate, and then find the faith to forgive and amend.

If not doing so, that's exactly why ugly conflicts of every shape continue to go on worldwide, and true harmony and fellowship can never be fully achieved in my mind.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Essorant
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15 posted 12-03-2006 07:18 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"Ceasar slept with young boys"


Where did you hear this from?  

Christopher
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16 posted 12-04-2006 12:32 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Let me add on to my statement that people have the right to say what they want and that is that they also have to accept the consequences of what they say. Freedom is never without a price, including the freedom of speech. Public figures, more than the rest of us, should be aware of this and speak with that understanding.
Edward Grim
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17 posted 12-05-2006 09:11 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

JCP, you hit the head on the nail (lol). It's a publicity stunt. Look at Paris Hilton, she releases a little night-vision vid and suddenly her show is off the map. Coincidence, I think not.
hush
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18 posted 12-06-2006 08:30 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

'Also, when you get down to the streets, the blacks talk to each other like that.'

Down to the streets? The blacks?

So, all 'blacks' live on the streets and because they use a term, which has been culturally reclaimed, in a positive way... that makes it okay for white people to revert to using it in its original negative and degrading context?

And you wonder why people (not just 'blacks') are mad.
hush
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19 posted 12-06-2006 08:32 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Oh, sorry, as an aside, I don't feel bad for poeple who rant about Jews or scream out racial obscenities... you reap what you sow, and as Chris pointed out, even moreso in the public eye. Boohoo. Keep a lid on the Jose next time.
Edward Grim
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20 posted 12-06-2006 06:22 PM       View Profile for Edward Grim   Email Edward Grim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Edward Grim's Home Page   View IP for Edward Grim

Rock on Hush, I agree 3000 percent.

And I said to the devil, "You better leave my spleen alone."

LeeJ
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21 posted 12-07-2006 08:45 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hush
"So, all 'blacks' live on the streets and because they use a term, which has been culturally reclaimed, in a positive way... that makes it okay for white people to revert to using it in its original negative and degrading context?"  

No it doesn't and I didn't say that, please re-read my statement.

Of course, Not all blacks live in the streets, I said or meant, when you go down to the streets, or ghettos, they do talk amongst themselves like that, and perhaps even the well educated, moral, law abiding citizens do when they become angry with each other.  

I've seen and heard them do so.  ...and I'm certainly not stating that its ok to talk like that. But they do, amongst themselves, and when they do it amongst themselves it's ok?????  

Personally, I think it's disgusting, and just to set you straight Hush, when my son was growing up, I told him I never smacked him across the mouth once in his life,  but if I ever heard him say that word, he might be in for a first timer?

Its not ok to say things like that...but it is a free country, and unfortunately, there are good and bad people.  

When you start dictating to people what they may say, what they may watch, what they are allowed to believe, then you take away our rights to be free.  

"Why can't we just say, yanno, the guys a real uneducated jerk" and walk away?

Sometimes the more you make of things, the more you keep hatred alive and .....  
You cannot change people by forcing things down their throat.  

Its not about skin color, nationality, race or creed, and if someone makes it as such, then it is our right to get up and walk away.

JCP, I'm more inclined to think the entire situation might have been scripted....sure did get a lot of attention.  And by the way, fact remains, those guys were really heckling him, and then, by sheer coincidence, someone films the whole thing?



[This message has been edited by LeeJ (12-08-2006 03:45 PM).]

 
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