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Passions in Poetry

Jesus......REJECTED!

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Essorant
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75 posted 11-20-2006 11:46 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Christmas is Christ's birthday.  Either you celebrate it or you don't.  If you don't you shouldn't call your holiday "Christmas"
Christopher
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76 posted 11-20-2006 12:52 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

You know what I'm hearing throughout this thread? Pander to the Christian sect, regardless of how you feel about it.

If you support the Christians and their propoganda, excellent. If you don't, ignore it.

Of course, I have firm confidence that the reverse would not be true. What in the world forces non-believers to be tolerant of the believers, but not force the believers to be tolerant of the non-believers?

It just doesn't make sense to me that someone can throw something in another's face then tell them if they don't like it to just discard it. If I am sitting at the table next to yours while you're out to a nice dinner with your lady friend and I want to curse loudly, feeling that there is nothing wrong with foul language in public? You're absolutely free to ignore it. Should you have to though? Or should I be more considerate of those who have differing belief structures.

See, you're focusing on the "offensive" nature of the whole thing.

Truth be told, I'm not offended in the slightest.

Just disappointed that the only true difference between Christians now and those back in the days of the inquisition is the manner in which they express their disapproval of non-believers... it's just less physical than it used to be.

At the end of the day, I just want the choice, preferably without the having a label pasted to my forehead saying I'm wrong for wanting it.
Balladeer
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77 posted 11-20-2006 01:26 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

the manner in which they express their disapproval of non-believers...

Ok, I'm lost. Where does that come from, Chris?


..and some kind of resemblance to having to endure cursing in a restaurant??? Grinch can make comparisons like the because, after all, it is documented that HE STOLE Christmas!....but you?
Brad
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78 posted 11-20-2006 01:34 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
Just disappointed that the only true difference between Christians now and those back in the days of the inquisition is the manner in which they express their disapproval of non-believers... it's just less physical than it used to be.


Ah, the good ole days.
Balladeer
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79 posted 11-20-2006 02:12 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

a direct descendant of the Grand Inquisitor,are ya, Brad?

Saying the Christians held the Spanish Inquisition is like saying the Muslims are all out there chopping off heads. There are a few Christians - and Muslims - who may disagree. Someday someone is going to figure out that it's the nut cases using religion as an excuse to commit atrocities, and not religion itself.
Local Rebel
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80 posted 11-20-2006 04:57 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I just wonder now about the Anton Levay dolls?
Huan Yi
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81 posted 11-20-2006 09:05 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Now Mike,

Anyone who would choose
Judas for a friend
could hardly be seen
as a role model
plastic or otherwise . . .


.
Dusk Treader
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82 posted 11-21-2006 12:30 AM       View Profile for Dusk Treader   Email Dusk Treader   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dusk Treader

quote:
Christmas is Christ's birthday.  Either you celebrate it or you don't.  If you don't you shouldn't call your holiday "Christmas"


Then maybe this day shouldn't be declared a US national holiday?

The meaning of this word has changed over time. It is no longer only the day Christians celebrate the birth of Christ but it is also a traditional day for peole to gather with friends and family to exchange gifts and eat good food and talk. Pagans, atheists, Christians and even religions with other holidays like Islam and Judaism will still celebrate Christmas.

There is a long history of associating this period of the year with gift exchange and festival. There's a perfectly good name for a day when you exchange gifts near the winter solstice that everyone is familiar with. It's Christmas. Good luck trying to convince those people who don't celebrate Christ's birth to begin calling it "Secular present exchanging day."

Personally I think the whole thing was a stunt. Either their dolls go out to people and get used appropriately or the company get some free publicity. Win-win situation for the Doll producers.

I feel sorry for the kids who get the doll. That's a pretty lame gift for most kids.

"I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness..." - H.P. Lovecraft

Essorant
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83 posted 11-21-2006 11:09 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"It is no longer only the day Christians celebrate the birth of Christ"

Of course people celebrate the time of the year for different reasons.  But the word Christmas itself is a specifically Christ-oriented word.  You can't change that.  It is literally engrained into the word: "Christ Mass".  

Why do people that don't have anything to do with Christ, use the word that indicates Christ: Christmas?  It is like calling a day "Dusk Treader Mass" and deciding not to celebrate anything to do with Dusk Treader.  It doesn't make any sense to me.


A Romantic Heart
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84 posted 11-21-2006 01:12 PM       View Profile for A Romantic Heart   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for A Romantic Heart

I agree with Balladeer!

I would prefer my children play with a Jesus doll than Barbie or Bratz, dolls that make girls feel they have to look like sluts and puke their brains out to be skinny to please a man, BAD ROLE MODELS!

Go ahead America turn you back on God and see what happens? you want another New Orleans Hurricane? More Earthquakes? God is God and he has all the power of the universe, to fear God is the start of true wisdom.

That is what is wrong with this country (It has lost its first love)that was founded on God, God blesses those who abide in him, that is why our country is so blessed with freedom, food, resources, etc.
But just like the days of Noah, and Sodom, people have turned their backs on God, and God is a loveing God, but a just God as well, woe to this country and the things yet to come!
Its all in the bible, it is only going to get worse, Revelation is yet to be fullfilled, but the hour of Jesus return is drawing near, for the signs he speaks of in Matthew are here.

PORN is the the most destructive tool satan uses to belittle women, to place in the minds of men what women should do, or be like, GOd didn;t make women to be sluts or to be treated disrespectfully. I have taught both of my sons to respect women, not lust over them like dogs, that women are humans, have hearts, emotions, and brains, personalities and feelings. NOT JUST A PIECE OF MEAT.
God created woman for man as his helpmate and companion, God created sex for marriage, a MAN AND WOMAN marriage.

Homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord.All throughout the bible, (If you read it) you will find scriptures to what God says and who will enter into his kingdom and who will not.

IF you do not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior by asking for forgiveness of your sins, and receiving him into your heart,and haveing a daily relationship with him, you are not saved, and the day you die and face judgement ( WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE SOMEDAY) Jesus will say depart from me, for I knew you not, and you will be cast into the eternal lake of fire.

Its better to be safe than sorry, you don't know what awaits you on the other side? until you die, then it is too late!

I know what awaits on the other side, I have had my prayers answered and God is as real today as he was when he spoke to moses at the burning bush. I have heard his voice and I have seen miracles in his name, by the blood of Jesus, I pray each and every soul here to come to Jesus, and find true love, everlasting life, before it is too late, then next hour of your life, the next minute could be your last, are you going to spend it in Heaven or HEll? it is your choice and it is all eternity.

God Bless, Love to everyone in Jesus name I pray amen!
JesusChristPose
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85 posted 11-21-2006 01:38 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"Christmas is Christ's birthday."

~ No, it is not. The modern day celebration is rooted in the celebration of the winter solstace during the reign of Constantine. When Constantine converted [cough cough] to Christianity, in order to keep the celebration, he declared the time to be a celebration of Christ's birth. Most likely, the true Jesus was born somewhere between mid October to mid November.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

serenity blaze
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86 posted 11-21-2006 01:46 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze



Thank you Jesus.
Christopher
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87 posted 11-21-2006 01:48 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

quote:
That is what is wrong with this country (It has lost its first love)that was founded on God...
This country wasn't fouded on God. It was in fact founded on freedom. There is no freedom in God, only servitude.
quote:
God blesses those who abide in him, that is why our country is so blessed with freedom, food, resources, etc.
God must be in the import/export business then, since a goodly portion of our bounty comes from overseas, eh?
quote:
PORN is the the most destructive tool satan uses to belittle women, to place in the minds of men what women should do, or be like, GOd didn;t make women to be sluts or to be treated disrespectfully. I have taught both of my sons to respect women, not lust over them like dogs, that women are humans, have hearts, emotions, and brains, personalities and feelings. NOT JUST A PIECE OF MEAT.
God created woman for man as his helpmate and companion, God created sex for marriage, a MAN AND WOMAN marriage.
Wow.

Wow.

You know, I find it continually amusing that women are belittled in pornography, while men are left unscathed. It's amazing. I'm glad you pointed out what women are actually for, I'd been wondering...
quote:
Homosexuality is an abomination to the Lord.All throughout the bible, (If you read it) you will find scriptures to what God says and who will enter into his kingdom and who will not.
quote:
IF you do not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior by asking for forgiveness of your sins, and receiving him into your heart,and haveing a daily relationship with him, you are not saved, and the day you die and face judgement ( WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE SOMEDAY) Jesus will say depart from me, for I knew you not, and you will be cast into the eternal lake of fire.
So, I'm guessing if someone is "saved" and then turns to homosexuality, there's a retraction printed in the next morning's edition of the Times?

And - see Mike, told you!
quote:
Its better to be safe than sorry, you don't know what awaits you on the other side? until you die, then it is too late!
That has to be the best reason for religion I have ever heard. It minds me of the smarmy guy in The Mummy who, upon coming face to face with the mummy starts sucessively pulling out totems from various religions and praying to the appropriate deity. Better safe than sorry, I agree.

You know, at the end of the day, I support your right to believe whatever you want, but it's these types of intolerant perspectives that make me want to avoid having to explain religion to my son until he is a bit older. It's hard enough being a parent (as any parent already knows). Half my time with my two-year-old is spent trying just to protect him physically inside our own home... one moment he thinks he's a mountain climber, scaling the counters and entertainment centers, the next he thinks he's speed raced on his bike. Why should someone else force me to address additional peril (be it emotional and mental) while I've got my hands full already?

If so many Christians believe Jesus is the Saviour, what gives them the right to act like Him for me; I don't need a saviour and if I did, hey, why send me an impression instead of the real deal?
Local Rebel
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88 posted 11-21-2006 02:58 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

So, I'm just going to take a wild guess, that an Anton Levay doll would not be a welcome present in ARH's house?
serenity blaze
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89 posted 11-21-2006 03:00 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Anton LeVay isn't even welcome in MINE.



JesusChristPose
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90 posted 11-21-2006 03:02 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"Thank you Jesus.

~ You are welcome, my child.  

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Balladeer
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91 posted 11-21-2006 03:26 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Guess you were right, Chris. I'm headed to Wal-Mart for asbestos swim trunks!

There is one  part I agree with, though. A Jesus doll would DEFINITELY be less emotionally destructive than a Barbie doll!
Essorant
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92 posted 11-22-2006 12:17 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I think the tenth month should be renamed as December, since decem actually means "ten".  If October were renamed as December, then we may rightly still celebrate Christmas on December 25th, but be most close to Christ's real birthday too.  
Stephanos
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93 posted 11-22-2006 12:56 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Christopher:
quote:
This country wasn't fouded on God. It was in fact founded on freedom. There is no freedom in God, only servitude.

Our founding documents have very religious ideas as the basis for freedom, ie "inalienable rights endowed by the Creator".


A bit too distant and deist for me (and thus lending toward individualism), and yet housing a concept firmly rooted in the Judeo-Christian view of an infinite personal God, and no other.


Our founding fathers understood that unless heaven provides the basic assumptions of human rights, there is no ground for them.  Either Ceasar is God or God is God.  If Ceasar is God, then there is nothing or no one to tell him what is right or wrong.  Freedom for him, apart from a higher law, means freedom to do what he wishes to you.


Also, it is the Christian doctrine that only by becoming a servant to God can true freedom be found.  Much in the same way that allowing your desires and whims complete "freedom" leads to something much more like bondage.


Now, after having said that, I will agree with you that the machine gun method of communicating Christian truth (as you witnessed) is not the best way, as it tends to be offensive and builds walls.  But after the bullets cool off, I urge you to examine them more closely.  You may find that they were made of Gold.  Wrong use perhaps, but the substance is a different matter altogether.  And gold-diggers don't necessarily have to approve of gunslingers.    


Stephen.
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94 posted 11-22-2006 02:08 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I'm happy when I'm supposed to be happy.

Life affirming events, achievements of self or others, playing with my children, watching them grow, a lover's embrace, buying a new guitar, playing an old guitar, building a guitar, writing a song, performing a song, watching an interesting movie or program, reading a good book, a cup of tea.  Celebrating holidays in my own way with my own traditions.

I'm perfectly capable of enjoying these things, as I should.

I'm sad when I'm supposed to be sad.

When I fail.  When someone else fails.  The absence of a lover's embrace.  A sick child.  My own illness. Unnecessary loss of human life.  The death of a pet.  The destruction of a work of art or a landmark, or watching someone destroy themselves.

I grieve in these things, as I should.

The government grants equal rights to all.  One day that will include marriage equality, gender equality, racial equality, equality of economic opportunity.  Our nation is a nation of people who, like most people in the world, want to do good things.  Our ideas of good have not always been good though.  We have a tarnished past, a troublesome present, and a promising future.

Grandfather dies.
Father dies.
Son dies.

This is prosperity.

Brad
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95 posted 11-22-2006 02:16 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
Grandfather dies.
Father dies.
Son dies.

This is prosperity.


Brilliant.

hush
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96 posted 11-23-2006 04:33 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Okay, I have a vision. Darwin, Jesus, and Levay(sp?) dolls, all lined up on the mantle with school portraits of the kids... and all holding hands. (Do the dolls have moveable arms/hands? I hope so!) They should all be kneeling and facing east (or west, I suppose, depending on your geographic location.)

Chris- I think November is a bleak and dismal month, and I have to work on Thanksgiving, so I don't even have that. So.... I skipped November and went straight into December mode. I'm rubbing my hands together in excitement, as I plan to brave the crowds Friday morning after work (I actually enjoy the chaos more than the sales), and I can't wait for snow- I hope there's a lot this year.

Look, Christmas, traditionally, as I and JCP have both pointed out, was just a "christian" renaming of Saturnalia/winter celebration. Whether or not Christ was actually born on that day is, in my opinion, irrelevant to current celebration. I love Christmas for all of its secular implications- seeing family, the glut of tasty food, and the shameless commercialism. I'm not saying Christians shouldn't worship Christ- go to church and throw a birthday party for him! That's great! But it shouldn't be implied that people shouldn't enjoy Christmas without a proper religious backing, because the "official" religious backing isn't the original reason for the celebration anyway! And besides that, the winter season is a time for celebration for many major religions. So even for atheists, or agnostics, or whatever, I think there's a natural human tendancy to celebrate at this time of the year, probably because with colder temps and longer nights, we need a pick me up. Is that so terrible?

And, Mike, echoing Chris- "told ya so!"

'Go ahead America turn you back on God and see what happens? you want another New Orleans Hurricane?'

'All throughout the bible, (If you read it) you will find scriptures to what God says and who will enter into his kingdom and who will not.'

This is the first time you've heard statements like this, Mike? Not for me. So, is this an example of civilized or uncivilized religion?

'IF you do not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior by asking for forgiveness of your sins, and receiving him into your heart,and haveing a daily relationship with him, you are not saved, and the day you die and face judgement ( WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE SOMEDAY) Jesus will say depart from me, for I knew you not, and you will be cast into the eternal lake of fire.'

Can I take a bikini?

'PORN is the the most destructive tool satan uses to belittle women, to place in the minds of men what women should do, or be like, GOd didn;t make women to be sluts or to be treated disrespectfully.'

This makes me just itch to go streaking right now, 26 degrees out and all. Just 'cause, it sounds like fun.

But I will keep this in mind- no night job (or day job, as it were) as a porn star for me as I obey my husband... I must be treated with respect.

Romantic Heart... I gotta say, I thought you were joking at first... you know, sarcasm? Ever seen the movie 'Saved?' Like that. But:

'Go ahead America turn you back on God and see what happens? you want another New Orleans Hurricane?'

To me, you are crossing the line. You are essentially blaming me (and others) for hurricane Katrina. (Sorry about all that, Karen!)

Seriously, if I ever take care of you in a hospital, remind me to tell you about how your illness is due to you not being holy or godly enough.

*Shakes head.*

To Karen, and anyone else here ever affected by a natural disaster, I'm sorry you even had to read that.
Denise
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97 posted 11-23-2006 08:15 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I see a difference between what you have focused on, L.R. and what the founding fathers focused on: they spoke of inalienable rights endowed by the Creator (among these life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness), and you speak of government granted equal rights. Governments can't grant what God has already given. They can only respect, uphold and protect our God-given rights, which was the philosophy of the founders, or governments can disregard them by placing themselves on the throne.

Government granted rights can change with the wind, depending on the government. Creator-endowed rights stand, unchanged, for all time, whether a government protects and upholds them or not, whether I actually get to enjoy them or not. And I believe that governments are judged on that basis.
Local Rebel
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98 posted 11-23-2006 01:50 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

"What is this thing you call property?" he declared. "It cannot be the earth. For the earth is our mother, nourishing all her children, bears, birds, fish and all men. The woods, the streams, everything on it belongs to everybody and is for the use of all. How can one man say it belongs to him only?"



Ousamequin, or Yellow Feather (Massasoit)
Balladeer
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99 posted 11-23-2006 03:11 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

....obviously said before the birth of Donald Trump   Happy turkey day, reb
 
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