How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 A Touch of Class   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  ]
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

A Touch of Class

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


0 posted 11-09-2006 05:00 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


Republican Sen. George Allen  conceded defeat Thursday to Democrat Jim Webb, sealing the Democrats' control of Congress and the political downfall of a man once considered a White House contender.

Allen said the "owners of government have spoken and I respect their decision."

Allen chose not to demand a recount after initial canvassing of the results failed to significantly alter Webb's lead. "I do not wish to cause more litigation that would not alter the results," Allen said, adding that he saw "no good purpose being served by continuously and needlessly expending money and causing any more personal animosity."


There were more than one close race which were to determine the Senate majority and yet I've seen no screaming of voter irregularities, hanging chads, difficult to read ballots, attempted influencing,  dirty political tricks, keeping voters from the polls,  no public opinion agencies hired to call voters to ask them if they are SURE their votes were not tampered with ...and no demands for recounts from candidates refusing to accept defeat. No one decided to delay the inevitable by setting up "investigations" of foul tactics by the opposing party or inability of the voting machine to function properly, uncaring of how it would affect the nation.

...but then, the Democrats  won. It would be nice to think it would have been the same if they had lost but history shows us differently, doesn't it?

My thanks to Senator Allen and the others for showing class and concern for their country ,even in defeat. Hopefully others can learn from it.
JesusChristPose
Senior Member
since 06-21-2005
Posts 679
Pittsburgh, Pa


1 posted 11-09-2006 07:09 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

~ We were thinking of the same thing. The dems would of been screaming FOUL! I still remember Al Gore's flock of lawyers descending on Florida like vultures on roadkill. However, add Maine's senator to gracious loser too.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


2 posted 11-09-2006 07:44 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaca_(slur)
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


3 posted 11-09-2006 08:38 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Generally, I suspect politicians (on both sides of the aisle) want a recount when they think there's a chance it might turn defeat into victory. In this particular election year, a recount would most likely just reveal a worse thumpin' than the first time around.

More seriously ('cause I really was just joking), I'm probably almost as disappointed in the results of this election as our Republican friends are. In my experience, any time the pendulum swings too wide it's only going to gain speed and eventually cut more deeply. It would be nice if our politicians, both Democrat and Republican, learned that quality is more important than quantity and a majority is no substitute for good leadership.


Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


4 posted 11-09-2006 10:04 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I agree with Ron here.

What did make me exhale a sigh of relief late Tuesday evening was that, following four years of a "rubber-stamp Congress" trifecta that was unchecked and unbalanced, this election has helped get us closer to living true to our checks and balances ideals that make our democracy great and effective.

Thus, this is something that, regardless if you're a Republican or Democrat, we can be excited about, in that truly our democracy works best when more than one set of eyes is transfixed on the plans for our great nation in the developing stages, and that essentially under divided government there are branches covering each other.

But I also have deep concern about this outcome in that intense partisanship in either direction just takes us back to square one, and while it is plain to see Bush and Pelosi will never seem eye to eye on many issues, it does no good in seeking positive solutions that strengthen our nation when the process is tainted with ceaseless contention rather than reconciliation and community. When I hear rhetoric about "bi-partisanship", you certainly can't expect Bush and Pelosi to mean that the 110th Congress will become the "Koombyea Congress" where we gather around the beach fire and sing serenades to one another. All I hope is that there can be a feeling of accomodation and compromise that comes out of this.

As a registered Independent, I was hoping for months that the Democrats would take the House of Representatives, but I wish the Republicans would hold a one or two seat majority in the Senate to especially even out the distribution of control. Ultimately, I guess that's not saying much, given I yearn to see a streak of solutions and problem-solving in Congress rather than pretentious preaching of mandates and such from either end.

*

Anyway, we'll see what happens come January, but though I would certainly respect Allen's wishes for a recount had he acted that way instead, given that I believe every especially close, honest election deserves an honest full recount, I also commend the class both Allen and Burns expressed today, just as Kerry and Daschle expressed in 2004 following their defeats. And that's the touch of dignity in politics I too desire to see more of.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
JesusChristPose
Senior Member
since 06-21-2005
Posts 679
Pittsburgh, Pa


5 posted 11-09-2006 10:20 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaca_(slur)

~ Which means absolutely nothing about this thread.  

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


6 posted 11-09-2006 11:20 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
Allen chose not to demand a recount after initial canvassing of the results failed to significantly alter Webb's lead. "I do not wish to cause more litigation that would not alter the results," Allen said, adding that he saw "no good purpose being served by continuously and needlessly expending money and causing any more personal animosity."


I don't see the comparison but that's just me. Why would anyone challenge the results if they were confident that it wouldn't change anything?

JesusChristPose
Senior Member
since 06-21-2005
Posts 679
Pittsburgh, Pa


7 posted 11-09-2006 11:27 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"I don't see the comparison but that's just me. Why would anyone challenge the results if they were confident that it wouldn't change anything?"

~ Exactly that. The man had the dignity, courage, and, as Mike put it, class to let the results be the results. The confidence from Gore and others was not that the results were true, but challenging legal issues over allegations of racism, etc., would lead to a victory ... equaling, NO CLASS.


Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


8 posted 11-09-2006 11:36 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

As I recall, victory in that election came from a Supreme Court ruling.

The implication that Gore knew the results were true strike me as, well, uh, untrue.

JesusChristPose
Senior Member
since 06-21-2005
Posts 679
Pittsburgh, Pa


9 posted 11-09-2006 11:41 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

~ As I recall, if Gore would of shown some class and conceded, like Allen did,  the Supreme Court would not have had to decide on the outcome.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


10 posted 11-09-2006 11:45 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

So class means accept a lie as true?
iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


11 posted 11-09-2006 11:49 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

As I recall, there truly have been voting irregularities for many years; and now with electronic scanners and voting machines, hacking is truly a possibility.  Though it was very disconcerting that Gore challenged the election back then, I am glad he did. It brought to our attention something we take for granted. Our voting systems need to have closer oversight and scrutiny by election officials and an official record should be public record to the voters.  It should not be left up to the companies that sell the voting equipment which can take partisan interest in the outcome of an election.  I watched a special on HBO the other night that every American should see.  This is an excerpt:   http://youtube.com/watch?v=uS75tSPpV7A

Most people with real class just keep that pinned close to their chest.  I'll agree that Allen is quite a spokesman and figure he got some good press out of his concession speech....he'll be back; he's a talented guy.  He's not dumb either -- what he did was good politics.

[This message has been edited by iliana (11-10-2006 12:07 AM).]

JesusChristPose
Senior Member
since 06-21-2005
Posts 679
Pittsburgh, Pa


12 posted 11-09-2006 11:51 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

tsk, tsk, if it were a lie, it would have been reported as such, but as I recall, all of the recounts showed that Bush did win.

Some people just don't get it, but Mike did, and so do I. Sometimes, it is best for the entire counry to allow the official count, count.  Even if it may, just may be wrong due to the closeness of the outcome, or a lie as you state (which I don't understand because a lie would take one person lying about a multitude of occurances).

Get it?  

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


13 posted 11-09-2006 11:54 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Watch the video, JCP.  Oversight is important.

I said nothing about a lie.  What are you talking about?
JesusChristPose
Senior Member
since 06-21-2005
Posts 679
Pittsburgh, Pa


14 posted 11-09-2006 11:58 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"I watched a special on HBO the other night that every American should see."

~ Because HBO said so, it must be true.

~ Seriously, the voting machines have always had problems. The fact is, those problems don't surface until a race, or races, become so close that those problems surface. It happens to be that during these past few elections, some races have been close enough to shed concern over the machines. Nothing is perfect, therefore, it is what it is. Those who lose can either take the high or load road. Allen chose the high road, but could of easily taken the low road, like Gore did, and dragged his election result out as long as possible, leaving it the courts.  

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

JesusChristPose
Senior Member
since 06-21-2005
Posts 679
Pittsburgh, Pa


15 posted 11-09-2006 11:59 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"Watch the video, JCP.  Oversight is important.

I said nothing about a lie.  What are you talking about?"


~ That was directed towards Brad.  
iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


16 posted 11-10-2006 12:02 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Even if Gore hadn't challenged, Al Sharpton would have because of all the formal complaints made.  I'll admit, I'd be pretty angry, maybe even angry enough to file a complaint, if I stood in line for hours and did not get to vote.  
iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


17 posted 11-10-2006 12:45 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

JCP -- Since you dispute HBO's documentary; here's Princeton's study:   http://youtube.com/watch?v=GamR4y_ykA0&mode=related&search=
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


18 posted 11-10-2006 01:12 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

The Democrats in the previous two elections had a host of complaints, not only that the votes were close but also all of the charges....people not getting to vote, faulty machines, hanging chads, confusing ballots and the list goes on. In Florida there were THREE recounts, each showing the same results and still they continued, willing to give the entire process a black eye just to continue to be able to put on the front that they were cheated.

In this election, however, I see no Democratic complaints at all. Apparently, all of the machines worked properly, the ballots were easy to read, everyone who wanted to vote got to, and the entire process went like clockwork. Isn't that an amazing thing???

Rest assured that, had they lost, all of those things would have once again become issues for complaint with screams of foul. Call me psychic
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


19 posted 11-10-2006 07:25 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

The only question for you Mike -- is if sometime when you went to vote and you felt that either by overt intent or negligence and incompetence you were denied your Constitutional right to exercise your franchise would you complain about it -- or would you be classy and just sit down and shutup?

Gore conceded the race you refer to -- it was complaints from VOTERS that prompted him to then challenge it.

Wouldn't it be the civic responsibility of the candidate of your choice to look into your complaint that you were denied your franchise?

And this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaca_(slur)  has everything to do with this thread because it is the reason for Allen's concession speech.

When considering the class of one party vs. another I'm little impressed by use of proper forks if they expell wind at the table.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


20 posted 11-10-2006 08:43 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Gore conceded the race you refer to -- it was complaints from VOTERS that prompted him to then challenge it.

You are not as well-informed as you would like to be, I'm afraid. The voters prompted him to challenge it? ..and  who prompted the voters? That all came out later in the papers down here  and there was a spot on 60 minutes, also.  One voter - ONE voter - called to complain that the ballot was hard to read. Apparently, a light went off in a democratic head and they saw an opportunity. They hired the largest PR firm in New York City (don't recall the name) to set up phone banks and call every registered democratic voter, asking them if there was a POSSIBILITY  that their vote had gone elsewhere due to the setup of the ballot.Then the hanging chads came into play. They then released news that many voters were claiming that their votes were miscounted. Open the phone lines for the avalanche of phone calls that came in from democratic voters swearing that they, too, had voted for Gore but their vote went somewhere else! Gore simply stood back and said (like you), "I'm not contesting it but it seems there's something wrong here and we owe it to the voters to investigate it fully.", or something along those lines.

THAT'S the story...not your "the voters complained" theory.

You want to contest that? Then imagine it the way the democrats originally set it up. Thousands of democratic voters went home and, at some point during the night, they all (individually, without knowledge of the others) came to the conclusion that their votes might have gone to the wrong person and called up to report it. That sound more feasible to you, reb?

It's a matter of record what happened...and it's a matter of class as to why.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


21 posted 11-10-2006 09:22 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
09 Nov 2006 02:27 pm

George Allen may concede the Virginia race at 3 pm; or he may not. I think he should. The vote is so close that mere statistical errors could create another outcome. You could keep flipping the coin for ever. There's no question what the will of the American people is with respect to the Senate: a big majority of the popular vote went to the Dems. Allen emerges from this race looking battered and bitter. If he were to concede, it would be a gracious move that would instantly rehabilitate him in the public's mind. It's smart politics; and the right thing for the country.


Andrew Sullivan agrees with you.

I agree that it is in the national interest to have a dem controlled Senate.


Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


22 posted 11-10-2006 09:33 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Which nation are you referring to, Brad?
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


23 posted 11-10-2006 09:44 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

The United States of America.

JesusChristPose
Senior Member
since 06-21-2005
Posts 679
Pittsburgh, Pa


24 posted 11-10-2006 11:19 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

~ Mike, you are the man!

~ I lived in Florida when that all happened and agree with you 100 percent. Not counting, there was much much more to it than that.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> A Touch of Class   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors