How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 A Touch of Class   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  ]
 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

A Touch of Class

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


25 posted 11-11-2006 04:40 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

So, Mike, let me get this straight;

Your indictment of Democrats here is that they investigated the allegation that there was some question regarding the vote and when they had gathered enough evidence, and only then, they went public.  Wheras they could have raised a stink as soon as they had just one voter complaining.

That is totally unclassy.  

You didn't answer the question.  (Or praise Harold Ford's concession speech, or condemn the RNC's 'Call Me Harold' ad).
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


26 posted 11-11-2006 06:51 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

An extremely feeble attempt at a twist there, LR.   No, you don't want to get it straight. It doesn't matter. Others reading this thread will and some will be objective enough to form their own opinions. I present it to them instead of playing twist-and-shout with you

Defensive finger pointing won't work here. No one has claimed, and I certainly won't, that sleazy politics don't exist on both sides of the aisle. This thread is about the graceful capitulation of the Republicans in this election. If you want to present the case that hitting someone with a racist slur equals a deliberate attempt to throw the country into turmoil by attempting to manufacture evidence rather than go out with any class, be my guest. I applaud the Republicans for not doing that.

[This message has been edited by Balladeer (11-11-2006 07:46 AM).]

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


27 posted 11-11-2006 07:17 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Here it is straight Mike;   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election%2C_2000

quote:

Due to the narrow margin of the original vote count, Florida law mandated a statewide recount

In addition, the Gore campaign requested that the votes in three counties be recounted by hand. Florida state law (F.S. Ch. 102.166) at the time allowed the candidate to request a manual recount by protesting the results of at least three precincts. The county canvassing board would then decide whether to recount (F.S. Ch. 102.166 Part 4) as well as the method of the recount in those three precincts. If the board discovered an error, they were then authorized to recount the ballots (F.S. Ch. 102.166 Part 5). The canvassing board did not discover any errors in the tabulation process in the initial mandated recount.

The Bush campaign sued to prevent additional recounts on the basis that no errors were found in the tabulation method until subjective measures were applied in manual recounts. This case eventually reached the United States Supreme Court, which ruled 54 to stop the vote recount, allowing Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris to certify the election results. This allowed Florida's electoral votes to be cast for Bush, making him the winner. Seven of the nine Justices agreed that the lack of unified standards in counting votes violated the Constitutional guarantee of equal protection of the laws, but five agreed that there was insufficient time to impose a unified standard and that the recounts should therefore be stopped.

Gore publicly disagreed with the court's decision, but conceded the election "for the sake of our unity as a people and the strength of our democracy". He had previously made a concession phone call to Bush the night of the election, then retracted it after learning just how close the election was. Following the election, recounts conducted by various United States news media organizations indicated that Bush would have won if certain recounting methods had been used (including the one favored by Gore at the time of the Supreme Court decision) but that Gore would have won had a full state-wide recount been conducted (The American Statistitian, February 2003, Vol. 57, No.1).




So, you see, Bush only won on a technicality.  How classy is that in a representative democracy?

There was no option to recount or not in Florida -- it is mandated by law.

Of course -- since it's Wikipedia you're welcome to rewrite it anyway you want, provided you have the evidence to back up your assertions!



Now, answer the question Mike.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


28 posted 11-11-2006 07:43 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, you have confused me. You put up a Wikipedia link followed by a quote and yet some of the things you include in that quote do not come from Wikipedia....what's up with that? Nowhere in that link does it suggest that Gore "conceded the election for the sake of the country." Hell, he STILL hasn't conceded!

Some other things I DID find in the Wikipedia link, though...

On January 6, 2001, a joint-session of Congress met to certify the electoral vote. Twenty members of the House of Representatives, most of them Democratic members of the Congressional Black Caucus, rose one-by-one to file objections to the electoral votes of Florida. However, according to an 1877 law, any such objection had to be sponsored by both a representative and a senator, and no senator would co-sponsor these objections. Therefore, Gore, who was presiding in his capacity as President of the Senate, ruled each of these objections out of order.
.
.
also


Numerous media outlets made the incorrect assumption that all of Florida's polls closed at 7:00 PM EST, which was not the case. Westernmost counties in Florida had polls open until 8:00 PM EST, as they were part of the Central Time Zone, so were open for one additional hour. This region of the state traditionally voted mostly Republican. Because of the above mistaken assumption, some media outlets reported at 7:00 PM EST that all polls had closed in the state of Florida. Also, significantly, the Voter News Service called the state of Florida for Al Gore at 7:48 PM EST. A survey estimate by John McLaughlin & Associates put the number of voters who did not vote due to confusion as high as 15,000, which theoretically reduced Bush's margin of victory by an estimated 5,000 votes. This survey assumes that the turnout in the Panhandle counties (which was 65% of the electorate) would have equalled the statewide average of 68% if the media had not incorrectly reported the polls' closing time and if the state had not been called for Gore while the polls were still open. This opens the possibility that Bush would have won by a larger victory margin and controversy would have been avoided if the networks had known and reported the correct poll closing times, and called the state after all polls were closed.

Here's one, which is among the most despicable..

There were a number of overseas ballots missing postmarks or filled out in such a way that they were invalid under Florida law. A poll worker filled out the missing information on some absentee ballot applications; the Democrats moved to have the returned ballots thrown out because of this. These disputes added to the mass of litigation between parties to influence the counting of ballots. The largest group of disputed overseas ballots were military ballots, which the Republicans argued to have accepted.

The Democrats were calling for technicalities to throw out the ballots of the military voters overseas because they knew that the military vote would be predominately Republican. How low can you go?

....and this one, which is actually the most telling part of the entire election..

Gore failed to win the popular vote in his home state of Tennessee. Had he won Tennessee which he didn't because Bush campaigned extensively for it due to its bipartisan base, he could have won the election without Florida. Gore was the first major party presidential candidate to have lost his home state since George McGovern lost South Dakota in 1972.

The state that knew him best didn't want him in the Oval Office

I don't need to rewrite Wikipedia...one just needs to  quote it the right way.

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


29 posted 11-11-2006 08:11 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

When you're browsing a page Mike -- here's what you can do... copy a bit of the text you're trying to find -- then do a search page on that text -- when you do that -- you'll find everything I've quoted on the posted link.

You can quote anything you want from the page -- what you've quoted shows that Al Gore followed the law -- I don't know what your point is.

Democrats wanted the State of Florida to follow the law -- hmm... again -- I fail to see your point.

Nothing you've quoted serves as evidence of any of your allegations Mike.

The telling point about the election is that Bush won on a technicality in the Supreme Court and that the state of Florida actually elected Gore.

Now, answer the question.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


30 posted 11-11-2006 08:28 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
On January 6, 2001, a joint-session of Congress met to certify the electoral vote. Twenty members of the House of Representatives, most of them Democratic members of the Congressional Black Caucus, rose one-by-one to file objections to the electoral votes of Florida. However, according to an 1877 law, any such objection had to be sponsored by both a representative and a senator, and no senator would co-sponsor these objections. Therefore, Gore, who was presiding in his capacity as President of the Senate, ruled each of these objections out of order.


This is actually shown in Moore's movie.
Images of this scene floated through my head when I read this attempt at undercutting Gore. I just don't see how you can compare one guy with the other and call one classy and the other not.

But I guess that's just me.


Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


31 posted 11-11-2006 09:10 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

The only question for you Mike -- is if sometime when you went to vote and you felt that either by overt intent or negligence and incompetence you were denied your Constitutional right to exercise your franchise would you complain about it -- or would you be classy and just sit down and shutup?

That's the question you are repeating for me to answer? I would complain. Now it's answered and I have no idea what the connection is. That situation was not about people claiming  they were denied their constitutional rights. It was about a pr firm  manipulations.

"Mary, did the camp counselor touch you in a special place? No? All of the other children said he touched them. Why would he touch them and not you? didn't he like you, Mary?" Then, of course at some point Mary says "Well,maybe he touched me, too." Those were all of the votes they wanted changed.

Believe me, the old ladies in Palm Beach don't even have the intelligence level of Mary. It was a big joke here that senior citizens who could handle six bingo cards without missing a number couldn't punch a right hole on a ballot.

Now you can answer the question I asked..

You want to contest that? Then imagine it the way the democrats originally set it up. Thousands of democratic voters went home and, at some point during the night, they all (individually, without knowledge of the others) came to the conclusion that their votes might have gone to the wrong person and called up to report it. That sound more feasible to you, reb?

Then, if you please, tell me how you feel about the Democrats trying to throw out the military votes. You approve of the actions of the Democrats - the soldiers' friend? Or will that simply cause you to aim another finger in another direction?
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


32 posted 11-11-2006 10:44 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
The telling point about the election is that Bush won on a technicality in the Supreme Court and that the state of Florida actually elected Gore.

Technicality, Reb? Isn't that just a politically loaded word for law of the land?

The election was disputed, the dispute was legally settled, and I'm sorry but the settlement isn't negotiable or open to interpretation. The state of Florida did NOT elect Al Gore, Reb, because the highest court in the land said it didn't. Is that a technicality? That's the law.

quote:
Then, if you please, tell me how you feel about the Democrats trying to throw out the military votes.

That's another technicality, Mike, i.e., the law of the land. You can't just write your vote on a bar napkin, send it in, and call it an absentee ballot. Similarly, and for exactly the same reasons, you can't incompletely or inaccurately fill out an official absentee ballot form and expect it to count. I have no idea what was missing, or how necessary it was to help determine the legitimacy of each vote, but I do know it was legally required.

When push comes to shove, Mike, there's no such thing as military votes. They're all American votes, and the military doesn't get (nor, I believe, do they expect) a free pass.
iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


33 posted 11-11-2006 10:50 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Mike, even though you were there, you have left out some important things.  It wasn't just a Gore challenge; there were individual lawsuits filed all over the State of Florida; and if you watched the video I provided earlier, it has been proven that there was hacking into the electronic voting machine cards in one of the contested counties -- too late for Gore, though; but in time for many voting officials to be aware of the security problems with electronic voting machines.

Yes there was a recount, but they did not recount two of the most important counties; and what they recounted was against something that couldn't be traced (if the machines had been hacked).  

Yahoo News has an article from back during that time:  

quote:
"Hundreds of voters in Palm Beach County have protested against what they said was a confusing ballot layout sheet that led them to cast votes by mistake for Reform Party candidate Pat Buchanan rather than their preferred candidate Gore.".
Election Dispute

***Gore was not my choice that year so one might say (but probably not you) that I watched and read the news without  impartiality as it comes to him.***

quote:
"Researchers at the University of California, Berkeley, said today that they have uncovered statistical irregularities associated with electronic voting machines in three Florida counties that may have given President George W. Bush 130,000 or more excess votes. The researchers are now calling on state and federal authorities to look into the problems.".

Voting Machine Fraud Research


Fixed url.

[This message has been edited by Alicat (11-11-2006 11:26 PM).]

Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


34 posted 11-11-2006 11:07 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Hundreds of voters in Palm Beach County have protested against what they said was a confusing ballot layout
sheet that led them to cast votes by mistake for Reform Party candidate Pat Buchanan rather than their preferred
candidate Gore.


Fine, Iliana. Then please explain to me how these voters came to the conclusion that their votes went to Buchanan instead of Gore. Did they vote, leave, go home and then somehow determine from home that the Gore vote they cast went to Buchanan instead? Just how would they know that? The only time they could possibly know that their vote went where it was not supposed to go was at the time they cast the vote. That's what made it so ludicrous and spawned the Palm Beach voter jokes. I'd appreciate you being able to provide an answer to this.
iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


35 posted 11-11-2006 11:27 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

I don't know for sure, Mike.  But I will tell you, after I voted last Tuesday, I discussed it with my husband.  I asked him why the city's issues were not on the ballot.  He told me they were.  And then we proceeded to compare notes.  I found out that the voting machine I voted on must have been faulty because I never got the screen where the County issues were -- it just told me to cast my ballot and then ended its program.  I'm pretty ticked about it but I have no way to prove it.  I was not going to call an official over there to see my vote.  The issue that I wanted to vote no on was the light rail system.  It will raise my taxes considerably.  Was there fraud?  Who knows....I'm certain though that the City and County want this through.  Although, next time, you'd better believe I will!

My point is that after elections, people talk.  I imagine the elderly even compare notes and talk about when things are confusing to them.  Maybe they investigated.  Believe whatever the heck you want, Mike...I don't care, but when you put things up in public, they should be accurate.  

BTW, weren't you a Navy man?  I thought you wouldn't be too unhappy that a Navy man took Allen's spot.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


36 posted 11-11-2006 11:27 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

When push comes to shove, Mike, there's no such thing as military votes. They're all American votes, and the military doesn't get (nor, I believe, do they expect) a free pass.

I'll have to disagree with that in practice, Ron. When the point is missing postmarks, I believe an exception is not out of line for servicemen overseas. They fill out the  ballots, turn them in and they go to the APO to be sent to the states. They are not responsible for missing postmarks or late arrival. There are certainly "military" votes when they come from overseas and, no, the soldiers do not expect special treatment but they do count on actions beyond their control being handled correctly and, if they are not, they expect reasonable minds to take that into consideration, I believe.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


37 posted 11-11-2006 11:36 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Believe whatever the heck you want, Mike...I don't care, but when you put things up in public, they should be accurate.  


That's your answer? In other words you cannot come up with a different explanation. I agree.

As far as things should be accurate, tell that to the Democrats who designed the ballots....THANK GOD! If the ballots  had been designed by Republicans, one can only imagine the screams of foul and deception they would have come up with. As it  was, they couldn't say anything and tried to downplay the fact that the design was theirs.

No, I wasn't Navy.
iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


38 posted 11-11-2006 11:38 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Mike - The ballot was not designed by the Democratic party.  The ballot was designed by one person -- Theresa LePore, Palm Beach county's supervisor of elections, to be exact.  
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


39 posted 11-11-2006 11:41 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Fri Nov 10, 4:17 PM ET

MIAMI (Reuters) - A Florida voter may have unwittingly lost hundreds of thousands of dollars by using an extremely rare stamp to mail an absentee ballot in Tuesday's congressional election, a government official said on Friday.
ADVERTISEMENT

The 1918 Inverted Jenny stamp, which takes its name from an image of a biplane accidentally printed upside-down, turned up on Tuesday night in Fort Lauderdale, where election officials were inspecting ballots from parts of south Florida, Broward County Commissioner John Rodstrom told Reuters.

Only 100 of the stamps have ever been found, making them one of the top prizes of all philately.


The legend of the Florida voter lives on!!
JesusChristPose
Senior Member
since 06-21-2005
Posts 679
Pittsburgh, Pa


40 posted 11-11-2006 11:43 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

~ Democrats continue to miss the point about Florida. Here are the facts:

1. Even after the recounts, Bush still won.

2. Many people in the navy did not vote because the liberal media reporting that Gore won Florida, when in fact, the panhandle had 1 hour to go before the polls closed. Myself, if it were reported that Florida went to Gore, I wouldn't waste my time to vote. Why? Because the media never EVER gave a state incorrectly during a presidential election in the past.

3. Those military votes were not counted NOT DUE TO THE FAULT OF THE VOTER! Why can't people get that? Those votes SHOULD of been counted, yet Gore and his team of lawyers, who were so intent on the fairness and rights of voters .... MADLY fought to get those votes thrown out.

Now, back to the original topic, it was a touch of class, indeed. Something Gore has none of.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


41 posted 11-11-2006 11:44 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Yes, Iliana...a Democrat. I did not say the Democratic party.
JesusChristPose
Senior Member
since 06-21-2005
Posts 679
Pittsburgh, Pa


42 posted 11-11-2006 11:47 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"Mike - The ballot was not designed by the Democratic party.  The ballot was designed by one person -- Theresa LePore, Palm Beach county's supervisor of elections, to be exact."

~ In a Clay County Florida school, 4th graders were given the same ballot that was so confusing for the people in Palm Beach who claimed to have voted for Pat instead of Al because the ballot was confusing. I can't remember what the exact percentage was of how many 4th graders correctly scored the ballot, but I do remember it was over 90%

~ Oh, and another thing, I watched this on with my own eyes on a local newscast.... Gore supporters were giving out free cigarettes to people if they would register and vote for Gore. LOL.

    

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


43 posted 11-11-2006 11:47 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

And you know that for a fact, Mike?

What branch of the military were you in so I don't make that mistake again?
iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


44 posted 11-11-2006 11:49 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

JCP - And when I worked for the Republicans, we gave out free calendars, free kitchen magnets, and free giant paperclips, free posters, free pencils, and free pens.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


45 posted 11-11-2006 11:50 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Believe me, I know it as an iron-clad fact. It got a lot of news space down here.

Air Force.
JesusChristPose
Senior Member
since 06-21-2005
Posts 679
Pittsburgh, Pa


46 posted 11-11-2006 11:53 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"JCP - And when I worked for the Republicans, we gave out free calendars, free kitchen magents, and free giant paperclips, free posters, free pencils, and free pens."

~ Well, I am not sure on the day of a presidential election, people who are not going to vote would vote for the republican just because they were offered free pencils and pens. You missed the point.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


47 posted 11-11-2006 11:53 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

JCP...thank you! I had completely forgotten about the school kid tests they ran...LOL! Better proof of the Palm Beach voter mentality

I'm afraid your point about giving out cigarettes was lost on Iliana....ah,well
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


48 posted 11-12-2006 12:12 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Actually, I see nothing confusing about the ballot at all..

iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


49 posted 11-12-2006 12:13 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Mike and JCP, are you now defining people by whether they are smokers or not?  You mean to tell me that cigarettes motivate voters more than other things?  Come on...that's a pretty lame scenario.  That's about as close as you can come to saying for Christmas, a person gives their "servants" a carton of cigarettes (like my now deceased wealthy plantation owner uncle from Northern Florida used to do -- uncle by marriage mind you -- almost don't want to claim him but he had good points too).  Are you saying the African American vote was bought and paid for with cigarettes?  Shame on you, if you are.  (You should visit Wall Street.)  

BTW -- I hope your Veterans Day was good.
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> A Touch of Class   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors