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Wow, Where is the Rumsfeld Topic?

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JesusChristPose
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0 posted 11-08-2006 07:11 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

I thought for certain we would already have at least ONE thread about the sacking of Rumsfeld.

Too little, too late for the Republicans.


"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."
iliana
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1 posted 11-08-2006 08:28 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Perhaps you should start a new thread about the new appointee, Mr. Gates, as he does have a shadow on his record.  
Alicat
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2 posted 11-08-2006 08:29 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well, for starters, Rumsfeld wasn't sacked, fired, dismissed, given a pink slip....he resigned, stepped down, quit.  Sure, you could claim semantics, but there is quite a difference between getting sacked and stepping down.

Given the exuberance among liberals and democrats, I guess what they don't realize just yet is not only is their favorite whipping boy (aside from President Bush) gone, but he's a private citizen now so there's nothing they can do to him. No inquiries, no retribution committees, nada.
Huan Yi
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3 posted 11-08-2006 08:42 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

But of course this will change everything in
the Middle East.   All our problems are solved.
Why didnít it happen earlier?


.
Ringo
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4 posted 11-08-2006 08:53 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

quote:
But of course this will change everything in
the Middle East.   All our problems are solved.
Why didnít it happen earlier?


Sarcasm. I recognize it.

You may burn my flag... only after you wrap yourself in it first.
www.myspace.com/mindlesspoet

Mistletoe Angel
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5 posted 11-08-2006 09:52 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I too absolutely agree had the decision to replace Rumsfeld with Gates was made prior to yesterday's elections, the GOP would undoubtedly hold control of the Senate.

I'm still quite surprised the Democrats took the Senate. I knew the Democrats would take the House (I predicted 23 seats) and I predicted Tester and Webb would win by small margins, but I figured Talent would win in Missouri, given the state has a high evangelical population and historically is home to one of the best-organized GOP GOTV operations, and also thought Chaffee could benefit from the popularity of moderate Republicans such as Olympia Snowe, thus we would have a GOP-held one-seat Senate majority.

A huge opportunity was blown by the GOP here I believe, and I bet there's a lot of harsh finger-pointing internally happening in the party right now, particularly on Karl Rove I imagine.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Ringo
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6 posted 11-08-2006 11:08 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Uh... it seems to me that the Senate is still a 50/50 tie... Virginia is long from setled

You may burn my flag... only after you wrap yourself in it first.
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JesusChristPose
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7 posted 11-08-2006 11:13 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"Well, for starters, Rumsfeld wasn't sacked, fired, dismissed, given a pink slip....he resigned, stepped down, quit.  Sure, you could claim semantics, but there is quite a difference between getting sacked and stepping down."

~ He was sacked. Bush allowed him to "save face" by allowing him to "step down," but that is how it goes across politics, or the corporate world.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Alicat
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8 posted 11-09-2006 12:04 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Heh, that's like saying you weren't fired from a job, but your boss allowed you to save face with a two-week notice prior to quitting.
Mistletoe Angel
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9 posted 11-09-2006 12:58 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

It's true, Ringo, that the Allen-Webb race has yet to officially declare a winner, given that the margin between the two candidates is a mere .3%, thus there will be a full recount and there SHOULD be one. Every exceptionally honest close election deserves a honest full recount.

However, I think it's safe to say Webb all but certainly has this one. I stayed up to 2 A.M last night watching election night coverage and I recall sometime around 12:15 A.M it was announced when Webb had picked up the late lead that eight precincts remained to be counted, and six of the eight precincts were in districts generally favorable to the Democrats.

Also, I heard that only twice in recent state history has Virginia had statewide vote recounts, and both resulted in vote changes of no more than a few hundred votes. The current divide between the two candidates is 7,236 votes, which unquestionably is incredibly close, but following a re-count is highly unlikely to close up a margin that wide.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
JesusChristPose
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10 posted 11-09-2006 01:27 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"Heh, that's like saying you weren't fired from a job, but your boss allowed you to save face with a two-week notice prior to quitting."

~ Um, it is a common practice in that type of political relationship to be allowed to resign and save face, when in actuality, one was truly sacked. It is also handled that way at the management level in many types of business organizations.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Midnitesun
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11 posted 11-09-2006 01:31 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

JCP is porbably right.
But now, let's move forward.
Away from war, away from revenge, away from
all the spitting contests...please.
Balladeer
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12 posted 11-09-2006 03:58 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, we are certainly moving away from war. Pelosi said today that Iraq is not a war, but a "situation" to be resolved.

BTW, for all claiming the Democrats have control of the Senate, may I remind you they do not necessarily? Let's not forget Liebermann. on any issues he sides with Republicans it's a split Senate. The Democrats, after tossing him to the wolves for disagreeing with them, are exercizing their best woo tactics now to bring him back into the fold. He's no fool. Right now it is great being Liebermann  
Not A Poet
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13 posted 11-09-2006 04:28 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

I'm afraid that's wishful thinking on your part Mike. Joe has said all along he intends to caucus with the democrats and I'm sure he will. After the way they treated him in the primaries, he should by all rights tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. I'm sure the republicans would be more than happy to extend him all the perks the democrats are now promising. Sadly though I expect him to remain "a lifelong democrat."
Alicat
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14 posted 11-09-2006 04:36 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well then, I guess President Bush is more competent that most detractors give him credit, for he managed not only to 'sack' Secretary Rumsfeld in the morning, but had a replacement picked, primed and ready to go within a few minutes of said 'sacking'.  Guess everyone can disregard the AP, Reuters, CNBC, CNN, FOX and C-SPAN for the comments that the President and Secretary Rumsfeld had been in talks about his departure for several weeks.

Which would constitute a two-week notice.
Ron
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15 posted 11-09-2006 08:59 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

You sure about that, Ali?

quote:
Yet only a week ago, Bush told The Associated Press and other reporters in an interview that he expected Rumsfeld and Cheney to stay through the end of his last two years in the White House.


Oh, okay, wait. That same article goes on to immediately report, "Asked Wednesday about that comment, Bush acknowledged he intentionally misled reporters because he want to avoid a change at the Pentagon during a hotly contested election."

I had to laugh as I watched the news conference because, just two or three questions after the President admitted he lied earlier, someone asked, "Cheney ... takes many of the same positions as Secretary Rumsfeld did on the war. Does he still have your complete confidence?"

To which Bush curtly replied, "Yes, he does."  Three times.

I just couldn't believe no one asked the obvious follow-up question.

And we should believe you this time because?
JesusChristPose
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16 posted 11-09-2006 10:24 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"... But now, let's move forward.
Away from war, away from revenge, away from
all the spitting contests...please."


~ Agreed. We need a strategy that gets our men and women back home asap.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Brad
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17 posted 11-09-2006 11:09 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Was Rumsfeldt good at his job?

Not A Poet
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18 posted 11-10-2006 09:40 AM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

History will have to answer that one.
rhia_5779
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19 posted 11-10-2006 02:45 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

Hasn't it already?
JesusChristPose
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20 posted 11-10-2006 05:02 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

~ No, it hasn't.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Not A Poet
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21 posted 11-10-2006 06:15 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

History doesn't work that fast
Brad
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22 posted 11-10-2006 09:26 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

History doesn't speak, historians do.

So, nobody's going to defend his job performance?

Why wasn't he kicked out earlier?

Limbaugh points out that Rumsfeldt is only the beginning, that the dems will not be appeased by this sacrificial lamb.

I hope he's right.

JesusChristPose
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23 posted 11-10-2006 11:49 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"History doesn't speak, historians do.
~ Historians speak about history. Therefore, history speaks. Semantics, that is all that is.

So, nobody's going to defend his job performance?

~ Well, at this time it appears his job performance sucked. We will know more in the future when history speaks.

Why wasn't he kicked out earlier?

~ That question only Bush and his top advisors could answer.

Limbaugh points out that Rumsfeldt is only the beginning, that the dems will not be appeased by this sacrificial lamb.

I hope he's right.

~ I hope he is wrong. It is a time for healing and for both parties to work together. We have some serious problems that need taken care of, only with a bipartisan government can we get things done. If the dems decide to go on a "witch hunt" that would only make things worse.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Mistletoe Angel
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24 posted 11-11-2006 08:13 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I just wanted to add some additional insight here to why I believe both Rumsfeld's ouster and Robert Gates' induction is HUGE in regard to both the war in Iraq and potential conflicts/resolutions with Iran and other nations.

First of all, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and George W. Bush have all appeared and have been linked as a sort of triumvirate toward the war in Iraq, but more generally in promotion of the neoconservative "long war" foreign policy agenda, which essentially believes in America's ability to shape the world in its own image, and see the United States as a "benevolent hegemony" with the power to compel other nations to adopt liberal democracy, which Iraq was a experiment of theirs in hope of ultimately evolving into a bastion of democracy in the Middle East.

The removal of Rumsfeld has broken that triumvirate, and in result has not only put the neoconservatives in disarray in the White House and the Pentagon; it has polarized them, where you have Richard Perle now openly admitting in January 2007's edition of Vanity Fair that we could have stopped Hussein from building any form of unconventional weapons "by means other than a direct military intervention."

Then there's also Ken Adelman, who was quoted in 2002 for saying that liberating Iraq would be a "cakewalk" and now has said in this Vanity Fair article:

*

"I just presumed that what I considered to be the most competent national security team since Truman was indeed going to be competent. They turned out to be among the most incompetent teams in the post-war era."

*

But what's even more interesting about the ouster of Rumsfeld and the inviting of Robert Gates is that President Bush is basically railing against Vice President Cheney's approach to the war on terror, who is more attuned to the neoconservative ideals. Now following this election and the removal of Rumsfeld, Cheney (who heavily influenced the Bush Administration during the first term) has lost much of his political clout and is even beginning to get called a "lame duck vice president" a lot.

In contrast to Rumsfeld, who alligns more with the neoconservative way of thinking on foreign policy, Robert Gates is alligned with a more pragmatic, realist approach to foreign policy that is more reminiscent of Bush #41 than Bush #43, who is a member of the Iraq Study Group co-chaired by former Secretary of State, James Baker, who Baker himself has suggested that there is an alternative between "staying the course" and "cut and run".

It's important that we don't forget that many of President Bush #41's senior advisers have been surrounding President Bush #43 for the past six years, and also that Gates himself was more of a hawk during the Cold War era. But I think this whole transition is groundbreaking in that it can arguably represent both the beginning of the end toward making the transition to ending our occupation in Iraq, and the beginning of the end of the neoconservative revolution in the White House and the Pentagon at least to some extent.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
 
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