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Stupid is as Stupid does, Sir

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Ringo
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25 posted 11-02-2006 07:52 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Noah, my friend, I have to side with the others on this one. THe generals in the field are more responsible for the war than any one individual elsewhere. While the President normally just makes the statement "We are going into (country) and our goal is to (desired result)", it is left to the Joint Chief's to decide how to deploy the various resources. Once that decision is made, it is the leadership in theater that makes the decisions on how the war is fought.
If you would like, pass the blame around and give some to the President, and the SecDef, and the Joint Chiefs.. I will help you to do so. The fact of the matter is, the generals are mostly to blame, as he said.
I will give you the analogy I gave you when the Abu Grabe thing happened. The Superintendant of a school system decides that the curriculum of the US History class needs to be changed to include more of the Populist movement... He does not decide what specific ways the class needs to be taught, or what specific examples to use, or what specific tests to be given. He leaves that to the Principals and the Teachers... the leaders in the trenches, so to speak. Same thing here. While the Superintendant is ultimately responsible (as I believe the President, and SecDef, and others are) it is the Generals on the ground that are making the majority of the important decisions on how the war gets fought.
Now... having said that... Bringing up something like that to attempt to take the attention off the John Kerry incident is as partisan, and as petty and as petulant as anyone could possibly be. This is akin to a child telling his mother that he is sorry that he got caught calling his sister names, and that he shouldn't be punished because his brother was climbing a tree.
No, it didn't make sense, and that was the point.

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Brad
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26 posted 11-02-2006 08:00 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Does anyone else not see the irony in all of your comments?

Not the tinman, not the lion.

The strawman?
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601019_after_pats_birthday/
iliana
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27 posted 11-02-2006 09:56 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Thanks, Brad.  I'm glad there are still a few people familiar with the Constitution.  You know what, Brad?  Wonder if anyone has ever read the Declaration of Independence?  I'm totally baffled why people are not talking more about what is really going on in this country -- is it because everyone is afraid or are they just too thick or stubborn to see it; or maybe just too busy earning a living?  Keith Olbermann shows no fear....one of the few public journalists who doesn't...it's worth searching out what he has to say about the situation; you can find several video clips of him on the net if you do a search addressing these issues.  

Personally, I think John Boehner of Ohio just passed the buck...to me, that shows little backbone for a guy in line to be speaker of the house.  I could take a position that maybe he was just trying to say that there is more than one person on the team; after all he is a jock.  But, talk about inarticulate (if that's what he meant).  Is it a disease that is catching....I mean....Bush....then Kerry....and now Boehner....lol!  Or, are all their misstatements merely freudian slips?  And, if the generals are in charge and the mess in Iraq is their fault, well isn't there a Commander-in-Chief over them?  And isn't that where the buck stops?Gee, I wonder how Boenher's statement resonated with the generals.

[This message has been edited by iliana (11-02-2006 11:28 PM).]

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28 posted 11-02-2006 10:20 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

what was that link supose to mean.

-Juju

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29 posted 11-02-2006 10:38 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

The bottom line is Kerry screwed up ... big time! He gave the Republicans fodder when the Republicans were in trouble, thereby helping the Republican cause.

No doubt, if Clinton was in Kerry's shoes, he would NOT of screwed up like Kerry.

All this goes to show that Kerry isn't the man for the White House either.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Brad
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30 posted 11-02-2006 11:27 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
Wonder if anyone has ever read the Declaration of Independence?


Yeah, I thought Tillman did that quite well.

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31 posted 11-02-2006 11:36 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I believe my previous comment was largely misinterpreted.

The question I was posing to those who are accusing Kerry of troop-bashing was NOT whether Boehner was doing likewise or not, as I explicitly stated in the previous comment that I DON'T believe he was doing that at all on Wolf Blitzer's program.

The question I DID pose was that, if Kerry's comment could be approached that way by merely close-reading the particular quotation selected and dis-regarding the rest of the transcript, doesn't it also make sense that when Boehner's particular comment is close-read as it is without regard to the rest of the transcript that his comment TOO could be interpreted another way?

I assure you my purpose in bringing up Bohener's example was not to stray from the topic at hand, but rather consider the general point in how people's words can so easily be taken out of context, and in considering how we approach this dilemma and train to read around the specific comment by considering what was said before and after, and recognizing the greater context.

That's the whole point I was making to begin with; I believe BOTH these individual's words have been taken out of context, and when stones are cast and accusations are made that sprout from such misunderstanding, I for one believe it is a most unfortunate and even dangerous thing.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

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32 posted 11-03-2006 12:02 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I believe Kerry's comment won't affect the elections five days from now, except in boldening those that were already very much intending to vote for the other party, and possibly make a few swing voters nationally who were thinking about voting this season but heard childish words from both sides and then happen to experience blizzard weather on Election Day decide to stay home, believing it's not worth it driving through the snow and waiting hours in the library just to vote for the lesser of two childish politicians.

The fact is, both parties have their problems right now; the GOP is struggling with the issues of Iraq and a recent Foley scandal in particular, and the Democrats are seen widely as wanting to raise taxes and having no specific alternatives that would benefit the country, and because I believe the problems our nation is facing are so varied and culminated, this particular blurb will, in the end, hardly do anything, especially in that voters will recognize Kerry is not up for any sort of re-election this season, and will reject the straw-man argument that the Democratic Party in general frowns upon our troops, when in fact both parties care and honor them very much despite some ideological disagreements.

I believe the American public is smarter than the straw-man arguments both sides project in the media environment. Most voters recognize John Kerry is a Democrat, but his views are his own, not representative of the whole Democratic party, just like Mark Foley is a Republican, but his views are his own, not representative of the entire Republican party.

I believe the vast majority of voters will unanimously understand that, even if they thought what Kerry said was insensitive, will reject the straw-man that all Democrats think like him, just like even if they took offense over Foley's AIM conversations, will reject the straw-man that all Republicans are involved in these sorts of things, and vote based on their opinions toward the candidates in their own state or district, NOT based on an out-of-state individual not up for re-election.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

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33 posted 11-03-2006 03:38 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

There is one small thing that I have a challenge with in regards to Kevin Tillman's post on the page you gave us:
quote:
Luckily this country is still a democracy.

This country is NOT, as we are taught in school, a democracy. The United States, on a national level, is a flat out Republic, wherein the people elect those that make the decisions. A minor point, possibly; however, a common misconception.

Actually, I ahve a couple of challenges with Mr. Tillman's post, yet they don't really have to do with the thread at hand, so I'll leave them out of my reply.

As for John Boehner passing the buck: It isn't his to pass. Rep. Boehner stands absolutely nowhere in the chain of command for the miltary. While he can take no credit for any of the good that is being done in Iraq, he cannot- by the same token- be handed any blame for anything that people don't like about the war. He was, very simply, stating the facts as he (and many others) see it: the leadership on the ground usually has more to do with the way a war if fought than some politician who sits in an ivory tower 10,000 miles away. While Rep. Boehner placed the blame on the leadership, Sen. Kerry appeared to place a sweeping generality on the service members around the world.
Once Rep. Boehner made his statement, the Democratic leadership immediately jumped on it and accused him of blaming the troops for the failures and downturns in the war. As Noah is asking us to fully read Sen. Kerry's statements from 1971, I am asking you to read Rep. Boehner's statement again. He said (among other things): "The fact is, the generals on the ground are in charge...". Now, ppossibly the fact that I am a Marine, and (impending gratuitous dig) part of the uneducated masses, I cannot truly understand a man's words when he states them, yet it seems to me that he very specifically does NOT blame the troops, but rather the leadership. What Sen. Dean and others are doing is attempting to is to shift the focus away from Sen. Kerry, andplace it back on the Republicans in an attempt to do a bit of damage control... thereby bringing the troops back into the picture, just as Sen. Kerry was accused of doing.

As far as Sen. Kerry's "apology"... Oh, puh-leez. He apologized for being mis-interpreted. Perhaps my parents were a bit too strict, yet if I apologized to them for them thinking I had said something wrong, instead of apologizing for saying it, then it would not have been a fun time on the old homestead. The apology would not have been accepted, as it would not have been sincere.

quote:
Wonder if anyone has ever read the Declaration of Independence?

ACtually, yes, I have... and I am wondering what it has to do with the current flap. The Declaration of Independene was very simply a list of greivances the colonies had against their King and stated the fact that the separate colonies were (in the immortal words of Jeff Spicoli) "going to have to get some cool rules of their own."
As you brought this document into the picture, there are several ways that it can be taken, which can also be used to prove the point that what people say is very much open to misuse, and use for someone's own evil intent:
Quote 1) "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. "
Actually that is what we are supporting in Iraq. The previous government was denying that, and we stepped in to help them regain these freedoms.

Quote 2) "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..."
Does that mean you are suggesting that the people iverthrow the current government because it is, in your thoughts destructive of these ends?" NO, of course, not. I do not for a second believe that... HOWEVER, that is the very thing that is being done, here, with both Sen. Kerry and Rep. Boehner: their words are being used in a way that was never meant, and being interpreted by someone in the worst possible way to attack them.

As my friend Noah has stated, Both of these men's words were taken for a ride by political operatives who had an agenda of their own that had nothing to do with the best interests of anyone other than themselves. I stated in my opening post for this thread that I believe Sen. Kerry was actually making (well, attempting to make) a joke at the President's expense. The Republicans used it to boost their flagging poll numbers and to assist with their chances in the upcoming elections.
Rep. Boehner made a statement that placed the failures of the war flat on the generals on the ground, and Sen. Dean (among others) immediately used it in a weak attempt to score very cheap political points.
It all boils down to my original premise: Senator John Kerry should have immediately apologized for mis-speaking himself, as most responsible adults would have done, and thbis entire thing would have been over with, and the Republicans would not have been given anything to deal with. Something along the lines of:
"I was very simply attempting to make a comment about the President's policies in Iraq, and did so very badly. I certainly meant no disrespect to any of our men and women in uniform, and regret any implication that I did."

Now, Mr. Kerry... How friggin' hard was that?

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34 posted 11-03-2006 09:24 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Leave it to Brad.....a few cryptic words people are supposed to figure out, a link to a radical left-wing website, and then a retreat back to nowhere. Nice to see you haven't lost your touch, brad.  

Or, are all their misstatements merely freudian slips?  And, if the generals are in charge and the mess in Iraq is their fault, well isn't there a Commander-in-Chief over them?

Well, hey, that's right, Iliana,so that must mean that everyone who has criticized Bush or called him names must actually be belittling every member of the military. Will every Democrat in Congress and every citizen in the country against Bush line up please?  Can't you see how ridiculous the example Noah agrees with, and which you support, is?  You all are acting   just like Kerry. All he had to do was say, "Oops....that didn't come out right". It wouldn't have dismissed it completely due to his history of bashing soldiers but the incident would have died very quickly. All you, noah, or the democrats off on their new retaliatory witchhunt,  had to say was, "Oops, Kerry screwed up." and that would have ended it, also. Kerry was not smart enough to do so and, apparently, he has a lot of company. So, by all means, keep citing the Declaration and looking for directions in which to point fingers. It just keeps it alive and makes the Democratic party look more ridiculous. Is it a disease that is catching....I mean....Bush....then Kerry....and now Boehner....lol!   It's appropriate that you put a lol at the end. That attempt is comical, at best.
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35 posted 11-03-2006 02:02 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

One thing which hasn't quite been touched up on regarding Kerry's embarrassing joke-failure is how, ultimately, it brings the issue of Iraq back to center-stage.

Semi-ironically, the interesting thing about this whole Kerry gaffe debate is that ultimately, it's quite likely going to hurt the White House and the GOP more, in that it forces the Iraq war debate back into the headlines, which is an issue unfavorable for the GOP this election season, where polls indicate support for both the war and the handling of it at all-time lows, 70% believing the president has no plan for victory, and a slight majority believing it's separate from the war on terror.

Obviously, a vast majority of the time gaffes hurt the individual's own party. But here we have a case where while the gaffe may damage the individual, it also pulls with him a wider issue into the public eye that hurts otherwise.

It's kind of like what happened with a recent Bob Corker ad in Tennessee, which accused his challenger Harold Ford Jr. of sleeping with Playboy bunnies and such. Although one poll I saw revealed 77% of Americans believing that ad was over the line, it actually ended up hurting Ford Jr. more because the ad was successful in one way; distracting him from speaking about faith and the issues on the campaign trail, and forcing him on the defense.

So really, if I were the White House, I WOULDN'T continue to be trying to push this Kerry issue out there, because I believe they realize continuing to harp on this will only bring the Iraq War back into the spotlight, which voters identify as THE top issue in the polls, especially when Tony Snow already commended Kerry for his apology, and if I were a GOP strategist, I would suggest going on the offense on the economy issue, where Bush's numbers on that issue have improved considerably in recent weeks.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
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36 posted 11-03-2006 02:09 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Thank you Brad, for I had not read the Tillman article.
Kerry was careless and stupid. War is not a joking matter. But his words are forever doomed to be twisted in gnarly mindless semantics, because of political agendas.
iliana
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37 posted 11-03-2006 05:55 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Ringo, just to clarify -- I was not at all referring to the team as meaning all the troops.  What I was referring to was generals, secretary of defense, joint chiefs of staff and the Commander in Chief -- the leadership.  I am correct in saying the buck stops with the President.  That is where it stops period.

Mike, yes, you are right, it was a terrible joke -- that was the point.  I want to ask you point blank, are you in favor of our Constitution being destroyed?  I have to wonder about your stance there because by your continued suggestions that anyone who is trying to defend it is a liberal or a Democrat.  I think you are very, very mistaken to call us that and try to give it a negative spin -- several of us are neither, but even if we were, your bias against those words nullifies your arguments -- we just care about how this country is going to be for our children and our grandchildren.  We hope they still have the same freedoms and prosperities that we have experienced.  

You have to be kidding about Rep. Boehner not having any responsibility.  Our Congress does have responsibility to keep in check the office of the Presidency (and his administration).  It is they who vote for war or give the President his power.  There is inherent responsibility with the office.  And I can say with full confidence, if things were going well in Iraq, the honorable Rep. Boehner would most certainly take credit for it as a Republican thing!


[This message has been edited by iliana (11-03-2006 06:33 PM).]

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38 posted 11-03-2006 06:47 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

And I can say with full confidence, if things were going well in Iraq, the honorable Rep. Boehner would most certainly take credit for it as a Republican thing!



Undoubtedly true, but, were the war going well there would be a plethora of Democrats who voted (to give the President the option, ahem --nearly all of them)clamoring to say me too... me too.

Politicians get used to talking to the people in the room and forget that when cameras are rolling they are talking to the world in essence.  

Maybe Kerry misspoke. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt... but, let's not mistake what his political objective was here -- to focus all the attention on himself -- and to play to the anti-war base and try to become the voice of that group as he's wrangling for another Dem nomination for Pres...

On the upside -- it looks like in 2008 we won't be choosing between Freddy and Jason as Obama keeps gaining ground as does Giulliani... I could possibly feel Ok about voting for either one of these guys... but...

The advantage Obama has is that he has no record...which is a disadvantage for us who have to decide.

The advantage Giulliani has is a great record -- but, his disadvantage is the 'same old gaurd' are likely to follow him right back into the White House..

we'll see...

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39 posted 11-03-2006 07:38 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
a few cryptic words people are supposed to figure out, a link to a radical left-wing website, and then a retreat back to nowhere. Nice to see you haven't lost your touch, brad.


C'mon, Mike, do I really have to explain the Wizard of Oz to you?  

quote:
All he had to do was say, "Oops....that didn't come out right". It wouldn't have dismissed it completely due to his history of bashing soldiers but the incident would have died very quickly. All you, noah, or the democrats off on their new retaliatory witchhunt,  had to say was, "Oops, Kerry screwed up." and that would have ended it
.

Are you kidding? Kerry is a target of hatred because he is perceived as bashing soldiers in Vietnam. Nothing he will ever say will change that perception. Okay, maybe, a Horowitz conversion or something like that, but then that wouldn't be Kerry.

Personally, this whole thing reminds me of the N word scandal. Edit: apparently the word used is no long allowed on this forum.

PC whining at its best.

But it's good to get back to the petty bickering with Mike. It feels like home again.

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40 posted 11-03-2006 07:58 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Semi-ironically, the interesting thing about this whole Kerry gaffe debate is that ultimately, it's quite likely going to hurt the White House and the GOP more, in that it forces the Iraq war debate back into the headlines,

Noah, I'm not sure what is happening wherever you live but I can assure you the Iraq is  in the headlines every day in  Florida - and on the national evening news. Back into the headlines? Show me a day where it has left.

Maybe Kerry misspoke.  That's quite a consession, LR!


You have to be kidding about Rep. Boehner not having any responsibility.

we just care about how this country is going to be for our children and our grandchildren.  We hope they still have the same freedoms and prosperities that we have experienced.  


Good for you, Iliana, but what in the world does that have to do with Kerry's remark? That's right - not a thing.

I want to ask you point blank, are you in favor of our Constitution being destroyed?

Well, I guess you found me out. I have been on a mission my whole life to be certain that the constitution would go down in flames. I joined the service to infiltrate the Pentagon and went to Viet Nam because I heard it was a good place to meet girls. What I would respond to you "point blank" in answer to your question would not be allowed to be printed in these hallowed halls. I will simply take your question as an indication that we have had enough interraction.

Rebel,  I would say Obama has a shot. Basically, he is a Clinton type. I don't mean that in a negative way. What I mean is that no one really knows if he would be good at it or not but he has the type of personality that would receive a lot of votes. Clinton proved that a good amount of charisma  can get you in the Oval office.  He will have to remind Ted Kennedy not to call him Osama anymore, though
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41 posted 11-03-2006 08:12 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

We recently had someone at our venue
who said something not all that popular.
He said we have an enemy and hes trying to kill us.

I wonder if all this is not degrees of inability
to believe or grasp that?

Josephus remarked that, during the siege of Jerusalem,
the Jews loosed more arrows on each other
than they did on the Romans outside their walls.

It is a historical fact that Jews rounded up
and led Jews to the cattle cars that took them
to the gas chambers because most refused to believe
what awaited them at the end of the line.

All this argument while a whole different way
of thinking presses in.


.
iliana
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42 posted 11-03-2006 08:25 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Mike, I apologize if you were offended.  I figured you would answer, "of course not."  But instead, so much cynicism.  I asked you the question so you would stop for a minute and think about how the rest of us feel when we are accused of being left wing liberals with the insinuation we are not patriotic.

Also, Mike, this statement of mine,  "You have to be kidding about Rep. Boehner not having any responsibility.  Our Congress does have responsibility to keep in check the office of the Presidency (and his administration).  It is they who vote for war or give the President his power.  There is inherent responsibility with the office.  And I can say with full confidence, if things were going well in Iraq, the honorable Rep. Boehner would most certainly take credit for it as a Republican thing! was in response to something Ringo had written regarding Boehner's responsibility.    

And this statement of mine:  "...we just care about how this country is going to be for our children and our grandchildren.  We hope they still have the same freedoms and prosperities that we have experienced" -- and then your response:  "Good for you, Iliana, but what in the world does that have to do with Kerry's remark? That's right - not a thing" HAS EVERTHING TO DO WITH your comment earlier accusing me of acting like Kerry or being a left winger or a Democrat (which I am NOT!!!).  If anything, I am an old-fashioned fiscal conservative, moderate Republican (except for affirming the death sentence) who believes in limited federal government and more states' rights (and responsibilities) and who has been disappointed with Republican candidates for 20 odd years.  We've been over this before.  The very definition of moderate Republican has been terribly distorted over the past two decades and misrepresented by people who claim to be moderate but are actually very radical, particularly with regard to fiscal policy and expansion of federal control with it reaching its fingers into every avenue of our existence.          

Ringo, I wanted to thank you for pointing out that this is a republic...something my son and I were discussing just last week and so many people don't realize it.  

No matter what you Mike (or you Ringo) may think of my views on politics, rest assured I prayed every night for your (meaning all servicemen/women) safety whether you were in Viet Nam or serving this nation in armed conflict elsewhere and have always honored and prayed for our servicemen/women and their families. And, Ringo, my first husband was a Marine, too.  I did his stint with him and it was during the Viet Nam War.  

Huan Yi, you made your point very well.  

[This message has been edited by iliana (11-04-2006 05:03 AM).]

Brad
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43 posted 11-03-2006 09:44 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
Huan Yi, you made your point very well.


I don't think so. Oh, the sentiment is fine. I'm sure there are people out there who would like to kill 'us'. I'm sure some of 'us' would like to kill 'them'. I'm sure some of 'us' would like to kill 'us'.

But other than 'be prepared' what other response is possible?

I don't have time, I wish I did, to go into a detailed discussion here but Orwellian doesn't have to play with opposites, it simply confuses the general with the specific.

It is the propogation of fear without a target.

What's the word for that?  
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44 posted 11-03-2006 10:52 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

I find irony in Kerry's statement. It was a very stupid statement.  Irregardless of what he ment, I could out of amusement point out times were (you know who you are) took bush comments that were mispronunciations and though you know what he meant.  It was just a stupid comment by Bush. some went farther (you know who you are) and said that it was poof of his intelligence.

I am not defending Bush. Just amused.  

-Juju

-"So you found a girl
Who thinks really deep thougts
What's so amazing about really deep thoughts " Silent all these Years, Tori Amos

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45 posted 11-03-2006 11:41 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

It's no concession Mike.  Merely my opinion.

What is it exactly that you think I've conceded?
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46 posted 11-04-2006 07:54 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Maybe Kerry misspoke.

I just found it interesting, LR, that no one seems to think Kerry did not misspeak with his verbal missed field goal - not even any Democrat, including Pelosi or Clinton, not any newspaper, not even anyone here in this discussion - not even Kerry himself - and yet you would still choose to preface your comment with "maybe", as if acknowledging that fact would be too much of a concession to make. Just found your choice of words to be curious, that's all.

Welcome back, Brad

[This message has been edited by Balladeer (11-04-2006 10:16 AM).]

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47 posted 11-04-2006 06:10 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Oh, I think the Dems are more than happy to see John sit down and shut up.  I can't know that it was a mis-statement.  It's more plausible than Allen's Maccacca statement.  But even the official 'text' wouldn't have been a great 'joke'.

Humor is hard.  Amateurs shouldn't try it.  If they do -- they have to make sure the joke is on themselves.  In the end -- it turned out to be.

Except for the guffaws I howled when GW, in response, said that a leader has to know that the words he chooses are important.  

Yeah! That's right Mr. President... our boys on that CRUSADE need to know that we support them.
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48 posted 11-05-2006 01:01 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

Quote 1) "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. "
Actually that is what we are supporting in Iraq. The previous government was denying that, and we stepped in to help them regain these freedoms.

OH Really, is it our place to do so? I do not think so. Who made the U.S world police? THat may be our contsitution, OUR constitution not theirs that was not at all up to us.

Also note to Huan Yi, it was the nazi's who rounded up the jews, not jews who rounded up jews.


Personally I am a democrat, and I am really sick and tired of seeing Kerry open his mouth and just plunge my party deeper into trouble. I think most of my party and AMerica wouldn't mind if he shut up.
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49 posted 11-05-2006 02:16 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

quote:
OH Really, is it our place to do so? I do not think so. Who made the U.S world police?

THe WORLD made the United States the World's police. Going back to before the modern war era that every child is suppposed to learn about in shcool ,it has fallen to the United States (along with the help of others) to police the world's shores.
A few examples:
From 1898-1934 American Military personnel (mostly Marines) were stationed in several Cental American and Carribean nations to maintain the peace and to educate the population in an event known as the Banana Wars.
In 1990, the Chinese had themselves a little conflict that became known as the Boxer Rebellion. America, in addition to the Austrians, Germans, Italians, French,and Russians were sent to ensure the epace and maintain the safety of the Chinese people from, mostly in the end, the Japanese. The Americans were among the last of the foriegn troops to leave Chinese soil.

Getting to the more "popular" American history, WWI was initially ignored by the American government, who were adopting a position of neutrality. The rest of the Allied Powers kept insisting that the Americans enter the war to Defeat Germany, which we eventually did.

In WWII ,we were fighting in Europe to defeat (mainly) Germany, who was (among other things) treating their citizens (the Jews) by raping, killing, torturing, robbing, etc. The Japanese front actually had it's basis in the 30's and before with the Japanese doing the same to anyone in Asia who would not join their "organization".

Korea, we foguht to protect South Korea from the Aggressive members of their contry (the North Koreans)

In Vietnam, American Soldiers spent as much time defending the citizens from the VC as they did fighting.

History has shows us, over and over, to be the world's police going back to before the beginning of the 20th century.

quote:
it was the nazi's who rounded up the jews, not jews who rounded up jews

Who was it turning the Jews into the Germans?

You may burn my flag... only after you wrap yourself in it first.
www.myspace.com/mindlesspoet

 
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