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Political Attack Ads & eventually Michael J Fox

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Brian James
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0 posted 10-26-2006 08:49 PM       View Profile for Brian James   Email Brian James   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brian James

http://nelson.sitebuilder.completecampaigns.com/common/media.php?id=6398

If you have trouble loading this video, see it on Google video:  http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-359178184718168284&q=ron+kind

Now this ad might be a little inappropriate for the workplace, or something.  You can watch it here, online.

My response from watching this ad:  hilarious, but sadly not at all hard to believe.


[This message has been edited by Brian James (10-28-2006 06:00 PM).]

iliana
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1 posted 10-26-2006 09:00 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Brian, for some reason, I can't get the video to start.  Is it working?
Brian James
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2 posted 10-26-2006 09:01 PM       View Profile for Brian James   Email Brian James   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brian James

Try the link to the version on Google video that I added in my edit.
Essorant
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3 posted 10-26-2006 10:47 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

You must be really bored tonight, Brian.  

That video is garbage.

iliana
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4 posted 10-27-2006 12:13 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Thanks for the other link,Brian.  It worked.  I agree with Ess that it is garbage, especially if it is the truth.  What is with these people anyhow...is everybody in congress a sex addict?  LOL...but sad, too.
Brian James
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5 posted 10-27-2006 04:16 PM       View Profile for Brian James   Email Brian James   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brian James

Oh chill out, Ess.  You can't just have some fun for a change?
Christopher
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6 posted 10-27-2006 06:04 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

It doesn't happen often, but I agree with Ess.

The bare concept of "pointing out" the evil ways of a political opponent is, at best, misplaced. It's a more snide version of tattling in order to make one's self look better and if anyone even remotely believes the message is delivered with an unbiased perspective they are seriously deluded. Context is key to understanding and something you can rarely find in a 30 second sound bite.
Mistletoe Angel
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7 posted 10-27-2006 06:13 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I concur that this is one of the most filthiest pieces of garbage ever aired in a political campaign.

Of course, in all recent elections, a maority of what you see are attack ads traded back and forth between both our political parties, many of which are themselves disgusting and designed for nothing more than character assassination rather than having an honest, positive assessment and healthy discussion of the issues and questioning ones opponent in where we can do better.

Paul Nelson does nothing regarding the latter in this ad, and rather decides to dedicate over a minute of air time landing as many punches below the belt as possible. And WHY is Nelson doing this; because he is desperate, because he KNOWS he's behind in the polls, and when you appear unelectable to the public, some know Halloween tactics are all they have left to experiment with.

*

My God, there are so many attack ads this mid-term season I can point to that share this sort of mad desperation:

*

1) The Raw Story: Maryland National Black Republican Association Radio Ad

Beginning in mid-September, The National Black Republican Association aired a radio ad in Maryland, claiming that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was a Republican, and that Democrats were responsible for starting the Ku Klux Klan and opposed all civil rights legislation from the 1860's to the 1960's.

To some extent some claims are actually historically accurate, but what's also clear is that the GOP and Democratic Party of today are little like the parties of yesteryears, thus this radio ad appears to suggest the Democratic Party today is just like the Democratic Party of the 1860's and still succumbs to the same exact prejudices of yesteryears.

*

2) YouTube: Republican National Committee Ad: October 21, 2006

A Republican National Committee ad released last week features still-images of Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri, quotes from each of these head terror figures, while a clock ticks in the background. It concludes climatically with a massive nuclear explosion, followed by the words, "These are the stakes,", hauntingly hearkening back to the scare-tactic "Daisy" ad Democrat Lyndon B. Johnson's campaign aired in his re-election campaign.

Though the ad is not directly an attack ad, it obviously insinuates that should the Democratic Party take a majority in either the House or Senate, they will appease the terrorists of bin Laden and Zawahiri and allow such catastrophic attacks to happen.

*

3) Republican National Committee Ad: Phone Ad: October 20, 2006

This ad, defended by the GOP commitee, New York Republican incumbent Tom Reynolds, attacks Democratic challenger Michael Arcuri for his aides call in 2004 to a phone sex line, though even the records show the call at 800-457-8462 — a sex line —lasted only seconds, and was followed less than a minute later by a call to 518-457-8462, the state Department of Criminal Justice Services;a number ending with the exact same seven digits.

Reynolds himself has denounced the ad as "way over the line."  

*

4) Republican National Committee Ad: Ford's Not Right

This Mehlman-endorsed ad, which the Republican candidate for Tennessee's open Senate seat left by retiring Bill Frist, Bob Corker, himself has denounced as over the top, accuses Democratic opponent Harold Ford Jr. of insinuating he supports terrorists, has taken money from pornographers, and even suggests he has engaged in interracial sex with Playboy bunnies.

*

I think, inevitably, any dominating majority party that KNOWS that public opinion is turning agsinst them, like the Democratic Party knew in 1994 and the Republican Party knows now, are going to resort to these sorts of character assassination tactics because they know their own records are sour. But this is just ridiculous.

It's not to say that the Democrats are not resorting to these crude attack ad tactics as well; they unquestionably are by trying to connect Bush to every Republican candidate as their case for not re-electing GOP incumbents, raher than explain how Democrats are going to make changes for the better for this nation. But it's especially the GOP adopting this tactic this election season, like it was especially the Democrats in 1994.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Midnitesun
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8 posted 10-27-2006 06:53 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

well, it's just another gross attempt to divert people from the real issues at hand.
Sorry, but I cannot agree with you that this one is 'the best'...it makes me want to puke, not laugh, and I am not inclined to vote for anyone who puts out such trash(.)
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9 posted 10-28-2006 12:00 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Nice,Noah, but I seem to miss any Democratic examples except for your small disclaimer at the end. By condemning bias, you are unfortunately displaying your own here.

Mistletoe Angel
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10 posted 10-28-2006 12:23 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Michael, as I'm sure we both recall, in both your thread "Time to beat the Bush........again", as well as at least several other archived threads, I explicitly stated my opinion that though I believe you are biased in your opinions, I acknowledged virtually all people, because they hold true to their beliefs, all have biased thoughts. Here's an exact quotation from comment #35 in that thread I stated:

*

"But I do believe that his views tend to be slanted. Of course I believe a vast majority of individuals, including reasonably all of us here, have slanted vews, so that's nothing to be ashamed of, and room for improvement and growth comes in learning to be more flexible and independent-minded in conversations than others, which I try doing by alternating recently in starting posts that criticize something on one side followed by something on the other side, back and forth."

*

Indeed, though I acknowledged that both political parties engage in these dirty attack ad schemes, in terms of recent examples I revealed only GOP examples, and acknowledge the bias there.

Nonetheless, I stand by my view that the GOP has been engaging in these attack ad schemes much more than the Democrats this particular election cycle, and I didn't even previously mention the latest ads the RNC has been running against Webb regarding sexually suggestive passages in books he wrote almost 30 years ago; passages from books that were widely acclaimed from all kinds of personalities including John McCain.

*

*

By the way, it's funny that you bring up Michael J. Fox, because if you may or may not recall, in 2004 Fox was featured in a political ad supporting Republican Arlen Specter's re-election campaign on the same issue he is supporting Claire McCaskill's campaign on; stem cell research, which the Specter ad was featured on MSNBC yesterday.

Also, according to Newsmeat.com, Fox contributed $2,000 to Citizens For Arlen Specter for his re-election primary on May 13, 2003, revealing that though he generally has a preference for Democratic candidates, he is willing to endorse and contribute to Republican candidates who share a great dedication to embryonic stem cell research.

Rush Limbaugh on Michael J. Fox: Live Radio Program Video

Finally, I'm not sure if you have actually seen the edition of radio personality Rush Limbaugh's criticism toward Michael J. Fox's recent ad for McCaskill, but this is that kind of thing where when you see what happens it makes Limbaugh appear all the more offensive and low in his behavior.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

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11 posted 10-28-2006 12:48 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Noah, you went through the internet to find and display examples of Republican ads you found to be offensive and yet you obviously did not do the same for Democratic ones that are equally as available. You only state that you are sure there are more republican ones than Democratiic ones. How in the world you can say that with the thousands of ads flying through fifty states is beyond me but you are not looking for any truth....you are looking for examples of what you want to see represented....as you have done. Actually , up to this point I had not considered you as being overly biased but this clearly shows you are.Hey, many of us are but please don't pretend you are speaking from the side of fairness because it is obvious you are not.

The Michael J. Fox ad is little different that Kerry claiming that,if it weren't for Bush, Christopher Reeve would be up and walking. They rely on the average person's lack of knowledge in these fields to know any different and they shoot for the dramatics....but, of course, nothing like that is sleazy because it's the Democrats doing it, right?

As far a Limbaugh's comments on Michael J. Fox, well, it's there for you to see. Seen Michael J. on his  tv guest appearances on Boston Legal or at news conferences, including the one shown on your example where he was speaking to newsmen? If you have you would not see one tenth of the shaking and gyrations his body is going through in that ad? Why is that, Noah? This wonderful party which you claim is not yours but you always go out of your way to support used Michael J. Fox like a puppet for that ad. They had him intentionally look as pathetic as possible to go for the sympathy nerve.....what a great group of guys.
Mistletoe Angel
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12 posted 10-28-2006 01:28 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Anyone who believes in something strongly is going to have biased thoughts, Michael, and I am certainly not suggesting I am the spokesman of fairness; I acknowledged that everyone here, including myself, come attached with biases, and it is a fact I'm not denying.

Having said that, I find it laughable that you make statements along the line of "This wonderful party which you claim is not yours but you always go out of your way to support." when in fact 1) I'm a registered Independent, 2) I already completed and mailed my mail-in ballot and voted far from a straight Democratic ticket, including voting Joe Keating of the Pacific Green Party for Governor and a couple Libertarian candidates for State House seats. In fact, I only voted for one Democrat this election cycle by the name of Earl Blumenauer for his re-election to Oregon's 3rd Congressional District, largey because of his devotion to the Darfur issue, and 3) I don't want them to take the House 10 days from today because they are arguably the marginally cleaner party at the moment, but because I believe in any case when a majority party dominates the nation, it can be dangerous to a democracy, especially if the party abuses their power as the GOP is currently and the Democrats did leading up to 1994, and I want to see a balance in power restored, even while I expect little progress to be made following this January.

How can you know for sure that Michael J. Fox hasn't truly had dyskinesia recently? Can't you accept the real possibility that, given he has been diagnosed with Parkinson's disease as far back as 1991 that within the last fifteen years he has taken many medications and thus his body has increasingly underwent certain side effects and such?

Beyond the discussion of his trembling itself and whether it was natural or deliberate, I felt that ad was a rather positive one that didn't degrade anyone's character, certainly not McCaskill's challenger Jim Talent, and all in all I believe the ad was designed to facillitate national dialogue on the issue of embryonic stem cell research and the importance of it in curing cases like Fox's, and ultimately there's little to compare and much more to contrast between Fox's peaceful ad and the specific brimstone-channeled ads I mentioned financed by Ken Mehlman.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Ron
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13 posted 10-28-2006 01:58 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
This wonderful party which you claim is not yours but you always go out of your way to support used Michael J. Fox like a puppet for that ad. They had him intentionally look as pathetic as possible to go for the sympathy nerve.....what a great group of guys.

I think you give Fox too little credit, Michael. He's far smarter than most politicians, and I'm sure he knew exactly what he was doing. Look at the pattern and consistency and I'd be willing to bet it was Fox's idea.

And while I'm sure it was intentional, I'm equally sure it wasn't an act. Fox probably didn't take the medications that help mask the symptoms you describe as pathetic. That's the way people with Parkinson's disease are when they either can't afford or, because of individual chemistry, don't respond to levodopa. It's just a hint of the way Fox will eventually be 24/7 as the disease continues to progress.

Sympathy nerve? He sure as hell hit mine, Mike.
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14 posted 10-28-2006 03:14 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ron, I agree that the misfortune of Michael J. Fox hits my sympathy nerve, also. I remember watching him in Back to the Future and the scene at the hop where he does the guitar piece playing Johnny B. Good. To see a man with so much incredible ability be struck down by such a cruel disease MUST invoke  sympathy for the gentleman.

That is not the question here,  however. The question is....is the ad honest? or is it a deliberate attempt at deception to benefit the Democratic party?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20061025/cm_rcp/the_unconscionable_claims_of _m

"Instead of focusing on Rush Limbaugh, which the media loves to do, it should be focusing on a very important question: Is the commercial that Michael J. Fox cut … honest? Is it dishonest? Is it misleading? But instead of asking those questions, the reason the media won't is because Michael J. Fox is a sympathetic victim. And when you have a sympathetic victim, whether it's Michael J. Fox or a less sympathetic victim, like Cindy Sheehan, who lost her son in Iraq, or the Jersey Girls who campaigned for John Kerry's run for the White House, but they lost their husbands on 9/11. Bringing out victims doesn't encourage debate. It stifles debate…. If Rush Limbaugh had cut a commercial saying, 'I'm deaf, I can't hear and … I think we need more federal funds to research deaf problems and maybe we should take it away from welfare or maybe AIDS or something,' do you think the same media would show Rush Limbaugh the same compassion that they are showing Michael J. Fox? The answer is obviously no. And there's a reason for it. Because Rush Limbaugh is conservative and liberalism affects everything we do."

So...is Michael J. Fox  and the democrats behind the ad being honest? What IS the connection with Parkinson's  disease and stem cell research?

National Institute of Health:

    Parkinson's disease (PD) is a very common neurodegenerative disorder that affects more than 2 percent of the population over 65 years of age. PD is caused by a progressive degeneration and loss of dopamine (DA)-producing neurons, which leads to tremor, rigidity, and hypokinesia (abnormally decreased mobility). It is thought that PD may be the first disease to be amenable to treatment using stem cell transplantation. Factors that support this notion include the knowledge of the specific cell type (DA neurons) needed to relieve the symptoms of the disease. In addition, several laboratories have been successful in developing methods to induce embryonic stem cells to differentiate into cells with many of the functions of DA neurons.

    In a recent study, scientists directed mouse embryonic stem cells to differentiate into DA neurons by introducing the gene Nurr1. When transplanted into the brains of a rat model of PD, these stem cell-derived DA neurons reinnervated the brains of the rat Parkinson model, released dopamine and improved motor function.

    Regarding human stem-cell therapy, scientists are developing a number of strategies for producing dopamine neurons from human stem cells in the laboratory for transplantation into humans with Parkinson's disease. The successful generation of an unlimited supply of dopamine neurons could make neurotransplantation widely available for Parkinson's patients at some point in the future.


So...is the ad being accurate or not?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20061025/cm_rcp/the_unconscionable_claims_of _m


The popular and appealing actor Michael J. Fox has taken to the airwaves in Senate battleground states Missouri, Maryland, and New Jersey with a highly misleading ad urging defeat of Republican Senatorial candidates opposing the use of taxpayer dollars to fund new embryonic stem cell line research. He states,

    "Stem cell research offers hope to millions of Americans with diseases like diabetes, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.... But
    George Bush and Michael Steele would put limits on the most promising stem cell research."

Mr. Fox and his ads' sponsors are guilty of conflating embryonic stem cell research, which the GOP candidates and many Americans oppose for destroying a human life in the name of curing other people's diseases, with stem cell research in general, which includes adult stem cell research and umbilical cord blood stem cell research.

The only limits in question are on federal funding of new embryonic stem cell lines, requiring the sacrifice of new embryos. Private and state-funded research (California voters are spending six billion dollars borrowing money to fund this) is ongoing. The implicit claim that research based on new embryos is "the most promising" is absurd, completely unsupported by the scientific literature, and an insult to voters, based as it is on the assumption that they are incapable of understanding the issue. Too stupid to tell the difference, is the elitist assumption underlying this campaign.

Flim-flam is a charitable description. Why would federally-funded research be more promising than state- and privately-funded research? And on what possible basis can the claim be made that embryonic stem cell research is more promising than adult stem cell research?

The plain fact is that embryonic stem cell research is proving to be a bust. There are currently 72 therapies showing human benefits using adult stem cells and zero using embryonic stem cells. Scientifically-minded readers can review this medical journal article on the status of adult stem cell research. Adult stem cell therapies are already being advertised and promoted while no such treatments are even remotely in prospect for embryonic stem cell research.

America is the most formidable medical research center in the world, but it is far from alone in pursuing the potential of adult stem cells. The worldwide effort is impressive and growing. For non-adult stem cell research, a morally unquestionable alternative source exists: stem cells drawn from umbilical cord blood. Already a bank exists in Dubai collecting cord blood stem cells.

In short, the claims made in the Michael J. Fox political ads are false and reprehensible, an insult to the voters of Maryland, Missouri and New Jersey, and to all Americans.


The sympathy we may feel for Michael J. Fox does not excuse using his disability and disease for political gain through misrepresentation and lies. Why would MJF allow this to be done? Hollywood has always been a liberal bastion with multi-millionaire actors, producers and directors. They side themselves with the  party of the "common man" against the party that is said to "favor the rich". Gee, that makes sense, right? Want a little eye-opener about how liberal Hollywood is and has been for the past 40 years?
http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/
I repeat....for the Democrats to take an unfortunate person like MJF, manipulate his appearance and medications to make him look as pathetic as possible, and then make claims that are completely untrue, all for the purpose of political gain......is despicable.
Ron
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15 posted 10-28-2006 04:24 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
The sympathy we may feel for Michael J. Fox does not excuse using his disability and disease for political gain through misrepresentation and lies.

That's two separate issues, Mike.

1. Using his disability and disease for political gain. Were the political gain unrelated to the disability and disease, I might agree. In this case, of course, there's a direct correlation between the two. "THIS is what we're trying to prevent," in my opinion, is a wholly appropriate statement to make.

2. Through misrepresentation and lies. I agree completely, but would argue there was neither misrepresentation nor lies.

Certainly, the symptoms of Parkinson's weren't exaggerated or misrepresented in any way. If anything, the demonstration was middle-of-the-road as tens of thousands of people with far more severe symptoms could attest, just as there are many with less severe symptoms. I don't think people on either end of the spectrum look pathetic.

I don't agree with Fox's stand on Federally funded stem cell research, but then, I also don't agree with our government's stand on restricting stem cell research either. I wouldn't characterize either stand as a lie, though. We all have opinions and no one can accurately predict the results of scientific research. Fox may be wrong, but he certainly has no reason to lie and every reason to tell the truth as he sees it. He only wants results.

And please, Mike, save the partisan kvetching for someone who cares. Whether I'm listening to Michael J. Fox or Rush Limbaugh, I'm going to judge their words based on their personal integrity and ability to persuade, not on their supposed affixations with Hollywood, the mega-wealthy, Liberals or Democrats. I don't care what their Zodiac sign is either. It's baggage I have no intention of carrying just because someone hands it to me.


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16 posted 10-28-2006 05:17 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

As far as no misrepresentation or lies are concerned, Ron, I refer to the fact that there are two types of stem cell research, the embryonic and the adult. I'm certainly no expert on the subject but from my understanding the research Bush is against is not the research that would conceiveably cure Parkinson's. Actually, it is a known fact that Bush has allocated more funds to stem cell research than any other President.

As far as you not  being affected by the ads based on movie stars making them, I have no doubt you wouldn't be but, for every you, there are hundreds who would and are. The ads are for them, not you.
Mistletoe Angel
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17 posted 10-28-2006 05:20 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

We can have an honest, healthy and thorough discussion about this particular stem cell research ad, in arguing whether Michael J. Fox has genuinely been in a state of dyskinesia or not, which I would highly encourage, and I believe ultimately though few minds would ever be changed in the end, for good measure concerns such as this are good to talk about.

NBC10.com: October 27, 2006

Anyhow, I believe beyond the issue of how truthful or deliberate his trembling was in the minds of the general public, most have recognized this ad as a harmless, well-intended statement, where a couple new polls I've seen reflect a strong majority of Americans finding these ads either "extremely believable" or "believable.", including 93 percent of Democrats, 78 percent of Independents and 57 percent of Republicans.

What I am explictly pointing out here is that the GOP also exploits not only individuals, but events in our nation's history, for political gain as well, as is especially made clear in the second campaign ad example I pointed out in my initial post regarding that The stakes are high!" and only voting Republican will keep the nation from being attacked by Osama bin Laden and Zawahiri again, when the facts are, no matter how much the likes of Mehlman and Rove and Cheney try to re-write history, we were all united under one belief that we must go after those directly responsible for attacking us on 9/11, and as evident in the votes in both the House of Representatives and the Senate, we offered the President authorization to go after those directly responsible for 9/11, as well as heading into Afghanistan to deal with the Taliban who have a history of providing shelter and cover to al-Qaeda.

That latest ad epitomizes how shameless the Republican National Committee's current leadership and management are in exploiting this day felt by all Americans like Lyndon B. Johnson exploited another tragedy in 1964 with his "Daisy" ad, all for the purpose of maintaining their majorities ten days from today, deceptively declaring themselves the sole party that takes heart on the issue of the war on terror.

I'm not quite sure how you've reacted to that particular ad, but I do believe it is telling that in the thread "Time to beat the Bush......again" you admitted a couple things; 1) that you have become a "strong anti-Democrat" and 2) the only reason why the GOP resorts to political attack ad tactics "comes as a RESPONSE to Democratic attacks."

Those two quotations are what, without a doubt in my mind, believe that you are no less biased than any of the rest of us here. It's certainly not a bad thing to be biased and such, as I still respect and enjoy talking with you and everyone here; I'm just suggesting that the best way in dealing with this truth is to make an increasing effort to become more flexibly-minded in discussions, and given that I have seen no starting posts from you that are ever critical of the current dominating majority party and your critiques of it are seldom and briefly internalized in particular threads, I feel as though sometimes your opinions emulate talking points from radio personalities and such, especially given how many fathers, mothers and leading influential figures of the conservative movement, including William Buckley, George Will, Richard Viguerie, John McIntyre and Peggy Noonan have all found the courage to disagree and criticize the leadership of their party, from the big-spending to the deficits and debt to the intrusion of big government on civil liberties.

The bottom line is, I believe both parties have failed leadership that succumbs to elite interests above the middle class and working American families. I have criticized Nancy Pelosi not because she's from San Francisco, but because she appears so insincere and artificial when she claims she's going to "drain the swamp" and such. I look back on her record and see that her team has never filed an ethics complaint for instance, and that strikes me that she'll only go after corruption if it's GOP corruption, which really makes her no better than Dennis Hastert, who is a joke of a House Speaker as it is.

For the record, I'm NOT an "anti-Republican", as I believe there's still hope in the party in that it can find its roots again and return to the traditional, organic conservative values of state rights, small government and fiscal responsibility again, and though I may still disagree with them on issues like banning gay marriage, I would still greatly respect the for their principles.

What I'm against in the GOP are the elite, neoconservative influences that have hijacked the party, which have literally intimidated the more moderate members of the party and have placed the influences of corporations and fundamentalist religious socialists over the hard-working American family and the middle class.

I believe the GOP has strayed far from its roots, under the influences of DeLay, Boehner, Frist, Rove, Robertson and others, and though I have an unfavorable view of the party's current setting, my heart is open to honor candidates who stand by their principles of tradition and roots in the party.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
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18 posted 10-30-2006 03:23 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Not that I'm an expert on the subject of stem-cell research either, but:

'In addition, several laboratories have been successful in developing methods to induce embryonic stem cells to differentiate into cells with many of the functions of DA neurons.'

'The plain fact is that embryonic stem cell research is proving to be a bust. There are currently 72 therapies showing human benefits using adult stem cells and zero using embryonic stem cells.'

Huh? I'm confused here.

from http://www.religioustolerance.org/res_stem12.htm

"Researchers began using adult stem cells from bone marrow back in 1960. It was only in 1998 that other researchers were able to isolate and cultivate embryo stem cells. Adult stem cell research thus has an almost four decade head start compared to embryo-derived stem cells. As of 2004-Fall, promising trials are underway using adult stem cells, while stem cells from embryos are still being experimented upon in the laboratory."

My understanding is that both types of research offer benefits. Adult stem cells are not able to differentiate as fully as embryonic cells- meaning embryonic cells can become a greater variety of different cell types. While embryonic stem cells have more versatility, they may be more prone to becoming cancerous. Plus, the obvious ethical issues.

But- I don't really feel like getting too deep into the stem-cell debate. I simply feel that if a) fertility clinics have unused embryos (or zygotes) which will eventually meet a demise anyway, why not let them go to some good? and b) if I can abort an embryo or even a fetus for whatever reason I choose under current law, why can't science do so, for research which will help people? It's a no-brainer for me.

Like Ron, I ultimately see no point raking Fox over the coals- did he withold meds? Were his doses upped for other appearences in order to minimize the dyskinesia for a TV appearance- and then tapered back down? The point is he's representative- of people both better and worse off than him. And I also don't think he's some hapless victim of the Democrats, who gave a good evil Bwa-hah-ha laugh after filming. Parkinson's doesn't make you naive, last time I checked.

And just as a side note- you know why I wouldn't feel in the least bit sorry if Rush Limbaugh became disabled? It's because he's a jerk. I'd feel bad for Bush, even though I don't particularly like him, and you know why? Because he doesn't publicly mock people with illnesses.
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19 posted 10-30-2006 09:02 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

LOL! Well, hush, you must be wishing disability on one heck of a lot of people then, if being a jerk is enough to warrant it....interesting philosophy.
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20 posted 10-30-2006 09:29 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I think you twisted Amy's words, Mike. Not feeling sorry for someone isn't quite the same thing as wishing a disability upon them.

Personally, I would probably still sympathize some with Limbaugh were he to be diagnosed with Parkinson's, but my sympathy would also be offset by a sense of cosmic justice.
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21 posted 10-30-2006 11:24 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ok, I'll accept that, Ron, and apologize  to Amy. I think there  is a fine line there but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.

Your statement, though, I would take issue with. To my knowledge Rush criticized the manner in which Fox presented the commercial, by either willingly or being talked into laying off the medication to make it as dramatic as possible. He certainly never laughed at Michael  J. for  having Parkinson's and your cosmic justice would not bejust.
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22 posted 10-30-2006 01:11 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Judging by your previous comments, you also take issue not only with your belief that Michael J. Fox acted, but simply because he ran ads on the issue of stem cell research that happen to be favorable toward Democratic candidates.

To touch further on that, on June 14, 2004, Rush Limbaugh accused Democrats of trying to "capitalize on" Nancy Reagan's "suffering and pain" on his program. Here's the transcripted excerpt of that edition:

*

"The way I put this is I don't think that Ronald Reagan would ever agree to embryos, human beings, being used as spare parts. Which is what we're talking about here.

But unfortunately, it's not about Reagan, it's about Nancy. And -- and what the Democrats are trying to do is capitalize on her suffering and pain. Alzheimer's is a charity that she has, obviously, associated herself with. And the Liberals are simply trying to do -- take the occasion of Reagan's death, and -- Alzheimer's, to put another chink in the armor of the -- of the pro-life crowd, by saying, "Well, look. Even Nancy Reagan realizes the reality here. We got to do this. And she looked at her husband and who her husband was and forth."


*

USA Today: June 8, 2004

Of course, 1) Reagan's death inspired bi-partisan support for expanding stem cell research, where 58 senators, including 14 Republicans, on the day before his death signed a letter to President George W. Bush urging him to expand stem cell research.

In addition, on April 28, 2004, 206 members of the U.S. House of Representatives, including 36 Republicans that included "antiabortion stalwart Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.)" signed a similar letter to President Bush.

And 2) as previously touched on, Fox is also open to endorsing such Republican candidates who share his understanding of the issue, as he did for Pennsylvania Republican Arlen Specter in 2004.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
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23 posted 10-30-2006 03:40 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Interesting link, Noah. Here are two parts that stand out the most to me:

(1) But living human embryos are destroyed to produce stem cells.

(2) But McClellan said Tuesday that "for the first time, the government is exploring the promise of stem-cell research. But (Bush) believes that we don't have to cross a certain moral threshold" to do so. "He does believe that we should not create life for the sole purpose of destroying it."


If you recall, way wayback when, we were discussing Bush and I mentioned a few things to Aenimal that I disagreed with Bush on. Stem cell research was one of them and I still support it, as long as it doesn't  negate point #2 listed above. Bush does not want life created to kill it for its  stem cells. Is that such a ridiculous position to take? If there is any other way than that, it has my support.

That is not the point of my involvement in this thread, however. It's about how Michael J. Fox and his illness is being used and portrayed in  this ad in a political manuever. I know I shouldn't be surprised after Cindy Sheehan but they always seem to find a way to reach new lows. I'm waiting for the ad  which shows pictures of a California family of four  slaughtered in their home with  a caption underrneath which reads " With Bush  not getting tough enough on closing our borders, this could  be a common sight in the future!"

Wouldn't surprise me a bit.......
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24 posted 10-30-2006 06:15 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

wouldn't surprise me either, Mike... no more than it would have to see it or something analogous while Clinton was still president.

don' matter who be in office, democrat, republican, black, white, male, female... someone is going to be doing some bashing and blaming... it's part of the job and the price of a bright spotlight, eh?
 
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