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You're it!!!...so sue me

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Ron
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25 posted 10-22-2006 08:21 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
The only thing I see that is new is that people have lost faith in those who are supposed to lead, and figure, why not take advantage of the only opportunity that I might have -- even if it isn't fully legitimate -- might this be viewed as a way to cut into a stacked deck?

When has business in this country, especially big business, ever willingly been responsible to anything except market forces, Reb? No, I don't think people have lost faith in business leaders so much as they've lost faith in themselves. Indeed, I suspect that is even epitomized by your own choice of wording. Only opportunity? Stacked deck?

quote:
There were medical bills. Why shouldn't I, my parents, and the school have been sued?

I think the real question, Reb, is why should anyone have to be sued? Why can't everyone involved (including the kid's parents, even if they probably won't feel their kid being in the wrong place at the wrong time was his fault) pay their share just because it IS their share?

Everyone, I think, wants to blame everyone else for "things," instead of shouldering their own responsibilities. Reb, you talk later about school being mandatory, about $3,000 glass windows, and about getting out of bed in the morning, and I think in each of those instances you're ignoring where the responsibilities are assumed.

Sure, school is mandatory, but having kids isn't. People who can afford expensive windows have to choose where they're going to put them and how they're going to protect them. And the people injured didn't just get out of bed in the morning, they also crawled behind the wheel of a car and took it out on a road. I'm not suggesting any of these people are at fault. I'm just saying they aren't faultless. They made choices, too, just like those they are trying to blame for the consequences.


Balladeer
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26 posted 10-22-2006 08:54 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ahh, so you want the lawyers to decide the cases now, Mike?

Lawyers always decide cases,Ron. They decide which cases they will take. If they don't think a case is winnable they don't waste their time - and if they don't think it's winnable the odds are that it's not. Lawyers are probably the bet litmus paper validity of lawsuits has. They don't like to leave food on the table.

   quote:Your comparisons make as much sense as Ron's, telling me how lawyer's trying to induce lawsuits are the same as Tony trying to get you to buy his Frosted Flakes.


I'd love to hear you explain the difference, Mike.


Simple. Tony ever try to sell you Frosted Flakes through tv ads when you were a kid? Me, too. Lawyers ever try to get you to file lawsuits through tv ads when you were a kid? Me, neither.  Also, one is a product. One is trying to create a product.  

I don't think anyone would argue that frivolous lawsuits should be allowed, Mike. That's why judges dismiss them every day.

Are they dismissed before or after the defendants are forced to use legal representation and lose time from work to be there?

Could the erosion of loyalty from employers to employees be a part of this?  defaulting on pension plans, downsizing, defrauding Wall Street, political graft and the lobby culture, religious leaders fleecing the flock to finance lavish lifestyles, manufacturers who are all too willing to withhold safe technologies from the market (like seat belts) and intentionally market harmful products (like cigarettes), aren't these all representative of being willing to elevate easy money above integrity?

No.
Local Rebel
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27 posted 10-22-2006 09:01 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

What exactly was his responsibility Ron (meaning the bleachered kid).  Football player -- me -- him.. not -- the only reason he was in the wrong place was because I made it the wrong place -- I ran full force into the kid and cracked his skull.. sure... I was 13... I made a bad decision in a moment.  But, don't we expect kids to have poor judgment?  That is, after all, why they wouldn't give me a driver's license at 13.

Yep, I'm responsible,  my parents were responsible -- but -- didn't the school put me behind the wheel?

Here's a great way to avoid a lot of medical lawsuits in such instances though -- Universal no fault health coverage.  That only leaves the matter of punitive damages to the courts and the litigants.

And, I'm in complete agreement that people have lost faith in themselves.  Isn't that what leaders are supposed to do though?  Give people faith in themselves?  Doesn't the guy who gave his 25 years to the steel mill only see it default on its pension fund and wind up getting paid only pennies from the Federal insurance have a right to be disheartened?  With leaders like Welch, Lay, Delay, Bush, Rumsfeld from whence cometh that enterprising spirit?

People are told if they build a better mousetrap -- if they work hard play by the rules -- everything comes to them in the end -- but it doesn't.  People rarely get what they deserve and when somebody who gets more than they deserve harm others -- is it any wonder people are willing to go after them for even small things?

That guy, who lost his pension, may see his only opportunity left in his waning years to be that propane truck that rear-ended him at a red light.  Maybe then he can get back what should have been rightfully his -- even if he's getting it from somebody other than the ones who took it from him.  Even if his neck doesn't really hurt all that bad.  Even if his car did have a collapsed lifter and needed a ring job.  He sees leaders who take whatever they can get from wherever they can get it with impunity -- and figures -- hey... where's mine?  I'm not advocating it Ron.  I'm just trying to explain where it comes from.  If the captains of industry have no personal integrity, if the civilian political leaders have no integrity, if the spiritual leaders have no integrity, then from where does it come?

The only way to get integrity back is justice.  If the integrity is to come from us, the ordinary parents -- the ordinary consumer, the ordinary citizen -- our only place to seek that integrity is the court.  Who is supposed to pay for the broken window?
Local Rebel
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28 posted 10-22-2006 09:16 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

oh yeah... Mike.. I threw Bush in there just for you
Ron
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29 posted 10-22-2006 09:24 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Lawyers always decide cases,Ron. They decide which cases they will take. If they don't think a case is winnable they don't waste their time - and if they don't think it's winnable the odds are that it's not. Lawyers are probably the bet litmus paper validity of lawsuits has. They don't like to leave food on the table.

Were that true, Mike, no one guilty of murder could ever get a fair trial.

Of course, what you're really talking about are lawyers that operate on a contingency fee, and they're just a small part of a much larger pool. If all lawyers only got paid for winning cases, rather than trying cases, our whole legal system would fall apart.

No, Mike, lawyers don't decide cases. They just decide whether they are likely to be paid. Walk into a lawyer's office with a $50,000 retainer and you, too, can have your day in court, irregardless of merit. Unfortunately, I think what you're advocating would result in ONLY the people with $50,000 to gamble being assured their day in court.

quote:
Simple. Tony ever try to sell you Frosted Flakes through tv ads when you were a kid? Me, too. Lawyers ever try to get you to file lawsuits through tv ads when you were a kid? Me, neither.

I'm not sure what your point is, Mike? Are you lamenting that the American Bar Association is less strict today than when you and I were kids? I'm sure your aware, after all, that the Bar is what regulates where and how much lawyers can advertise. What you're not telling us is why you think lawyers should be held to a higher standard than someone who feeds our kids?

quote:
Also, one is a product. One is trying to create a product.

Nope. One is a product. One is a service. And, yes, that's a difference that is going to affect marketing, but it's a small difference. A much bigger difference is that one is national and one is generally local, and THAT is much more likely to determine which will be able to afford the most television time.

quote:
Are they dismissed before or after the defendants are forced to use legal representation and lose tiem from work to be there?

I'm not a lawyer, but personal experience suggests it's after a lawyer is hired but usually before anyone has to appear in court.

But what's the alternative, Mike. Do you personally want to decide which cases should be dismissed? If not you, and not the judges, then whom?


Balladeer
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30 posted 10-22-2006 10:01 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Isn't that what leaders are supposed to do though?  Give people faith in themselves?

Ok,l then, leaders have not given people faith in themselves....and,amazingly, it's only been in the past six years! Because Sam Truck Driver doesn't have faith in himself anymore- Bush did it! Talk about a stretch........

Gee,I wonder where you were in the nineties? Had you been  around you could have said, "Isn't that what leaders are supposed to do? Set standards in morality and serve as good  examples of how men, husbands, fathers, and  business and world leaders are supposed to act? Shouldn't they be someone kids should look up to along with adults? Instead we had a man who showed that morality took a back seat to profit. A man who caused decent people to say, "So what if he's a liar and an adulterer? The economy is good!!!" We had a leader who looked at  the American people in the eye through the tv screen and lied through his teeth and then lied to congress and we said, 'oh, well, it was a personal matter....no big deal."

Where was your finger-pointing and words of condemnation then? LOL! You have the cojones to refer to current Republicans as core reasons why people have a lack of faith after eight years of a man  who displayed that trust, honor, loyalty, honesty and dignity were disposable items and that the bottom line was all that really counted in the world? You think kids and people didn't pick up on that? This topic is one  of the by-products of Slick Willie's legacy but if it makes you feel better to completely ignore the actions of a president who made a complete mockery of the office and the dignity it is supposed to represent and go after Bush instead......have a ball.
Balladeer
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31 posted 10-22-2006 10:13 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

What you're not telling us is why you think lawyers should be held to a higher standard than someone who feeds our kids?

Well, call me a non-realist, Ron, but I actually DO feel that lawyers should be held to a higher standard. They are representatives of the legal profession...a supposedly honorable institution. I also feel that policemen should be held to a higher standard for the same reason.

But what's the alternative, Mike. Do you personally want to decide which cases should be dismissed? If not you, and not the judges, then whom?


There's the question, Ron. I don't have an answer. It would be good if personal integrity were to enter into the picture but there is little hope of that when there is money to be made, it seems. Still, I DO think that when it comes to a point that kids are not even allowed to play tag at recess for fear of the  school being sued, it's gone too far and somebody needs to come up with SOME answer.
Local Rebel
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32 posted 10-22-2006 10:23 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

Gee,I wonder where you were in the nineties?



And I wonder where you were in the seventies Mike?  

The sixties?

My condemnation of Clinton and Gingrich occured elswhere because there was no here and you didn't know me.  And I have no amnesia about any of it.  But we have to have some perspective here don't we?  On the one hand we have a man who lied about sex and another man who lied about sex.  Some Congressional leaders who cashed in some stamps and kited a few checks.

On the other hand, in the sixties and seventies we had Nixon.  If Nixon had the power our current Congress just gave to Bush he could have actually been tossing all of those people on his enemies list into an undisclosed prison.

You've really missed your favorite whipping boy though Mike -- it's the press's fault.  It's Woodward and Deepthroat -- and darn if it isn't Woodward again.

If the press just hadn't told us the TRUTH we'd be up to our eyeballs in faith.  Yes.. darn that freedom of the press.
JesusChristPose
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33 posted 10-22-2006 10:52 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"And, I'm in complete agreement that people have lost faith in themselves.  Isn't that what leaders are supposed to do though?  Give people faith in themselves?"

~ Absolutely not. If a person is looking for a political leader to provide for them faith, then they missed the train to common sense, self-esteem, and self-worth.

"Doesn't the guy who gave his 25 years to the steel mill only see it default on its pension fund and wind up getting paid only pennies from the Federal insurance have a right to be disheartened?"

~ And whose fault is that? The Republicans in office today? Of course not. If I need to explain it you, then it is not worth explaining.

"With leaders like Welch, Lay, Delay, Bush, Rumsfeld from whence cometh that enterprising spirit?"

~ Maybe your biased political opinions have blinded you, completely? That is not uncommon when it comes to politics. What you are saying now could be said for any political party during any decade or "time of power."



"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

[This message has been edited by JesusChristPose (10-23-2006 01:20 PM).]

Balladeer
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34 posted 10-22-2006 11:22 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

~ Your biased political opinions have blinded you, completely. What you are saying now could be said for any political party during any decade or "time of power."


Of course, JCP....but it's so much more sporting to lay it at the Bush doorstep, apparently.

Nice side-step, reb. Just think....if Bush had displayed all of the moral deprivation Clinton did, you would have the best of both worlds and REALLY go wild.

Yes, we've had Nixon,Kennedy's women....and let's not forget Jefferson and his slaves but if you want to go back to the display of "Morals and honesty are overrated - take what you can get" philosophy of our current generation you only have to back one President....the one who, along with his loving wife, stole furniture and artifacts from the White House when he moved out in one last great display of integrity to the point where the Secret Service had to go get them and bring them back. Bush? He's a piker. Billy was the true master.
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35 posted 10-23-2006 12:21 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

It didn't start with Dunbya.  It didn't start with Billy.  It didn't even start with Carter's crazy brother or Spiro Agnew's corruption or the Gary Hart scandal.  It started when babyboomers began to realize that the only way to get ahead was to lie, cheat, steal, stab your friends in the back, do whatever it takes to win. Just don't get caught!  It started with foreign buyouts of American bedrock manufacturing corporations and foreign trade agreements and the kind of pressure that has put on management to keep stockholders happy.  It started with watching our heros assasinated.  Then watching our President resign in disgrace and another one lie about the Contra Affair.  It started with watching our savings & loans fold (along with the help of a Bush brother, I might add, who was only slapped on the hand for his part as his daddy was 'way up there' and if you think we missed that, Mike, you're wrong).  Then the man whose son steals from our savings & loans somehow manages to keep the whole thing quiet through his candidacy for president and wins....and takes up a war where masses of our military service poeple were experimented on and exposed to depleted uranian.  Billy comes in office and everyone gets their hopes up that maybe he really will be a change and what happens?  Another demoralizing moment.  And yes, Mike, I agree that was the last layer to the cake which had been baking layer by layer for as long as I can remember.  But the  icing, well that would be the current state of our nation under GWB and all that has been pointed out many times before on these threads.    

What happened to our society?  We watched the people with power win and the people with no power lose.  We equated money = power.  We related getting ahead involves who you know and not what you know and money buys friends.  I say, if we can't blame it on big business, the justice system, or politicans...let's blame it on television, Mike. (lol)  Ron really does have a point about commercials.  
Balladeer
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36 posted 10-23-2006 12:40 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Iliana, I blame it on Ozzie and Harriet. They set standards impossible to match

(for those not familiar with Ozzie and Harriet, send me  a  SASE and I'll tell you all about them)
iliana
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37 posted 10-23-2006 12:46 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Naw, Mike, I think "Dallas" is more like it.  
Alicat
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38 posted 10-23-2006 11:46 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Presidents and their Administration come and go, but politics stay long after.  Something to remember is who was in power legislatively during all that time.  Yeah, the Republicans have held the reigns for the most part for 10 years.  But who had them for the prior 40? Keep in mind that the sitting President doesn't make law, nor the sitting Governor, but the federal and state Congress who's primary goal it seems is to keep getting reelected, not serving the nation or state.
Local Rebel
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39 posted 10-24-2006 12:18 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Jo, you did a really good job so far.

There is another dimension to the conversation though that has to do with those mushroom cloud filmstrips -- anybody want to have a go at it?
iliana
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40 posted 10-24-2006 12:41 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Reb, I think you should address that.   & thanks.
Mistletoe Angel
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41 posted 10-24-2006 01:15 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



Y'all have digressed miles off topic here, LOL!



Love,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Brad
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42 posted 10-24-2006 01:31 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

So, how do you enforce a tag law?
inot2B
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43 posted 10-24-2006 02:20 PM       View Profile for inot2B   Email inot2B   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for inot2B

Why does every discussion with Balladeer always go back to POLITICS?  I'm so tired of political parties being blamed for everything.  I don't care which party one belongs to, children should be allowed to play and run, without the school being sued if one is hurt.  As long as they provide proper supervision and alert parents as soon as an accident happens then let the parent get doctor treatment or whatever needs to be provided.  If a parent finds out that an adult was not supervising their child and their child was hurt and they were not notified in a proper amount of time, then they can decided what should be done.  Either through their school superentendent or legal means if the school does not act on the complaint.

Balladeer you ask and important question, and it is up to an individual if they need to find a lawyer.  Then it is up to the courts to decide who is right or wrong.  Yes we are hurting our children out of fear of being sued, but I can't blame a political party for it.
Not A Poet
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44 posted 10-24-2006 08:51 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

quote:
Why does every discussion with Balladeer always go back to POLITICS?

Go back and actually check the thread. I think you'll find the first mention of politics (partisan, at least) was comment #12, Iliana. Then #16, Iliana again. Then #27, Local Rebel and #28 although it appears tongue-in-cheek. Balladeer first brought up the ugly P word in #30 in response. After that, the whole thread has simply degenerated to mud slinging.
iliana
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45 posted 10-24-2006 09:34 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Not a Poet, I beg to differ with you.  Mike brought politics into play in entry #11 when he started talking about penalizing plaintiffs in frivolous lawsuits, and then again when he tried to give Bush credit for tort reform in Texas in #14. My responses were directed to his questions and erroneous information.  You cannot separate law from politics, NAP.  
Local Rebel
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46 posted 10-24-2006 09:44 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Mike brought it into play in post #1 when he made this thread about lawyers and not about school children.

This thread doesn't exist in a vacuum -- but one in a long succession of discussions on the courts, juries, tort reform -- Republican issues -- and the Trial Lawyers Assosiation that trends Democratic and were big backers of Billary.

Of course, I'm always ready to give him an excuse to turn on the crocodile tears in defense of poor little GW.  

Jo... no time and just plain don't feel like it right now -- but here's some background for starters -- not great -- but interesting
http://www.policyreview.org/dec00/Arens.html
quote:

This debate receded as the 1980s progressed, the Cold War escalated and President Reagan took a more confrontational stance toward the Soviet Union. Conservatives fell in behind Reagan and began to talk about capitalism in the same way he did. Capitalism increasingly came to be framed in opposition to the Soviet Union, and the economic and political facets of our society were merged rhetorically into a triumphant whole. Our abundance was contrasted with their material deprivation, our relative economic efficiency and responsiveness with their bureaucratic maze and lumbering state industries, our freedom of expression with their stifling of dissent, our constitutional protections with Soviet citizenís helplessness before arbitrary state action. Talk of capitalismís inherent instabilities and "contradictions" receded in the face of this great duality.

The end of the Cold War can therefore justly be seen as a turning point in the debate over capitalism in more ways than one. At the same time that most of the world was conceding the economic superiority of capitalism, conservatives began again to wrestle with questions about the internal dynamics and moral legitimacy of capitalist society. The issues, of course, have changed. The boom times of the past decade have quelled most doubts about the sustainability of our economic system. The fact that we have experienced unprecedented mass consumerism alongside a flourishing entrepreneurial sector suggests that we have managed to suppress this particular contradiction rather successfully. The counterculture movement so feared by Bell and Kristol has withered away, either merging with the capitalist culture, if you buy David Brooksís argument, or being co-opted and "commodified" by it.

The success of the economic system seems assured; but now this very success is implicated by many conservatives in the creation of a culture that is increasingly, pathologically focused on getting and spending. Furthermore, it is argued, our spending is directed at the gratification of our most childish appetites, at the coarsest and least elevating forms of commercial product. To characterize this as an aesthetic complaint is not to diminish it.

Other charges against capitalism are made from a communitarian perspective. Conservatives have come to perceive that the exigencies of the market will disrupt social institutions as quickly and thoroughly as any government welfare program or ivory-tower assault on cultural norms. "Rampant" or "unfettered" capitalism is now blamed for destroying the tight-knit communities of old, as well as causing nuclear families to splinter apart. Arguments encompassing both of these elements can be found in the work of Getrude Himmelfarb, William Bennett, Robert Bork, and Alan Ehrenhalt. Perhaps the most trenchant and passionate critique of capitalism to date appeared in last winterís Public Interest. In his article "The Spirit of Capitalism, 2000," David Bosworth added to the standard denunciation of consumerism ó destroyer of maturity and endless generator of new psychic "needs" ó an attack on the ethic of "the Efficient Producer," which has bent parenting to the "grimly anxious pace of the postmodern workplace" and caused family relations to be "stripped of wonder, curiosity, and improvisational fun." Our present age, he argues, is one in which "the market expands to enclose the whole of society so that even the most intimate of activities becomes economically defined." We are caught between the dual "demands for perfect efficiency and unending appetite" and left with "an impoverished definition of human life."



Ringo
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47 posted 10-24-2006 09:54 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Plain and simple, folks...
I actually DO blame the politicians of the country, as well as the lawyers, as well as the parents, as well as myself.
We all sit around and complain that the world is shot, that the politicians are crazy and crooked, that we should let the kids play, that this is wrong, that the other is wrong... and when someone runs up and screams that we are being unfair because of one reason or another that the (mainly) liberal side of the isle champions, even though we disagree with it, we all turn a blind eye because there is nothing we can do.
The politicians do nothing, which emboldens the selfish geniuses with a severe lack of motivation to work for their living to sue a fast food restaurant for allowing them to take the lid off a blazingly hot cup of coffee and stick it between their legs while they are driving over a speed bump. Because they are given more money than they will ever make in their entire lazy, non-motivated lives, someone else gets the idea that because he got drunk and slipped in behind the wheel of his car to go get another bottle, that the liquor company is responsaible to the tune of mega-millions because he is paralyzed from driving drunk at a high rate of speed into a tree, and the home owner is responsible for mega millions more because the tree was on his own property near the road where he could hit it.
Certain politicians attempt to enact legislation limiting the availability of garbage lawsuits, and their "caring" opponants make sure everyone knows they are mean-spirited, and only want to take what the little guy is rightfully owed, and that politician falls over onto his back, rolls up into a ball, and cries, "Please, Sir, don't hurt me."
This, then, allows supposedly intelligent adults with negligible parental skills (and no desire to develop them) to see the possibility of dollar signs. They, in turn, call a lawyer because they are too lazy to work for their money and their children's future. Their children are at a schoolyard playing, and because the teachers are attempting to watch 200 kids at once, they don't stop little Johnny from running full speed into a tether ball pole while playing tag, they decide that the school is liable for more money than the kids will ever make in his life because he broke his arm.
And the country rolls itself into a ball and allows themselves to be pushed into a corner, because they refuse to allow the politicians to enact legislation to stop this. Meanwhile, someone else decides they are tired of working for their keep, and they...

Until we decide to stand up for ourselves, and our judicial system, our insurance premiums will continue to skyrocket, and we will continue to complain that a welfare mother with 14 kids is getting 100 million dollars because a teacher standing across a schoolyeard sllowed a soft, red, four-square ball to hit her kid on the backside, and caused him to skin his knees.

You may burn my flag... only after you wrap yourself in it first.
www.myspace.com/mindlesspoet

iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


48 posted 10-24-2006 10:18 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

"The success of the economic system seems assured; but now this very success is implicated by many conservatives in the creation of a culture that is increasingly, pathologically focused on getting and spending. Furthermore, it is argued, our spending is directed at the gratification of our most childish appetites, at the coarsest and least elevating forms of commercial product. To characterize this as an aesthetic complaint is not to diminish it."

Yep....there you go, Reb.  That's the part I left out.  Thanks.  
Balladeer
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since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


49 posted 10-24-2006 11:59 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

You have got to be joking, reb. I said nothing about the current government to begin this thread and your  inference that I did is about as farfetched as the majority of your replies.   Even in your final comment injecting the "crocodile tears"and the "poor little G.W. you show you can't help yourself.

Iliana, if you want to claim that my tongue-in-cheek "maybe Bush did it as governor" was a flag prompting you to start the flogging of the Bush asdminstration for the lawsuit problems, go for it. You fail to mention that my comment came after you said "In my opinion, federal tort reform is one more attempt by this administration to take power from the states". This administration...this administration...this administration. Undoubtedly, you would have found some way regardless.

Inot2b is right. Every thread about every subject somehow seems to get hijacked to become a political issue aimed at the current administration. Ron had asked me if I ever got tired of making accusations of Bush bashing. LOL! How can I when it always presents itself, regardless of the topic? I'd like to hear him ask  reb  and Iliana if they ever get tired of throwing Bush into every thread.

Yes, Pete, the problem does ultimatly lie with the federal government because, after all, they are where the buck stops. My problem is not  with that claim. My problem is that, to some, it seems to have either all began with THIS administration or  THIS administration should shoulder the blame. It's every administration in the past half-century, at least, and yet there are those here who are not satisfied unless they can find someway to lay it on Bush's doorstep out of pure personal bias.

The DOW went over 12000 from a point of 7500 after 9/11. They give Bush any acknowledgement of that? Of course not. Unemployment at a new low.....anything there? No way. But let Mr. Jones sue the school system for lack of supervision because billy Bully punched his son's nose and it's all because mr, Jones has a feeling of worthlessness because Bush policies have theratened his pension and this administration wants to take away state's rights. Enough already???

To his credit, Ron is about the only one who tried to argue (or present his views) on the actual topic without using it as a tool to make it a "current administration" issue. That was actually what this thread was supposed to be about.
 
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