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Passions in Poetry

Time to Beat the Bush.......again

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Balladeer
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25 posted 10-11-2006 06:38 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Yes, Iliana, Investor's Business Daily does attract a certain type of individuals...investors...people who have put their money as an investment of this country. Poeple who are concerned about the success of this country. People who are counting on the government to allow businesses to flourish. That's not a bad type of clientele to attract, don't you think? I would guess that 99.9%of the Democrats in Congress also read Investor's Business Daily, too, and are also involved in the stock market, wouldn't you say? It's not some right-wing rag to be read or ignored. It is a very respectable publication read by all investors of all parties. To dismiss it as garbage just because it ran an editorial not favorable to Clinton is ludicrous.

By the way, in case you hadn't noticed, the stock market set four new highs in the past week. True, you may have to search your local paper to find that but it's true. When the market hit a high under Clinton it was front page news, screaming headlines, people danicing in the street, Democrats praising Democrats to the skies, "It's the economy,stupid!"buttons showing up everywhere as their mantra to what is really important to America. Seen any Democrat say anything about the stock market lately? hehe....nope, they avoid the subject like the plague. Now they want to convince you the important thing is NOT the economy, it's a senator sending sexual e-mails to young pages, it's Bush causing North Korea to have nukes, it's blah blah blah blah blah.

Aren't politics fun?
iliana
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26 posted 10-11-2006 06:49 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Mike, you are confusing the issue...Investors.com caters to big money investors and not American citizens, per se.  Those could be investors from anywhere in the world and the stock market is not limited to American companies or companies only doing business in America.  It is a global business with global investors with capitalistic ideals, just as I said.  I have not said that there are not democrats that fit into that category; however, if you check into it, you will find that the biggest businesses and business interests in this country just happen to be aligned with the politics of G.W.  And, any successful business caters to its interest groups.

Oh, and yes...I did know about the new record highs.  And that is good for business and shareholders.  But, I think Reb addressed very adequately what is happening to American manufacturing and many American businesses.  

[This message has been edited by iliana (10-11-2006 10:49 PM).]

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27 posted 10-11-2006 07:24 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Investors.com caters to big money investors and not American citizens, per se.

It  has a subscription base of 800,000 members.


you will find that the biggest businesses and business interests in this country just happen to be aligned with the politics of G.W.

Considering the success of the market and the lowest unemployment rate in many years, that is a huge compliment to Bush. Thank you!  

iliana
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28 posted 10-11-2006 07:32 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Success for the upper class....yes....people who have money to invest.   Mike, we have been over this before.  The disparity between the upper class and lower class is growing.  Unemployment figures are questionable.  I've given you this documentation before and so has Local Rebel.  Wages have not risen with the cost of living.  The rich are truly getting richer, yes.  And, the poor are getting poorer.  The middle class is shrinking.  That is not my vision of the United States of America.  

Investors.com has 800,000 subscribers.  Well that's a pretty good number, but did you know that there are approximately 2.5 Million millionaries in the United States (counting direct assets only) according to Merrill Lynch and that number is projected to triple within the next few years. So, Investors.com has a sector of the 2.5 Million millionaries, more than likely, or at least caters to them.

The numbers on the other side of the fence meaning the poverty level have also grown at a rapid rate.  Mike, your argument that if rich people are doing good then America is doing good sounds great, but it just doesn't hold water when all is said and done.   NYTimes Week In Review


URL shortened with UBB code.

[This message has been edited by iliana (10-11-2006 10:51 PM).]

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29 posted 10-11-2006 07:57 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

well, if you don't feel that America is doing good if the rich are doing good, then imagine how America would be doing if the rich were doing badly.  

Anyway, that's all about as far away from the thread's topic that we can get.   May your visions all come true to you one day
iliana
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30 posted 10-11-2006 07:58 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Thank you, Mike.  Yours, too.  *smile*
Brad
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31 posted 10-12-2006 09:47 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

The answer to your question Mike is no, they shouldn't.

But neither should the republicans.
http://www.slate.com/id/2151354/nav/tap2/

iliana
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32 posted 10-12-2006 10:27 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Brad's right.  Nobody should be muddslinging.  Here's a really low blow from the Republicans..."at least no one died" with regard to Foley's scandal:   http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/11/shays.kennedy.ap/index.html
JesusChristPose
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33 posted 10-12-2006 10:27 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

~ It may be just me, but I hope it is not, but am I only one that can see that Mike doesn't base his beliefs on "being" on one side of the political spectrum, but he is merely showing how those who are one side of the political spectrum (liberal) are in fault due to their biases and subjectiveness in political thought?

~ Having been a poly-sci teacher at the college level, and having read many books on politics AND critical thinking... that combo has lead me to "see what I see."

~ Mike, you are kicking their behinds. And, even though I don't believe in all you believe in, I wish more people thought like you.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

iliana
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34 posted 10-12-2006 11:48 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Well, JCP, you must be a superman genius who sees through the screen because I do not see Mike coming across as unbiased.     He even outright said near the beginning of this thread that he has no respect for the democratic party and labeled himself an "anti-democrat."  If you have followed his previous threads, it is obvious he supports this administration for the most part.  I'll give you this though...he sure knows how to carry on a debate without proper documentation...he succeeds mostly on his personal writing skills and sense of wit.     Oh, and with your fine education which is so pertinent to this discussion, I'm curious as to why you have not commented anything of substance to this thread?  *smiles*  

It's an election year.  All the news rhetoric is anticipated.  So what was the point of this thread other than to point out that Democrats are picking on Bush's (or the Republican) policies again, particularly his foreign policy?  No surprise and how do you argue that?  There is no argument here really except to say that this has been going on with both parties as long as I can remember.  And what does it do to a country's morale when people start disputing the validity of a particular policy?  Well, it serves to make some people think...and maybe even look into things for themselves....and afterall, don't we want intelligent voters?  Or, would we rather have mindless masses going to the polls fed by media's dangling carrots and voting for the party who was able to get the most carrots in there (positive air time)?  When people quit arguing about foreign policy, I think I'll get worried.  As long as there is diversity of opinion in this country, then there's still hope for a better tomorrow.

[This message has been edited by iliana (10-13-2006 01:18 AM).]

Mistletoe Angel
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35 posted 10-13-2006 03:12 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

The bottom line is, I believe we all attempt to make genuine efforts to be fair and moderate in these discussions, but I do believe with belief, there will always be a sort of bias regardless.

With all due respect, I do disagree with JesusChristPose that Michael isn't biased, as when you look back on the history of threads he's started, they have a unanimous anti-Democrats streak to them, while posts critical of the Bush Administration or GOP are rare.

It certainly doesn't mean that Michael does not care and is not open to other, alternate points of view and open discussion; he is very much interested in engaging with others and speaking of the many topics and I believe certainly does not resort to belittling anyone or making you feel your opinion is worthless. Michael is a great debater, a great voice and all in all, a great person, and I do very much enjoy his friendship and speaking with him.

But I do believe that his views tend to be slanted. Of course I believe a vast majority of individuals, including reasonably all of us here, have slanted vews, so that's nothing to be ashamed of, and room for improvement and growth comes in learning to be more flexible and independent-minded in conversations than others, which I try doing by alternating recently in starting posts that criticize something on one side followed by something on the other side, back and forth.

The primary point I was making earlier was, yes, there are Democrats who certainly waste ever too much time attacking Bush rather than address ideas and alternatives for dealing with conflicts. That's a given, and that's one central reason why I am a registered Independent like Larry C, who may lean Democratic but in my first election in 2004 voted for many Green and Independent candidates. But at the same time, there are Republicans and Bush Administration officials who have done likewise, blasting the Democrats and other political opposition as being "morally and intellectually confused", forgetting the lessons of 9/11, sometimes even appeasing the terrorists, etc. And the question I asked Michael was, "Do you not agree that both sides are resorting to these mean political tactics?".

And, yes, I absolutely agree with Jo's latter thought in her latest response.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Balladeer
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36 posted 10-13-2006 10:53 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

C'mon, Brad....don't send me a link to an article entitled "The Slime Talk Express" and expect me to take it seriously. Besides, McCain's talk was a REPLY to Hillary's bashing. It was not an initial assault.
JesusChristPose
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37 posted 10-13-2006 11:22 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"Well, JCP, you must be a superman genius who sees through the screen because I do not see Mike coming across as unbiased."

~ I have never been called a "superman genius" before. I guess, as the saying goes, there is always a first time for everything.

"He even outright said near the beginning of this thread that he has no respect for the democratic party and labeled himself an "anti-democrat."  If you have followed his previous threads, it is obvious he supports this administration for the most part."

~ That doesn't make Mike biased or not. One can take a side of a political party, but call it as it truly is. Now, that doesn't mean 100% all the time, but if one is unbiased and objective in his/her thinking, one will definitely show it in an argument, such as Mike had done here.

"Oh, and with your fine education which is so pertinent to this discussion, I'm curious as to why you have not commented anything of substance to this thread?  *smiles*"

~ Now if I was sarcastic like that, Ron would have my a#%. lol  

"It's an election year.  All the news rhetoric is anticipated.  So what was the point of this thread other than to point out that Democrats are picking on Bush's (or the Republican) policies again, particularly his foreign policy?"

~ You tell me? However, for whatever reason, it doesn't make the originator of the thread biased ... maybe sick and tired of how some liberals on this site bash Bush at every chance, but show how hypocritical they can be when "the shoe is on the other foot."

~ The rest of your post trailed off in an entirely different issue.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Balladeer
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38 posted 10-13-2006 11:22 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

So what was the point of this thread other than to point out that Democrats are picking on Bush's (or the Republican) policies again, particularly his foreign policy?

I'm sorry if that's all you get out of this, Iliana. I wish it were as simple as that. This is not the normal petty bickering the Democrats like to employ. This is not the ridiculous Dubai ownership of ports complaint - by the way,have you seen the Democrats follow up on that at all? - this is not the complaint of loud music torturing Gitmo prisoners. This is not trying to scare Joe Citizen that the government is listening in on their phone calls. This is serious stuff. North Korea having nuclear weaponsis serious stuff. The United States needs to put up a united front against this. Believe it or not, there are countries out there that believe in the US and count on the US. By the Democrats immediately coming out with "It wasn't our fault! Bush did it!!" finger-pointing, our government comes across internationally as a dysfunctional family, at best. It does not help us. Unfortunately, the Democratic leadership could care less if it helps us or not. Their only concernis what helps THEM. What's bad for the country (as long as they are not in power) is good for them, in their mindset. When a situation this important comes along, we need to present ourselves in a strong, united way to handle the situation. The blame-laying can happen later. Democrats don;t want to wait for later because they have an election they want to influence coming up so they trash Bush to get some votes, uncaring about what it does to the image of the country overseas.
As long as there is diversity of opinion in this country, then there's still hope for a better tomorrow.

Fine, but this is no diversity of opinion. This is simple character assassination and it does NOT present hope for a better tomorrow.
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39 posted 10-13-2006 11:42 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Noah, I will certainly grant you that both sides have employed political tactics such as these but, as what was pointed out in Brad's example,and also in Iliana's, the republican's dialogue comes as a RESPONSE to Democratic attacks. Personally, I've always wished they had done more of it. For years Republicans have taken insults, abuse and attacks from politicians they could have blasted out of the water and they haven't done it. It's gotten to the point of infuriating at times and made them look too wishy-washy to fight back. They have a lot more reserve than I would have for sure. So if you want to chastise them for fighting back the few times they do, go ahead. I wish they would do a lot more of it.
iliana
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40 posted 10-13-2006 11:47 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

JCP, I apoligize if you took my question about your not commenting to this thread as sarcasm.  It was a genuine question and was not meant as sarcasm.  

JesusChristPose
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41 posted 10-13-2006 11:55 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

Well you should of ... when a person calls another a "superman genius" and then goes on about his educational background, it is all too easy to interpet it as pure sarcasm.

Not only that, you edited what you wrote too.

Bad combination.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

Ron
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42 posted 10-13-2006 11:56 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Mike, that argument seems to rest solely on the presumption that their conclusions are wrong. What if they were demonstrably right? If current policies were placing this country in imminent military danger, would it really make sense to remain silent until after the elections? How much should we be willing to pay for a united front?


iliana
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43 posted 10-13-2006 11:57 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

I'll give you that about how it appears Republicans fight back, Mike.  But, let me ask you if you have ever heard the old saying, "Don't get mad, get even"?  Maybe they come across as taking the high road, but they play war here in Texas and it's just as underhanded and low down as anything you accuse the other side of doing if not more so -- in fact, here in Texas, I would say it is more so.  It's just a little more sophisticated and much better financed.  

[This message has been edited by iliana (10-14-2006 01:04 AM).]

iliana
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44 posted 10-13-2006 11:59 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

JCP -- What?  I edited my comment?

If you take a look at most of my comments, they are edited.  So I proof after I post and find mistakes or think of things I want to add or think of a better way to say something....what is wrong with that?

[This message has been edited by iliana (10-14-2006 01:06 AM).]

JesusChristPose
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45 posted 10-14-2006 12:04 AM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"JCP -- What?  I edited my comment?

~ You don't know?

"If you take a look at most of my comments, they are edited?"

~ You are telling me?

"So I proof after I post and find mistakes....what is wrong with that?"

~ Editing automatically means that one is editing for the sole purpose of "mistakes?"

... I'll answer that for you, no.

~ Seriously, if you can't reply back to what I said to you in "full compass," then you are definitely giving American liberals a bad name. No wonder Mike is kicking butt.

~ In other words, your editing was only one of the points I made in regards to your remarks being sarcastic, yet you only focused on the editing.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

iliana
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46 posted 10-14-2006 12:06 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

I'm sorry, JCP, but you have me completely baffled.  And, for your information, I am not a liberal.  I am a registered Republican who votes independently, meaning for the best candidate (not the Independent party).  Ooops....there I edited again.  lol
JesusChristPose
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47 posted 10-14-2006 12:09 AM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

"I'm sorry, JCP, but you have me completely baffled."

~ Oh, I have to spell it out for you... you didn't notice your remark of "superman genius" and how that related to a possibility of sarcasm.

"And, for your information, I am not a liberal.  I am a registered Republican who votes independently."

~ Anyone can be a registered anything, but that doesn't make the person a liberal, conservative or anything else.

"Melvin, the best thing you got going for you is your willingness to humiliate yourself."

iliana
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48 posted 10-14-2006 12:17 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

JCP, I often wonder whether you come into a thread to play "blocker" for the quarterback.  I've asked why you haven't commented here and you have still not responded.  It would make sense you would have much to say, given your background....and no, that is not meant sarcastically....and yet, nothing except pounching on me.  

Perhaps, I should have said you were a mindreader....given your credentials, however, I was trying to evoke a response from you.  Afterall, I was told once, that in this forum, you have to have tough skin and that was insinuated to me in a post Mike posted in my thread in the suggestion forum.  So, my suggestion to you is to take my first comment with a little smartdonkey attitude, and my second comment as a challenge.  
iliana
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49 posted 10-14-2006 12:22 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

JCP, well dah, of course.  I am a registered Republican who represented personally an Ohio Senator in 1969 who ran for governor.  I will leave off his name as he disgraced his party.  I personally met Barry Goldwater and was kissed on the check by Ronald Regan (picture subsequently posted in the Western Star newspaper in 1969) and have a group photo with him.  I was one of two Ohio TAR representatives for the Southwest District for radio and attended the Republican conventions campaigning for Richard Nixon.  I am a registered Republican who is very disturbed with the direction of my party.  There.
 
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