Believe it or not, in my high school I never saw or even heard of anyone smoking weed. Any disrespect to a teacher got you sent home immediately. The pledge of allegiance was recited and no one complained about the Under God part. No one minded where Christmas decorations were placed and carols were sung for the Christmas play. If you broke the law you really felt like you would be punished. No, I'm not looking at the past through rose-colored glasses or chanting the old mantra "things were better in my day". That's just the way it was. People didn't run to lawyers every chance they got and more people spent time doing for themselves than expecting handouts from the government. Policemen were respected, as was the president, no matter which party he belonged to. Maybe laws were not stricter but laws were more respected and followed and morality was on a higher level.
Baseball players didn't have agents, either, and their lawyers didn't show up for contract talks.
Hey Mike, we went to the same school!!!! You Never told me you lived in PA!!!!
So good to know, I'm not alone! Whewww!!!
Nope, no rose colored glasses Reb...it's how things were
You should have started with your conclusion, Mike. Attitudes were, indeed, different forty or fifty years ago. No argument. My point all along has been that you're not going to roll back the clock by trying to treat the symptoms.
When we nostalgically opine that laws were more respected in the past perhaps we should also be reminded that respect is something that is earned, not forced? So what has changed?
No one is forcing respect on anyone, it's about something that has been lost...I'm shocked it's still in the dictionary?
Trying to treat the symptoms Ron are quick fixes...it wouldn't take a quick fix to correct what we've done to this country in the last 30 - 40 years...When money becomes a reason for decissions, and it has...attorneys are the ones to come out on top...
When resect for oneself is lost, respect for anyone or anything else is lost...and man, we've lost words like respect, consideration for others, lack of enthusiasum for responsiblity not to oneself but to others.
Heck, how can anyone, stand in a public place and hold a very very personal conversation on their cell phone about their boyfriend, or a family member, when others are trying to unwind from the stress of the day?????? And that is perfectaly acceptable...what ever happened to consideration for others?
We've lost a concept of understanding that all our decissions, actions, words... do not just effect us, but an entire community...and it seems when money is involved in making decissions, we'll folks there goes the neighborhood
Has anyone looked at daytime TV lately? Frankly it sucks, and what programs stay on TV dictates not only the mentality of Americans, but also they're intellectual level. I mean, Jerry Springer and Soap Operas? Why is everyone so interested in Gossip...sheshhh, who cares what Jalo is doing, or dating? Don't we have anything better to do then to concern ourselves with such garbage?
Children are taught in schools that if they're spanked, that is grounds for them to call the police...there is no discipline anymore???? I know parents whose children have outright told them, "I can do anything I want to do, and if you spank me, I'll call the cops and cry abuse"?????? I would really have liked to have seen what would have happened to me, if I'd have said that????
When we favor and/or permit freedom of action regarding laws, we advocate crime and we are all to blame for the laws changing...I really don't care how unfair we think they are, laws were scribed for a reason...you need laws to sustain and control...and if you don't respect laws then all else becomes chaotic.
I hate to break it to you, kids, but since we were young...laws have been bent, and bent again, and again....if this were not true, crime in America, would not be as it is today. The U.S. has the highest per capita prison rate in the world with 715 people in prision per 100,000 of our population. Recidivism (ex prisioners returning to prison after commintting more crimes) is as high as 80% in some areas.
The annual cost of crime alone exceeds over $128 billion dollars.
America incarcerates more people at higher rate than any other country in the world. In the decade from 1994 - 2004, U.S. prison population expanded by more than half a million people.
Daily count in U.S. prisons have surpassed 2.2 million. Over a year, more than 13.5 million people spend time in jail or in prison.
95% eventually return to their communities. 95%???? So Reb, there ya go...but is it working? And, they're are so many people in prison, there isn't enough room...so they release them....
we've become a catch and release system hehe what? We're not fishing? Ohhhhh...
Between 1995 and 2000, the growth rate of prisoners housed in high-security segregation increased 40%, far higher than the growth rate of the overall prison population.
Something is wrong here, and yes, if it's not working this way, we can certainly go back to the way it was....
I'm all for trying to rehabilitate child criminals...I think it's a good thing Reb...but, in the same, those kids need to be under supervision & understand, if they break the law and screw up again, next time, there may not be an out for them....or someone who is willing to invest time, love, patience and understanding for them, to give them opportunity and a chance at a normal life. Sometimes, tough love can be very effective....not all the time, mind you, but sometimes.
We can start by education and promoting respect for the law and law enforcement....that has to be from the parents.
Parents today want baby sitters for their kids, cuz everyone wants the 400,000 home with accessories...and so, both parents must work.
Whose raising the kids...people who don't really become nurturing and caring towards our kids as individuals...they to, are simply doing their jobs.
I work with corporate woman who are so concerned about clothing trends & makeup, their hair, the prestige of a great expensive home with a pool in the back yard...then what kind of person they are inside, or what kind of leaders they are...or, even more, what kind of parents they are, and what they're kids are learning in day care. And they travel???????
We are not creating productivity within our communities...within our children...
Kids are being sexually abused, shot, and I find it absurd, that people aren't livid, they don't protest about this, shouting out at the top of their lungs.....we want change.
Why isn't there more security in our schools? How does an unknown man walk right thru the front door with a shotgun? Oh, I get it, since teachers picketed and got their raise, there was no money left in the kitty for security. Teachers should be ashamed, they make how much for how many months work? Severance pay, full paid medical benefits year round....and ya know, everytime they go on strick right after school starts, well, they should be ashamed. I mean really. Years ago, teachers didn't have that attitude.
Our communities should be outraged!!!! Every single one of us should be embarrassed and angry each time we hear on TV that another human being has been violated??????
We should be taking these crimes VERY personal, as if they have happend to us, to our children, to some one who lives next door.
Unless you've been a victim, you have no idea of the suffering, fear, anxiety, shame, personal stagnation...not to mention the effects on that person, who might possibly grow up to be the same type of persons.
Look at what just happened in Lancaster.
We are so inflated with ourselves, we refuse to see what is really going on. We turn our heads and pretend it didn't happen. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say, "I couldn't watch it...I turned it off, I don't watch the news" Why???? Do we actually Think by not getting involved, pretending it didn't happen, or it won't happen to us, that it's going to go away or get better????
We are a country asleep....and we should be ashamed of ourselves every time another person is victimized. I'm going to say again....WE as a community, have the responsiblity to PROTECT our children...make our communities safer places to live...
I see over and over again...special interest groups who buy politicans....and oft times think, If they would only take all that time, energy and know how to do something really serious for this country and attack crime...or corruption. What I'm saying is this...all the time and money people have put into smoking bans....absolutely amazing. Sure, it's great to go into a place and have it smoke free, but my God, what about our more serious issues?
Smoking bans, are being passed b/c it's a political season...and politicans are jumping on the band wagon to appease....b/c taking an issue like crime under wing is a whole different can of beans...they would arouse way to many corrupt people...and so smoking bans seems to be a way of appeasing.
I'm not against smoking bans...I just really and honestly believe, it is not time and money well spent. But that's another thread...I'm simply using it as an example.
I shake my head in disgust sometimes....when I hear people say..."Oh, it was so horrible, I couldn't watch it" Well, that attitude is exactly what is causing more and more crime.
Have any threads been started in here concerning Foley?????
This man is under investigation for relationships with TEENS...CHILDREN?????
Does this disgust anyone???? Are those same special interest groups hounding our government to get these people out of office. Is it to much to expect law abiding moral leaders....and frankly, I don't really care if he's democrate or republican, what I care about is...that this man, as an individual has broken the law....and if you break the law...there should be consequences according to the severity of the crime.
That is how you control crime...by abiding by the laws. I don't care who you are, the pope, the President of the U.S., an illegal immigrant...a politician...if you break the laws which are on the books, then you don't deserve to have the same rights that law abiding citizens have.
If you abuse a child...by God, you should be put away for good....where you will never be able to touch another child. If you murder someone, in cold blood, with a weapon, with intent to kill...you deserve to be put away for good!
Until we realize, that these people are not productive to society, who harbor no respect for the law of life...or themselves....who harbor no feelings of guilt or fear for their actions....
we will continue to grow criminals who will continue to violate us.
Citizens of the United States have to wake up...or else, these law breaking people...will continue to violate our rights.
Laws on the books were not meant to be bent or broken...because someone has it rough.
We've got to stop making excuses for the actions of someone and simply say...this person does not belong in society, this person needs to be under constant supervison, for the rest of their lives...cuz if they are not, next time, it could be you, or someone in your family.
I wish, every American Citizen, would today, put themselves in the shoes of those parents in Lancaster PA, who are putting their children to rest...and pretend, for one moment, that is your child...and then do that every single time you hear a news report about a mass murdering animal.
yanno, we talk about terror...and fear another attack...and yet, are we any safer from criminals...they to, in their own being are terrorists.....
I'm not trying to breed hate, just stating facts and trying to raise awareness....
Crime is a violation of laws...and if we sit back and continue...we all are responsible, we all will eventually be affected by this....
God bless the cop, who turned his son in for robbery. I know that must have been the most difficult thing in his entire life for him to do...and God bless the boys (who are cops) who turned their father for theft...to me, they are the true citizens who should be leaders, and most certainly role models.
They are the ones whose faces should be on the front pages of magazines...
Why isn't child pornography taken off any web site immediately???????? Because it sells...cold hard facts...to permit such a thing, makes me want to vomit. I cannot believe our coutry tollerats such a thing, not to mention allows it????? Where are we headed?
Oh yeah, you can turn the clocks back...absolutely, and it will happen I'm sure, just not in my lifetime or yours, but somewhere along the line, people are going to get good and sick of it, and when people get angry, thats when they stick together and changes are made. It takes people with goals, people who want to leave this place a little better for their kids....people who have to stop concering themselves with material success, and trends, and start concerning themselves with our mental environment, our spiritual beings...our moral traditions...and stop being so darned liberal and excusing bad behavior.
One more thing, the town I grew up in, was then, filled with law abiding citizens...people who respected their community, and worked together...It was a reality...yes, there was crime, small stuff...but nothing like today...
It could be like that again, if we'd only get our heads out of the sand and work together, stand together...instead of thinking loving the criminal, excusing the criminal is going to make this problem go away.
Call it biased, but I'd prefer to stand by the victims...and fight for them...that to me, is what my heart says is the right thing to do.
The criminal lost his/her rights when they took the life of that child, or beat up that old woman for a measly 20 bucks...or raped a child and buried her alive...I'm sorry, but I feel no sympathy for that person who took away a precious life...who violated trust and innocence. Who now, has effected an entire family for the rest of their lives....
My girlfriends cousin was murdered...his father turned into an alcoholic, his brother, mentally feared going outside...his mother slipped into deep depression...so it's not just about the victim, but an entire family and until we become a nation that realizes that, we will continue to be individulists that strive more for corruption, then for moral obligations to our communities.
[This message has been edited by LeeJ (10-05-2006 08:37 AM).]