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Passions in Poetry

Should the world declare martial law???

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Decriel
Junior Member
since 08-08-2006
Posts 29


0 posted 08-10-2006 02:52 PM       View Profile for Decriel   Email Decriel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Decriel


If the world declared martial we would not have the chaos of today, if some guy gets on your bad side kill him on the spot, finished and complete... Yes the world would be depopulated greatly at first but soon people would realise they are killing themselves off and equlibrium would be reached and harmony would be reached
Digital_Hell
Member
since 06-05-2006
Posts 193
Amidst black roses


1 posted 08-10-2006 03:17 PM       View Profile for Digital_Hell   Email Digital_Hell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Digital_Hell

My brother you know how i feel about this... Many atimes have we even tried convincing the school of this ... I agree fully.

In the olden days, if a man slept with your wife, or impuned on your honour, you were allowed to challange him to a duel. Fight to the death. This is what it is about. Bring back the death penalty, Allow the police greater law and power than the criminals. Fight fire with fire.

Yes the bloodshed and loss of life would be terrible but it would be worth it in the longer run perhaps? Create a society where any crime results in death. Then there will be no more crime.

A sign in  the wind
The fatal last breath
Soft prelude to death
Alone
Amidst black roses

Decriel
Junior Member
since 08-08-2006
Posts 29


2 posted 08-10-2006 03:21 PM       View Profile for Decriel   Email Decriel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Decriel

POLICE?!?!? HAHAHA the black market is more like it, even in our society suppposepdly kept in order by them look what we can get away with, in this world or that they have and will never have any control, they will be among the first to be gunned down
Digital_Hell
Member
since 06-05-2006
Posts 193
Amidst black roses


3 posted 08-10-2006 03:31 PM       View Profile for Digital_Hell   Email Digital_Hell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Digital_Hell

I dont mean normal police, i mean our kind of police . Lethal and emotionless, carrying out their orders perfectly. With no compassion or feeling... You know of what i speak. And you know as well as i do that the world is chaos! Just look at us

A sign in  the wind
The fatal last breath
Soft prelude to death
Alone
Amidst black roses

Digital_Hell
Member
since 06-05-2006
Posts 193
Amidst black roses


4 posted 08-10-2006 03:47 PM       View Profile for Digital_Hell   Email Digital_Hell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Digital_Hell

This raises a very interesting question. They say:

EVIL PREVAILS WHEN GOOD MEN FAIL TO ACT.

At what point should the world lay aside its complacecy and take a firm stand? Take an effective grip of the situation and kill it before it gets further out of hand?

A sign in  the wind
The fatal last breath
Soft prelude to death
Alone
Amidst black roses

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


5 posted 08-10-2006 04:39 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

"We believe that words have power. We also believe that ALL human life is precious and should be protected. Any poetry or prose that condones or promotes hate or violence will be removed from the site immediately." pipTalk Guidelines

The two of you just broke the most important rule in our forums.

By your own professed standards, you get no trial, no explanation, no warnings, no second chances. You are judged guilty and must now face the consequences of your own negligence. So be it.

If that doesn't seem fair, each of you might want to write me a private email and convince me your own barbaric standards shouldn't apply. Who knows? I just might be persuaded ...
kif kif
Member
since 06-01-2006
Posts 431
BCN


6 posted 08-11-2006 04:30 PM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

Martial Law-don't go outside, you'll set the alarm  off!

When you access the coldcut(ONELOVE TO MY HEROES, MATT BLACK and JOHNATHON MORE and another on this particular project, JELLO BIAFRA!) site, scroll left, and left-click to listen...track 10 on 'Let Us Play' (album cover looks like a dolly-mixtures packet-to the left of 'Beats and Pieces') called *EVERY HOME A PRISON to find out what martial law could mean.

*"Curfew-no unauthorised activity."

You are talking about anarchy (*"fend for yourselves, claw for yourselves, stab for yourselves, guard for yourselves what little money, savings, dignity and shelter you have left"), which will be superceded by martial law-do not go outside, do not gather in groups, every activity will be treated suspiciously...(Digital! Please listen to EVERY HOME A PRISON. Do you really believe that individual freedom can be met through martial law? Because, that's what your sweeping comments suggest ) are you ready for that BASE level of survival?  I don't think so-unless you have a posse of drug and gunsmiths at your bidding. In our conversations, you come across as thoughtful-to yourself, and to others. What you're saying here is not thoughtful-even to yourself. Big Tings Gwan. You're in a thoughtless realm with the opinions you project here-really. I think I'm on it, but even I understand, in time of anarchy, I'd be no match, for the badness will destroy all senses.

Surely some protection must be met by the whole of society for the 'delicates' of society, like the old, newly-born, poor and displaced? If not, then we have no roots and culture, only body-armoured robo-cops, visored-up and pumped to pull the trigger on births deaths and marriages. No celebration or congregation of the 'underclasses' will be allowed, and this will prepare the ground for a complete loss of individuality and community. Think about it.

*"There's nothing to look forward to, except what we can score."

'We'll have to live in armed compounds, with armed guards, let's play tennis at gunpoint'?

No way.


[This message has been edited by kif kif (08-11-2006 06:53 PM).]

Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


7 posted 08-12-2006 02:42 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"Any poetry or prose that condones or promotes hate or violence will be removed from the site immediately."

Why didn't you remove the prose then, Ron?  And why aren't we hearing anything back from Digital Hell or Decriel? You will rather ban people instead, when you get the slightest ground to do so? Maybe they were the ones that spoke about a wrong, but you are the one that committed the wrong if you banned them from the forum.  You can't teach anything or understand anything about people by trying to remove them.


Mysteria
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Member Laureate
since 03-07-2001
Posts 19652
British Columbia, Canada


8 posted 08-12-2006 03:18 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

I have a tendency to also do what I want in my house too.  If there is dirt on the floor I just don't sweep it under my carpet, I scoop it up, and throw it out.         If someone doesn't follow the rules of the roost, they don't get invited back, plain and simple.  

Essorant I obviously don't agree as you can see.         First of all this is Ron's site, and all costs come out of his own pocket for us to use, not abuse this poetry forum.  I imagine he is our benefactor because he believes in the written word?  We all have, or should have read the rules signing to get in his door, and if we can't abide by them, then there are a million other places people can post.  

By removing any individual who posts by their own choice against the rules as specified by these forums, that in itself is the lesson.  I see also Ron invited them to privately email him to discuss it, and that is the proper thing to be done in my own opinion.  

By leaving this posting up, I think the message is coming across loud,clear, and fair.

Have a great day!


kif kif
Member
since 06-01-2006
Posts 431
BCN


9 posted 08-12-2006 03:37 PM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

I think it is a brilliant example of exersising freedom of speech. By leaving this post here, Ron is allowing room for manoeuver (sp?)...[even if it's to be locked, it's there to view, and form opinions on.]

If no reason/balance can be met by the two people in question, then it is only right that they are -prevented access-. After all, it is that hard-line that they are advocating-are they exempt from the power of the law they seek?

If an abhorrent subject is spoken of, it's logical that responses must be noted. Also, an apology must be written, in the truest sense of literary meaning, as reply. If the speaker does not reply, then he or she has no business on any stage, and must be prevented from tainting the art of communication.

Essorant; everyone deserves a chance, but if anyone disrespects what's going on, they've got to be told-what Mysteria says about guests in the home is spot on.

Words are deeds-acting immediately.

Defend Or Die.

[This message has been edited by kif kif (08-12-2006 06:02 PM).]

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


10 posted 08-12-2006 11:46 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

It's not Ron's fault that he's been burned so many times before.  I can't blame him, based on some past behaviors, for jumping over other options.

I was sort of interested though, in asking this poster and his cohort who 'the world' is in thier view and what exactly the mechanism would be for such a scenario to take place.  I take it these two are rather young and I'm curious about how this generation views 'the world'.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


11 posted 08-13-2006 03:09 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Honestly, I don't understand this. If you believed in martial law (I guess we're supposed to read this literally?), then why are you waiting for someone to tell you what to do?

I don't buy the premise.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


12 posted 08-13-2006 03:44 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Hmmmm.

I think I need a good definition of martial law.

We've been under martial law for quite some time here in New Orleans--then they lifted it--then they called the National Guard back in to "assist" the NOPD, and although there are strict curfews enforced in parts of the city, I'm still not certain of the laws (or my rights, resultant)

So um, I'm confused.

What would martial law entail?

I am assuming that definition would have to be defined by a global order.

That leaves me confused, as um, well this ideology of global world order seems to be what is causing so much global disorder.

And if it is what was outlined by the opening exchange, then I thought Ron's move was a lovely mental finesse.



kif kif
Member
since 06-01-2006
Posts 431
BCN


13 posted 08-13-2006 06:18 AM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

The person who posted might just be naive, or perhaps it's trolling behaviour?
Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 11-03-1999
Posts 4427
Oklahoma, USA


14 posted 08-13-2006 12:30 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

quote:
Main Entry: martial law
Function: noun
1 : the law applied in occupied territory by the military authority of the occupying power
2 : the law administered by military forces that is invoked by a government in an emergency when the civilian law enforcement agencies are unable to maintain public order and safety

Karen, I at least hope that #2 is the case in N.O. To get back to the original thread ideas, I can't envision any authority strong enough to invoke #1 for "The World." The whole scenario is pretty well discredited. I don't think these guys ever had any serious intent in anything they said, just another effort at shock value. LR, I can't imagine that you wouldn't have learned anything of value from them.

Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


15 posted 08-13-2006 02:26 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Mysteria,

"I have a tendency to also do what I want in my house too.  If there is dirt on the floor I just don't sweep it under my carpet, I scoop it up, and throw it out."  


So if you ever say something wrong in someone's house, you should be treated like dirt for it?   How is that respectful and on root with the respects and rules of Passions?   In fact, how is that not quite contrary to them?   You are promoting treating people like dirt.  By your and Ron's approach, then, shoudn't you be banned too?  What is stopping Ron?   If you posted those things that Digital Hell or Decrial posted, would you be banned today?


"By leaving this posting up, I think the message is coming across loud,clear, and fair."

Fair to treat people like dirt?  Fair that if Mysteria wrote such a thing she obviously wouldn't be banned today?  Fair that many other people in the past posted inappropriate things and were rightly not banned, but are still thankfully at Passions, perhaps some of the most influential members?


  
Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 11-03-1999
Posts 4427
Oklahoma, USA


16 posted 08-13-2006 05:47 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

I believe it was more than just this thread. It seemed pretty clear fight from the start that these two had no respect for these forums. Nearly everything either posted was purely for shock and disruptive in nature. They wanted to treat PIP as their personal chat room. I think Ron saw an attitude problem and resolved it before it got out of hand. You might judge his action as premature or heavy-handed but I can also understand his unwillingness to deal with disruptive behavior. And there truly is a difference between inappropriate postings by a long time, active member and one just starting.

JMHO, of course.
kif kif
Member
since 06-01-2006
Posts 431
BCN


17 posted 08-13-2006 06:00 PM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

Well, perhaps some people are 'disruptive in nature.' That's not always a bad thing, but in the context of posting enflammatory remarks, disruption must be supported with the validation of intent.

Some people are sensational in their method of communication, that's not for us to judge; what is for us to judge is if that sensationalism is just a tool for personal attention, or if it is calling for attention to a valid question.

So far, the two in question have not replied; but it is the weekend...

ps;Essorant, you're pontificating, and clouding the issue with the angle of tolerance you project. I'm sure the metaphor implied the words, not the people in question. To follow...food is not the problem, it's leaving it out to go rotten, attracting ants, and worse, cockroaches. Housekeeping must be taken care of in order to live healthily.
Mysteria
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
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since 03-07-2001
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British Columbia, Canada


18 posted 08-13-2006 06:20 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Essorant your comment is precisely why I love the written word, it means whatever the reader wants it to mean, not necessarily what the writer intended it to mean.          

To answer your remarks, which I almost didn't, this is to let you know that I would be the last person to be that disrespectful to refer to people as "dirt."  I would suspect your trouble is with my metaphors.  As for your comment about members being "perhaps some of the most influential members?" I know for a fact from being a moderator, that every single person here at this site is treated exactly the same if they act accordingly to the "house rules."  Trust me, had I posted this as you suggested against the rules, I too would be until I apologized, and talked it out.  Actually, I am pretty sure that was the intent.  

I think if everyone took a turn at "cleaning the dust and dirt in these halls" they may understand better the concepts used to run the place, rather than assuming how it is done.  This is perhaps the ONLY site that runs things so fairly, honestly, with more integrity than the rest, and that is why we are here I believe aren't we?

Here is the link to Poet deVine's request for our members to sign up, and perhaps if some might think about taking a turn at being a moderator, they would surely see how the old blue pages are run?
http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum3/HTML/004101.html
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


19 posted 08-13-2006 06:41 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Mysteria


"To answer your remarks, which I almost didn't, this is to let you know that I would be the last person to be that disrespectful to refer to people as "dirt."  I would suspect your trouble is with my metaphors.  "

Whether you intended or not, you aligned throwing dirt out, with banning a member.  Period.  How can you try and say I twisted that?  

Right after my comment about removing a member you said:

"I have a tendency to also do what I want in my house too.  If there is dirt on the floor I just don't sweep it under my carpet, I scoop it up, and throw it out.         If someone doesn't follow the rules of the roost, they don't get invited back, plain and simple.  


Treating people like dirt.  Period.
Don't try to play the game "words can mean anything".  They can't.   The evidence speaks against you.


Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


20 posted 08-13-2006 07:44 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"I believe it was more than just this thread. It seemed pretty clear fight from the start that these two had no respect for these forums. "

Pete,

What thread more?  An invisible one?  Another username--just like almost every other member here has at this forum?  

I watch these forums fairly closely too, Pete.  I didn't see anything wrong at all with the discussions Digital Hell brought up and participated in Philosophy and some other forums.  Despite having a darker-side in perspective, he showed good manners in discussing things, and willingness to question and think about things.  I have no doubt that he had acknowledged and understood that he spoke wrong and out of place here.  And would probably discuss it as mannerly as he did other things in the forums, if at least given a chance.



[This message has been edited by Essorant (08-13-2006 08:30 PM).]

Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


21 posted 08-13-2006 08:11 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

Not a Poet

I donít really have a firm opinion concerning what went on in and around this thread Ė I donít have enough information. This comment however struck me as odd:

quote:
And there truly is a difference between inappropriate postings by a long time, active member and one just starting.


Do you mean they should be treated differently?

If yes how should they be treated differently?
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


22 posted 08-13-2006 08:45 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Thanks Pete.

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


23 posted 08-13-2006 09:03 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I made a passing comment in coversation one day and said "that's the pot calling the kettle black"

One of my black friends objected to this -- rather strongly -- saying it was a racist comment.

I defended it saying it was just a figure of speech meant to merely say that someone was being a hypocrite.

He remained stalwartly opposed to the idea because he said that the underlying implication is that there is something WRONG with being black.

Ah...   the lightbulb went off in my head..

I understood his perspective -- but that didn't change the fact that THAT was NOT what I was saying in my invocation of the phrase.

You're making a rather strong, unfortunate, indictment of Mysteria Ess.

Even though you can grammatically and logically infer the analogy that doesn't mean that was her intent at all.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


24 posted 08-14-2006 12:06 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

That is why context is important, Local.

I may not blame your saying what you did if you were speaking about something nonracial and casually said what you did.

But if you used that phrase with a racial issue, while talking about treatment of people, perhaps specifically talking about black people, your comment would really be out of place and inappropriate, no matter what your intentions were.  And I imagine you would agree that that would make it inappropriate as well.

It is not the words in the thread that are  being referred to as removed here.  They are still in the open for everyone to see.  It is the the treatment of a member being removed or banned for writing those words.  And then Mysteria used the metaphor of dirt being removed.  That was inappropriate in this, as the saying "calling the kettle black", if in a context talking about a racial issue involving black people.  But obviously she won't be banned.  And rightly so.

If only such respect were shown to other members as well, especially those that, from what they say, may more than ever need help thro critical discussion and speech.   When someone is thinking and speaking in an unhealthy manner, that is often when they need help the most thro friendship, acceptance and respectful discussion to help them understand better.

That is no time for family and friends to say "no, get out of my house"


 
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