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bombings in Israel

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rhia_5779
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0 posted 07-16-2006 01:32 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

   Israel is currently fighting two battles. One with the Hamas in Gaza, and another with the Hezbollah up in Beirut, Haifia and northern Israel. They think  bombs might also reach Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

What do you guys think is gonna happen?
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1 posted 07-16-2006 03:57 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

LOL! I think no one has that crystal ball.

For my part, I admire the Israeli stance on this. I am not Jewish and have no interest in Jewish politics (and have done my share at screaming at their inconsideration and rudeness here in Florida!) but I do admire their actions here. With the obvious exception of lamenting the deaths associated with the events of the past week, I feel that taking the fight to the terrorists may bring benefits. Lookat the comments from the G8 summit today...

The leaders of the world's eight industrial powers issued a strong statement condemning Hezbollah militants but also urged Israel to exercise restraint in its military actions against Lebanon.

The statement said it was critical for Israel to "be mindful of the strategic and humanitarian consequences of its actions." It called on Israel "to exercise utmost restraint" by seeking to avoid casualties among innocent civilians and damage to civilian infrastructure.

Merkel, speaking to reporters, said: "We do not want to let terrorist forces and those who support them have the opportunity to create chaos in the Middle East. Therefore we place value on clearly identifying the cause and effect of events."

She said the leaders believe that "first of all, that the Israeli soldiers must be returned unharmed, that the attacks on Israel must stop and that then, of course, also the Israeli military action must be ended."

The U.N. Security Council adopted Resolution 1559 in September 2004, calling for the disarmament of all militias and strict respect for Lebanon's sovereignty, territorial integrity, unity and political independence. Hezbollah, which operates in southern Lebanon, has refused to disarm, saying it is a resistance movement.


I think that's an amazing statement. They are not condemning the Israeli response to the kidnapping of its soldiers and instead are condemning ALL terrorist organizations creating havoc in the Middle East. This could be a very important step in the downfall of terrorist groups, urging governments and local populace to rise up against them. Who knows? At least it has been voiced - a first as far as my memory is concerned.

It's also another example of U.N. ineptitude in it's failure to enforce its regulations...so what's new? It also brings the weight to bear on the Lebanese government, who failed to adhere to the regulation. They are now paying for those sins and are faced with civil war.

Events in the Middle East have not changed for who knows how many years because no one has done anything. Perhaps this is a good first step. Saudi Arabia came out condemning Hazbollah and not Israel for this conflict. That's a good thing.

I also admire Bush for his support and non-interference of the situation. No doubt he will be chastized by many for not admonishing Israel.

As someone once said, "If the terrorist put down their guns, there will be peace. If Israel puts down its guns, there will be no Israel." The pressure they have always lived under from being surrounded by countries intent on destroying them has to be incredible, They do what they do to survive...and they do it well.
Mistletoe Angel
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2 posted 07-16-2006 04:35 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I'm mixed on the whole situation.

I don't consider myself either "pro-Israel", "pro-Palestine", "pro-Lebanon", etc. My stance is simply that every one of these nations have the right to co-exist, and I find it unfortunate that some stress only Israel's right to exist unilaterally, which I feel every administration we've had since at least 1980 has, while lots of "peace activists" put all the blame on Israel and consider them the only aggressor in the region.

It is wrong what both those couple Palestinian soldiers did to that Israeli civilian, as with those Hezbollah militants and their actions. I also believe Israel's government overreacted terribly and as immoral as those individual kidnaps are, I believe that doesn't give Israel the right to invade and occupy entire nations in retaliation, and Lebanon's people especially are only put in more extreme danger because of this, along with Hezbollah.

I'm mixed on Bush's response as well. I believe it is wise for him not to vigorously interfere in the conflict, and believe he meant well in saying Israel has the right to defend itself and asking for restraint in their actions, but I also don't see this overreaction as an exercise of defending itself, but more of an offense, and wished he could voice more boldly that intervening campaigns of this capacity are wrong and not the way to go about resolving this conflict.

Some are actually scared this will escalate into World War III. That's not going to happen. I think a prisoner exchange will most likely happen, and some point out to the worst-case scenario that Israel will attack Syria and that will lead to a widespread Middle Eastern conflict, but I don't see that happening, because neither country wants a war.

One other thing that also must be understood is that the Israel cabinet has just been recently filled with many fresh faces, who are inexperienced in national defense, and it's easy to recognize they simply overreacted through their naivety.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

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3 posted 07-16-2006 04:46 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I believe that doesn't give Israel the right to invade and occupy entire nations in retaliation,

Please specify the entire nations that they have invaded and occupied.
Alicat
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4 posted 07-16-2006 04:49 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

For some reason my mind keeps flipping back to the 50's when a fledgling Israel not only beat back a multinational force, but also took the Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and the Sinai, among other seized territories.  Hezbully et al really don't want to do this.  The US is a staunch Ally of Israel and has been since the Nazi atrocities, which Islamic Fundamentalist call fiction.  Seems that every nation aside from those know about what happened at those camps between 1936 and 1944.

The real tragedy is what the Fundamentalist and terrorists have done to once beautiful cities.  Beirut and Tehran are prime examples.  Those cities were called 'stars of the East' prior to 1976, and were reknown for their architecture, beauty and culture.  Only a diehard grundge-industrialist would find the same beauty post 1983.  If the Islamic Fundamentalists want to bring back the Golden Age of Islam, then why does it look like so much rust?
Mistletoe Angel
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5 posted 07-16-2006 05:13 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Since 1967, Israel has occupied the Syrian Golan Heights, as well as the agricultural Lebanese land that is Shebaa Farms, which Israel captured once in 1967, then again in 1973 and has retained ever since. Syria still occupies Lebanon to some extent as well.

Also, in June 1982, Israel invaded Lebanon and its capital Beirut. It withdrew from Beirut the following year, and partially withdrew from parts of southern Lebanon under Prime Minister Ehud Barak in May 2000, but continues to occupy portions of southern Lebanon to this day, using it strategically to combat Hezbollah militants from the 1990's to now.

So this conflict is quite complex, and though I believe all the people of Israel mean well and condemn these previous unfortunate acts, part of the issue here is that there's no acknowledgment of the destruction visited on Lebanon by Israel over the last 32 years, and until both this is recognzied, as well as the violent actions and crimes Hezbollah has committed, many Lebanese will simply not forgive and forget. And when Israel's government chooses to go bombing Beirut's airport multiple times, for instance, rather than approach the prisoner crisis open-mindedly, there's just not going to be a peaceful border without doing more that withdrawing from a crisis they take partial responsibility in.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

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6 posted 07-16-2006 05:27 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

By all means, Noah, lay partial responsibility on Israel. Secretly they wanted their soldiers to be kidnapped. Secretly they wanted the Six Day War. They enjoy being attacked without provocation.

Instead of facing it open-mindedly? You can't be serious. You say that part of the problem may be the lack of experience and naivety of the Israel cabinet? With all due respect, I contend that the same applies to you.
Mistletoe Angel
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7 posted 07-16-2006 06:31 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

With all due respect, where did I suggest or accuse Israel of secretly desiring their own soldiers' captures and blueprinting their own Six Day War? I didn't say either of those things.

You would be no better prepared than I would for living up to the tasks and qualifications of the Israeli cabinet, for not one of us here will ever truly fathom and understand the human magnitude of this conflict, with neither one of us having ever even visiting the region.

Kacey (Midnitesun) is the one here I believe who is closest in understanding the most human and psychologcal conflict in the region, as she lived at one point of her life in Palestine. If anything, I am very interested in hearing her thoughts here, as I believe she can add a greater depth to this discussion.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Alicat
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8 posted 07-16-2006 06:59 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Gracious, if you want humanistic understanding, look no further than the Talmud, Koran, Septagent or Old Testament.  Seriously.  Some of those grudges and hatreds go back thousands of years.
Midnitesun
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9 posted 07-16-2006 09:37 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

I only have a few minutes to spend here today, so I'll be brief. My heart breaks with every newscast, as I still have friends and extended family in the Middle East. In the West and in Europe and indeed, around this globe , we need to be supporting people like Uri Avnery, and all peace activists groups like Gush Shalom. Uri meets face-to-face regularly with peace-seeking Palestinians, as they work for solutions which are founded upon mutual respect and a desire to move beyond rockets, bullets, swords and stones. The media presents us with such a distorted image, and the hard-line Israelis, Palestinians and the Hezbollah of Lebanon stifle these peace activists with their penchant for constantly resorting to ancient traditional hostile tit-for-tat reactions. Someone has to find a way put the weapons down, come to the table in open honesty and make a committment to move forward, to LIVE  side-by-side, to stop being so willing to DIE side-by-side.
I have friends who are suffering on both sides, who just want to get up in the morning and have breakfast, go to work or play, tend their crops or animals, care for their children as their chosen deity intended.
Until we all accept and respect each other's rights to survival and dignity, to pursue freedom and happiness without first taking it away from anyone else, there will forever be warfare. And it's global, not just the Middle Wast. Look around and count the 'hot spots' on planet Earth.
The Israelis have been targeted constantly for many years, and so have the Palestinians. It's way past time to find ways to co-exist. But of course, each one has a right and a duty to defend and protect their families.
It's a different mindset altogether than what we are seeing currently, that demands an end to all the fighting as a basis for mutual self-protection.

[This message has been edited by Midnitesun (07-16-2006 11:43 PM).]

Not A Poet
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10 posted 07-16-2006 09:59 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

Not only have the terrorists crossed the border to kidnap Israeli soldiers, but both Hamas and Hesbollah regularly launch rocket over the border into Israel, usually to the tune of a hundred or so every day. I think the Israelis have done everything humanly possible to end that short of eliminating the source. They are undoubtedly just fed up with the whole bunch of crap and are atking whatever steps are necessary to protect their population.

If there were a terrorist group just over the border in Canada or Mexico sending rockets into the U.S. and their governments refused to do anything at all to put a  stop to it, you can bet your ass that ours would.
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11 posted 07-17-2006 12:27 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Kacey, I symphasize with how you must feel, having close friends in the area who re in the middle of this fighting. That being said, I don't understand your comments very well.

Until we all accept and respect each other's rights to survival and dignity, to pursue freedom and happiness without first taking it away from anyone else, there will forever be warfare.

It's way past time to find ways to co-exist. But of course, each one has a right and a duty to defend and protect their families.


Those are certainly the right feelings to have but how do you explain them to terrorists?  Do you really think groups like Hazbollah, who have made Israel their sworn enemies, or Iran, who has publicly stated that israel must be destroyed, is even remotely interested in any Israeli's right to survival and dignity? Do you feel they want ways to co-exist? Do you feel they are only interested in protecting their families, these people who train their children to be suicide bombers and feel pride when their children blow themselves up? It's not a question of both sides doing their part to have peace in the region. Have you heard of an Israeli suicide bomber? Heard of any camps in Israel where they openly display their training camps to kill their own children? Have you seen any instance of Israel attacking a country or occupying other land which was not a response of being attacked or declared war upon? Your call is to reason with those groups? Like  we could have reasoned with the pilots that flew into the WTC? Like we can reason with Al-Qaida? How do you reason with someone whose only intent is to destroy you and your way of life?

The tragedy, of course, is the innocents, as it is in any  war. I am sure that the majority of people prefer peace and would want to co-exist. Unfortunately they elect and harbor groups of hatred  and, when those groups cross the line and are attacked, the innocents are also in harm's way...in the same way three thousand died on 9/11 because an extremist group wants the destruction of democratic countries and protested the role of the United States in the Middle East. Is that the fault of the fellow serving coffee on the 40th floor of Tower 1? Nope...but he is just as dead. You think Hazbollah sneaked into Israel to kidnap young soldiers as a way to defend and protect their families?

Stating the common, standard "Why can't we all get along?" and "Let's all love one another" comments sound nice but are not realistic and present no solution to what is happening - and has been happening for decades - there. It will stop when one of two conclusions are reached...(1) the terrorist organizations sworn to the destruction of Israel are wiped out or (2) Israel is destroyed. As I stated earlier, it is an optimistic thing that the G-8 has come out to finally openly criticize the terrorist organization and name Hazbollah as the instigators. That's a start that I pray will encourage the citizenry of the countries like Jordan and Syria to rise up and fight against these groups who are bringing destruction to their countries.

Find ways to co-exist, you say? That's easy. Stop attacking Israel and there will be peace. It's that simple....
XOx Uriah xOX
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12 posted 07-17-2006 08:51 AM       View Profile for XOx Uriah xOX   Email XOx Uriah xOX   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for XOx Uriah xOX

" Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael...
And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." --- Genesis 16:11,12
Hmmm   Based on this...everything seems to be in order.
Midnitesun
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13 posted 07-17-2006 12:34 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Stop attacking Israel. Of course, that's a no-brainer beginning point I wish would settle in on the brains of those who attack. And I also would ask the hardline Israelis who have fallen into the trap of retaliating every single time with greater force to stop and look at where they are heading. Believe me, after living and working side by side with Muslims, Christians, Jews, (and Bahai's) I am convinced most want to coexist peacefully, and the people I know there are working towards a very different agenda than the one the government operates under. It's this peace activist group I support, not the nationalistic flag wavers or radical fundamentalists of any religion. And believe me, I know about those incoming rockets, grenades, and snipers first hand, about what it means to hit the deck and hope you see tomorrow's sun shine. I don't expect the terrorists to suddenly start handing out olive branches. I do, however, expect the majority of humans to earnestly search for and find ways to end the violence. Lots of us work daily toward that goal, and we can only assume and pray that our efforts will eventually turn things around. I am an optomist, maybe a dreamer. But it's the only way my brain and heart can continue to get up each day and say HEY! let's see what we can do today to turn the tide, move AWAY from violence on all levels and embrace and encourage peaceful behaviors. I still believe we have it in our power to do that, though it is getting harder and harder each day to remain upbeat.
My efforts and energy will continue to be directed towards finding solutions that don't involve fighting, though I have to agree, there are times when we seem forced into it. I believe the Israeli government has stepped over the line this time though...perhaps, one of the same lines we Americans have stepped over more than once. So there you have it, my thoughts and comments, even if they seem illogical to you, they are a workable platform for peace for this human. I want all those who are fighting to put the weapons down and spend as much time working to build a peace platform as they are willing to spend on arming themselves to the teeth. The survival of humanity is dependent upon our learning to go beyond the constant cycles of threatening and retaliation. Maybe you first have to believe Peace is a possibility, not just a wild and crazy dream.
Thanks for listening to me.
Namaste, and Peace to all.
Marge Tindal
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14 posted 07-17-2006 01:51 PM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal


Balladeer~
I read, but usually don't enter into these discussions ... yet I just have to ask what you might have meant by -
quote:
I am not Jewish and have no interest in Jewish politics (and have done my share at screaming at their inconsideration and rudeness here in Florida!)
- is there a relevancy to what's going on over there now that we should be concerned with ?

Being here in Florida, or anywhere else in this world ... I just have NEVER,EVER found those of Jewish ethnicity to be either rude or inconsiderate~

I'm just curious as to what you might be trying to convey with those comments~

Not meaning to hijack a thread, but would like an explanation for what you stated~
Thanks~
~*Marge*~

~*The sound of a kiss is not as strong as that of a cannon, but it's echo endures much longer*~
Email -       noles1@totcon.com       

Mistletoe Angel
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15 posted 07-17-2006 01:53 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Balladeer, I wish the solution would be that simple. Unfortunately, the nature of this conflict goes much deeper than that.

We must never forget the barbaric, violent acts of bigotry Nazi Germany committed on millions of innocent Jews during World War II, and see to it anti-Semitism shall not rear its ugly head again and reject Israel's right to exist.

But we also must recognize the right for their neighbors to exist as well. Just as much a part of the conflict is that Israel has intervened with their neighbors in the past, and I also sympathize with the Palestinians in that indeed much of their land has been stolen and remains occupied with new settlements only for themselves being built on, such as in Jayyus, in the Occupied West Bank, where they uprooted as many as 750 olive trees and has become what is known as "Nofei Tzofin".

The right for Israel to exist is a most important part of the solution, but just a piece of it. There can't be favoritism here; there needs to be some sort of two-state solution, which proposes one Palestinian state and one Israeli state side-by-side in peace and security. It's through this course of action where we'll see this diplomacy act as a two-way street; forcing Palestinians to end violent resistance to Israelís policies, while also requiring that Israel return land it occupied in 1967 and end its policies of stolen land.

Indeed there are groups that don't want to recognize Israel and call for its destruction, which Hamas may be one of them. But it's important that we separate the parties from the people here, and recognize that in the heart of this conflict, Palestinians just didn't wake up one day and thought, "Hey, let's fire missiles at Jerusalem!" No, the crux of this conflict is rooted in land ownership.

Part of the reason tensions remain heavy in the region is that in 1967, more than 700,000 Christian and Muslim Palestinians were forcibly pushed off of their land by Israel, occupying Arab East Jerusalem, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and began a program to evict Christian and Muslim Palestinians from their land to build Jewish-only settlements, which only makes life more difficult for their Muslim and Christian neighbors. To this day, about 380,000 Israeli citizens now live on these settlements on the West Bank.

These actions violate Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, which states, "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."

Obviously the problem runs more complex than this, but a simplistic, condensed version of the solution is to restore the West Bank Map to its 1967 borders, give back what was rightfully the Palestinians, let there be an oath that Palestinian militias and extremists will no longer attack Israel, and establish Israel and Palestine together as two separate, recognized states.

As for Lebanon, the issue is more complex there, but basically both Syria and Israel must recognize what is rightfully Lebanon's, while the Lebanese promise no further attacks on their own ways of life.

Some may think of this option as utopian. To me, it's no more utopian than the frequent exchanging of militaristic barbs over the span of decades, and, if anything, is far less utopian than war ping-pong. I myself would pick the dove's utopia over the hawk's utopia any day, for if we choose the hawk's utopia, inevitably will come the day where we'll no longer take a deep breath of fresh air, admire the lawn, notice all the pretty buildings, people sitting in the Waffle House having breakfast, kids playing hop-scotch in the schoolyard humming Louis Armstrong's "What A Wonderful World" and so forth.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

[This message has been edited by Mistletoe Angel (07-17-2006 02:51 PM).]

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16 posted 07-17-2006 04:12 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, Marge, I'm not sure why that comment would get your knickers in knots   but you obviously don't live in South Florida, or else you don't have a lot of contact with the Jewish population. Case in point....I have a customer of 15 years who is Jewish, to the point that she has family living there, travels there at least twice a year and has two sons in the Israeli army, She is a nice lady and a good friend. One time a while back, she asked me "Why do so many people dislike us so much? so I had a conversation with her. I told her that, in a line of 20 people in a supermarket or bank, I could pick out the two Jews in less than a minute. They   are louder, more aggressive, more animated, more forceful and more demanding. They have different goals and priorities in life than others. The terms Jewish American Princess and "My son's a doctor!" didn't appear out of nowhere. I told her that type of aggressiveness and behavior could be grating on other types of personalities. Are we talking all Jews? Of course not....but we ARE talking about a reasonable percentage of them. Guess what? She agreed with me completely. She said a lot of it is in the upbringing, in the way they had to grow up in an "us against the world" atmosphere, in knowing that they have been persecuted since the beginning of time and they had no one to depend on except themselves and  their forcefulness and directness were their weapons, as was their desire for monetary success, which translates into safety and security. I could understand her perfectly.

How do I feel about the Jewish population and Israel? I think I admire them more than any other country on Earth. The challenges they have faced have been constant and overwhelming. They have not faltered. They have taken a worthless stretch of sand and made a successful country out of it. Look at their agriculture. They grow an abundance of crops by utilizing a method of production which uses every single drop of water, dripped on plants at regular intervals. Look at the surrounding countries. Where Israel has agriculture and production, the others have sand. Is it any wonder the others hate them? Israel has asked from help from no one. Yes, they certainly accept it from the U.S. but, if necessary, they would do without it and continue the same way. They are a people to be admired.

Having said that, I still don't want to be behind them in a movie line and, although I consider Streisand as possible the greatest female singer of my lifetime, I would have no desire to meet her for lunch. Her manner and aggressiveness would be too much for me.   go figure...

Kacey, I would never call your thoughts and hopes illogical. There can be no reality without the dream of it beforehand. The terrorists will not change but, just maybe, the general population will find a way to overcome them and shut them down. That will be the only way. I admire everything you do and have done in the name of promoting peace and I pray for the safety of your friends in the area.
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17 posted 07-17-2006 04:31 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

RIYADH (Reuters) - U.S. ally Saudi Arabia on Monday stepped up its criticism of Lebanese and Palestinian militants, saying their actions had allowed
Israel to wage war against their people.
"Some elements and groups have got loose and slipped into taking decisions on their own that Israel has exploited to wage a ferocious war against Lebanon and to imprison the entire Palestinian people," a cabinet statement said.

"Saudi Arabia stands together with the legitimate and reasonable-minded national forces in Lebanon and occupied Palestine to combat these dangers to the Arab and Muslim nation," it added.

Saudi Arabia last week criticized Hizbollah and its backer Iran saying "elements" in Lebanon and "those behind them" were responsible for an Israeli offensive on its northern neighbor to stop strikes by the Shi'ite guerrilla group.

The unusually frank comments have provoked heated debate in the Arab world, where sympathy toward resistance to perceived U.S.-Israeli hegemony in the region runs high.


It's a  start....
rhia_5779
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18 posted 07-17-2006 07:17 PM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

Let me just comment , that the land that you say was stolen from the palestinians and is now Israel's, wasn't rightfully anyones. the palestinians have equal claim to that land as to the land that makes up the major part of Israel.
Just as Israel has claim to the lalnd. for both people had been living there for centuries, and for one the land was their homeland, for the other it was their hope, after World war || it was supposed to prevent that type of racism form reacurring, (i mean there were other reasons, but having a jewish state was supposed to help0. it has in the western world. we are still working on it in the rest of the world.

btw , im not saying that i agree of Israel pushing people out of the land they captured. just that no one group had  a major claim on the land. they it worked out was pretty good.

personally i hope Israel wins this particular conflict. well i want that because my best friend is currently in Israel and staying in one of the cities that they think may get hit with bombs.
Marge Tindal
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19 posted 07-18-2006 10:50 AM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal

Bal~
quote:
Are we talking all Jews? Of course not....but we ARE talking about a reasonable percentage of them.
I guess I just find it inconceivable that a mere 249 miles north of your place of residence there exists a reasonable percentage of wonderful Jewish people who apparently aren't aware of your personal experiences.
They are a marvelous group of Jewish people that I've known and loved for many years~

I just had a feeling that your comments were somewhat prejudicially motivated and hoped that I had interpreted them incorrectly ... to have you confirm that I had not done so was a letdown~

Sorry to have interrupted the thread ... gotta go unknot my knickers~
Barbara might be coming for dinner~
Go figure~

~*The sound of a kiss is not as strong as that of a cannon, but it's echo endures much longer*~
Email -       noles1@totcon.com       

LeeJ
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SE PA


20 posted 07-18-2006 02:25 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

A cohort and I shared lunch yesterday.  She made a very interesting comment that I know a lot of you ladies will like.

She said
"I just wish women, all over the world, would get off their high horses and take control for once...stop allowing men to run them around and use them for mothers....women are a strong bunch...and if they'd all stick together and say, "this is it, no more wars!"   "It's time to stop watching the soap operas, spending hords of money on cloths...I think women would be much more conservative (no politics intended) confident and powerful, if they'd stop playing a man's game."  "Men are the ones who start these wars..."

something to ponder, yanno?

I ponder sometimes, b/c I've done it myself years ago, if women go through their lives playing dumb, so to speak, bowing to the natural instinct that we've been conditioned to believe we are the lesser, sex.  When I was younger, I was a tom boy, and the boys were intimidated by a gal smarter then them, not to mention, they surely didn't like it when a girl beat them at their masculine games...and so, unconsciously, I adopted a mask.  

now, all you men, don't go throwing tomatoes and rotten fruit...throw money instead, prefably dollar bills cause they don't sting...

I'm sorry, didn't mean to get off the topic, but Margies comment simply proved my point.  

These wars are to me, a waste of everything good, first and foremost, human life.  Ridiculous...and sad...the lengths that men will go to, to win an argument...think about it...

Balladeer
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21 posted 07-18-2006 09:27 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, Marge, we are 245 miles and a world apart. Last time I checked DeLand was not one of the top tourist hotspots in Florida but I can assure you Ft. Lauderdale and Miami Beach are. How many of your Jewish friends are you referring to? 10? 20? I can show you that many at any stoplight here.  I don't know why you are taking my comments as prejucial. I was speaking differences, nothing more. I don't know what part of How do I feel about the Jewish population and Israel? I think I admire them more than any other country on Earth you didn't understand. At any rate, if I let you down, don;t worry. You're not the first and you won't be the last. Make Barbra sing for her supper
kif kif
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22 posted 07-24-2006 05:23 AM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

I think Israel is a bully-just like their bedfellows, America, and their little brother, Britain.

Snatching land by building walls, keeping the poor contained, and squashing the opposition by murdering scores of civilians.

This terrorism didn't come out of nowhere-it came through desperation to maintain communities that didn't want to comply with Israel's and the West's idea of 'how to live.' The 1st democracy in Palestine shows just how the locals feel-Hamas was voted in. Hizbollah have just as much rights to democracy as the rest of the world...look at the struggle in Ireland. America gave funding and support to 'the fight for freedom' hosted by the I.R.A for years...yet Britain are America's greatest allies-pathetic (the IRA bombed civilians...that was their forte), now America and Britain are backing Isreal. Am I to support a side just because the most powerful tells me to? No chance...especially since it's ethically contradictory.

This war is all about resources, and Isreal plan to cover the resources, just like Laputa, in Gullivers Travels.
Balladeer
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23 posted 07-24-2006 12:05 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

One of the advantages of free speech - everyone is entitled to voice their opinions. Some base them on facts and others not....but everyone is entitled
kif kif
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24 posted 07-24-2006 12:27 PM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

Yes, and some base their opinions which translate into International Politics, on fear-mongering, media spin and extreme right-wing ideals.

It's all very well for us to sit in comfort, and 'decide' who's right or wrong, but the facts stand. "If you're not with us, you're against us" to quote the words of the biggest bully, G.W.Bush.
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