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bombings in Israel

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kif kif
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75 posted 08-01-2006 06:26 PM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

I'll be back tomorrow, but for now, even Tony Blair's admitted today, in America, that a radical change of plan is needed "to fight those who are against us." He goes on to say that military action is not working.

For now, I've had enough of looking at the extremism coming off Balladeer, especially in light of Israels fresh attacks, just started. Incidentally, most bridges have been destroyed in Lebanon. People and aid are stuck, with only one mountain road passable, but for how long?
Balladeer
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76 posted 08-02-2006 08:00 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

So, if someone uses you as a human shield anyone that deems it necessary is within their rights to kill you if need be?

Israel isn't wrong for attempting to eliminate the power of Hizbullah -- but for the way they are going about it -- without regard for the innocent Lebanese who have every bit as much right to LIVE in peace.


Ok, reb. I see the condemnation for both sides but what's the actual thought here? It comes out like one of those Mensa test questions.

(1) Hazbollah is using civilians as human shields.

(2) When Israel responds to rocket  attacks, civilians used as human shields die.

(3) Israel has the right to defend themselves

(4) Hazbollah launches rocket attacks from apartment rooftops and in the middle of civilian areas.

Conclusion being what? Israel should not retaliate when civilians are placed in danger - which means Israel should forget the whole thing because Haz is ALWAYS placing the local populace in danger? When the DO respond then do they merit your above-mentioned comment about them having no regard for human life?

Your caviling about them screaming for the destruction of Israel previously and your contention here that that's what they will always do anyway is logically inconsistent.  

How DARE you call me a caviler!!! I'll be upset as soon as I look up what that means Afraid I don't understand that comment. They HAVE always screamed for the destruction of Israel - Hazbollah, Hamas, Syria, Iran, Al_Qaida. They have invaded Israel, declared war on Israel and maintained a constant practice of rocket attacks and suicide bombers. Bin Laden stated that 9/11 was a result of the U.S. support of Israel. They have stated for many years that their ultimate goal is to wipe Israel off the map.
Why would it be logically inconsistent of me to claim they will always do that? I would consider it illogical that they wouldn't, based on their words and actions.

Yes, LR, I DO consider it a major step that the Arab League would censor Hazbollah in any way.

For you, or anyone who says, the war can only be won diplomatically off the battlefield, I ask "Show me how." Wearing flowers in your hair in San Francisco didn't work. How would you think the leaders of the terrorists groups could be reached in such a way that they would voluntarily cease all attacks and suicide bombings against Israel and agree to live side by side in peace?  

You're an intelligent man, LR. In which direction would you lean toward?


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77 posted 08-02-2006 12:24 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I think Israel is a bully-just like their bedfellows, America, and their little brother, Britain.

Snatching land by building walls, keeping the poor contained, and squashing the opposition by murdering scores of civilians.

This terrorism didn't come out of nowhere-it came through desperation to maintain communities that didn't want to comply with Israel's and the West's idea of 'how to live.'

This war is all about resources, and Isreal plan to cover the resources, just like Laputa, in Gullivers Travels.

"If you're not with us, you're against us" to quote the words of the biggest bully, G.W.Bush.

Building walls, and shooting children to sequester land and keep out the displaced is not democratic, it's totalitarian.

the suicide bombing is a tactic in war, just as the other side employs a front-line force with state of the art weaponry, Hamas and Hizbollah retaliate with what they have, which is loyalty.

Bush, and the coalition are not interested in fighting terror, they're interested in securing the Middle Eastern land resources, in my view.

Rhia, everything you're saying in your above post is bigoted, presumptuous and quite frankly, fuelling the fear-mongering

For now, I've had enough of looking at the extremism coming off Balladeer.

Well, kif kif, all I can say is that it's a good thing YOU don't resort to extremism. Who knows WHAT might come out!!!!
kif kif
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78 posted 08-02-2006 01:46 PM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

I'm not resorting to extremism, Balladeer, I'm describing the extremism already happening. You're the one that thinks genocide is a solution, not me.

I'm impressed though, your cut and pasting of certain sentences in my whole input must have taken some time. Thanks! It's good how it stays in context.
Alicat
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79 posted 08-02-2006 02:34 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

No different than how you took a sarcastic comment from me stemming from your (at the time) ignoring of history to bolster political views and turned it into my personal stance.  And I really don't think Balladeer was nor ever has advocated genocide.  If you take that in context you will see he was merely listing possible solutions.  Just because a solution is abhorrent doesn't negate it; it's just an option most want to avoid.  Not to mention it would be anti-Semitic, since Semitic doesn't mean solely Jew or Israeli.

Semitic refers to a Afroasiatic classification of peoples who share common physical traits, as well as a common linguistic root.  Take an Egyptian, a Palestinian, a Lebanese, a Saudi, and an Israeli.  Now dress them in identical clothes, line them up, and play 'Who's the Jew'.  You'd have a 20% chance of picking the right one due to similiar physical characteristics, and I really doubt you'd pick the Israeli for looking like an Israeli when they're all dressed identically.

And that makes me chuckle a bit when I hear Arabs, a general term, accused of anti-semitism.  By the very definition of the term, that means they are against themselves.  Anti-Israeli would be semantically correct, but when have those who have used an Israeli ambulance as a truck bomb ever fretted over semantics.
Local Rebel
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80 posted 08-02-2006 05:48 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Here's the problem Mike;

Katushka's can be set up to fire very quickly.  It's very easy to haul one to the top of a building, say, your building -- fire it... and leave.  By the time the site is identified as a 'strong hold' or 'launch site' Hizbullah is GONE!  But, you're still in the building because even though you've been warned to get out -- you have no way to go and no where to go -- because all of Lebanon is a target.  

Like the stranded victims left to face Katrina the Lebanese have even fewer resources to evacuate a town and less infrastructure -- and -- gee whiz -- now all the bridges are bombed out!  

But, let's just examine another scenario.  What if you're Hizbullah and you're fighting against an enemy that has F16's, Helicopters, Tanks, Guided Missiles, sophisticated recon drones -- and all you have is a 200 dollar Katushka and an AK47 --what do you do?  Especially if survival equals winning -- and if turning public opinion of the West against Israel is a BIG win?

You could round up fifty women and children -- put them in the basement of an apartment building -- not allow them to leave -- fire a Katushka from the top of that building and then sit back and wait.

In either scenario -- if an air strike is conducted from thousands of yards in the air where a pilot is forced to make a decision about what to bomb or not bomb without knowing what he's targeting Israel is acting with wanton disregard for innocent life for no military gain and taking a political hit in the process.  That's pure ignorance.

In the meantime Hizbullah is capable of hitting Israel with 100 missiles per day.  And they are.

So, if my choice is to be hit with 100 missiles per day anyway -- I choose not to take innocent lives, not to destroy the infrastructure that is vital to the demilitarization of Lebanon, and not to take the political hit with the moderate Arab leadership and the rest of the world.

I would, very simply -- STOP!  And call for Hizbullah to stop.  

Remember - they're firing 100 of those things at me either way.  If I stop -- and they don't -- THEN who takes the political hit?

Furthermore -- you will see the light on the road to Damascus my friend.  As I mentioned earlier -- Syria is the key to unlocking the future here.  The bridge that has to be taken out is the main Supply Bridge of Syria.  Materiel has to pass from Iran -- through Syria -- to Hizbullah.

Syria is a secular Sunni nation.  They don't care much for the Shiites in Iran or Hizbullah as mentioned before -- but as we've frozen them out in the cold they've had little other recourse than to belly up to the Ayatollah.  They would much rather be enjoying the inclusion and respect given to Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia.

We have to disrupt that alliance.  Give Syria a stake.  Give the Lebanese a stake.  Bomb them with butter -- get them building schools, hospitals, universities -- because right now they have a generation that hates Israel more than it loves its own children.  

When people are actively engaged in building things, building lives instead of taking them -- there isn't a lot of time for hate -- when bad actors appear -- we treat it as a police matter and a matter of diplomacy -- interweaving our economy with theirs to the point that it just doesn't seem practical to allow something like the Hizbullah militia to exist anymore.

As it stands right now -- this war has the potential to actually be LOST by Israel and a Shiite caliphate from Iran through Iraq and Syria to Lebanon can dominate the Middle East within a matter of months my friend.  And, if you think gas costs a lot now..... just wait.
Balladeer
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81 posted 08-02-2006 09:39 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Thanks for the comments, LR. I agree with much of what you say. There are still unanswered questions as I'm sure there will always be.

I would, very simply -- STOP!  And call for Hizbullah to stop.

Do you really think Haz would stop? If so, you are in one heck of a minority. Even Israel is aware enough to know that they won't. Just look at the past days. Israel agreed to stop air strikes for 48 hours as long as Hazbollah did not attack them during that time. It lasted barely over 4 hours before the Haz resumed attacks which canceled the air strike stoppage. Call for Hazbollah to stop? It would work about as much as calling for them not to begin...

Yes, of course, that is how the terrorists are orchestrating the destruction of their own civilians and using them and their deaths as propoganda tactics. Your suggestion then would be not to retaliate at all? Many of the rockets launchers and almost one third of the Hazbollah forces have been killed or captured. So there have been many times that the attack on firing positions has worked.  Can you come up with another solution that would render the same results?

I agree with your thoughts on Syria completely and  concur that they are indeed the key. Whether we are smart enough to treat them as such remains to be seen.

Your suggestion about building and flooding cities with projects and self-improvements is a valid one but I don't see it working in Lebanon. First of all, Hazbollah has already done it. They have taken millions from Iran and  endeared  themselves to the general populace enough to be elected to office. While doing so they have continued to fuel the fires of hatred against Israel in their rhetoric within the communities. Do you think that America or Israel going in there to compete with who can do the most for the Lebanese people would have much of a chance of success against the Iran-backed terrorists  who ARE Lebanese? They are not "bad actors" appearing on the scene. They are political office holders who control regions of the country....and their goal is the destruction of Israel. They are certainly not going allow Israel any chance to be  the "good guys", any more than they will allow us to be. Your ideas would be very sound for handling Lebanon AFTER Hazbollah is disbanded but, for as long as they are there, those same ideas would never have a chance to take root, I'm afraid.

Appreciate the input...
Local Rebel
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82 posted 08-02-2006 10:57 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

They are not "bad actors" appearing on the scene. They are political office holders who control regions of the country....



Precisely the leverage required to pry them away from Iran and pressure them into stopping.  If Israel stops the campaign (not the really badly stated 48 hour suspension against anything they said they were only targeting anyway -- that equals no suspension), goes home -- puts a mega-patrol on their northern border and says -- ok UN... we're waiting for the international peace-keeping forces -- Hizbullah may or may not stop -- but, they aren't stopping now anyway.

If they don't stop -- where does that leave them with the Lebanese they've spent 20 years buttering up?  

The only reason Hizbullah perpetrated these acts now is because of Iran's gambit for nuclear fuel refinement.  Prior to this -- they had backed away from being the terrorist organization that killed U.S. Marines (and what did the great Gipper do about that?)

quote:

In retaliation for the attacks, France launched an air strike in the Beqaa Valley against Iranian Revolutionary Guard positions. President Reagan assembled his national security team and planned to target the Sheik Abdullah barracks in Baalbek, Lebanon, which housed Iranian Revolutionary Guards believed to be training Hezbollah fighters. But Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger aborted the mission, reportedly because of his concerns that it would harm U.S. relations with other Arab nations.

Besides a few shellings, there was no serious retaliation for the Beirut bombing from the Americans. In December 1983, U.S. aircraft attacked Syrian targets in Lebanon, but this was in response to Syrian missile attacks on planes, not the barracks bombing.

The Marines were moved offshore where they could not be targeted. On February 7, 1984, the order was given for the Marines to begin withdrawal from Lebanon. This was completed on February 26; the rest of the MNF was withdrawn by April.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing




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83 posted 08-03-2006 01:39 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Reb, tell me you don't really want to go back to Reagan for "do nothing" tactics. That will just make me go back to Slick Willie and averything he didn't do concerning the first WTC bombing, the USS Cole, etc etc etc....better to leave that avenue unchartered.

If they don't stop -- where does that leave them with the Lebanese they've spent 20 years buttering up?

That leaves the Lebanese they have been buttering up cheering them on for not stopping, not being intimidated, not buckling under the evil presence of the devil countries Israel and the US. One doesn't have to be clairvoyant to see that, I'm afraid. Any actions against Israel are considered heroic by the rank and file Lebanese who cheer them in parades while burning US and Israel flags.

As much as I would love to, I can't see any other course of action workable other than the one being employed now...and I agree that it is far from perfect. If the Lebanese government would work with the U.N. to rid themselves of Hazbollah that would be ideal but I don't see them doing it and I don't see the U.N. doing much of anything.

Time will tell....
kif kif
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84 posted 08-03-2006 04:14 AM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

Alicat-"genocide" has no rightful place in any context...and Balladeer did say "sadly, I think a form of genocide is the only solution" , on page 3. Another thing...before you really fling mud, bringing up the word "anti-semitic" is not fair, but then again, that word is always used as soon as anybody dares to speak against Israel. Is it because I am black? Now we're being sarcastic...

Further, "not to mention genocide would be anti-semitic", yes, if we were talking about the 2nd World War, but we're not, we're talking about Israels attacks on Lebanon, and the fact that Balladeer deems it acceptable for Israel to commit genocide on the Lebanese people.

It reminds me of what happened to the Native American culture when the French arrived. Scalping became de riguer, as respect in war is to copy the most devastating tactics. Circular.  

I'm not complaining about what Balladeer did to my words-I'd like to see his argument condensed by the "opposition"...then we'll see who the extremist sympathiser is.

Balladeer, do you actually listen to World news? (no, not just American...) Israel's prime minister admits he believes Hizbollah to be integrated amongst the people of Lebanon. That's why the bridges are bombed-to prevent anybody from fleeing, and to stop any aid that's been sent for the people. Israel is intent destroying the infrastructure of Lebanon, therefore, is intent on destroying Lebanon.

ps, the U.N is quite powerless compared to America. It's America that's supporting Israels attacks. If Rice demanded a cease-fire, then maybe we'd get somewhere.



[This message has been edited by kif kif (08-03-2006 04:59 AM).]

Local Rebel
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85 posted 08-03-2006 05:53 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Three words;

Khadafi, Khadafi, Khadafi
Balladeer
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86 posted 08-03-2006 07:40 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

kif kif, you are good at taking facts and attaching your own conclusions to them. Yes, I actually listen to world news (when there are no re-runs of All in the Family on). You actually think there is any doubt that Hazbollah is integrated with the Lebanese people? That is certainly no news flash or secret to anyone. Bridges are bombed for the same reason the airport runways were and the port blockaded and the roads into Syria mangled - to prevent military aid and supplies from coming in to the terrorists.

the U.N is quite powerless compared to America

How can that be? Even the Iraqi terrorists are not powerless against America. You  telling me a conglomeration of almost every country on Earth is no match to America. We appreciate the compliment but the U.N. is powerless only because they choose to be, which is their standard mode of existence.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told The Associated Press on Wednesday that his country would stop its offensive only after a robust international peacekeeping force was in place in southern Lebanon to protect Israel from border raids and rocket attack. ...another request which would force the U.N. to actually DO something.

You may continue to try to get as much mileage out of "genocide" as you wish. Everyone here knows what I meant by it and you are the only one to try to twist it into something to fit your own needs. So be it.

If Rice demanded a cease-fire, then maybe we'd get somewhere.

Well, if you are a member of Hazbollah, then you would be correct since they are the ones who would benefit.


Reb, you really need to do something for that cough!  
kif kif
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87 posted 08-03-2006 07:56 AM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

By saying that, Balladeer, you mean that. There is no other way to take it.

If Rice demanded a cease-fire, it's not just Hizbollah that would benefit, the people of Lebanon and the people in Lebanon would benefit, along with Israel...saving at least one of their faces.

As for America being powerful...in this Capitalist state, it was all about America. Oil could only be bought with dollars...now it's all changing, with euros being exchanged as the rate ascends. As for the yen...it seems the world may be catching up, quick, employ a war!
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88 posted 08-03-2006 08:10 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Euros and sterling can certainly buy dollars and yen. The adminstration is all scared of China? Haven't heard that one before. Maybe because China has so many dollars and yen??

Germany, France, Italy, China, Russia, India and a few dozen other countries thrown in for good measure would not like to know they are so powerless against the U.S. of A. Why even have a UN then if America is the only actual powerhouse? Somehow I don't think they would agree with you, kif kif.

I'd love to continue but it's time to go chase those elusive dollars and yen, keeping an eye out for Chinese trying to take them from me. Have a good day...
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89 posted 08-03-2006 08:13 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Aha...I see you edited your comment to eliminate the parts I referred to. Serves me right for not copying and pasting.

I'm a slow learner

Again, have a good day.
kif kif
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90 posted 08-03-2006 08:52 AM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

There's nothing wrong with tidying up seconds after. This is a poetry site, dedicated to clarity, after all. If I began with history again, I might confuse you...again. What I meant was that OIL could only be bought with dollars, now it's all changed/changing, like I said.

You certainly are.
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91 posted 08-03-2006 03:50 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ok, now that you have reduced yourself to inserting childish insults it appears we have come to the end of the road. See ya
Mistletoe Angel
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92 posted 08-03-2006 04:45 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

This thread has just become too heartaching to read, I believe.

I absolutely agree with Bush that we need to work toward achieving a "sustainable peace" in the region, not some sort of mere sloganeering peace but a dialogue of the whole issue at play here so we can seek a greater understanding of the nature of this conflict, and not have to continuously see that silent volcano from under the ocean burst again every generation.

However, I also believe that we just aren't ever going to get diplomats from these countries to even begin thinking of coming together until we call for a ceasefire of sorts. I absolutely understand there are radical militias in Hezbollah who would try and exploit events such as that, but all the same in my heart a ceasefire helps everyone far more than hurts, as it is exactly continuing violence and killing from both sides that will ultimately build and appease hatred and inevitable future terror, as well as further add to the complexity of the conflict, far more than any diplomatic act of ceasefire ever would.

Solving this conflict in whole will take generations to resolve, but I feel the very first step should be quite simple and there's just many who make it seem far more complicated than it really is.

I've chosen to stay quiet in this thread because I'm saddened to see verbal barbs being exchanged about as much or even more than ideas on how to work together to stop the violence. I believe both Local Rebel and Balladeer, kif kif and Denise, and others all are making wonderful points in this thread; where I believe LR and kif kif make genuine points that it's the violence that will only deepen ad prolong this historic conflict, and Balladeer and Denise make genuine points that Hezbollah has historically been an aggressor and there are militias who will try exploiting any diplomatic measure. Both sides here are right to some degree.

I can understand the frustration that is evident from both debating sides in this thread, I really can, but I am concerned as well from some exchanging of barbs that this is distracting this discussion somewhat in seeking common ground for an end to this tragic, humanitarian conflict.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

kif kif
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93 posted 08-04-2006 03:45 AM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

I apologise for my verbal retaliation against Balladeer's "you come across as a terrorist sympathiser", I know I'm a sucker for taking the bait. This conversation's only refecting what's going on with the whole conflict, in my opinion.

Circular, like I've said. I have to say though, in my eyes, Balladeer is the terrorist sympathiser by advocating "a form of genocide."

I really can't comprehend that statement. Again, I apologise if I'm too passionate, but I love people, and I don't want to see whole cultures wiped out.

Life has always been scary, but that doesn't mean that we destroy all the scary things, because then we'd have no life, just emptiness.
rhia_5779
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94 posted 08-04-2006 06:09 AM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

how am i biased? if you dont want an entire culture to be wiped out, why are you against israel fighting  back.  they will disappear off the map if they dont fight, they fight and protect their own being hit by rockets by the day. if they disappear off the map im sure the hezbollah will rejoice.

if hezbollah successfully manages to bomb constistantly tel aviv and jeruslem, we will see israel come crashing down.

my best friend was in tel aviv, and is currently in netanya\outskirts of netanya(she told me and i forgot) she has been giving me reliable reports of whats going on. if i am biased, then only cause i dont want to see israel come crashing down, or anything happen to by best friend.
kif kif
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95 posted 08-04-2006 12:57 PM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

I said you were biased because you said "If Israel put down their guns, there would be no Israel." That's a fear-mongering sound-byte, in my opinion.

I agree that the people of Israel have every right to live in peace, but their government has to be fair to it's neighbours before that's going to happen. Somebody's got to do the right thing first, instead of this tit for tat, on-going retaliation.
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96 posted 08-04-2006 01:12 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

kif kif, Balladeer is not, nor ever will be, a terrorist sympathizer. I question and disagree with him sharply on foreign policy ideology, but he believes in a peaceful end result for this world just as I do, and it's just in how we go about achieving that end result where our views differ. Believe me, I have participated in discussions in this forum for some time now, and I believe Balladeer to be a warm-hearted individual who truly means well, with a genuine sense of justice and sympathy for others like yourself.

None of us here are terrorist sympathizers, none of us want entire cultures wiped out. I have observed every testy exchange here closely, and that moment on Page 3 where you insist that he favors a genocide solution of sorts because it is the only option, he himself wasn't calling for that and was merely suggesting the cynical notion that this conflict is never going to be resolved in the near future, and like he said earlier in this thread in comment #11, he believes one of two conclusions is inevitable; either the terror organizations in the region are eradicated to ensure no further radical militia threats on ways of life, or that the militias succeed in wiping out Israel. I don't really agree with Balladeer there at all, but he shares a point that millions share nonetheless, and we have to recognize that argument persists.

I believe we all can say controversial things every now and then here, which could be misunderstood by others and generated heated discussion such as this. I hold strong convictions myself and sometimes my words feel heavy on others ears, and there are some comments you've made yourself that I don't agree with but recognize you hold strong convictions and don't want to generate an ego conflict here.

You can believe, and insist as you wish that Balladeer is a terrorist sympathizer in your eyes, but I would most strongly and absolutely disagree with you on that, as I believe a vast majority who have talked to and understand Balladeer to some extent would disagree with that as well.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Balladeer
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97 posted 08-04-2006 06:55 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I thank you, Noah.
Mistletoe Angel
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98 posted 08-04-2006 09:45 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



Love,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

kif kif
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since 06-01-2006
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99 posted 08-05-2006 11:20 AM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

O K. Yet, put the boot on the other foot. If it was a cleric saying what Balladeer was saying...I thought that was the point of the discussion, to argue our opinions, breaking down the content to find some truth. Words are deeds, acting immediately.

I'd suggest looking a little closer to home when talking about 'convictions.'

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