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Passions in Poetry

Spiritual Forum

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Susan Caldwell
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since 12-27-2002
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Florida


0 posted 05-24-2006 10:30 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell


Anyone besides me notice that the spiritual forum hasn't had a post in a month?  

Guess there isn't much of a need anymore...



"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

[This message has been edited by Susan Caldwell (05-24-2006 11:19 AM).]

Midnitesun
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Gaia


1 posted 05-24-2006 11:04 AM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

lol, loved the tongue-in-cheek comment (if I am reading you correctly)
That forum never had a really big following. I always chocked it up to the fact many seem to equate 'Spiritual' with 'Christian' or organized religion in general. I don't know, but I have only been in there a handful of times myself.
And it seems the corner pub often serves the same purpose anyway. I'm not trying to be a pain-in-the, but that's how I see it.
I just want to write and read, without layers of restrictions and hurdles. Sometimes I think it would be nice to just throw it all into a sieve and let someone else put it in the right...er, make that correct, bowl. Then again, I don't want someone else attempting to decide for me, what is right or wrong, what is foul or fair.

hope this makes sense, since I am still kicking a migraine outta my head
Mysteria
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since 03-07-2001
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2 posted 05-24-2006 01:18 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Well I notice one of the most loved "Spiritual" writers just today posted in our Open Forum.  I do believe that is where the most traffic is and I suppose perhaps he felt it was most needed in there?   It was sure good reading Lighthouse Bob today, and Susan, I enjoy your humor always!

Huge difference between spirituality and religion, but then that would end up in a whole other forum wouldn't it?
Susan Caldwell
Member Rara Avis
since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


3 posted 05-24-2006 01:47 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Kacy,   you read me correctly.

I feel an acute loss at the way the Open forums have become so pretty with it's rose colored glasses...but of course that is just my opinion and I am nothing but non-believer.





"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~
Susan Caldwell
Member Rara Avis
since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


4 posted 05-24-2006 01:53 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Sharon,

Nothing against Bob (I love the name Bob)...but most needed?  Where all the traffic is?  *sigh*

So is it just about the attention/responses?

Either way, for me, it's a time of mourning and letting go..

As I feel the protection of ones right seems a bit skewed.  Being agnostic, I should be use to it, after all my fellow government employees have prayers before a command funtion...no one asks how I feel about that.

I'm done whining.

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

Midnitesun
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5 posted 05-24-2006 01:55 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Thought so.
I like pretty too, sometimes, and sometimes I've been accused of writing soft floaty pretty things
(that melt icicles LOL...some else's words to me)
but I also write some grit and grime, and that is how life is to me, a bit of everything rolled into one.
Some days I feel clean and pretty, some days I prefer to stink it up a bit.

My take as well, Susan. It seems the squeekies rule. There are times when I just shake my head and wonder, is there any room for the likes of a fully integrated completely mature poet anywhere in Open?
Balladeer
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6 posted 05-24-2006 02:13 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

You have no idea, Susan, how close to my heart this topic is (the other mods do!)

As for your other point, I'm lost. The thread seems to be about the shortage of posts in Spiritual and yet you claim that, by being an agnostic, your rights are skewed? Help me out there???
Susan Caldwell
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since 12-27-2002
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Florida


7 posted 05-24-2006 02:28 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Sorry, I often don't make sense.  



I suppose in a very off handed way I am saying that open has become a more spiritual forum than spiritual itself.  Although, I agree that spiritual doesn't necessarily mean religious, most times that is exactly what it becomes about.  Yet, there seems to be a real lack of the other side of things.  

I don't think I am explaining well.

It's almost as if Open is now the "Bible Belt" of pip.  And there just isn't a place for those of us that don't want to partake of that sort of venue.  

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

Balladeer
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8 posted 05-24-2006 02:40 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

aha....understood. Thank you
Ron
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9 posted 05-24-2006 03:28 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
And there just isn't a place for those of us that don't want to partake of that sort of venue.  

Sure there is, Susan. It's up to you, of course, if you don't want to use it.
Susan Caldwell
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since 12-27-2002
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Florida


10 posted 05-24-2006 03:49 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Where is that Ron?

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

Midnitesun
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Gaia


11 posted 05-24-2006 03:52 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

So, Ron, is OPEN now to be essentially a squeeky clean religious oriented forum? That's what Susan is talking about, as far as I can tell. I sure did like it better a couple of years back when tolerance seemed to be the mainstay. I don't feel that is the case any longer, and find the number of posts and poets being pulled to be appalling. It's almost gotten to the point where if you don't gush with flowers, hugs and chocolate kisses, you get pushed into an adult forum or ignored.
Perhaps it should be retitled
CLOSED

[This message has been edited by Midnitesun (05-24-2006 05:25 PM).]

Sunshine
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Listening to every heart


12 posted 05-24-2006 07:21 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

From Mysteria:  
quote:
and I suppose perhaps he felt it was most needed in there?

Perhaps Mysteria hit the ever elusive nail on the head.  We cannot pigeon-hole people; and several of us want to put our own "words" where they may gain the "most light".

Open is just that...Open.  Religion is religion; and spirituality is just that.  

I am, always have been, most comfortable to post mostly anything in Open, given its guidelines.  I don't believe that just because a forum is slow for awhile [for those who can, check Sanctuary] that it means there is little to no interest.

We don't have in operation a "clicker" of reads for each thread; but I'll bet a dime to a donut that there are a LOT of readers in Spiritual...if nothing other than to take away a good thought for the day.

Dismiss the forum?  Not me.  Not when it may give me impetus to get through my day, even if I feel unworthy to leave a note behind, even in saying "thank you."

In many ways, it is the unknown of what our readers take away, that should be foremost in our thoughts...

and as people keep rolling in to Passions...the Spiritual forum, and just in knowing that it is there, may have brought a lot of our members to us.
Susan Caldwell
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since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


13 posted 05-24-2006 08:08 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Karilea,

I understand what you are saying and let me say for myself, it is not about anything I post getting the most light...it's about what I read.  What I used to read and enjoy in open, just isn't there anymore and I think that is a direct result of a change in what is being allowed to be posted/stay in open.

But let me say also, that this was so not my intention when I started this thread and it certainly seems to be going somewhere it probably shouldn't.

And Ron? I think you are referring to Insights?  Yes, I suppose what you say it true.  I am just caught up in what feels like a slow death in open.  

*shrug*  I'll get over.

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

Balladeer
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14 posted 05-24-2006 11:19 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Susan, it has been pointed out recently that anything that depends on sexual connotations, for example, has no place in Open. Naughty, even harmless naughty, does rely on that, along with tittilating, risque, etc. When you eliminate that type of humor or subject matter from a forum you are left with what you see. Open is as Ron wants it and  that's how it will remain. Yes, it was different before but that was then and this is now and life goes on.
Susan Caldwell
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since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


15 posted 05-25-2006 08:49 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Yes, Michael, I get that and I am sorry I did the unthinkable and actually voiced that it makes me sad that the forum is so radically different and the fact that a huge amount of really good poets have disappeared.

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

Balladeer
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16 posted 05-25-2006 12:36 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Don't think that for a second, Susan. You did nothing wrong. You made an observation - which has been observed by others as well - and you voiced an opinion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I applaud your honesty and your caring enough to express yourself.
Susan Caldwell
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since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


17 posted 05-25-2006 01:38 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

thanks.

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

Mysteria
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18 posted 05-25-2006 02:12 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Well Susan, one good thing is they come, they go, but they always come back here.  Seems Passions In Poetry goes through phases, and this is just another I imagine.  As someone smart said once, "This too shall pass."
Ron
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19 posted 05-25-2006 02:26 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
So, Ron, is OPEN now to be essentially a squeeky clean religious oriented forum?

Kacy, there's nothing inherently religious (or even spiritual, Susan) about visiting Disneyland. It's good, clean fun for people who don't want to spend all their money in bars or all their time chasing yet another titillation. I don't think there's necessarily anything religious about going to a Little League ball game in the afternoon, either, or watching a sunset alone save for the buzz of dragonflies and the chortle of mourning doves wandering randomly through the yard. You don't have to pray before going to the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago or the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. No one is going to force you into a confessional for spending an hour or two reading Robert Frost to ailing strangers at a local hospital and I doubt you have to be baptized before playing underhand catch with a favorite grandchild. Cleanliness may, indeed, be next to godliness, but that hardly makes them the same thing. Confusing decorum with devotion only suggests a poor understanding of both.

Do I want to spend every day at Disneyland or the museum? Nope. But I won't let Hustler and Hooters take those options away from me, either, nor do I intend to spend all my time with people who only know how to think with the smaller parts of their anatomy. I need more than that in my life and, frankly, I believe there are others who feel the same way. Those who have no room in their lives for Disney, Little League, or Robert Frost are free to find other venues. I won't miss them.

BTW, Kacy, I think you'll find that in the Alley sarcasm and farce always flow in many directions and rarely go anywhere useful. Yes, things used to be different a couple years back, but that was less a matter of tolerance and more one of trust. I could trust the majority of people back then to set their own boundaries and, honestly, I was only rarely disappointed. Most of them even knew how to spell squeaky. While many of those who helped found the forums are still here, they no longer represent a majority, and we are left with far too many who would rather push the boundaries of taste than push themselves to be better writers.

quote:
And Ron? I think you are referring to Insights? Yes, I suppose what you say it true. I am just caught up in what feels like a slow death in open.

Susan, if Open no longer offers what you need or want you should certainly try to find something else that does. It won't be without effort, of course, whether you decide to try another forum here or another web site elsewhere, but then very little of real value ever comes without effort. No forum, and indeed no web site, is going to be for everyone, nor do I think that should even be a goal.

Open Poetry, and our other forums that eschew sex and swearing, are for one audience. Mature Content is for another. They need not be exclusionary, of course, and I suspect many of us will choose to enjoy both, but ultimately, the choice of venue has to be made by the individual.

That's what it all comes down to, Susan. Choice. You have to make a choice so that others can make a choice.


serenity blaze
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20 posted 05-25-2006 03:37 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

That reminds me of a story.

We managed a tight budget trip to Disneyworld when my kids were five and six.

Magic time! YAY!!!

We chose the Magic Kingdom to explore on our first day--and it just so happened to be Gay & Lesbian Day.

(I was not offended. Others were.)

As I watched a lovely androgynous young man wearing a pink scarfed princess hat ride the carousel, he (she? shrug) saw me watching and yelled, "I bet ya never saw this at home!"

I yelled back, "I am from New Orleans!"

As the ride slowed to a stop, he/she proceeded to dismnount the carousel horse to hug me, screaming, "gleeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"

Yep.

That's where it all started, folks.



Another true serenity story--and does this stuff just happen to me?  

*peace and winks*

Midnitesun
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21 posted 05-25-2006 06:34 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

LOL, squeeky vs squeaky...well, it was a severe migraine attack day, so I'm not too surprised I didn't get every word right. LOL. And I do know the difference between devotion and decorum. That comment was uncalled for, and not a fair assesssment on your part. MHO
I simply liked the way things were before, when it seemed we had a lot more variety in Open, a lot more range of language and topics that were apparently acceptable to the majority of the readers, considering the numbers recorded by the site meter.
Open just doesn't feel as OPEN as it used to, and I find that a very sad change at Pips.
Essorant
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22 posted 05-25-2006 10:04 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Do you think it may be better to make the Open forums rated "PG"?    
nakdthoughts
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Between the Lines


23 posted 05-26-2006 06:56 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

Not being a moderator, I don't get to know which poems are pulled, moved or deleted
(unless my own).

But I notice every year there is a slow down in several forums due to people  having other activities in their lives especially during holidays and summers.

I really don't notice that much of a difference in Open other than  several newcomers since PIP has been opened again to new poets.

Maybe it is because I am not on here as much although I do check in every morning and every evening for a bit.

There is a forum for practically every kind of expression...so I am not quite sure what the problem is to some. And if some "really good poets" are no longer posting it may due to personal reasons. As someone already said...they come and go but  most return when they have the time to read and comment or to post.

And for those  who may not seem to be  the best at writing...well many of us
(including myself) had to start somewhere before  reaching the levels of writing where we are today.

just my opinion with no offense meant to anyone

Maureen
Stephanos
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24 posted 05-28-2006 04:49 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
Anyone besides me notice that the spiritual forum hasn't had a post in a month?  Guess there isn't much of a need anymore...


and ...

quote:
That forum never had a really big following. I always chocked it up to the fact many seem to equate 'Spiritual' with 'Christian' or organized religion in general. I don't know, but I have only been in there a handful of times myself.


I feel the need to share this.  I too have chosen to post mostly in other forums besides "Spiritual", even though I am a Christian.  Though I have nothing against the forum, and some of the frequenters are the kindest of people, I have personally felt something was lacking there much of the time.  I guess I can relate to what you are saying about the cotton-candy feel of "spirituality" there.  (This of course is a reckless generalization and does not begin to describe all posts or posters in "Spiritual").  The easiest way to explain myself is with a comparison ... When I would read the bibilical poetry (Psalms) I would get a much different feeling.  The high points were high without denying the low points in life.  The low points were often described in agonizing detail.  This is refreshing to read when life doesn't seem so tidy as a lone and sterile doctrine ... even if that doctrine is ultimately true.  (Please understand that I'm only sharing my feelings, not a personal attack against individual poets on Spiritual ... I myself have posted on Spiritual.  And for those who stay there to make it a better place, you probably should be commended more than me and my "desertion" approach).      


I think another reason for my choice to venture elsewhere is because I like to see the questions and answers of faith in an interactive role ... where problems and different views are juxtapositioned with Christianity.  If this does not happen to some degree, the orthodox answers become stale little formulas, without the health of open air ... or like crafted wood without the sandpaper of gritty experience to beautify it.  Just because I'm a Christian doesn't mean I've ceased to be an Earthling.  And diaologue with those from different perspectives helps one's symapthy and vocabulary.  It helps increase communication and decrease temptations of arrogance.  Arrogance does not come from holding one's own beliefs to be true (doctrinal exclusivity), but from holding others who believe different things at arm's length (personal exclusivity).  


What "Spiritual" has to offer is not bad, it just needs more in my opinion.  And I found it easier to express that "more" in other forums ... particularly philosophy, where views are not granted easily by anyone.       Maybe when you notice that "Open" has more and more "spiritual" posts, it is an attempt at expanding the very nature of Spiritual poetry on the forums.  Something to think about anyway.  I don't think that goes against the philosophy of "openness".


Negatively, the exclusion of "off-color" subject matter is appropriate, regardless of what your view is ... since Christians are not the only ones who find this kind of thing offensive.  But whatever your view is on that, it is a separate issue from whether "Christian" or "Spiritual" posts actually violate anyone's "rights".        


Stephen.
 
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